Arena Tournament, Round 111: this vs Karma

[ArenaManager]

Arena Tournament, Round 111: this 2.0 vs. Karma

Map:http://i876.photobucket.com/albums/ab330/ArenaManager/Arenas/11-scorers_glass_arena.png

XP Award: 300 XP
GP Award: 300 GP

this (http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheetview.php?sheetid=332509) - jvluso
Karma (http://www.thetangledweb.net/forums/profiler/view_char.php?cid=53191) - Sallera

All Combatants, please roll initiative and declare final purchases, if any

[jvluso]

init - [roll0]

Starting in M4 wielding longbow

What spells are in Karma's spellbook?

[Sallera]

They're listed on the sheet; click 'Display Spells and Powers.'

Initiative: Better of [roll0], [roll1] (Watchful Spirit reroll)

Purchasing Leather Armour, a scroll of Magic Missile, and a scroll of Magic Weapon.

[jvluso]

-12.5 craft 5 dragonsbreath arrows

You may begin if you have no other purchases

[Sallera]

Karma, Round 1

Starting in M23, holding crossbow in one hand and wearing armour.
Standard: Cast spell, failure [roll0], Spellcraft DC18 to identify:Sudden Extended Shield.
Move: To J17.

Stats:HP 5/5, AC15 (13, 12)
Active effects: None
Spells:
0th:
Detect Magic
Detect Magic
Detect Magic
1st:
Shield
Scales of the Lizard
Done.

[jvluso]

Just making sure, that spell did fail right?
Also why DC18?

this - round 1

assuming everything is legal:

standard: use levitate SLA
move: move to E4

turn done.

stats:
Hp:9/9
AC: 15 [touch 12,ff 12]

inspiration: 2/2
levitate: 1/50

[Sallera]

Yes, and Drow Sign Language.

Karma, Round 2

Standard: Cast spell, failure [roll0], Spellcraft DC18 to identify:Scales of the Lizard.
Move: To E15.

Stats:HP 5/5, AC17 (13, 14)
Active effects: Scales of the Lizard 10 rounds
Spells:
0th:
Detect Magic
Detect Magic
Detect Magic
1st:
Shield
Scales of the Lizard
Done.

[Sallera]

Oops, forgot to edit that in the quote. [roll0]

[jvluso]

this - round 2

assuming everything is legal:

move: move to E4+20
standard: ready an action:
If karma moves adjacent to a panel, shoot it using Iaijutsu focus and a serpentstongue arrow

turn done.

stats:
Hp:9/9
AC: 15 [touch 12,ff 12]

inspiration: 2/2
levitate: 2/50[/QUOTE]

[Sallera]

Karma, Round 3

Move: To E17.
Free: Shift to two-handed grip.
Standard: Fire at this.
Attack: [roll0]
Damage: [roll1]

Stats:HP 5/5, AC17 (13, 14)
Active effects: Scales of the Lizard 9 rounds
Spells:
0th:
Detect Magic
Detect Magic
Detect Magic
1st:
Shield
Scales of the Lizard
Done.

[jvluso]

for reference, at E:
{table=head]height| 1| 2| 3| 4| 5| 6| 7| 8| 9|10|11|12|13|14|15|16|17|18|19|20
+25|
+20| | | |t|
+15|
+10|
+5| | | | | | | | | | | |*|*|
+0| | | | | | | | | | | |*|*| | | |K|
[/table]
t is this, K is Karma, * is the spaces adjacent to the wall

the attack misses

this - round 3

assuming everything is legal:

move: move to E4+10
standard: ready an action:
If karma moves adjacent to a panel, or ends in a shootable place, shoot

turn done.

stats:
Hp:9/9
AC: 15 [touch 12,ff 12]

inspiration: 2/2
levitate: 3/50

[Sallera]

Karma, Round 4

Move: Reload.
Standard: Ready action:Fire at this should he be within LoE without cover or end his turn within LoE.

Stats:HP 5/5, AC19 (15, 14)
Active effects: Scales of the Lizard 8 rounds
Spells:
0th:
Detect Magic
Detect Magic
Detect Magic
1st:
Shield
Scales of the Lizard
Done.

[jvluso]

this - round 4

assuming everything is legal:

move: move to E4
standard: ready an action:
If karma moves adjacent to a panel, or ends in a shootable place, shoot

turn done.

stats:
Hp:9/9
AC: 15 [touch 12,ff 12]

inspiration: 2/2
levitate: 4/50

[Sallera]

Karma, Round 5

Move: To B15.
Standard: Fire at this.
Attack: [roll0]
Damage: [roll1]
Move (extra): To D15.

Stats:HP 5/5, AC19 (15, 14)
Active effects: Scales of the Lizard 7 rounds
Spells:
0th:
Detect Magic
Detect Magic
Detect Magic
1st:
Shield
Scales of the Lizard
Done.

[jvluso]

miss

this - round 5

assuming everything is legal:

move: move to F12
standard: ready an action:
If karma moves adjacent to a panel, ends in a shootable place, or leaves a shotable place, shoot

turn done.

stats:
Hp:9/9
AC: 15 [touch 12,ff 12]

inspiration: 2/2
levitate: 5/50

[Sallera]

Karma, Round 6

Move: To I15.
Move: Reload.

Stats:HP 5/5, AC19 (15, 14)
Active effects: Scales of the Lizard 6 rounds
Spells:
0th:
Detect Magic
Detect Magic
Detect Magic
1st:
Shield
Scales of the Lizard
Done.

[jvluso]

Your sheet appears to not be working

this - round 6

assuming everything is legal:

standard: ready an action:
If karma moves adjacent to a panel, ends in a shootable place, or leaves a shotable place, shoot

turn done.

stats:
Hp:9/9
AC: 15 [touch 12,ff 12]

inspiration: 2/2
levitate: 6/50

[Sallera]

Yeah, seems Tangled Web's having some issues at the moment. Probably just a PHP error somewhere.

(You do realize saying "assuming everything is legal" is pointless and redundant, right?)

Karma, Round 7

5ft step to H15.
Standard: Fire at the G13/14 pane.
Attack: [roll0]
Damage: [roll1]
Move: Reload.

Stats:HP 5/5, AC19 (15, 14)
Active effects: Scales of the Lizard 5 rounds
Spells:
0th:
Detect Magic
Detect Magic
Detect Magic
1st:
Shield
Scales of the Lizard
Done.

[Sallera]

Heh, of course I get those rolls when shooting the inanimate object. That brings the pane down; I assume that triggers your readied?

[jvluso]

It's not redundant; I started adding it to all rounds after watching a match where someone cast a spell with the target out of range (3d distance confusion.) It was ruled that the targeting was illegal, but the casting wasn't, so the spell was wasted. If they had said at the beginning, 'assuming everything is legal,' the entire turn would be rewound so that he could change where he moved to, rather than just the targeting. It hasn't come up yet, but if it does, I will be glad to have had it.

Ending her turn does trigger the readied action, so he shoots a standard arrow.
attack - [roll0]
If it hits, he will spend a point of inspiration on the damage (if it misses he won't)
damage - [roll1]

this - round 7

assuming everything is legal, and the readied arrow misses:

move: move to H12
standard: ready an action:
If karma moves adjacent to a panel, ends in a shootable place, or leaves a shotable place, shoot

turn done.

stats:
Hp:9/9
AC: 15 [touch 12,ff 12]

inspiration: 2/2
levitate: 7/50

[Sallera]

No, it wouldn't have helped even in that situation; the targeting wasn't illegal, the spell was just out of range. An illegal action is rewound by default; an idiot moment is the player's responsibility.

Karma, Round 8

Standard: Total Defense.
Move: To G14->J14->J13 (current elevation +5 from base).

Stats:HP 5/5, AC19 (15, 14)
Active effects: Scales of the Lizard 5 rounds
Spells:
0th:
Detect Magic
Detect Magic
Detect Magic
1st:
Shield
Scales of the Lizard
Done.

[jvluso]

Entering G14 triggers his readies action, and he shoots the upper glass of G13/14 (assuming that is considered adjacent to G14+0) using Iaijutsu focus, and a serpentstoung arrow
Iaijutsu focus - [roll0]
attack - [roll1]
damage [roll2]
Iaijutsu focus damage - [roll3]

this - round 8

assuming everything is legal, and the panel is considered adjacent:

move: move to H12+15
standard: shoot the upper glass of I13/14 using Iaijutsu focus, and a serpentstoung arrow
Iaijutsu focus - [roll4]
attack - [roll5]
damage [roll6]
Iaijutsu focus damage - [roll7]

turn done.

stats:
Hp:9/9
AC: 15 [touch 12,ff 12]

inspiration: 2/2
levitate: 8/50

[Sallera]

Well, time to see how many of my assumptions were false.

I'm away from my books right now, but doesn't Iaijutsu Focus apply only in the round you draw the weapon? The name would seem to imply so. (Not that it matters when you're only breaking glass, but just for future reference.)

The panels are considered adjacent only to the two squares next to them, not all six; Scorer confirmed that at some point.

As for the first shot, I was under the impression that breaking a section of the wall affected both the upper and lower squares, but I could well be misremembering. Do you have precedent for that, or should I get Scorer to clarify his intention?

And finally, just speculation, but unless you just got lucky and changed your readied the round before I moved, don't we have precedent that the target of an attack, unlike a spell, must be specified in a readied action (either as part of the condition (e.g. first person seen), or explicitly?) I don't think you can have separate readied actions to attack Karma and the wall under different conditions.

[TheFallenOne]

Wait a second, how did a Iaijutsu Focus character get approved? Oriental Adventures is 3.0.

[Sallera]

Don't ask me, I haven't done a sheet check in several months. :smallredface: I was wondering about that too, but since I couldn't confirm the source, I didn't mention it. The readied action question is more important anyway.

[TheFallenOne]

You are right about the readied, the target has to be clear(i.e. when the trigger condition is met, there can be no ambiguity. So 'attack closest enemy if' is legal although there are several potential targets at the time of readying since when it is actually triggered there is no choice left whom to attack).

So jvluso, your readied has to specify who or what to shoot. Though the more important thing now is the sheet mistake which needs to be fixed before continueing.

[jvluso]

I thought OA had been updated, but I guess not. The ranks will be redistributed to handle animal and tumble.

What squares are considered adjacent to the glass, and are the panes 5 feet tall? Preferably with precedent.

refs:
Which of these readied actions would be OK:
1. If Karma moves adjacent to a panel, shoot it using Iaijutsu focus and a serpentstongue arrow.

2. If Karma moves adjacent to a panel, or ends in a shootable place, shoot.

3. If Karma moves adjacent to a panel, or ends in a shootable place, shoot the panel.

4. If Karma moves adjacent to a panel, or ends in a shootable place, ready an action.

The readied action rules are here (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/specialInitiativeActions.htm#ready).

[Psionic Dog]

Pretty sure glass wall segments are 5ft wide, 10ft tall. I'll look for explicit precedent.

@jvluso
Triggers:
Valid

Actions:
1) Valid. 'It' clearly refers to the panel Karma is adjacent to. No ambiguity.

2) Invalid. 'Shoot' is open ended with no target, and could be interpreted differently.

3) Valid. People have used 'Shoot X' time after time. Note that if no ammunition is specified for a bow your default amo-choice is assumed, typically a standard arrow.

4) Invalid. Like specifying a target you would need to specify what action/trigger is getting readied.

As a rule of thumb, any action that allows alternative variations of an action to be taken is too ambitious.
Exception: Precedent allows 'move' as a valid action without giving a where.

[Scorer]

@whoever has to read the ruling


The adjacent glass is only 5ft, lets say:

if a glass segment is between A1,A2 only those 2 squares are affected by shattered glass.

So it only affect 2 squares. diagonal does not count.

I did it thiss way thinking on the "verticalness" of the pane.

If you guys need futher clarification on the map, dont hestitate to PM me :smallsmile:

[jvluso]

We rewind back to round three, but nothing visibly changes until round 7, assuming you don't change your actions.

All the illegal readied actions are changed to the following:
If Karma moves adjacent to a panel, shoot it using a serpentstongue arrow.

This's readied action does not trigger at the end of Karma's turn.

Next time a ref is here:
Another one I thought of, and am unsure about: Ready an action that when an enemy or object becomes adjacent to an enemy or looses cover, shoot it.

this - round 7

assuming everything is legal:

move: move to E12
standard: ready an action:
If Karma moves adjacent to a panel, shoot it using a serpentstongue arrow.

turn done.

stats:
Hp:9/9
AC: 15 [touch 12,ff 12]

inspiration: 2/2
levitate: 7/50

[Sallera]

Assuming we're agreed that the panels break to the full height, and nothing remains in G13/14 to break...

Karma, Round 8

Move: To G14.
Free: Drop prone.
Standard: Shoot this.
Attack: [roll0]
Damage: [roll1]

Stats:HP 5/5, AC19 (15, 14)
Active effects: Scales of the Lizard 5 rounds
Spells:
0th:
Detect Magic
Detect Magic
Detect Magic
1st:
Shield
Scales of the Lizard
Done.

[jvluso]

hit

The panels only affect the adjacent two squares, so breaking the upper panel would only affect G13+5/G12+5

this - round 8

assuming everything is legal:

move: move to G13
standard: attack Karma with armor spikes spending inspiration on the attack and damage (if it hits)
attack - [roll0]
damage - [roll1]

turn done.

stats:
Hp:1/9
AC: 15 [touch 12,ff 12]

inspiration: 0-1/2
levitate: 8/50

[Sallera]

I'll let it slide this time, I suppose, since it's unlikely to affect the eventual outcome of the match, but you don't have any armour spikes listed (hence why I went prone). On further inspection, I can see that they're in the purchase log, but they need to be visible on the actual sheet as well.

Karma, Round 9

Free: Crossbow to mouth.
Move: Draw morningstar, two-handed grip.
Standard: Attack this.
Attack: [roll0]
Damage: [roll1]

Stats:HP 5/5, AC19 (15, 14)
Active effects: Scales of the Lizard 4 rounds
Spells:
0th:
Detect Magic
Detect Magic
Detect Magic
1st:
Shield
Scales of the Lizard
Done.

[Sallera]

Actually, on further further inspection, armour spikes cost 50g, and studded leather 25g. How did you afford them?

And you don't have your other items listed on your sheet either (tools, arrows, quarterstaff.) I don't know how you made it past sheet checks.

[jvluso]

I crafted the armor, rather than buying it, but that would still cost 37.5, not 17.5. This stuff should have been caught during sheet checks, and I'm not sure what to do. Do you have any suggestions?

[Sallera]

Well, since you can't afford the spikes and they weren't listed on your sheet anyway, how about you just drop those and rewind to the start of your Round 8 turn?

[jvluso]

That's reasonable

this - round 8

assuming everything is legal:

free - bow to mouth
move - draw quarterstaff
move: move to G13

turn done.

stats:
Hp:1/9
AC: 15 [touch 12,ff 12]

inspiration: 2/2
levitate: 8/50

[Sallera]

Karma, Round 9

Standard: Total Defense.
Free: Crossbow to mouth.
Move: Draw morningstar, two-handed grip.

Stats:HP 5/5, AC19 (15, 14)
Active effects: Scales of the Lizard 4 rounds
Spells:
0th:
Detect Magic
Detect Magic
Detect Magic
1st:
Shield
Scales of the Lizard
Done.

[jvluso]

this - round 9

assuming everything is legal:

attack with quarterstaff, spending a point of inspiration on damage if it hits.
attack - [roll0]
damage - [roll1]

turn done.

stats:
Hp:1/9
AC: 15 [touch 12,ff 12]

inspiration: 2/2
levitate: 9/50

[Sallera]

Karma, Round 10

Standard: Attack this.
Attack: [roll0]
Damage: [roll1]

Not done.

[Sallera]

Stats:HP 5/5, AC19 (15, 14)
Active effects: Scales of the Lizard 2 rounds
Spells:
0th:
Detect Magic
Detect Magic
Detect Magic
1st:
Shield
Scales of the Lizard

Done.

[jvluso]

hit

this - round 10

assuming everything is legal:

attack with quarterstaff, spending a point of inspiration on attack and damage if it hits.
attack - [roll0]
damage - [roll1]

turn done.

stats:
Hp:-3/9
AC: 15 [touch 12,ff 12]

inspiration: 1/2
levitate: 10/50

[Sallera]

No luck.

Karma, Round 11

Standard: Attack this.
Attack: [roll0]
Damage: [roll1]

Stats:HP 5/5, AC19 (15, 14)
Active effects: Scales of the Lizard 1 round
Spells:
0th:
Detect Magic
Detect Magic
Detect Magic
1st:
Shield
Scales of the Lizard
Done.

[jvluso]

miss

this - round 11

assuming everything is legal:

attack with quarterstaff, spending a point of inspiration on damage if it hits.
attack - [roll0]
damage - [roll1]

turn done.

stats:
Hp:-3/9
AC: 15 [touch 12,ff 12]

inspiration: 1/2
levitate: 11/50

[Sallera]

Ah, that's probably match. You take 3 damage from recoil, but that's not enough, and Karma starts fast-healing, but you still get one round to CdG.

[jvluso]

coup de gras damage - [roll0]

Good match. Sorry about all the mistakes on the sheet.

[Psionic Dog]

Master Ref PsiDog


Thwackity Thwack: This hits hardest!