Has anyone ever converted...

[F0X7713]

Final Fantasy Tactics into a d20 game? I have been browsing the internet, but found no such thing, and just wondered if anyone in GitP has done this or not.

[nyarlathotep]

Not that I know of.

[F0X7713]

Well I can still hope that someone has or someone has at least thought about it, and thus discovered why it wouldn't be able to be created...

[Glimbur]

There's a lot of behind-the-scenes math in Tactics, which would be annoying to do manually. In addition, d20 doesn't mesh well with the Job Points system of Tactics. I would advise using a different system.

[SamBurke]

Someone did FF10 and similar...

[Dsurion]

There's a lot of behind-the-scenes math in Tactics, which would be annoying to do manually. In addition, d20 doesn't mesh well with the Job Points system of Tactics. I would advise using a different system.This. You're basically going to have to work from the ground up and invent all kinds of mechanics no matter what you do, though.

I toyed with the idea very briefly once. Once.

But I hear good things about the FFD6 system that Dust made...

[Sgt. Cookie]

As a system? Not that I can think of. I did create the Beastmaster class from A2 though.

[Grinner]

If you did use a d20 system for this, D20 Modern or Modern Pathfinder, by their generic nature, would be the way to go. Feat-based multiclassing a la D&D 4e would also be in order.

Even then, the game wouldn't quite represent Final Fantasy Tactics, since characters in that game can freely switch between classes.

[The-Mage-King]

I've done a couple of classes based on FFTA and A2, linked in my extended sig.

I've also got a rough idea of how to run a game in 3.5, using psionics instead of magic.

See here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=12486185&postcount=15) for the classes I'd use.

[Sage of Legaia]

Even then, the game wouldn't quite represent Final Fantasy Tactics, since characters in that game can freely switch between classes.

Hmm, but there's no reason this couldn't be incorporated, is there? Just make it cost XP to change classes, with more advanced classes costing more XP to switch to. The more a character switches classes, the further behind in XP they become, which should balance things out a bit. They start at first level in that class, but lose the class abilities of the one they switched from.

Problem is, they'd have to keep track of what level they reached as each class, since the job abilities mechanic would likely have to be preserved to make switching at all seem like a good idea. So maybe rule that things like Uncanny Dodge and Rage can be "moved over", but things like Sneak Attack and Wild Shape can't.

Another issue is that each class has 20 levels by default, with most features spread out somewhat nicely among them, while Tactics had only 8 levels. Squishing will be required... And then the issue of whether their character level drops at all has to be accounted for. Because if it doesn't, multiclassing in this way could severely weaken a character, but enforcing level loss could create a party with wildly different levels and make planning encounters a pain for the DM...

Huh... I kind of really want to do this now...

[Grod_The_Giant]

You could get a fair chunk of the flavor by using the d20 Modern system of 10-level base classes and 10-level "advanced" classes (don't remember the exact term; never really played with the system). Standard multiclassing could probably handle the ability to use spells and abilities from another job. I'm not sure how you could handle the free-switching of jobs without complete system revisions, though. Facing rules, but you could probably simplify that to a penalty to head-on attacks and a bonus to attacks from behind.

...

If you were willing to do a bit more work, you might be able to do something like Exalted's Charms, where you buy abilities from a list with experience, instead of getting new class features as you level up. Actually... now that I think about it...

Each job gives you access to a list of skills.
Every time you level up, you pick a skill off the list from your current job, and you gain new health, mana, skill points and so on based on your current job.
You can use the skills from a second job at no penalty.
One "support" skill and one "reaction" skill at a time from any job.
Advanced jobs-- like PrCs-- require certain skills to enter, or a certain number of skills from a basic job.
You might be able to get away with freely switching between jobs, although it would probably end up being really easy to build a sub-optimal character.


I will say that however you build the system, requiring item drops to learn abilities would probably be very frustrating in practice, and either leave the players feeling like they have no control over their own character growth, make them give up hard-earned loot if they want to control their character, or just hand lists of items they want to the DM (thus eliminating the chance aspect completely.)

[Grinner]

They start at first level in that class, but lose the class abilities of the one they switched from.

Disagreed. Starting off as a character of level one class abilities again while everyone else hits Level 5 would make multiclassing pointless.

In fact, as I recall, characters can make use of learned abilities from classes other than their current one. *


Problem is, they'd have to keep track of what level they reached as each class, since the job abilities mechanic would likely have to be preserved to make switching at all seem like a good idea. So maybe rule that things like Uncanny Dodge and Rage can be "moved over", but things like Sneak Attack and Wild Shape can't.

Another issue is that each class has 20 levels by default, with most features spread out somewhat nicely among them, while Tactics had only 8 levels. Squishing will be required... And then the issue of whether their character level drops at all has to be accounted for. Because if it doesn't, multiclassing in this way could severely weaken a character, but enforcing level loss could create a party with wildly different levels and make planning encounters a pain for the DM...

You might be overthinking this. The intent of this project would be to adapt the world of Final Fantasy Tactics to a d20 system, not the reverse.


*I should note that I've only played FFTA.

[Grimsage Matt]

isn't there a d6 Final fantasy thread on this forum? Remeber seeing one.

[Grinner]

isn't there a d6 Final fantasy thread on this forum? Remeber seeing one.

I think that particular thread deals with FF7?

Remember that every edition of Final Fantasy takes place in a separate setting.

[The-Mage-King]

He means this (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=173958). Sadly, it's currently not downloadable.

[Sage of Legaia]

You might be overthinking this. The intent of this project would be to adapt the world of Final Fantasy Tactics to a d20 system, not the reverse.


*I should note that I've only played FFTA.
Except that the class change system is the core of the Tactics battle system. What you can do in any given combat is entirely dependent on what class you are and what abilities you've learned (from all classes). If you're not going to try adapting the class change mechanic, then you might as well not even try adapting Tactics at all.

I should also note that I hate and despise the Tactics Advanced version of learning abilities, and would not put that in at all, in any way. If abilities are based on something other than level (which they are in Tactics, but not any D20 system I've seen), then that means adding ability or job points to keep track of and calculate for each encounter. And that leaves room for either two big headaches (figuring out how many of these points each enemy/monster/whatever is worth and how much each ability costs) or three big headaches (figuring out how much each attack/skill check/etc. is worth, how much each ability costs, and forcing houserules on what awards them and what doesn't).

If I award it based on each action, if someone really wants JP, they could theoretically just sit there and re-pick the same lock for hours on end to amass JP. Diminishing returns could work, but I have my own issues with that.

You know, I think it might just be easier to have prereqs in place for each ability, and then make each one cost more than the one before. That should solve most of the problems... I think.

And I tend to over-think everything without realising I've done so, so no worries on telling me if I have.

[toapat]

the problem with the class change can actually be somewhat addressed, if we take into account a more constrained version of what happens when you give a PC Multiple Personality Disorder.

basically, you just duplicate your Attributes and HP blocks, then build around that

but, as a pen and paper system, there is no way to efficiently do class swaps like that

[Sage of Legaia]

True.

Instead of making classes a solid part of a character, why not have skills be grouped by class? Everyone gets the same hit die (and maybe an MP die?), but different stats, and you take ranks in skills to advance various classes? You can 'grind' for skills in a certain class, but those points can only be used to advance that particular class (i.e. opening locks repeatedly can only level up thief, whereas heal can only level up white mage, etc.).

I'd probably have to invent/shift around a few skills to accommodate this, but I think it's better than my current idea.

And that leaves it fine for paper and pencil play, since ranks invested are static, just like points would be. And you can figure out your effective level in a class be perhaps adding up all your ranks and dividing them by the number of skills in that class, but abilities granted are dependent on your skill levels.

That creates its own problems, but I think it's getting closer to a functional system.

Thanks for more feedback on my ramblings, btw.

EDIT: I'm not familiar enough with insanity rules in general to know how MPD works in-game, so let me go see what I can find and I'll reevaluate my thoughts.

EDIT2: MPD is barely touched on in UA, and I'm having issues finding more detailed instructions on it to implement it for this system. At the moment, it just seems like more work than what I've got here, so I'm just going to nix it until I get more detail.

[toapat]

EDIT: I'm not familiar enough with insanity rules in general to know how MPD works in-game, so let me go see what I can find and I'll reevaluate my thoughts.

From UA:
Dissociative Identity Disorder (Multiple Personality Disorder)
The character appears to harbor more than one personality, each of which is dominant at times and has its own distinct behavior, name, and even gender. The player needs to keep track of the character’s different personalities. (Each one has the same ability scores and game statistics, but different goals, outlooks, and attitudes.)

well, that is actually something i as a DM and a player feel is much less fun then it could be. Its obviously for balance purposes, you dont want one personality leveling as a Barbarian, and then the other side become a Wizard, but still have the Barb's health

[Sage of Legaia]

Just using the base 3.5 skills as a guide, with some that don't quite fit the FF universe removed:

Thief Skills
Sleight of Hand
Disguise
Open Lock

Priest Skills
Heal
Knowledge (Religion)
Knowledge (History)

Knight Skills
Jump
Swim
Intimidate

Wizard Skills
Knowledge (Arcana)
Spellcraft
Knowledge (The Planes)

Monk Skills
Balance
Climb
Knowledge (Local)

Mediator/Orator Skills
Bluff
Diplomacy
Sense Motive

Archer Skills
Concentration
Spot
Listen

Ninja Skills
Escape Artist
Hide
Move Silently

Chemist Skills
Knowledge (Nature)
Search
Survival

Bard (Male)/Dancer (Female) Skills
Perform (Sing/Dance)
Perform (Strings/Acrobatics)
Knowledge (Nobility)

Geomancer
Knowledge (Architecture)
Knowledge (Dungeoneering)
Knowledge (Geography)

Oracle/Mystic Skills
Disable Device
Gather Information
Handle Animal

I couldn't think of any class that Tumble really fit, and even some of my choices above are tenuous at best (particularly the Oracle/Mystic, but that's what I had left + tumble and couldn't think of a better class that was available to generic units). Profession would be the sole skill governing "special" classes, but I'm thinking of special rules for that particular skill.

Feedback is obviously appreciated, as always.

P.S.: Bard and Dancer are gender segregated only because they are in Tactics. I doubt I'd actually enforce that rule in-game.

[Lappy9001]

He means this (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=173958). Sadly, it's currently not downloadable.I've got a copy...I could ask Dust if he wouldn't mind me uploading it, if you would like.