Duskblade Gestalt Advice

[NeoSeraphi]

So the duskblade and the warblade seem like a match made in heaven when it comes to Gestalt. You pretty much only need Str, Con and Int, and Int is really a tertiary score for both classes, seeing as the duskblade doesn't really use spells that allow a saving throw.

The duskblade gives the warblade a ton of extra damage, as well as the Arcane Strike and Knowledge Devotion feats, which allow for a good deal of accuracy, while the warblade gives the duskblade a continuous source of bonus damage (allowing him to save Arcane Channeling for BBEGs and lieutenants), higher hit points, and extra skill points, allowing you to cap on your knowledges more easily and pick other skills as well.

I'm playing a gestalt solo game here pretty soon and, as it's going to most likely be combat-heavy, I was thinking about this class setup for my character (No matter what I choose, my character has to be somewhat martial in order to fit the premise of the game).

So, what do you guys think? Any advice for a build like this? The two classes aren't set in stone, and I know a wizard would probably be better than a duskblade, but wizards just don't blend melee and magic as seamlessly as duskblades do, at least not without some serious Quicken shenanigans. I want to be casting relevant spells in melee, I don't want to just walk into battle with a bunch of buffs and be invincible while I Greater Insightful Strike everything to death. (If you guys still think a wizard would be appropriate here, I'll hear your argument and consider it).

Any suggestions for a prestige class, by the way? With the intended build, I think duskblade is pretty inescapable, since you don't get Greater Arcane Channeling until 13th anyway, but warblade is a pretty dippable class.


Okay, so after all that build up, I realized that I was being stupid and warblade doesn't get to strike while I Channel. So I'm going to go a different direction with this character and drop warblade, and pick another class for that side that might be less martial and more skillful (not a rogue).

Suggestions? What other class has some pretty good Str/Con/Int synergy but more passive abilities and better skill points for me to take advantage of?

[DeAnno]

Arcane Channeling is nice because it doesn't take a swift action, so you can recover maneuvers while using it. You have Fort and Will and a bit of Reflex, since you'll get your Int to it from Warblade, along with the d12. Your skill situation is a little depressing, but at least Warblades are 4+ with a decent list.

All and all it seems serviceable to me, though it has the significant Gestalt disfunction of not having either side being T2 or T1.

[Kuulvheysoon]

The action economy might sink you - although refreshing your maneuvers is a swift action, initiating them isn't. So every given round you'd have to choose between either a maneuver or a spell.

...actually, if you nabbed Versatile Spellcaster and only cast spells at the highest level possible, that might not be too bad.

[Randomguy]

A solo game, you say? If it starts at low levels, then you'll need a way to get healing. If it's at higher levels, just get a few belts of healing.

I recommend Jade pheonix mage on the warblade side. Duskblades mostly use damage dealing spells, and JPM gets you metamagic feats that you can't normally use. It meshes very well with duskblade. You also get a better version of arcane strike.

A level of dragonfire adept gets you that invocation that gives you +6 to knowledge skills, but it doesn't fit very well with the theme. Unless of course you choose to make your character dragon themed, in which case I guess you could take a level of dragon shaman or the dragon lord PrC for that healing aura, to keep you at half health.

You could take the smiting spell metamagic feat in PHB2. Cast a spell into your weapon and deliver it with a maneuver the next round.

[NeoSeraphi]

The action economy might sink you - although refreshing your maneuvers is a swift action, initiating them isn't. So every given round you'd have to choose between either a maneuver or a spell.

...actually, if you nabbed Versatile Spellcaster and only cast spells at the highest level possible, that might not be too bad.

Argh, damn you're right. Unless I can get my DM to rule Arcane Channeling can function off the same standard action as a maneuver...he might go for that.


A solo game, you say? If it starts at low levels, then you'll need a way to get healing. If it's at higher levels, just get a few belts of healing.

I recommend Jade pheonix mage on the warblade side. Duskblades mostly use damage dealing spells, and JPM gets you metamagic feats that you can't normally use. It meshes very well with duskblade. You also get a better version of arcane strike.

A level of dragonfire adept gets you that invocation that gives you +6 to knowledge skills, but it doesn't fit very well with the theme. Unless of course you choose to make your character dragon themed, in which case I guess you could take a level of dragon shaman or the dragon lord PrC for that healing aura, to keep you at half health.

Jade Phoenix Mage is a dual-progression PrC, which are pretty banned and frowned upon in Gestalt, and I'm not going to push that any.

And yes, dragonfire adept would be pretty inappropriate in my build. We're starting at level 7. Just two levels until I can start dishing out vampiric touch.

[DeAnno]

The action economy might sink you - although refreshing your maneuvers is a swift action, initiating them isn't. So every given round you'd have to choose between either a maneuver or a spell.

...actually, if you nabbed Versatile Spellcaster and only cast spells at the highest level possible, that might not be too bad.

I think the best idea (by RAW) is to alternate your best maneuver + Arcane Strike/Boost with Arcane Channeling + recovery. That way at least your spells last twice as long and your strikes are better on average.

[NeoSeraphi]

Alright, new plan. Since I can't efficiently combine active abilities with these two classes, I should probably just drop warblade entirely and find a different class that will also mesh well with my duskblade. Any ideas? I'd prefer something that wasn't a caster.

[deuxhero]

Duskblade//Dread Necromancer 20

You'd think it would make you really MAD, but you can ignore int and just channel DN spells, they get a lot of touch stuff. You can heal yourself an unlimited ammount of times.

It's best to jump out of Duskblade as soon as you can channel (it doesn't require it be Duskblade spells) which was either 3 or 6. Your options after could be Hexblade (Dark Companion ACF) 4/Paladin of Tyranny 4/Blackguard 3 or 4 combo for -6 to enemy saves, poison use (which CAN be used with channel), Charisma to saves 3 times, turning (Divine Metamagic?), and a companion if you took Blackguard 4 (give it Hidden Talent: Psionic Minor Creation and make lots of Black Lotus extract for your poison use).


Not a caster? Warblade (or Duskblade) 20/Factotum 20 is solid, SAD and brings you extra actions, always good in a solo campaign.

[Kuulvheysoon]

Alright, new plan. Since I can't efficiently combine active abilities with these two classes, I should probably just drop warblade entirely and find a different class that will also mesh well with my duskblade. Any ideas? I'd prefer something that wasn't a caster.

Totemist? Combine an absolutely monstrous amount of attacks with Arcane Channeling... Actually, that'd work better as Warblade//Totemist.

Skill-wise, Incarnates always make a good 'second' class for gestalt if you're looking for skill monkey-ing.

[NeoSeraphi]

Not a caster? Warblade (or Duskblade) 20/Factotum 20 is solid, SAD and brings you extra actions, always good in a solo campaign.

I considered that. Alas, I do not have the Dungeonscape book.


Totemist? Combine an absolutely monstrous amount of attacks with Arcane Channeling... Actually, that'd work better as Warblade//Totemist.

Skill-wise, Incarnates always make a good 'second' class for gestalt if you're looking for skill monkey-ing.

Totemist won't work that well. I must use a scythe. It's a style choice for this character. :smallamused:

Incarnate, you say? I must admit, that was not something I had considered. I'll look into it.

[Randomguy]

I second duskblade//factotum. Psychic rogue could also work.

You could prestige into Dragon disciple on the non-dusblade side, if you do decide to make a dragon based character. It's not optimal, but it's flavourful, and it gets you extra hit points, extra spell slots, natural weapons, flight, ability score increases, so on. Not very skill based, though. Also, with the dragon breath feat (races of the dragon) you can breath weapon once every 1d4 rounds, instead of once per day.
With the int to trip checks from factotum combined with the entangling exhalation feat, you could do some decent battlefield control.

[Talionis]

Archivist let's you cast any Divine Spell and has a knowledge focus. It's from Heroes of Horror. I'd do twenty of it. But I usually jump out of Duskblade at 3, 5, or 13. For the other 7, I'd think about enlightened fist for the ability yo change rays into touch spells. Not sure if Monk counts as dual progression prestige.


For versatility of spells Chameleon is a favorite of mine, but I haven't played it in Gestalt.

[NeoSeraphi]

Archivist let's you cast any Divine Spell and has a knowledge focus. It's from Heroes of Horror. I'd do twenty of it. But I usually jump out of Duskblade at 3, 5, or 13. For the other 7, I'd think about enlightened fist for the ability yo change rays into touch spells. Not sure if Monk counts as dual progression prestige.


I don't think that will work. The storyline is about an apprentice who rebels against his master and starts a revolution against a kingdom. Pretty sure I'm not allowed to be Lawful.



For versatility of spells Chameleon is a favorite of mine, but I haven't played it in Gestalt.

A chameleon! Another excellent choice. I'll reread the class and see if I think it will fit. Thank you.

[Godskook]

Once you hit 13, classes that add additional attacks work really well with with Duskblade. Before that, mobilitily, carrier damage or feats would work well. And sadly, Duskblade doesn't synergize with pouncing, which means a cleric dip and psionics are your go-to options for full-attack enablers.

Psion/Totemist into Soul Manifester is a fairly good option.

[Elric VIII]

Okay, so this may sound completely off from what you originally wanted, but Cloistered Cleric/Ordained Champion//Warblade can get you move-action (so you can initiate at the same time) spell storing and the Divine Magician ACF gets you the awsome Vampiric Touch. You can even get by with 12-14 Wis if you want to metamagic your low level spells into higher slots (reducing MAD); Quicken is your friend, here.

If you're willing to grab a mount, you can use your move action to store a spell, your mount's move to get into position, and your standard action to initiate a maneuver and discharge the spell.

Nevermind this, for some reason I thought you wanted to keep the Warblade side, not the Duskblade.

[Thrawn183]

Might I suggest swordsage? You've got BAB, this will get you some saves, skills and lots of swift/immediate action maneuvers.

[Darth Stabber]

Archivist, all sorts of archivist. Channel Harm to the face FTW. It's divine so you don't lose your armor, and they have access to a rediculous number of different spells, many of which are good for channeling, and you have the best buffs before combat.

Aside from that any of the passive classes:
Any Incarnum (soulborn sucks, but assuming a resonable CON the other two work well)
Monk (though you're not lawful)
Dragon shaman (especially with the ACF from dragon magic {which let's you trade extraneous auras for invocations}, and unlike DFA you qualify for metabreath feats)
Warlock (if you pick mostly all day invocations and either eldritch glaive or eldritch claws)
Binder (a lot like incarnum only less granular)

Actually I need to get to work on the gestalt handbook I've been putting off. But this passive half theory is a big part of it.

[deuxhero]

Warblade 20//Psion 20

You aren't a "caster"...

[NeoSeraphi]

Might I suggest swordsage? You've got BAB, this will get you some saves, skills and lots of swift/immediate action maneuvers.

The main problem with swordsage is that it still leaves me with a d8 HD in a solo game...


Warblade 20//Psion 20

You aren't a "caster"...

I want duskblade for the asthetics of it. A guy wielding an enormous scythe that is on fire or covered in electricity or sapping your soul. Priceless.


Archivist, all sorts of archivist. Channel Harm to the face FTW. It's divine so you don't lose your armor, and they have access to a rediculous number of different spells, many of which are good for channeling, and you have the best buffs before combat.

That is...certainly a possibility. Though Arcane Channeling only works on arcane spells, not divine. :smallfrown:


Right now I'm thinking about either swordsage or incarnate...

[deuxhero]

Then grab Martial Study and get some desert wind manuvers.

Duskblade//Psion isn't terrible though if the DM lets you channel psionics (Transparency, ho!)

[Darth Stabber]

That is...certainly a possibility. Though Arcane Channeling only works on arcane spells, not divine. :smallfrown:


Nope, reading the class entry right now, and there is no mention of the word arcane other than the name. It says any spell, not any arcane spell.

[DeAnno]

Swordsage will have similar issues to Warblade in action economy, except worse because you can't spam the recovery mechanic. Incarnate could work. Also, this one might sound off the wall, but what about Rogue? It has good Reflex, Sneak Attack, tons of skills, and mostly passive abilities. You would probably mash it with some other base classes/PRCs, but in general I think it gestalts with Duskblade well.

[NeoSeraphi]

Nope, reading the class entry right now, and there is no mention of the word arcane other than the name. It says any spell, not any arcane spell.

Huh. Well, that is...huh. That's one big oversight on WotC's part.

...Clerics do get an obscene amount of touch spells...Okay, that seems like a legitimately nice idea. Though, in the end, I would probably still end up using the majority of my standard actions for channeling duskblade spells. So the question becomes, is the archivist's out-of-combat usefulness (including healing) better for me, or is the swordsage's immediate action using and higher skill points/better list more useful to me?

....Hmm...The archivist would require me to actually put high points into my Int, since all those inflict spells allow saving throws. My duskblade side doesn't really benefit from a higher Int at all.

Meanwhile, swordsage offers me skill points and immediate actions, but is also primarily a Wis and Dex class, both of which I was planning to dump...



Swordsage will have similar issues to Warblade in action economy, except worse because you can't spam the recovery mechanic. Incarnate could work. Also, this one might sound off the wall, but what about Rogue? It has good Reflex, Sneak Attack, tons of skills, and mostly passive abilities. You would probably mash it with some other base classes/PRCs, but in general I think it gestalts with Duskblade well.

I don't play rogues. I hate rogues. Also, Sneak Attack is pretty useless in a solo game.

[Seatbelt]

Crusader? Slightly mad but when you run low on HP you can heal up without needing to take a break from smacking people in the face.

[NeoSeraphi]

Crusader? Slightly mad but when you run low on HP you can heal up without needing to take a break from smacking people in the face.

That's an option, yeah, but all it really gives me is d10 HD and healing, since I'm going to dump Cha and I can't cast in heavy armor. Seems like a waste of potential.

[Darth Stabber]

Huh. Well, that is...huh. That's one big oversight on WotC's part.

...Clerics do get an obscene amount of touch spells...Okay, that seems like a legitimately nice idea. Though, in the end, I would probably still end up using the majority of my standard actions for channeling duskblade spells. So the question becomes, is the archivist's out-of-combat usefulness (including healing) better for me, or is the swordsage's immediate action using and higher skill points/better list more useful to me?

....Hmm...The archivist would require me to actually put high points into my Int, since all those inflict spells allow saving throws. My duskblade side doesn't really benefit from a higher Int at all.

Meanwhile, swordsage offers me skill points and immediate actions, but is also primarily a Wis and Dex class, both of which I was planning to dump...

Duskblade gets plenty of spells that need a saving throw, and those are based on INT. And there is more to channel than inflict (contagion leaps immediately to mind).

[NeoSeraphi]

Duskblade gets plenty of spells that need a saving throw, and those are based on INT. And there is more to channel than inflict (contagion leaps immediately to mind).

Right, but not the important ones. Shocking grasp and vampiric touch don't allow saving throws at all. And I can't cast contagion, my alignment is either Neutral or Chaotic Good (Haven't decided yet). Contagion is an [Evil] spell.

Edit: Never mind, it seems that archivists get to ignore that little restriction for their spells. For some reason.

[NeoSeraphi]

Okay, yeah, Darth has convinced me. I'm going to go archivist.

[Darth Stabber]

Okay, yeah, Darth has convinced me. I'm going to go archivist.

You will not be disappointed. Just make sure you see about getting domain/druid/paladin/ranger spells, and if you're really lucky shugenja and other oddities.

[animewatcha]

I was thinking of duskblade / monk into enlightened fist to get more duskblade spells earlier ( and inventing a formula for having a duskblade spellcount/caster level of 28 at 20 ) and being able to channel disintegrate as part of full attack routine. Maybe if you can sneak it in, canny or uncanny trickster on the monk side ( can't remember name ) so can have level 20 duskblade abilities at level 18 duskblade.

[Darth Stabber]

I was thinking of duskblade / monk into enlightened fist to get more duskblade spells earlier ( and inventing a formula for having a duskblade spellcount/caster level of 28 at 20 ) and being able to channel disintegrate as part of full attack routine. Maybe if you can sneak it in, canny or uncanny trickster on the monk side ( can't remember name ) so can have level 20 duskblade abilities at level 18 duskblade.

That doesn't really work. You can't double progress a spell progression in gestalt, especially not through PRCs. In fact PRCs that increment two different class's abilities at the same time are recommended to be prohibited. And duskblade spell casting is kinda sad panda if you are relying on it for a primary caster. It's almost all blastomancy. The usual plan is to get another casting class with better spells to smack people around with, hence archivist.

[Knight13]

Seraphi, are you trying to recreate a certain Adept Rogue with Flick Reaper in D&D? :smallcool:

[NeoSeraphi]

Seraphi, are you trying to recreate a certain Adept Rogue with Flick Reaper in D&D? :smallcool:

Heh. No. If I was, I would be making a warblade//factotum who specialized in elemental evocation spells and had a high enough Wisdom score to make good use of his Divine Healing ability, as well as enough ranks in UMD to use a scroll of raise dead. Haseo doesn't channel through his scythe, he casts spells, and he casts them as a secondary thing, which is represented perfectly by the factotum's SLAs (would need to homebrew a greater hail of stones spell at some point to give him a Gan Bolg).