[D&D 3.5] Archery assistance.

[Raganui]

Now, before I get swamped with em, I do know about the Swift Hunter builds. However, GM is not especially experienced at GMing, so I'm trying to not do too many crazy things.

So, I'm going to be focusing on Ranger as my base class and I wish for some advice on the following.

First, where can I find this Mystic Ranger variant I've heard about and a bit more on what it is?

Second, wish to build him more volley worthy (less move, more thunking arrows into enemies at a range. Designed off a pure elf ranger I made once that shot an ogre out of a tree... don't ask why it was in a tree to begin with, I don't know), but when I tried to look that up, it seemed to be a crazy 'take a level of this, then a level of this, then a level of this, and you HAVE to take these feats and use weapons with these enchants' which made me @_@. So, what feats would you advise

Third, anything else you may wish to contribute.

My rolls for stats are 16, 16, 15, 14, 14, 10

Thank you for your time.

[Palanan]

The mystic ranger is from Dragon #336, p. 105. It loses the animal companion and delays the favored enemy progression in exchange for improved spellcasting, beginning at first level.
.

[Bakkan]

Knowledge Devotion (Complete Champion) is IMO one of the bast ways to get more damage with archery (which is the style's primary weakness). You'll suffer as a ranger form not having access to all the relevant Knowledge skills as class skills, but the feat grants you one Knowledge as a class skill, and depending on your backstory/build, the Education feat (FRCS? Not sure) gives you all Knowledge skills as class skills. Knowledge devotion is in addition very efficient if your campaign is focused around one or two types of enemies and you don't have to spend so many skill points in the Knowledges.

Travel Devotion (Complete Champion) will allow you to be mobile and to thunk volleys of arrows into your enemies. Only 1/day, unless you take a Cleric dip, in which case you can go Cloistered Cleric to get all Knowledges as class skills and trade the Travel domain for the Travel Devotion feat.

[Palanan]

Also, if you have access to the Forgotten Realms supplements, Champions of Ruin has a spell called Spellslayer Arrow, which gives bonus damage for each spell effect active on your target.

It's a second-level ranger spell, which the mystic ranger would be able to cast beginning at 4th level. Combined with Hunter's Mercy, it could be a good ambush spell.

[Raganui]

Well thank you both. Unfortunately, it seems I do not have a copy of Dragon 336 (or can find one for acquirement), so while it sounds like it would be useful, it seems I may have to pass that up. Going to poke my Complete Champion to see what it has to say.

Figure I'll probably have a hidden weapon from C. Scoundrel somewhere for if the enemy decides they don't like arrows being put into them.

[Ryulin18]

{Scrubbed}

[Palanan]

If you're trying to be a good person, it's not so hard (http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B000VTPB7M/ref=sr_1_1_olp?ie=UTF8&qid=1333663780&sr=8-1&condition=used).

:smalltongue:

[Raganui]

That's very helpful.

Also, after some poking, I found something called the Archery Handbook (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=642.0) which sounded like it may be useful to look over.

[Gavinfoxx]

Doesn't Paizo offer purchaseable pdf's of their old Dragon Magazines somewhere on their website??

Does anyone know where?

[Raganui]

Oh, further question...

Are there any good PrCs for archery or are those of us who want to use a bow left high and dry on this too due to Wizards seeming hatred of it.

[Toy Killer]

Unless your an elf (In which you plan on playing) you are pretty hosed when it comes to prestige classes. there are a couple in Complete Warrior and I think one in Races of the wild, but I could be mistaken.

[Raganui]

You're talking about Arcane Archer eh? Kinda need mage levels though which makes me :smallfrown:

[tyckspoon]

There's a couple hanging around in 3.0 material; Deepwoods Sniper is alright (gives improved critical characteristics on arrows, reduces concealment miss chances) and the 3.0 version of Order of the Bow Initiate is decent (unfortunately this has an official 3.5 version, which is a terrible trap.) Peerless Archer is mostly notable for offering Power Shot as a class feature. Needs a little more conversion than the others to work properly in 3.5, because it has a class feature that interacts with specific terminology of the 3.0 version of cover and concealment.

If you want strictly 3.5-era published stuff? No, there's not anything noteworthy. There *are* prestige classes that will let you shoot around half a mile, but they're only of any use if you're completely ignoring the Spot/encounter distance rules.

Edit: If you're using an exotic bow, it might be worth taking a couple levels in Exotic Weapon Master for the ranged disarm and not-provoking-with-ranged-attacks abilities, but that's about it.

[Yuukale]

never forget Justice of Weald and Woe from Champions of ruin. spellcasting on its own, bonus feats, no aoo from firing melee range, some sneak attack. Extra bacon?

[Raganui]

So, I think I'm going to start this off with Education, get Knowledge Devotion at 3rd level. ASAP get the relic bow from MIC. Sure, I can't use it's super special thing, but the adjusting str thing is really cool.

[tyckspoon]

never forget Justice of Weald and Woe from Champions of ruin. spellcasting on its own, bonus feats, no aoo from firing melee range, some sneak attack. Extra bacon?

Oh, yeah, this is non-terrible. I'm not sure it's better for Archery specifically than just continuing Ranger (especially if you have Spell Compendium for better spell choices) but it's a worthwhile option.

[Raganui]

I don't think I have Champions of Ruin D:
But I do have Spell Compendium so that's okay.

[gorfnab]

Mystic Ranger combos very nicely with the feat Sword of the Arcane Order from Champions of Valor.

[Randomguy]

You could use your animal companion as a mount. Mounted archery tends to be very effective.

If you want to prestige, there's the wild plains outrider PrC. It's only 3 levels long, and it lets you full attack after your mount moves.

Grab a force bow or something similar as soon as you can: Arrows can be blocked by wind (and wind wall), but force arrows can't.

[tiercel]

One of the biggest single factors for an archer build is how much you can customize your arrow stack. Most characters who hit things with weapons have only one or two primary weapons they can tweak, whereas you can reach into your golf bag for whatever you really need.

Perhaps the most obvious is to buy/craft/commission a whole bunch of arrows with the bane properties. With a reasonable selection of common foe types (or more to the point, common BBEG types), for any crucial combat you can be spending arrows that cost as +2 arrows but hit as +3 arrows that also do an additional 2d6 damage.

(If you are getting a number of +1 ___bane arrows, it makes sense to choose their material sensibly, e.g., if you are going to buy/make +1 construct bane arrows it's probably worth springing for the cost to make them adamantine arrowheads.)

The extreme version of this is the slaying arrow, but it's quite a bit more expensive and chancy. (If it doesn't work, you've just blown a fair bit of gold for a not-special arrow hit, and if it DOES work, your DM will likely be less than pleased that his Mega-Boss got pegged by a garbage saving throw roll -- not that that couldn't happen against Save-or-Die spells, of course.)

Then of course you could put the spell storing property on arrows (but check with your DM first about this one).

Having some +1 merciful arrows is useful for when you want to bring 'em down alive.

If nothing else, make sure to plan for major DR flavors (keeping in mind some monsters have DR/silver and magic, etc).

These are just the Core options. Shop around and customize your arrow selection, then make sure you have a quiver of Ehlonna / efficient quiver so what you need is at your fingertips, and the ever popular handy haversack if your DM won't let you cram pre-packed quivers into your magical quiver.

[Gavinfoxx]

Or you could, you know. Get Raptor Arrows...

[Golden Ladybug]

Check out the Pious Templar from Complete Divine. It has full BAB, good Fort and Will, Bonus Feats, Mettle, Weapon Specialisation without Fighter Levels, Spellcasting from the Cleric List, Some DR and a Smite Attack (sadly, can only be used in Melee).

For best results, worshipping Ehlonna lets you get in with WF: Longbow and gives WS: Longbow, and turns the otherwise garbage feat True Believer into the best type of Raptor Arrows (MiC) around. The Everything Bane, unbreakable, returning type.

Otherwise, Cragtop Archer is a good one. Lowers Spot Penalties, grants some useful trick shots, extra damage when shooting from above your target and DR 5/Adamantine a couple of times each day.

[Averis Vol]

you could go into races of the wild and A&Eg and pick up some specialty arrows, have some for every situation.

[tyckspoon]

Otherwise, Cragtop Archer is a good one. Lowers Spot Penalties, grants some useful trick shots, extra damage when shooting from above your target and DR 5/Adamantine a couple of times each day.

It's really not. It might be better than continuing in Fighter or Barbarian perhaps (what isn't? They don't have much to offer you after you've got your rage/Ranged Weapon Mastery), but off a Ranger entry? 5 levels of Ranger spellcasting advancement is much more useful than anything you'll get from Cragtop.

[Vizzerdrix]

With Rapid Shot, a Splitting bow and the Arrowsplit spell you can Volley for 4+1d4 Arrows (4+2D4 depending on if Arrowsplit applies before or after Splitting), not including any extra attacks from a high BAB. That should come on line by 6th level if you use Mystic Ranger. At that point you're gonna have to worry about DR, so you may want to look into Knowledge Devotion feat to help with that.

/$0.02

[Golden Ladybug]

It's really not. It might be better than continuing in Fighter or Barbarian perhaps (what isn't? They don't have much to offer you after you've got your rage/Ranged Weapon Mastery), but off a Ranger entry? 5 levels of Ranger spellcasting advancement is much more useful than anything you'll get from Cragtop.

Fair enough. Still, it has some nice things to offer for particular types of Archery, and the second level grants some extra damage that can be achieved quite easily, along with a buff to climbing (incredibly minor, but stops you from getting SA'd, for what its worth :smallfrown:) and Farsight. Horizon Shot and Arcing Shot are very powerful for long range archery. Hitting a target 1500ft away is pretty cool. A Binder dip could even get you the ability to see what you're shooting at.

However, like you said, probably not as good as getting higher level ranger spells.

[Vizzerdrix]

Mystic Ranger will get it's high level spells around level 10 or 12, so their is room for prcs.

[killem2]

Unless I am mistaken, isn't the big issue with ranged, the fear of wind wall spells?

I actually like the idea of ranged damage from archers and such so the dm would be the best to ask what kind of setting he has in mind.

With that said, I say, back to basics! Human ranger (extra feat), stay ranger of course, make sure you have a lot of strength.

I would also suggest trying to find the arms and equipment guide from a company called Bastion Press, they have a lot of new stuff to choose from, I can't recall if they have newer comp bows.

Of course the route of magic items and so one.

It really depends on your DM. With me, I don't run a lot of silly things to nerf ranged combat, so I actually have two rangers, and a couple other classes in our group who like ranged combat.

[tyckspoon]

Unless I am mistaken, isn't the big issue with ranged, the fear of wind wall spells?


Mostly in the context of PvP/arena-type fights, where you can be pretty certain of running into opponents who have both the capacity and a reason to have it around. It's not really a big deal for most adventuring, because the huge majority of your opponents will have no means of using a Wind Wall against you; I wouldn't spend resources on countering it specifically. If some other benefit you're getting also happens to let you pierce a Wind Wall, that's fine.

[Cieyrin]

Also, after some poking, I found something called the Archery Handbook (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=642.0) which sounded like it may be useful to look over.

I'd suggest using the Minmaxboards version (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=2892.0), which is the new site for Brilliant Gameologists, since the old boards (like you linked) got overrun by bots and viruses. Same info, perhaps somewhat updated, if Eldariel got back to it, that is.

[Zombimode]

You could use your animal companion as a mount. Mounted archery tends to be very effective.

If you want to prestige, there's the wild plains outrider PrC. It's only 3 levels long, and it lets you full attack after your mount moves.

It worth noting that while Wild Plains Outrider is a nice PRC and the artwork is actualy showing a mounted archer, the Wild Plain Offensive ability only works with melee weapons.

[Eldariel]

I'd suggest using the Minmaxboards version (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=2892.0), which is the new site for Brilliant Gameologists, since the old boards (like you linked) got overrun by bots and viruses. Same info, perhaps somewhat updated, if Eldariel got back to it, that is.

Yeah, as soon as I can be arsed. I need to finish the Crossbow section with the expanded materials and um, then actually write the type-specific sections but sigh. Sad part is, many kind parties have offered to help me but I have no idea how to make use of peoples' help efficiently in a matter like this.

[tyckspoon]

It worth noting that while Wild Plains Outrider is a nice PRC and the artwork is actualy showing a mounted archer, the Wild Plain Offensive ability only works with melee weapons.

That's because you can already make ranged full attacks while mounted, it's just at a hit penalty (-4 on a single-moving mount, -8 on a double, halved with Mounted Archery feat.) There's probably a PrC/feat/magic item somewhere that removes the rest of that penalty.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Eldariel
I need to finish the Crossbow section with the expanded materials and um, then actually write the type-specific sections but sigh.

For me, the Archery Handbook has probably been the single most useful handbook out there. It's my first and best resource for ranged advice. I'd like to contribute to the expansion, but don't really have that degree of expertise. I'll just scatter flower petals in your path.

:smalltongue:

[Cieyrin]

That's because you can already make ranged full attacks while mounted, it's just at a hit penalty (-4 on a single-moving mount, -8 on a double, halved with Mounted Archery feat.) There's probably a PrC/feat/magic item somewhere that removes the rest of that penalty.

I believe the same set of articles that had Wild Cohort also may have had support for that sort of thing.

[Eldariel]

That's because you can already make ranged full attacks while mounted, it's just at a hit penalty (-4 on a single-moving mount, -8 on a double, halved with Mounted Archery feat.) There's probably a PrC/feat/magic item somewhere that removes the rest of that penalty.

Improved Mounted Archery, Complete Warrior.