Keylac
2012-04-07, 07:38 AM
My roommate and I were discussing Initiator classes (he wants to play one in the campaign I'm starting next week) when we got to discussing White Raven Tactics. This also led to a secondary discussion about PrC's and how they apply to Initiator levels.
1) With White Raven Tactics, we realized that, hypothetically with an Anything 6/Warblade 1/Crusader 1/ Master of Nine 4/Anything 8, you could create a god. The theory goes like this: First, anytime you gain a Martial Maneuver from Master of Nine, you apply it to Warblade (except once). Second, you apply the Extra Readied Maneuvers to Crusader, also giving him Extra Granted Maneuvers. You use the only extra maneuver the Crusader gets to pick up White Raven Tactics.
(FYI, the book specifically says you choose which initiator class (if you have more then one) that you apply extra maneuvers to, and which class you apply readied maneuvers to.)
You now, as a Crusader, know 6 maneuvers, and are granted 6 maneuvers at the start of each turn. So every turn, you get them all back. You then use White Raven Tactics on yourself each turn, which then comes back when you go again, which you then use...
Hypothetically, you could take an infinite number of turns each round. Note, we realized this depends upon the ruling that you count as an "Ally" for White Raven Tactics. Then again, if that didn't work, it would just take two different guys doing this to each other.
So.... are we completely screwy here? After making this, we came up with a bunch of ideas on how to be more powerful when you take those turns, but honestly, we didn't think it really mattered much. If you can survive the one turn the bad guy has, you can spend infinity killing him with a toothpick.
On a side note, I told him if he tried this, Chuck E. Cheese, High Cleric of Pun Pun, would visit his wrath upon him.
2) One of the ways we thought to make him more powerful was to use a single level of each Initiator Class (Crusader, Swordsage, Warblade) before going into 12 levels of Initiator PrC's. The PrC's add their full level to that of you're initiator class when determining you're total initiator level, and thus, the highest level maneuvers you can choose.
What it doesn't say is that it only adds it to one class. So hypothetically, if you were to get 1 level of each, then switch to a PrC as soon as possible (level 6 seems to be the earliest) then you would be a level 1 (the class itself) + 15 (the PrC's) + 2 (1/2 the other class levels) = level 18 Initiator in all three classes, and therefore have level 9 maneuvers (assuming you could pick them up) in all three classes.
Is that right? It wouldn't necessarily be that awesome, since chances are any one of those classes has all the level 9 maneuvers you want, but it is something we wondered about.
(BTW, I'm sorry about being so verbose. It's really early here and I tend to get loquacious when I'm tired)
- Key
1) With White Raven Tactics, we realized that, hypothetically with an Anything 6/Warblade 1/Crusader 1/ Master of Nine 4/Anything 8, you could create a god. The theory goes like this: First, anytime you gain a Martial Maneuver from Master of Nine, you apply it to Warblade (except once). Second, you apply the Extra Readied Maneuvers to Crusader, also giving him Extra Granted Maneuvers. You use the only extra maneuver the Crusader gets to pick up White Raven Tactics.
(FYI, the book specifically says you choose which initiator class (if you have more then one) that you apply extra maneuvers to, and which class you apply readied maneuvers to.)
You now, as a Crusader, know 6 maneuvers, and are granted 6 maneuvers at the start of each turn. So every turn, you get them all back. You then use White Raven Tactics on yourself each turn, which then comes back when you go again, which you then use...
Hypothetically, you could take an infinite number of turns each round. Note, we realized this depends upon the ruling that you count as an "Ally" for White Raven Tactics. Then again, if that didn't work, it would just take two different guys doing this to each other.
So.... are we completely screwy here? After making this, we came up with a bunch of ideas on how to be more powerful when you take those turns, but honestly, we didn't think it really mattered much. If you can survive the one turn the bad guy has, you can spend infinity killing him with a toothpick.
On a side note, I told him if he tried this, Chuck E. Cheese, High Cleric of Pun Pun, would visit his wrath upon him.
2) One of the ways we thought to make him more powerful was to use a single level of each Initiator Class (Crusader, Swordsage, Warblade) before going into 12 levels of Initiator PrC's. The PrC's add their full level to that of you're initiator class when determining you're total initiator level, and thus, the highest level maneuvers you can choose.
What it doesn't say is that it only adds it to one class. So hypothetically, if you were to get 1 level of each, then switch to a PrC as soon as possible (level 6 seems to be the earliest) then you would be a level 1 (the class itself) + 15 (the PrC's) + 2 (1/2 the other class levels) = level 18 Initiator in all three classes, and therefore have level 9 maneuvers (assuming you could pick them up) in all three classes.
Is that right? It wouldn't necessarily be that awesome, since chances are any one of those classes has all the level 9 maneuvers you want, but it is something we wondered about.
(BTW, I'm sorry about being so verbose. It's really early here and I tend to get loquacious when I'm tired)
- Key