Alchemist Build Advice

[Vattic]

Can anyone recommend a fun and useful/effective alchemist build combining chirurgeon and vivisectionist?

I've asked for build advice before, and this forum never disappoints. I'm open to just about any build, but I'd like to stick with human for race unless there is some sort of uber compelling reason not to.

I'm just so unfamiliar with the alchemist class that I'm at a loss when it comes to knowing what to progress here. Feats and such are of particular importance to me.

Any help would be greatly appreciated!

[Vattic]

sorry, i forgot to mention that the system is Pathfinder, and I'm hoping for starting build and a general idea of how to take it to 20 if the game goes on that long. i'm going to try to put together something and post it later, but it will most probably be terrible due to the fact that i am super new to playing the alchemist.

thanks guys!

[Deadlights]

Not sure what feat you'd take at level 1 but once you hit level 2 and onwards, you have no real reason to take any feat except Extra Discovery most of the time.

As for which discoveries, it really depends on what kind of alchemist you want to play.

[Vattic]

As for which discoveries, it really depends on what kind of alchemist you want to play.

healing and stabby?

[Thumperganker]

There is a feat called Mad Alchemist i believe that allows you to interrupt spell casters and a few other things (three total from the one feat) I believe its in DMG2 but not 100 percent on that

[Zombulian]

There is a feat called Mad Alchemist i believe that allows you to interrupt spell casters and a few other things (three total from the one feat) I believe its in DMG2 but not 100 percent on that

It is a tactical feat from the PHB2. My current character is using it :smallbiggrin:

[grarrrg]

Not sure what feat you'd take at level 1 but once you hit level 2 and onwards, you have no real reason to take any feat except Extra Discovery most of the time.

Except for the fact that 2/3rd of all Discoveries are "Bomb" related, and Bombs gets traded away with Vivisectionist.


For your purposes, play it like a cross between a Rogue and a Wizard.
I'd recommend going Dex/Int heavy, grabbing Two-Weapon Fighting and Weapon Finesse, and using Agile (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/magic-weapons) Weapons.
Use your Mutagen to boost your Dex and you're set for the "combat" aspect of things.

And you may as well grab the Bleeding Strike Rogue Talent you can get from Vivisectionist.

Growing a Vestigial Arm (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/alchemist/discoveries/paizo---alchemist-discoveries/vestigial-arm-ex) will help if you do go the Two-Weapon route, as you'll still have a free hand to make/throw/drink your extracts with.

Mummification (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/alchemist/discoveries/paizo---alchemist-discoveries/mummification-ex) is also nice for the variety of Immunities you can pick up

The main benefits of Chirurgeon are Infused Curative, which can be replicated through the "Infusion" Discovery, and adding Breath of Life to your list of Extracts, which is a notable loss, but ideally, no one should be dying anyway. (Skill focus Healing is 'meh').

You could swap it out for Internal Alchemist, which gives you a list of Feats you can take instead of Discoveries. It also gives you a bonus to Save vs. Diseases, and Uncanny Dodge.

[Vattic]

Except for the fact that 2/3rd of all Discoveries are "Bomb" related, and Bombs gets traded away with Vivisectionist.

so what's a good solution for someone like me who wants to focus on healing friends and dealing insane damage to single enemies?

[Corlindale]

Alchemists will never be great at in-combat healing, because your buddies will have to spend precious actions to activate your heals, usually.

As for single-target damage you're in luck, though. With Feral Mutagen you can potentially get 3 sneak attacks/round at level 2. You basically want to focus on stuff that helps facilitate your sneak attacks, either by getting more attacks/round or making it easier to set them up.

Shatter Defenses coupled with a way to render enemies Shaken (Dazzling Display, Gory Finish, etc...) is pretty cool for making enemies flat-footed.

If you're not married to the idea of Chirurgeon (which isn't that good - it's main thing can be copied by taking the Infusion discovery, which you may be likely to take anyway), combining Vivisectionist with Beastmorph is an amazingly powerful option. Eventually it will get you Pounce whenever you're in mutagen state, among many other cool powers.

[Vattic]

If you're not married to the idea of Chirurgeon (which isn't that good - it's main thing can be copied by taking the Infusion discovery, which you may be likely to take anyway), combining Vivisectionist with Beastmorph is an amazingly powerful option. Eventually it will get you Pounce whenever you're in mutagen state, among many other cool powers.
i do like that chirurgeon lets me swap cure extracts for other ones, but i'm not sure how much that ability is worth. i guess its versatility depends on how quickly you can prepare the new extracts. the reason i like the chirurgeon is because i dig the creepy doctor/combat medic angle. i suppose i could fluff it, but it seems like feral mutagen werewolf alchemist is a bit far from my original concept.

i'm shooting for a more sinister/capable simon tam from firefly. brilliant doctor who is a bit of an eccentric who has been forced into life on the edge with a bunch of unsavory mercenaries. can stitch you up, or cut you open, your choice.

i'm ok with it being sub optimal, i just want to be able to contribute while sticking to the core concept.

giving up poison use is pretty crappy though, maybe with the playground's help i can come up with a better solution..

[Larpus]

As mentioned, Chirurgeon is not that great, the extra spells are cool, but not that great and the fluff is also not all that impressive, since you don't really gain anything that you wouldn't be able to get otherwise, so the fluff isn't really there.

From an opmizer's standpoint, Beastmorph is indeed the best option, I mean, Darkvision, Fly, Pounce and Trip for pretty much free? Sign me in! Though yeah, I can see how the fluff might not appeal to everyone's concept.

That said, Oenopion Researcher (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/alchemist/archetypes/paizo---alchemist-archetypes/oenopion-researcher) is also pretty for some extra crazy docter points by being able to share the mutagen.

It might even be worthy to leave the class as it is and make some use out of poisons, with your bonuses to Craft (Alchemy) and the Sticky Poison discovery, their overall useability increases quite a bit by being cheaper, easier to do, faster to apply and lasting longer. Even if your DM doesn't allow you to poison your fangs, you can still get a decent use out of them when not mutated or by applying it to others' weapons as even Sticky Poison doesn't say it must be the Alchemist's weapon, and considering it's a physical effect, rather than a magical one, there is really no reason why it needs to be.

But stay as far as possible from Rage Chemist, it's a trap.