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LordofBones
2012-04-07, 01:42 PM
LIFEBANE MAGIC
Your Necromancy spells are particularly potent against the living.
Prerequisites: Knowledge (arcana) 8 ranks; Spell Focus (Necromancy)
Benefits: When you cast a Necromancy spell against a living target, you add +1 to the DC of the spell. This stacks with Spell Focus.

GREATER LIFEBANE MAGIC
Your Necromancy spells are particularly deadly against the living.
Prerequisites: Knowledge (arcana) 13 ranks, Greater Spell Focus (Necromancy), Lifebane Magic, Spell Focus (Necromancy)
Benefits: When you cast a Necromancy spell against a living target, you add +2 to the DC of the spell. This stacks with Lifebane Magic and Spell Focus.

DEATHGRIP MAGIC [METAMAGIC]
Your enemies have much to fear from your Necromancy.
Prerequisites: Able to cast 7th level Necromancy spells; Greater Spell Focus (Necromancy), Spell Focus (Necromancy)
Benefits: By utilizing certain rare reagents, you are able to augment your Necromancy spells. Refer to the following chart for the modifications imposed by this feat:
Type Modifications
Ability Damage/Drain: damage die improves by one step
Death Effect: Your death effects ignore immunity to necromantic death effects, although such creatures gain half their HD as a bonus to their save (or, in the case of death ward, a +4 bonus).
Direct Damage: +1 damage per spellcasting attribute modifier
Level Drain: You benefit from negative levels as though you were an undead creature.

A deathgrip spell occupies the same spell slot as the original spell, but the caster must expend 200 gp per spell level's worth of necromantic reagents (such as grave dust, the fang of a freshly slain vampire, a finger of a lich and so on) to prepare and cast the spell.

Harry
2012-04-07, 01:59 PM
LIFEBANE MAGIC
Your Necromancy spells are particularly potent against the living.
Prerequisites: Spell Focus (Necromancy)
Benefits: When you cast a Necromancy spell against a living target, you add +1 to the DC of the spell. This stacks with Spell Focus.

GREATER LIFEBANE MAGIC
Your Necromancy spells are particularly deadly against the living.
Prerequisites: Greater Spell Focus (Necromancy), Lifebane Magic, Spell Focus (Necromancy)
Benefits: When you cast a Necromancy spell against a living target, you add +2 to the DC of the spell. This replaces the bonus from Lifebane Magic but stacks with Spell Focus.

DEATHGRIP MAGIC
Your enemies have much to fear from your Necromancy.
Prerequisites: Able to cast 9th level Necromancy spells; Greater Spell Focus (Necromancy), Spell Focus (Necromancy)
Benefits: Necromancy spells you cast are particularly powerful, affecting a foe based on the type of damage they inflict. Refer to the following chart for the modifications imposed by this feat:
Type Modifications
Ability Damage/Drain: damage die improves by one step
Death Effect: Creatures normally immune to death effects instead gain one-half their Hit Dice as a bonus to their saving throw.
Direct Damage: +1 damage per spellcasting attribute modifier
Level Drain: You benefit from negative levels as though you were an undead creature.
Seems balanced but getting greater lifebane magic cost a lot of feats maybe remove the need for greater spell focus

HearTheRequiem
2012-04-07, 03:26 PM
I like the ideas, a lot. But the Lifebane chain seems like a slightly weaker version of Spell Focus, with diminishing returns since it doesn't affect non-living things.

Would it be a good idea to make Greater Lifebane provide a +3 instead of a +2?

Grod_The_Giant
2012-04-07, 04:25 PM
The Lifebane feats honestly feel pretty redundant. They're mechanically inferior to the Spell Focus feats, and not many mage builds have room to take both of those, much less another two even more limited versions.

Deathgrip Magic, on the other hand, is probably a bit too strong. All of the 4 effects are useful, but the ability to ignore death effect immunity is way beyond the other three. The huge bonus to saves might balance it out, but... you realize that feat would let you use finger of death on, say, a zombie, right? Or a golem? You might want to cut it down to just bypassing death ward and similar magic effects. And possibly lower the level requirements; a feat that can only be taken at 18th level will almost never make it into the average game.

LordofBones
2012-04-08, 12:24 AM
Edited with the feedback. Thanks guys.

My idea for the Lifebane feats was more for a BBEG or a necromancer more interested in how negative energy interacts with the living rather than mass animating graveyards.

Deathgrip Magic has had its prerequisites lowered, plus the death effect has been changed to bypassing magical immunity to death effects.

Cieyrin
2012-04-08, 09:06 AM
I would actually combine the two Lifebanes into one flat +2 and add a skill requirement, Knowledge(Arcana) being the obvious one, so it's not Human Necro Wizard 1 with flaws picking up +4 DC from the get-go. I'd tie it into 5th level for the bonus Wizard feat then, so Knowledge(Arcana) 8. Alternatively, a CL requirement could be attached as well.

Deathgrip Magic kinda treads on Black Lore of Moil and really feels like it's doing a lot of things for not much cost, even if it's a high level feat. I'd apply a material cost requirement on it and let the Necromancer choose which Necro spells they want to spend money on to improve and let them choose 1 effect to get, which is often all they need, anyways. It really feels like it should be a Metamagic, basically, with all the costs associated with that.

Those changes I think would balance it for the advantages, especially ignoring immunities, which I'd return to what it was pre-edit, just now with a material cost. Them's my 2 coppers. Take as you will.

LordofBones
2012-04-09, 12:32 PM
Edited it again. How's it look now?

DaTedinator
2012-04-09, 01:22 PM
Lifebane Magic isn't worth a feat, and both it and Greater Lifebane magic - though the latter is maybe worth a feat - are, frankly, boring. Both of them need something more to make them worthwhile, both crunchwise and fluffwise.

Especially with that name. "Lifebane." That's a really cool name for such boring effects. What if - in addition to the current effects - Lifebane Magic let you change any spell that deals energy damage to deal half negative energy damage? And then Greater Lifebane let you change them to entirely negative energy damage? Moreover, then change the feats so the bonus to Save DC also applies to all spells that deal negative energy damage, so boom, now the feats are giving you the bonus in more situations. I might bump Greater Lifebane down to only +1 in that case.

Now that's still not crazy exciting, and I'm sure if you put some thought into it, you can come up with something cooler and better. Moreover, it seems like it's probably straying from your original image for the feat, so you can probably think of something that fits that better. I'm just spitballing.

Sorry if I sounded a little harsh, it's just that you set a high standard for yourself with Deathgrip Magic.

Because Deathgrip Magic looks great. A little powerful, but it requires 9th level spells; by that point, it should be. Besides, a focused necromancer at that point needs a big boost. It's a great way to give a much-needed boost to focused necromancers. Moreover, the gold-instead-of-increased-level approach allows Necromancers to use it to keep even their higher-level spells relevant, while also not just plain giving them all the bonuses all the time.

The feat is flavorful and mechanically sound.

The only real critique I have for that is that I would consider changing the Death Ward bonus to +(1/2 caster level) rather than a flat +4. But it's not necessary, and maybe not even recommended. Just worth considering.

Veklim
2012-04-10, 07:20 AM
I'd be tempted to make lifebane magic +2, and use that as the requirement for deathgrip magic, instead of greater spell focus. That way Greater lifebane could give you something a little more flavourful...

bloodtide
2012-04-10, 01:40 PM
1.Lifebane is a good idea. To give another limited plus to DC's is fine. (Though in my game Outsiders and elementals are not 'alive' and would not be effected. So I'd have to say 'any living Prime Plane creature').

2.Greater Lifebane is not so good. Three feats just to get another +2 to the DC? I guess it might have some use, but at 10th+ level there are lots of other feats to pick from and the DC increase just does not look that useful. What this feat needs is a bit more flavor...to do something other then 'just' add to the DC. Maybe make the target sickened or something like that?

3.Deathgrip Magic look just too broken and powerful. For a bit of gold you get way too much. The immunity to death effects really bothers me, but the other metamagic is bad too.