Sniper [PF]

[ExemplarofAvg]

So one of my fellow players has taken a liking to one of my DMPC's. In the manner that they like what I did to make it, basically I mucked around with the Sniper Archetype with an idea from the Knife Master.

Rough Summary:
Standard Sniper ACF's
Refluffed "Sneak Stab" with the exception that instead of dagger type weapons it's ranged weapons to get the 1d8 rather than the 1d4.
I was thinking of adjusting the range as well. My DMPC Lylock Wirty, better known as "Phoenix-Eye" in his current incarnation used the PF Item: Sniper's Goggles (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/wondrous-items/wondrous-items/e-g/goggles-sniper-goggles) to negate the 30ft distance issue but my friend will be seriously hindered until the point at which they can afford them. Deadly Range helps a little bit (30-40-50-60-70-80ft by Lvl 18) but if I bump the range to 60 then it's (60-110ft by 18).

Barring all of this anyways to convince them that this character build is something that does not truly suit the direct combat as well as he would like. The long ranged assassin requires range and set-up. both of which a PC will not encounter often, and if so not for long.

[grarrrg]

So one of my fellow players has taken a liking to one of my DMPC's. In the manner that they like what I did to make it, basically I mucked around with the Sniper Archetype with an idea from the Knife Master....

Barring all of this anyways to convince them that this character build is something that does not truly suit the direct combat as well as he would like. The long ranged assassin requires range and set-up. both of which a PC will not encounter often, and if so not for long.

This partly depends on level, but make him a Scout (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/rogue/archetypes/paizo---rogue-archetypes/scout) Rogue as well (stacks with Sniper), at 8th level, as long as the Rogue moves 10+ft. in a Round, they get guaranteed Sneak Attack damage.
Granted, this limits them to 1 attack per round, but 1 attack WITH Sneak damage every round is probably better than 1 round with Sneak damage and every following round without.

[Chained Birds]

Couldn't the Vital Strike chain help out with a Rogue (Scout/Sniper) in regards to moving and shooting. You'll be dealing more base damage this way with your 1 attack per round + sneak attack. Though going full rogue has you waiting til at least level 8 to start the chain...

Just my 2 copper.

[Bhaakon]

You can also use shatter defenses to get multiple sneak attacks per round, but it's rather feat intensive (particularly if he's already going after the archery feats). That particular feat chain synergizes extremely well with the rake archetype.

[ExemplarofAvg]

The question lies more in "would changing the range help him" and reasons to convince him that the sit a mile away from your target and wait for the perfect shot might not sit well with his party.

[Cieyrin]

The question lies more in "would changing the range help him" and reasons to convince him that the sit a mile away from your target and wait for the perfect shot might not sit well with his party.

60' is the max range of most engagements, so it becomes one less thing to worry about to get your sneak attack, which is harder to achieve at range unless you get the hiding part of sniping working or unlock flat-footed in a different matter, like Shatter Defenses or Scout. Scout actually works fairly well, in negating the increasing sniping penalty via changing hiding places. But basically, yes, just making it a flat 60' would improve it.

[Chained Birds]

60' is the max range of most engagements, so it becomes one less thing to worry about to get your sneak attack, which is harder to achieve at range unless you get the hiding part of sniping working or unlock flat-footed in a different matter, like Shatter Defenses or Scout. Scout actually works fairly well, in negating the increasing sniping penalty via changing hiding places. But basically, yes, just making it a flat 60' would improve it.

Agreed. I see no real problems with letting the rogue due his/her job away from melee combat range. Though Scout would probably be best for him/her regardless of range in case an enemy starts getting annoyed and fans his minions around to weed the sniper out.
A good sniper knows when to move from his current position even if that place was very good. If you are familiar with the anime Golgo 13, think like Golgo and move around a bit if needed.

[ExemplarofAvg]

Kind of branching off a little here, my friend wants to build very closely to the original Phoenix-Eye but some items aren't so transferable. Now I was fine with it and looked at it as a chance to show a Phoenix-Eye from another dimension, he is not so content.

Original Phoenix-Eye
-Fighter (Thug Variant)
-Knowledge Devotion+Education to get bonuses to hit and damage
-All Knowledge skills.
-Crimson Coat of Ilpharzz
Flaming Burst Distance Greatcrossbow
Gnome Crossbow Sight, Bayonet (Exists in PFSRD)
*Flame Tongue (Exists in PFSRD)

He wants that variation, turns out I was confused as I had recreated the character in Pathfinder
Sniper Rogue
Heavy Distance Flaming Burst Crossbow
Alchemist Bolts (Fire)
Sniper's Goggles

So the items in Bold are what I'm looking to recreate to ease my DM and my friend into managing this. Any help or input you can give would be greatly appreciated.

[Cieyrin]

Of the bolded sections, the Crimson Coat is the one unfamiliar to me. Source?

As for Thug, is it just the increased skill points or is it the combo of Sneak Attack + full BAB? For skill points, there are a couple fighter archetypes (Lorewarden and Tactician come to mind) that give 4+int skill points at the cost of the first bonus feat like Thug fighter does. If the second...it doesn't exist currently, as the only other sneak attack source is Vivisectionist, an Alchemist archetype that still has 3/4 BAB. You can emulate it by mixing Fighter and Rogue levels or going for the Swashbuckler archetype of Rogue but that's as close as you get.

For Knowledge Devotion's niche, Deadly Aim fills that niche in completely as the ranged Power Attack. I mean, you get less accurate, since it's a Power Attack mechanic, but it naturally scales with your BAB in PF, so you shouldn't be overwhelmed.

For the Crossbow and sight, that's pretty much covered by firearms in PF, especially the Musket (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/equipment---final/weapons/weapon-descriptions/musket) plus the Far-Reaching Sight (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/equipment---final/firearms#TOC-Far-Reaching-Sight). Combine with Sniper Goggles and you have the same niche. You probably want to go Musket Master Gunslinger and pursue the Grit talent if you want to push that majorly.

[grarrrg]

If the second...it doesn't exist currently, as the only other sneak attack source is Vivisectionist, an Alchemist archetype that still has 3/4 BAB. You can emulate it by mixing Fighter and Rogue levels or going for the Swashbuckler archetype of Rogue but that's as close as you get.

PrC's are your only option for Full Bab + Sneak, but there aren't a lot of options there either.
I don't think any will work for the concept, 1 only works with Slashing Weapons and Whips, another only works with Light or One-Handed weapons, and the third has VERY slow Sneak progression.

But for the sake of completeness:

Duelist (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/prestige-classes/core-rulebook/duelist), earliest entry is level 7, requires 3 feats, 1 point of precision damage per level, probably doesn't work with Ranged weapons.

Low Templar (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/prestige-classes/other-paizo/i-m/low-templar), earliest entry is level 6, requires Mounted Combat and Weapon Focus, 2 skills at 5 ranks each. Gains +1d6 precision damage at levels 3 and 8.

Pain Taster (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/prestige-classes/other-paizo/n-r/pain-taster), earliest entry is level 7 (but delaying is highly recommended), requires 3 feats, 5 ranks in Intimidate, and you either have to make a 15DC Fort save or a 20DC Will save. +1d6 precision at 2 and 4, only works with Slashing weapons and Whips.

[ExemplarofAvg]

Of the bolded sections, the Crimson Coat is the one unfamiliar to me. Source?

As for Thug, is it just the increased skill points or is it the combo of Sneak Attack + full BAB? For skill points, there are a couple fighter archetypes (Lorewarden and Tactician come to mind) that give 4+int skill points at the cost of the first bonus feat like Thug fighter does. If the second...it doesn't exist currently, as the only other sneak attack source is Vivisectionist, an Alchemist archetype that still has 3/4 BAB. You can emulate it by mixing Fighter and Rogue levels or going for the Swashbuckler archetype of Rogue but that's as close as you get.

For Knowledge Devotion's niche, Deadly Aim fills that niche in completely as the ranged Power Attack. I mean, you get less accurate, since it's a Power Attack mechanic, but it naturally scales with your BAB in PF, so you shouldn't be overwhelmed.

For the Crossbow and sight, that's pretty much covered by firearms in PF, especially the Musket (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/equipment---final/weapons/weapon-descriptions/musket) plus the Far-Reaching Sight (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/equipment---final/firearms#TOC-Far-Reaching-Sight). Combine with Sniper Goggles and you have the same niche. You probably want to go Musket Master Gunslinger and pursue the Grit talent if you want to push that majorly.

The Crimson Coat is found in the Complete Arcane and can be found here (http://www.imarvintpa.com/dndlive/items.php?ID=2154)

He's decided to go for Gunslinger (so Guns, not Crossbows apparently) so he can get the sight. If those feats work then that is wonderful thank you. So he's less Phoenix-Eye and more Deadshot, but oh well.

His character will look like such
Gunslinger
Rifle (I guess he either got the DM approval, or he doesn't plan to tell him.)
with the Far-Reaching Sight and Deadly Aim.
Also he has decided to dual-wield pistols (or revolvers at close range, rather than use the sword, also he might not use the armor)

So I guess he wanted a character like him, but nothing at all like him at the same time.