[PF] Easing a 4E player's transition

[Makeitstop]

So I'm getting a pathfinder game going, and at the moment we have two 3.5 vets (myself and the GM), two newbies, and a player who has only played 4E.

Now, newbies are easy enough to handle, and the GM and I have been studying pathfinder inside and out for weeks in anticipation, but I have no idea what to expect from the 4E guy as neither I nor the GM have any experience with 4E.

Since we are already wrangling two newbies through the basics and character creation, I'm happy to have someone with some experience, but I'd like to know the key differences to point out to help ease his transition. I tried searching for such info, but mostly found 3.5 to Pathfinder, and "why our system is better" but not key differences to be aware of when switching from one to the other.

Your help would be much appreciated.

[DeltaEmil]

Don't fuss about it. Just help the 4th edition-player like you're helping the newbies, if they need help in deciding stuff or don't understand how something works.
And don't let edition-warring happen on the gaming table. Just play together.

[GoodbyeSoberDay]

You'll have to go over some nitty gritty stuff like skill ranks versus skill training, PrC versus Paragon Path, level-based multiclassing versus feat-based multiclassing, non-proficiency penalty versus proficiency bonus, etc., but the big things are going to be...

1. Less uniformity. In 4e basically every check is 1d20+half level+relevant ability score+other relevant modifiers. Notice that "half level?" That replaces BaB, skill points and saving throw progression. In early 4e everyone had the same progression of at-will, per-encounter, and daily powers, all of corresponding level, while in 3e it's a grab bag.
2. Vancian casting. Yes, the Wizard has a little bit of this in 4e, but you're going to have to explain things like how a 9th level wizard only gets 5th level spells.
3. Feats are different. Actually, PF went the way of 4e here. Feats are usually just little bonuses, and they're more plentiful. So that won't be a big deal.

The big thing is to prepare for the inevitable "well that's the way it worked in 4e!" Ready sighs.

[Makeitstop]

Yes, that's exactly the kind of information I'm looking for. Thank you.


The big thing is to prepare for the inevitable "well that's the way it worked in 4e!" Ready sighs.
Fortunately, I know the guy quite well and he's pretty easy going. I don't foresee any real difficulty with his attitude, just the trickiness of learning all the differences, big and small.

[fryplink]

I'd suggest poking through a 4th edition book a little bit just to get the jist of things. Similes make the transitions a lot easier.

"AC is like it is in 4th edition, but the other saves are more like skill checks with your life on the line"

Will make more sense then:

"With AC your opponent tries to roll over your AC value, after adding various bonuses, while saves in reverse, your opponent has a set DC that you have to overcome by adding in your save bonus and rolling."

but say the same thing, if you have the context.

Also, when going from 3.5 to 4th the uniform saves threw me for a loop for a bit, being used to the old system, and 4th edition is more intuitive in that regard, so it will be even harder. Actually, the newbies might adjust to the mechanics faster than the 4th ed vet, because of the old (new) system being in the way.

[Makeitstop]

Actually, the newbies might adjust to the mechanics faster than the 4th ed vet, because of the old (new) system being in the way.
My thoughts exactly. Hence the desire to know the basic differences in advance.


I'd suggest poking through a 4th edition book a little bit just to get the jist of things.
Hmm, don't have any of those, nor do I know of any place around here that would have some for me to look through. And I don't know of any (legal) online sources either. Quite annoying.

[some guy]

Hmm, don't have any of those, nor do I know of any place around here that would have some for me to look through. And I don't know of any (legal) online sources either. Quite annoying.

You could use the quick start rules (http://www.wizards.com/dnd/files/quickstartrules.pdf).

The main important stuff has already been said, maybe the differences in charge and the concept of combat advantage is worth explaining.