Monsters in the Party

[NotScaryBats]

I was reading a thread here that made a 20 level progression for a Tarrasque PC and I immediately thought of what kind of game a person could play the Tarrasque in.

The first idea that came to mind was a sort of "Strange Hatchling" storyline that involved the party finding an egg that hatches and a strange creature comes out that begins to follow them around -- as a PC. I picture an intelligent being from birth that likely doesn't speak, but can understand language. It would probably be necessary that no one knew precisely the nature of the hatchling.

Has anyone got any experience with such a set up -- like a baby dragon in the party or something?

As players or GMs?

Any thoughts?

[TheCountAlucard]

It depends - is this primarily going to be 3.5-centric, or can those of us who've played other games share our experiences? :smalltongue:

[Shadowknight12]

I mostly run and play monster parties. Unmodified humanoids are just so utterly dull.

[NotScaryBats]

My main wonder is how a single monster works in a party of relatively normal people -- does it get really boring for the monster who has to rp more, regardless of system.

That sort of thing.

[Gnomish Wanderer]

I also mainly run monstrous PC's, I've never had just one in a group of normal types.

But I'd imagine it all depends on who is stuck with the monster. As a role-playing I would love the challenge and I don't think I'd get bored with coming up with new ways to surprise the party and not let them onto what I really was until the big finale.

But I imagine many players would get sick of it or just pretend the role-playing aspect wasn't even there, depending on their playstyle. It would be important to talk to your player about it first and see if she is excited about the idea or not.

[Fatebreaker]

From my experience (which may or may not be of value to you), having some "other" in the party can be a good thing, if the player, the party, and the DM all have a clear understanding of what that entails.

Example #1: Where It All Went Wrong
In Shadowrun, our Gamemaster let me play as an A.I. in a combat chassis undergoing field testing. Shadowrun players are probably wondering what my GM was thinking.

My understanding was that I would play this hyper-lethal machine capable of having a great deal of book knowledge , but very little understanding of how humans interacted with one another. This fit me, the player, because I had the most "book knowledge" from actually reading all the Shadowrun books, and also because all but one of the other players was new to Shadowrun, so letting them take centerstage in roleplaying was a positive element I was okay with. Intentionally roleplaying a character who was bad at social interactions can be a lot of fun, and I was looking forward to giving that a whirl since I usually play a charisma-heavy character. I even had ideas about the eventual day when my A.I. when rampant or rogue. Plus, the A.I. that develops a soul is a tried and true sci-fi trope that I've always wanted to play.

My GM just thought of me as a walking gun. He never connected "Artificial" with "Intelligence." Any time I tried to do anything not combat related (or some occasional slapstick comedy), he... well, he never really got mad, he just made it clear that I was spinning my wheels. Metaphorically. My combat chassis didn't have wheels. But it was clear that anything which didn't involve "point-and-shoot" was not on the menu.

The party was a mixed bag. One of the other players was supposed to be my "minder" who kept tabs on me and made sure that I didn't do anything too stupid. He was awesome. We usually ended up roleplaying together, because the rest of the party ignored us until it was "time to send the damn robot forward."

If we'd all been on the same page, I might have played a different character, or if I'd liked that page, we'd all have gotten a lot more enjoyment out of the character.

Example #2: Where It All Went Right
This one comes from the ol' Star Wars d6 system. One of our players wanted to play a Jawa. Now, a Jawa's not exactly a monster, but it's weird and different and it speaks its own noise-sound-language-thing. So we sat down and figured out how that would work. Our final compromise was he could only make one "oo-tini" pun per session ("What'll you have to drink?" / "Mar-tini!"), and he could have a cheap device that had a few words in Basic, which he could combine to form sentences. Over time, he could program in more. That let him roleplay out the weird buzzing, squeaking noises that Jawas made, but he could also semi-communicate with the group. Sitting down and talking it out ahead of time really made it easier for us to roll along with it, and to see the limitations as a feature and not a bug.

Point is, I strongly recommend making sure that you and the player are both on the same page before you start playing. I also recommend that you make sure everyone else is, if not on the same page, then at least reading the same book.

"So-and-so is going to be playing something a little different this campaign. We've got some good story ideas we'd like to explore with it, so I hope y'all don't mind. If you have any problems, please talk to me and we'll try and work them out."

Y'know, something like that. Whatever works best for your group. The most important thing, though, is that at least you and the specific player are on the same page, because if they aren't enjoying the character, then nobody is.

[Solaris]

Try to avoid bringing the big dragon-looking monster into town. That cuts down on torches and pitchforks.

If you're the DM, make sure you're not falling into the age-old problem of trying to shoehorn a player into playing a character a certain way. Work with him and help him come up with reasons and motivations if he can't.

If you're the player, you'd better have some decent reasons for playing the monster in a way that makes the DM's head explode. It helps if you actually know something about the monster and can thus play it properly (whether you play it by type or against type, understand the critter's motivations).

[Hyudra]

Between curses and eccentricities, I think PCs could get away with a lot, as far as monsters in their party.

In my settings, for example, it would not be 100% unusual for a young lady aristocrat of high standing to have a minotaur bodyguard. Maybe Dominated, maybe geased, maybe simply loyal due to deeply ingrained cultural loyalty. The monster contrasts the daintiness of the lady (or the lad, if he's effeminate, which is ok), offers a degree of protection and intimidation that a normal warrior might not, and has special talents and skills that a human protector wouldn't (such as the ability to tear a door off its hinges and scent). The fact that it can't get the young lady pregnant helps banish speculation that would follow human protectors for human aristocrats.

(My settings normally assume a degree of iron age conflict - adventurers rise and fall, the people in power usually have some big degree of skill/power that led to them deposing the previous ruler or earning the right to rule their town/city/kingdom through adventure, and anyone that has a son or daughter with aristocrat levels & little else better have a good way to protect or power up their kids, or there's going to be trouble down the line when the evil adventuring company or whoever try to take charge).

In a similar vein, adventuring companies might take a mascot. Picture the Green Dragons, who found an egg after killing a dragon and have raised a whelp that clings to their group leader's shoulderpad.

Or a samurai bested an ogre mage in fair combat and showed mercy - which the ogre mage took to mean he had to serve that samurai unto death. Because while he's evil, he's also damn lawful, and it wouldn't occur to him to do different. The tale spreads just fast enough that people typically hear of the pair (and their companions) before they arrive somewhere.

I'd say if someone wants to play a monster class, they have a responsibility to come up with a genuine way for things to work. The DM can help (as in the first example).

As a final note, to OP: As someone who worked on the project & briefly ran it, the Tarrasque monster class from the community monster classes project is terrible. It is not balanced, and there's a lot wrong with the design. Be warned.

[NotScaryBats]

Well, thanks for the advice, everyone.

My players are generally not interested in such things, but as a player, I am. I have been playing undead pcs lately, but was thinking of branching out into the aforementioned monstrous monster class if I find another game that suits me. Or maybe a different one if the one I mentioned is unbalanced

I have never played in a game that really does react to extraordinary pcs. Usually it is either "okay you're wearing a cloak" or simply forgotten. I imagine it would get tiresome to be run out of every town.

[Shadowknight12]

I have never played in a game that really does react to extraordinary pcs. Usually it is either "okay you're wearing a cloak" or simply forgotten. I imagine it would get tiresome to be run out of every town.

I personally hate the typical "superstitious, xenophobic, uncultured village of commoners." See my previous post re: unmodified humanoids are dull. My villages are usually more eclectic than that, and its inhabitants are not immune to irony, so they won't be bringing up the torches and pitchforks on someone who could be mistaken for the local blacksmith's sibling.

The way my typical villages go, unmodified humanoids are a lot like sponges, or perhaps sponge cakes, which soak up the colour and flavour of things around them. I introduce a few fey, celestials, fiends, monsters, undead, constructs or anything like that, and then I watch them adapt and change into something far more interesting than That Same Village You've Seen In Every Medieval Fantasy Setting.

Why, in one game I ran, I had a small hamlet be protected by a sentient, intelligent golem (who acted like a blend between a gentle giant and a robot-like AI always seeking to understand humans) and the rest of the village changed with the following years as a result of its influence. They redecorated their homes with stone and iron, they sculpted life-sized statues of the golem, adorned themselves in its image, adopted a more logical/scientific demeanour and so on. It was meant to be a pit-stop for the party, not actually part of the overarching plot, but it made the otherwise dull and dreary clichéd village something actually worth remembering. The players had a blast interacting with the villagers and the golem, and even went back to defend that village specifically when it was threatened by the forces of the Big Bad. I thought it was nice of them.

[Tengu_temp]

I mostly run and play monster parties. Unmodified humanoids are just so utterly dull.

Only if you don't bother to give them any personality beyond a super-generic archetype.

[Steward]

In my settings, for example, it would not be 100% unusual for a young lady aristocrat of high standing to have a minotaur bodyguard. Maybe Dominated, maybe geased, maybe simply loyal due to deeply ingrained cultural loyalty. The monster contrasts the daintiness of the lady (or the lad, if he's effeminate, which is ok),

Heh, I think next to a minotaur any humanoid will look "dainty", even Durkon.

I definitely agree with the notion that the way the setting is... well... set up determines the issues that will come into play. If you're playing the "xenophobic superstitious humanoids rule the world" type setting, monstrous creatures will have different issues deal with than if you're playing in a world like, for example, the Discworld or Sigil, where monstrous races are integrated with humanoids to a large extent and seeing a minotaur at the corner store won't necessarily result in a horrible riot.

I do think that there will have to be some adjustments though. The Tarrasque is Colossal, meaning that there are serious physical limitations in the kinds of places it can go, which in turn means that more effort has to be made to ensure that such a gigantic creature can participate in the game alongside companions that are many times smaller. But those are technical details that are unlikely to come up with most monster races.

[Shadowknight12]

Only if you don't bother to give them any personality beyond a super-generic archetype.

I'm a poor roleplayer: I need crutches. Humans give me nothing to work with, so making them relevant and interesting costs me an inordinate amount of effort, time and energy.

[Fatebreaker]

I'm a poor roleplayer: I need crutches. Humans give me nothing to work with, so making them relevant and interesting costs me an inordinate amount of effort, time and energy.

Do you not know any interesting people?

[Shadowknight12]

Do you not know any interesting people?

Actually, no, I don't. Holy crap. That may actually be the reason I like fantasy in the first place. Huh.

[Mastikator]

I've played a dragon polymorphed into a human once. A very evil fire breathing dragon. In this particular setting dragon polymorphed into humans (or anything else) lose all their physical powers and instead gain those of its new form, so I was playing a human with the mind of a dragon.
So yeah, extreme greed, impulsiveness, giant ego, great deal of wealth, disregard for human life (since humans are lesser after all), knowledge about magic, disdain for inferior human gods. And so on and so forth.

Turns out it wasn't as a great idea as I thought it would be.

The idea was that this dragon wanted to conquer human society from within, so the character would be someone of high social status, so I played a priest from a wealthy noble family, everything fabricated of course, couldn't even do "priest magic", but as long as you know all the important scripture, dress like a priest, behave like a priest people believe you.
The problem was that a priest of this particular religion (which just so happens to be THE ONE TRUE FAITH of the land) explicitly says that priests must be honest and humble and patient and basically the opposite of how a dragon behaves, so the other players started suspecting that something was a bit off, especially because I never used any priest magic (and whenever I play a magic user of any kind I always use it a lot). Also being supernaturally deceptive and knowledge that should normally take decades to learn, seemed weird.
It quickly spiraled out of control, the other players liked how well I played the character, but inconvenient circumstances around the other PCs made it so I had to stop before the group imploded. Which is not only my fault, in fact I wasn't even the worst.

[Xuc Xac]

Actually, no, I don't. Holy crap. That may actually be the reason I like fantasy in the first place. Huh.

Try reading a good pop history book. All of history's greatest heroes and villains were humans.

Or most fiction, for that matter. James Bond, Conan the Cimmerian, Indiana Jones, and Boromir were all humans. Do you really think Chewbacca is more interesting than Han Solo?

[Shadowknight12]

Try reading a good pop history book. All of history's greatest heroes and villains were humans.

Or most fiction, for that matter. James Bond, Conan the Cimmerian, Indiana Jones, and Boromir were all humans. Do you really think Chewbacca is more interesting than Han Solo?

Huh. I just realised it's a vicious cycle. If humans are dull, then clearly any story that's exclusively about them will be dull (and therefore a waste of my time), so I won't read it, which means I'll never be exposed to instances of humans not being dull, therefore I will never stop thinking humans are dull. Hence why I am mostly relegated to fantasy or stories that deal heavily with the supernatural.

As for the question, I've never watched Star Wars, sorry. :smallyuk:

I mean, really. If you have an entire Monster Manual (five of them, actually, plus the Terrain Trilogy, Fiend Folio, other campaign settings and random miscellanea) worth of creatures, why pick boring old humanoids? Their purpose in a story can be filled with appropriate creatures from the myriad of sourcebooks out there. Why have a human being the village's blacksmith when you can have a ghost or hound archon instead?

[Xuc Xac]

When everything is weird, the weird becomes mundane.

[Morithias]

Had a Succubus in the party once....we also had a Paladin in the party.

Oddly enough it went pretty well, they actually ended up together and had a half-fiend baby who grew up to be a cleric of the goddess of love, stating that "if a succubus and a paladin could love anyone can".

Of course the paladin eventually died of old age, so the succubus plane shifted to the heavens and proceeded to spend the rest of her existence in a plane that literally made her skin itch to spend eternity with her beloved.

I have insulin shots for those who need it.

[Ravens_cry]

It would be almost fun to play the human in such a party, and be the most evil, conniving, diabolical, bastard ever to walk on two legs.
Whose the monster then?:smallamused:

[horngeek]

Had a Succubus in the party once....we also had a Paladin in the party.

Oddly enough it went pretty well, they actually ended up together and had a half-fiend baby who grew up to be a cleric of the goddess of love, stating that "if a succubus and a paladin could love anyone can".

Of course the paladin eventually died of old age, so the succubus plane shifted to the heavens and proceeded to spend the rest of her existence in a plane that literally made her skin itch to spend eternity with her beloved.

I have insulin shots for those who need it.

...that's as great as the Succubus who became a Paladin herself. :smallsmile:

[Morithias]

...that's as great as the Succubus who became a Paladin herself. :smallsmile:

Thank you! We found it quite sweet as well.

[Ravens_cry]

Had a Succubus in the party once....we also had a Paladin in the party.

Oddly enough it went pretty well, they actually ended up together and had a half-fiend baby who grew up to be a cleric of the goddess of love, stating that "if a succubus and a paladin could love anyone can".

Of course the paladin eventually died of old age, so the succubus plane shifted to the heavens and proceeded to spend the rest of her existence in a plane that literally made her skin itch to spend eternity with her beloved.

I have insulin shots for those who need it.
Nah, no need for insulin my good chum, I had a paladin fall in love with a harpy, courted her when he had the time during the campaign, and eventually proposed to and married her, giving up immortality in the process.
Love finds a way. :smallsmile:

[Morithias]

Nah, no need for insulin my good chum, I had a paladin fall in love with a harpy, courted her when he had the time during the campaign, and eventually proposed to and married her, giving up immortality in the process.
Love finds a way. :smallsmile:

Making a new thread. I want to see this story in it. I'm particularly interested in the whole "giving up immortality" part of it.

[Solaris]

It would be almost fun to play the human in such a party, and be the most evil, conniving, diabolical, bastard ever to walk on two legs.
Whose the monster then?:smallamused:

My players have found that the DM doesn't like the competition.