Lonely Tylenol
2012-04-09, 12:14 AM
Before I begin, let me preface this by saying that I've read the other two-shield threads (including the other one still active), the ones that talk about being a good "tank" and such, and mostly involve a lot of basic misunderstandings about how the game works, and devolve into Dwarven Defender vs. Stormwind Fallacy arguments. This does *not* have anything to do with the idea of "tanking", or the idea that wielding a shield somehow makes you more "threatening"; in fact, the player in question is already among the most "threatening" in the group, and that's because he's a chain-wielding Goliath Barbarian (and thus looks scary, hits hard, and makes things cry in a 20' radius circle around him). This isn't about the idea of a "tank". It's more about the idea of optimizing "rule of cool".
Also, this game has become an E6 game, complete with item restrictions based on caster level (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=235754) (and this is not the place to argue those). It also needs to be a 6-level build as a result.
The evolution of my campaign thus far has (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=226716) been (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=228912) well (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=231605)-documented (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=236752) on these forums. Right now the party stands as follows:
CN Goliath (+1) Barbarian (with PF rage powers) 3 (this is the player in question)
LE Goliath (+1) Summoner (PF) 3
LN Human Shadowcaster 4
NG Human Warblade 4
CN Grippli (PF) Spontaneous Cloistered Cleric (with the Favored Soul ACF; if that sounds complicated, it is, but basically it's a Favored Soul with Turn Undead and Domains)
LE Elf Rogue 3/Spellthief 1 (*OR* a LN Gray Elf Archivist 3)
N Elf Bard (PF version) 4
N Half-Elf Magus (PF) 4
CG Half-Elf Scout 3/Ranger 1
CG Half-Elf Swashbuckler 3/Sneak Attack Fighter 1
The story begins with the "death" of the Elf Rogue following the events in this (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=236752) thread. He went through with the plan, hiring a level 1 Shaper to cast Psionic Minor Creation on some taxine that he had bought; however, he had to cast it near the base (due to the 1-hour duration), making the mission somewhat time-sensitive. He successfully broke in with the taxine, snuck into the kitchen and poisoned the food (and a lot of the alcohol), killing eight (six soldiers, plus two of the kitchen staff who tasted the food), but in his hurry to escape, he was spotted by a man on the watchtower with a spyglass, who rallied the base, and again by a scouting party as he was reconnoitering with the Psion. He was felled by the scouts (a Ranger 2 and a Scout 1), who left him to die while the scouts pursued the Psion, who fled the battle. He stabilized on his own at -9, and a war party from the base tracked him down and took him in for interrogating.
As far as the party knows, in-character, he was there one day and gone the next--leaving without a trace or warning early in the morning, and leaving most of his possessions behind in the inn. Out-of-character, they know a little more--the player was far from discreet--but they don't know exactly where he is or how he got there, only that he's MIA/KIA, a fact that was underscored by his probationary character (an Archivist 3, who is a traveling scholar/collegiate character) making an appearance, which created some concerns about the mortality of their own characters. As a result, two other players have begun creating "just in case" back-ups. One is fairly straight-forward--an Explosive Runes-themed "demolitions expert"--and he's capable of building his own.
The other is the one I'm concerned with.
This player is the CN Goliath Barbarian, and he's rather new. Fairly good game sense, but plays a little stupid ("MERCY? You wanted MERCY?!"). No book sense--he can play what's been put before him if you explain its abilities, but he hasn't read much of the game material, and doesn't have a sense for building characters. He's typically pretty awesome with concepts, though, which is how I got this:
Two long shields, one on each arm, extending slightly beyond the hands to a point for the purpose of like short sword damage. Built into bull rushing feats and something like shield bashing, dazing, or some other form of CC with healing capabilities.
This is the summarized retelling of his build idea. Basically, what he wants is to wield a pair of weaponized shields which he can use together for a mix of offense and defense. I'm having a hard time conceptualizing the exact fighting style (or shields) as anything other than "the hunters from Halo". I'm having a harder time building it... So please, help me out here!
Thus far, I've got as far as a pair of razored shields (Underdark) or spiked shields, with one shield made of riverine (which is a significant amount of WBL at this point) with the Agile Shield Fighter line, and... I'm not entirely sure what else; I'm way out of my element here. Knight, Paladin, Fighter (Dungeoncrasher?), Cleric and Divine Mind are the only things I can think of that can mix more than one of these things together, and two of these (Cleric and Divine Mind) don't have full BAB, so they'll be hurting if they do. As far as the "with healing capabilities" part goes, that was originally part of another character concept--but if it can be rolled into this one, bonus points.
Here are the limitations:
- I would like the build to be a complete E6 build (plus a few feats if possible), so it can be entered in at whatever point his old PC leaves or dies (should it happen).
- All official 3.5 source books are allowed.
- All Pathfinder content created by Paizo Publishing is allowed.
- Dragon Magazine Compendium is allowed.
- Dragon Magazine is allowed, but only if the original article can be reproduced (I have the DMag #358 article "Master's Forge", which contains a mess of enchantments such as "Ornate", "Razor Sharp", etc, so that is allowed); basically, on a case-by-case basis.
- 3.0 content in general is not allowed (except on a case-by-case basis). I have no problem with mundane weapons and armors from 3.0 sourcebooks, if some exotic 3.0 weapon is needed (see razored shield, above).
- I am using the E6 level limitations of "your caster level cannot exceed your character level", or, in the case of artificers, "your caster level cannot exceed your character level +2", for the purpose of item creation. I know this is a point of contention, but THIS IS NOT NEGOTIABLE. That means any magic item with a caster level greater than 8 (9-20) is not allowed, nor is any requiring a spell of 5th level or higher. A list of all magic items from all 3.5 sourcebooks falling under this criteria can be found here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=235754).
- The player wants to be either LG, or NG. Things that explicitly require chaos or evil as a prerequisite (base classes, prestige classes, feats) are out.
- Items such as this (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=238523) are not only allowed, but greatly recommended.
- E6 capstone feats are allowed.
- Regarding LA and racial HD: racial HD from monstrous races is counting against the six class levels one can take (so a centaur with its 4 RHD could only ever gain two class levels). I had them roll on a grid method when they made their characters, so I'd probably just count such a character as being X levels behind as they progress (and then being X feats behind when the +feats part of 6th rolls in).
- There are no tier restrictions, but tier 2 through 4 is the sweet spot--obviously, I don't want anything that renders half the party obsolete, even in E6--but ultimately, I've decided that "being effective at what you do" is more important than what tier it is (so if a Fighter or Paladin does it best, use a Fighter or Paladin).
- If there's anything else I need to let you know, I can't remember it, offhand (but I've been bad about this before).
TL;DR: Help me build a strong two-shield fighter in E6 with no expectations of "tanking"!
Thanks! :smallbiggrin:
Also, this game has become an E6 game, complete with item restrictions based on caster level (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=235754) (and this is not the place to argue those). It also needs to be a 6-level build as a result.
The evolution of my campaign thus far has (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=226716) been (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=228912) well (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=231605)-documented (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=236752) on these forums. Right now the party stands as follows:
CN Goliath (+1) Barbarian (with PF rage powers) 3 (this is the player in question)
LE Goliath (+1) Summoner (PF) 3
LN Human Shadowcaster 4
NG Human Warblade 4
CN Grippli (PF) Spontaneous Cloistered Cleric (with the Favored Soul ACF; if that sounds complicated, it is, but basically it's a Favored Soul with Turn Undead and Domains)
LE Elf Rogue 3/Spellthief 1 (*OR* a LN Gray Elf Archivist 3)
N Elf Bard (PF version) 4
N Half-Elf Magus (PF) 4
CG Half-Elf Scout 3/Ranger 1
CG Half-Elf Swashbuckler 3/Sneak Attack Fighter 1
The story begins with the "death" of the Elf Rogue following the events in this (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=236752) thread. He went through with the plan, hiring a level 1 Shaper to cast Psionic Minor Creation on some taxine that he had bought; however, he had to cast it near the base (due to the 1-hour duration), making the mission somewhat time-sensitive. He successfully broke in with the taxine, snuck into the kitchen and poisoned the food (and a lot of the alcohol), killing eight (six soldiers, plus two of the kitchen staff who tasted the food), but in his hurry to escape, he was spotted by a man on the watchtower with a spyglass, who rallied the base, and again by a scouting party as he was reconnoitering with the Psion. He was felled by the scouts (a Ranger 2 and a Scout 1), who left him to die while the scouts pursued the Psion, who fled the battle. He stabilized on his own at -9, and a war party from the base tracked him down and took him in for interrogating.
As far as the party knows, in-character, he was there one day and gone the next--leaving without a trace or warning early in the morning, and leaving most of his possessions behind in the inn. Out-of-character, they know a little more--the player was far from discreet--but they don't know exactly where he is or how he got there, only that he's MIA/KIA, a fact that was underscored by his probationary character (an Archivist 3, who is a traveling scholar/collegiate character) making an appearance, which created some concerns about the mortality of their own characters. As a result, two other players have begun creating "just in case" back-ups. One is fairly straight-forward--an Explosive Runes-themed "demolitions expert"--and he's capable of building his own.
The other is the one I'm concerned with.
This player is the CN Goliath Barbarian, and he's rather new. Fairly good game sense, but plays a little stupid ("MERCY? You wanted MERCY?!"). No book sense--he can play what's been put before him if you explain its abilities, but he hasn't read much of the game material, and doesn't have a sense for building characters. He's typically pretty awesome with concepts, though, which is how I got this:
Two long shields, one on each arm, extending slightly beyond the hands to a point for the purpose of like short sword damage. Built into bull rushing feats and something like shield bashing, dazing, or some other form of CC with healing capabilities.
This is the summarized retelling of his build idea. Basically, what he wants is to wield a pair of weaponized shields which he can use together for a mix of offense and defense. I'm having a hard time conceptualizing the exact fighting style (or shields) as anything other than "the hunters from Halo". I'm having a harder time building it... So please, help me out here!
Thus far, I've got as far as a pair of razored shields (Underdark) or spiked shields, with one shield made of riverine (which is a significant amount of WBL at this point) with the Agile Shield Fighter line, and... I'm not entirely sure what else; I'm way out of my element here. Knight, Paladin, Fighter (Dungeoncrasher?), Cleric and Divine Mind are the only things I can think of that can mix more than one of these things together, and two of these (Cleric and Divine Mind) don't have full BAB, so they'll be hurting if they do. As far as the "with healing capabilities" part goes, that was originally part of another character concept--but if it can be rolled into this one, bonus points.
Here are the limitations:
- I would like the build to be a complete E6 build (plus a few feats if possible), so it can be entered in at whatever point his old PC leaves or dies (should it happen).
- All official 3.5 source books are allowed.
- All Pathfinder content created by Paizo Publishing is allowed.
- Dragon Magazine Compendium is allowed.
- Dragon Magazine is allowed, but only if the original article can be reproduced (I have the DMag #358 article "Master's Forge", which contains a mess of enchantments such as "Ornate", "Razor Sharp", etc, so that is allowed); basically, on a case-by-case basis.
- 3.0 content in general is not allowed (except on a case-by-case basis). I have no problem with mundane weapons and armors from 3.0 sourcebooks, if some exotic 3.0 weapon is needed (see razored shield, above).
- I am using the E6 level limitations of "your caster level cannot exceed your character level", or, in the case of artificers, "your caster level cannot exceed your character level +2", for the purpose of item creation. I know this is a point of contention, but THIS IS NOT NEGOTIABLE. That means any magic item with a caster level greater than 8 (9-20) is not allowed, nor is any requiring a spell of 5th level or higher. A list of all magic items from all 3.5 sourcebooks falling under this criteria can be found here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=235754).
- The player wants to be either LG, or NG. Things that explicitly require chaos or evil as a prerequisite (base classes, prestige classes, feats) are out.
- Items such as this (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=238523) are not only allowed, but greatly recommended.
- E6 capstone feats are allowed.
- Regarding LA and racial HD: racial HD from monstrous races is counting against the six class levels one can take (so a centaur with its 4 RHD could only ever gain two class levels). I had them roll on a grid method when they made their characters, so I'd probably just count such a character as being X levels behind as they progress (and then being X feats behind when the +feats part of 6th rolls in).
- There are no tier restrictions, but tier 2 through 4 is the sweet spot--obviously, I don't want anything that renders half the party obsolete, even in E6--but ultimately, I've decided that "being effective at what you do" is more important than what tier it is (so if a Fighter or Paladin does it best, use a Fighter or Paladin).
- If there's anything else I need to let you know, I can't remember it, offhand (but I've been bad about this before).
TL;DR: Help me build a strong two-shield fighter in E6 with no expectations of "tanking"!
Thanks! :smallbiggrin: