Preventing misuse of enchantments (Pathfinder)

[Rift_Wolf]

I'm a fairly new GM (I've been running a game for almost a year now) and although I enjoy it and the players all enjoy the game, I have a bit of a problem with the sorcerer of the group, mainly in his usage of the suggestion spell. I've let him cut loose with it after running an undead-heavy campaign, but it's getting to the point where he's walking the thin line between goofy **** and definite sex crimes. It started off with him making goblins hug each other during a fight to stop them fighting, but in the last game he made one slaver 'fall in love' with another tied-up slaver. What's more, he seems to think suggestion will work on everything, including bosses.
Now, I'm not very good at confronting players about how they're playing the game, and I'm not sure if I'm taking the game too seriously and should let him have his fun (Although, even after getting himself killed by a boss, he still thinks 'suggestion' is somehow going to work against an ogre mage monk). However, in-game, there's no reason why the slavers, having endured mindrape and physical molestation, won't hunt down the sorcerer and cut off his thumbs. I'm not sure if this would be vindictive on my part, however.

The tldr version: How do I stop a 3rd level spell from ruining my game without being unfair or overly harsh to the player?

[JonRG]

You influence the actions of the target creature by suggesting a course of activity (limited to a sentence or two). The suggestion must be worded in such a manner as to make the activity sound reasonable. Asking the creature to do some obviously harmful act automatically negates the effect of the spell.

That should cover the truly outrageous stuff. :smallsmile:

[Malachei]

It started off with him making goblins hug each other during a fight to stop them fighting,

Suggestion, IMO, would not be able to accomplish this during a fight, or even when a fight is imminent. It violates the "harm" clause in the spell, as nobody would hug each other during a fight (except when grappling ;))

Suggestion is not Dominate Monster, or Charm Monster (which also has its limits).

However, just like Dominate and Charm, it affects only one creature.

If you talk to him about the limits, and that he's welcome to come up with reasonable suggestions, perhaps giving a few examples (such as making enemies flee, which you can plan for by having more enemies), you'll have an easier time. If he then thinks the spell is not useful anymore, allow him to switch to another spell.

[Talakeal]

I wish my GM was as permissive with suggestion as you. I remember one time I was trying to end a fight peacefully and cast suggestion to "Stop fighting and talk this over." The response was the enemy paused for a split second, said "No." Then the DM ruled that the condition had been met and the spell broken without even a one turn break from combat.

[Dairuga]

I wish my GM was as permissive with suggestion as you. I remember one time I was trying to end a fight peacefully and cast suggestion to "Stop fighting and talk this over." The response was the enemy paused for a split second, said "No." Then the DM ruled that the condition had been met and the spell broken without even a one turn break from combat.

That is quite sad to hear, actually. Especially since the "Stop fighting" condition was clearly not met. And neither was "talking this over"; since you could argue that talking things over constitutes an argument, and you did not get to say anything, hence no argument.

But still, To the main problem of the thread; Suggestion is only a third level spell. Even with someone whom have 18 CHA, the DC of the spell will only be 17 without shenanigans or DC buffers, meaning that it will hardly ever work on enemies with +3 to +7 to will saves. But that might just be bad luck on my side. As for how to solve it, have most of the major enemies take the feat "Iron will" an possibly "indomitable will", since that would basically screw over the majority of attempts at suggesting things.

Also, as stated earlier; they can only suggest things, not control people. He could, for example suggest that one slaver "Would think that the other slaver needed some more love, and should show that", but he could in no way force a slaver to actually do it. It is all in making it sound reasonable, and after that, hoping the DM is willing to play on your side, and not the monsters.

(Also, funnily enough, the BoEF has usages of how to use the Suggestion spell sexually, and they even mention that if anything of such nature is attempted, there could be heavy, heavy bonuses on the will save if something outrageous is suggested; something the characters would not normally do, etc, etc. So a slaver, most likely tampered and trained into resisting mental abuse after being broken, along with your sorcerer trying anything funny, could have a total of +6-9 to her / his save rolls, making it less than 40-30% chance for the spell to actually stick. And if the sorcerer is getting its face smashed in, they might want to look for more useful spells to use than ones that work 1/3th of the time )