Weird DM Situation Question: Sunder and Unarmed Strike

[Tokuhara]

Okay. New to DMing and this question popped in my head, and I can't really answer this question:

Situation:

Party's Monk was teleported by party's wizard near the Minotaur. Monk goes for his flurry of blows, but the minotaur has readied an action to Sunder the weapon of the first guy who attacks him. Since the monk is going for an attack (essentially), the Minotaur goes for a Sunder attempt.

Question: Can an Unarmed Strike be sundered? My thought is yes, since the beastie could break the monk's arm/hand/limb and accomplish the same technique as breaking a fighter's sword. However, the rules are fuzzy here. Unarmed strikes, as by a monk, are considered both Natural and Manufactured, so which is correct?

[Elric VIII]

A monk’s unarmed strike is treated both as a manufactured weapon and a natural weapon for the purpose of spells and effects that enhance or improve either manufactured weapons or natural weapons.


You can use a melee attack with a slashing or bludgeoning weapon to strike a weapon or shield that your opponent is holding.

A monk's unarmed strike only counts as a manufactured weapon for spells/enhancements. Otherwise, it is a natural attack, and you cannot sunder natural attacks.

The way you have it worded either 1) The minotaur sunders a weapon the monk might be holding on his person, or 2) he sunders the weapon of the first person to attack him with a weapon.

[eclipsic]

Okay. New to DMing and this question popped in my head, and I can't really answer this question:

Situation:

Party's Monk was teleported by party's wizard near the Minotaur. Monk goes for his flurry of blows, but the minotaur has readied an action to Sunder the weapon of the first guy who attacks him. Since the monk is going for an attack (essentially), the Minotaur goes for a Sunder attempt.

Question: Can an Unarmed Strike be sundered? My thought is yes, since the beastie could break the monk's arm/hand/limb and accomplish the same technique as breaking a fighter's sword. However, the rules are fuzzy here. Unarmed strikes, as by a monk, are considered both Natural and Manufactured, so which is correct?

I'd say "no" just because there are no mechanics to support "sundering" a hand. Also, the SRD says "You can use a melee attack with a slashing or bludgeoning weapon to strike a weapon or shield that your opponent is holding, " and I'd say they weren't "holding" their own hand. Probably best just to make a natural attack not trigger that readied action.

If it were a player holding an action, I'd probably work out something similar to the sunder rules for hydras here (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/hydra.htm), but I wouldn't bother for a monster.

[Elric VIII]

I'd say they weren't "holding" their own hand.

Maybe he's a lonely monk.

[Tokuhara]

I was asking for a definitive answer.

The clarification is that the first opponent who attacks him, he will sunder their weapon.

So in this case, the monk gets a free pass and can wail on the minotaur all he wants for his turn with no repercussions?

[mattie_p]

Monks are nerfed enough that you shouldn't be going around sundering the only good thing they have going for them. Seriously.

If monks were better, I'd consider using that, as it would add realism, but they suck enough as it is that breaking their bones is nothing more than stealing lolly-pops from babies.

[Tokuhara]

Monks are nerfed enough that you shouldn't be going around sundering the only good thing they have going for them. Seriously.

If monks were better, I'd consider using that, as it would add realism, but they suck enough as it is that breaking their bones is nothing more than stealing lolly-pops from babies.

In my campaign, I'm giving Monk full BAB and just allowing Flurry of Blows to add an extra attack every few levels

[eclipsic]

I was asking for a definitive answer.

The clarification is that the first opponent who attacks him, he will sunder their weapon.

So in this case, the monk gets a free pass and can wail on the minotaur all he wants for his turn with no repercussions?

That's why games have referees; when the rules don't apply to the situation, someone has to make a judgment call.

[Tokuhara]

That's why games have referees; when the rules don't apply to the situation, someone has to make a judgment call.

This was just a hypothetical situation