What tier would a mixture of non-casters be?

[danzibr]

Suppose you mix all the non-casting base classes together, like Fighter, Barb, Rogue, Monk, Warblade, Swordsage, Crusader, Marshall, Factotum, Truenamer, et cetera, et cetera. We're ruling out anything that gets casting (or psionics), so Psion is obviously out, but as is PsyWar, Pally, et cetera.

Would this be tier 1? Tiers are defined as more being able to solve any kind of problem rather than damage output, and... well, without any high level spells, can people still do that?

How about if we remove the skill-monkey classes?

I seem to remember reading something like this a whiiiiiiiiiiile ago but don't recall.

[Madara]

Truenamer

What kind of non-casters are we talking about? And what do you mean by "Mix"?

Anyways, it wouldn't be T1.

[Voyager_I]

Now you have a fantastic array of abilities, but none of them are exceptionally powerful individually and you still only get one set of actions per round. And, y'know, you still can't fly, turn invisible, teleport, scry, create magic items, or any of that jazz.

That's what really sets casters apart; they can do a whole bunch of things that mundanes just don't have an answer for, and mashing every mundane in the world together isn't really going to solve it. It might still be overpowered, but it's gonna have nothing on an optimized Wizard.

If you really want to munchkin out, the best part about all of this is probably having UMD as a class skill.


If you want it rated very roughly? I'd say probably Tier 2, since ToB classes are Tier 3 by themselves and this would be all of those + everything else.

[tyckspoon]

If you're basically gestalting everything together? Tier 3 as a minimum, because Factotum/Tome of Battle. If you're including Truenaming/Binding/Incarnum/invocations as 'non-casting' systems, it should make Tier 2 pretty soundly; you still don't have the raw power + versatility of Tier 1 full casters, but all of the magical classes have a broad enough variety of things that they're *pretty* good at that with all of them to tap you can probably find a highly relevant ability.

[danzibr]

If you're including Truenaming/Binding/Incarnum/invocations as 'non-casting' systems
Yeah, I was thinking that. Basically only ruling out wizards, clerics, psions and the like.

I find it interesting they still don't make tier one.

Another question: if you took away a wizard's 9th level spells would they still be tier one?

[The Glyphstone]

Yeah, I was thinking that. Basically only ruling out wizards, clerics, psions and the like.

I find it interesting they still don't make tier one.

Another question: if you took away a wizard's 9th level spells would they still be tier one?

Tier's independent of level, so they would remain Tier 1 till level 16 at least.

[Prime32]

Another question: if you took away a wizard's 9th level spells would they still be tier one?You do this every time you play a game lower than lv17. So yes.

[Soranar]

Due to a Factotum's action economy paired with real martial classes, I'd say you'd reach tier 2.

Basically you'd be at the point that ,while having no spells, you have mundane abilities that cover everything and you'd curbstomp any encounter you cross.

[INoKnowNames]

I wonder how many people consider Tier 1 to be where the game should be at.

If I remember my understanding of that thread:


Tier 1 Characters (and less so Tier 2) are broken in that they can do anything and everything flawlessly and are actually hard to challenge without making the entire game dangerous or invalidating the other characters (or quite frequently both).
Tier 3 and 4 characters usually have 1 thing they're good at, and other things they can do when that one thing isn't needed (less so for Tier 4). Being able to actually contribute to a game and do things well without actually breaking the game, and still being able to be challenged without feeling useless or causing problems.
Tier 5 and 6 characters are characters that are broken in that they can't do anything well (especially tier 6). Being only half way decent at one thing in a way that most other characters don't fail at, and having rarely any response when that thing isn't appropriate makes it kinda hard to plan for characters like these without significant work to keep them relevant and give them a fighting chance.


Is that about right?

Assuming it is, trying to make all the non-casters be as good as casters isn't really what the game needs. Just knocking the casters down a few pegs so they don't rule the entire game is probably more appropriate.

[Draz74]

Considering how many of the classes in question have "one little broken trick" hidden somewhere in their depths (like Iron Heart Surge/White Raven Tactics for the ToB classes, Synchronicity combos for the PsyWar, etc.) this would certainly be a high Tier 2, if not a low Tier 1.

But yeah, there are also a few little things here and there that are annoyingly difficult for any non-Caster/Manifester to do.

[Rejusu]

Spoiler'd out cause I think I probably misunderstood the original post when I made this:

The tiers as they're currently defined would barely change. Since the tiers as they're defined aren't just a ranking of relative "power" but also defined categories. For example a tier 3 is defined thusly:


Capable of doing one thing quite well, while still being useful when that one thing is inappropriate, or capable of doing all things, but not as well as classes that specialize in that area. Occasionally has a mechanical ability that can solve an encounter, but this is relatively rare and easy to deal with. Challenging such a character takes some thought from the DM, but isn't too difficult. Will outshine any Tier 5s in the party much of the time.

A tier 3 class is still going to fit this definition even if you remove all the other tiers above it. Therefore even if you make tier 3 into tier 1 a t3 class is still going to be a t3 class by definition, if not by name. So really if you're looking for an answer just look at the existing tier system, remove tiers 1 and 2 and start the numbering from tier 3.

Tier 3 would become 1, 4 into 2, 5 into 3 and so on and so forth. Factotum would be tier 1 where as Monk would be tier 3. Again since it's a ranking of relative power (as well as categories) the distance between classes relative power isn't going to change if all you do is remove casters from the equation. A Swordsage is still going to be mechanically superior to a Fighter.

Even if you removed all the classes that formed a tier in between two other tiers nothing would really change. Say if you removed the tier 2 classes then by default tier 3 would become tier 2. Even then though the definition of tier 3 wouldn't change, only the name would. And the gap in relative ability would remain the same. All that'd be different would be that the gap between tier 1 and tier 2 would be increased.

In all honesty, it's kind of a pointless exercise. The only thing that would really alter the tier system is by changing the classes so they'd move up or down a tier.

[Person_Man]

I think you'd be Tier 2. Factotum + Wildshape Ranger + Tome of Battle by itself could pull off a huge variety of different things, and would have enough resources to be highly effective in many different circumstances. The only real issue might be MAD, and the inability to proactively reshape reality (scry and die, pocket dimensions, Wish, etc) until 19th level when the Factotum's ability to duplicate class abilities kicks in.

On a similar note, if one of my player does want to play a Tier 4 or lower class, I'll often let them gestalt with another Tier 4 or lower class, or just fill in dead or weak levels with thematically cool/useful abilities from other classes, alternate class features, or prestige classes. It works fairly well.

[Chess435]

I think you'd be Tier 2 for most of your career, hitting Tier 1 at 19th/20th level, when capstones start kicking in. You'll be getting Blindsight, Cunning Brilliance, double stances, more SLA's than you can shake a stick at, top-end chakras, and most importantly, Conjunctive Gate. More than enough there to break any reasonable game in a number of different ways.

[Rejusu]

Oh wait, maybe I misunderstood the original post with my first post. Are we talking what the tiers would be like if we removed casters (in which case my first post stands) or what tier a super gestalted (since I'm assuming we're not talking about a multi-class character) version of non-casting classes would be?

If it's the latter then I think tier 2 or 3. Definitely not tier 1. Even with the capstones you're still not going to be as capable as a full caster. Plus considering it's a mish-mash of classes that don't necessarily compliment each other you're never going to get the full effectiveness out of all of them. Thanks in a large part to MAD issues.

[danzibr]

Oh wait, maybe I misunderstood the original post with my first post. Are we talking what the tiers would be like if we removed casters (in which case my first post stands) or what tier a super gestalted (since I'm assuming we're not talking about a multi-class character) version of non-casting classes would be?

If it's the latter then I think tier 2 or 3. Definitely not tier 1. Even with the capstones you're still not going to be as capable as a full caster. Plus considering it's a mish-mash of classes that don't necessarily compliment each other you're never going to get the full effectiveness out of all of them. Thanks in a large part to MAD issues.
I meant a super gestalt.

[Rejusu]

I meant a super gestalt.

In which case tier 2 at best. But probably more like tier 2.5. There's just a hard cap on how strong you can be in 3.5 without access to high level spells. Plus as I mentioned above you've got the limitation that most of those classes you'll be unable to use to their full effectiveness due to MAD issues, action economy, and a few other restrictions.

[GoodbyeSoberDay]

Consider what Person Man noted, and then add in everything else that doesn't get casting. We're talking about wildshape + cunning surge + all the maneuvers + rage + pounce + sneak attack + sudden strike + skirmish + bonus feats + wis to AC many times + I'm getting tired of listing everything...) is going to be a combat monster, ending encounters with a ton of standard action strikes and/or pouncing natural full attacks that do far more damage out of the box than anything else is going to do. In high op settings, the T1s and T2s will give him a run for his money, but he'll still be in that league. Not to mention the combined utility of all those T3 and T4 classes...

Do Incarnum, Invocations and Binding count as spells for this purpose?

[Chess435]

Consider what Person Man noted, and then add in everything else that doesn't get casting. We're talking about wildshape + cunning surge + all the maneuvers + rage + pounce + sneak attack + sudden strike + skirmish + bonus feats + wis to AC many times + I'm getting tired of listing everything...) is going to be a combat monster, ending encounters with a ton of standard action strikes and/or pouncing natural full attacks that do far more damage out of the box than anything else is going to do. In high op settings, the T1s and T2s will give him a run for his money, but he'll still be in that league. Not to mention the combined utility of all those T3 and T4 classes...

Do Incarnum, Invocations and Binding count as spells for this purpose?

Nope. You get all of the above. Hence the tier 1, because a 20th level Truenamer can use Conjunctive Gate to bring in Solars to do all of the high level casting for him. :smallwink:

[Tenno Seremel]

PsyWar is a caster.

[GoodbyeSoberDay]

Nope. You get all of the above. Hence the tier 1, because a 20th level Truenamer can use Conjunctive Gate to bring in Solars to do all of the high level casting for him. :smallwink:Maybe T1 by level 19, but before that it's still T2.

[Voyager_I]

I don't agree with counting True Namers, Warlocks, and the like as non-casters. They're not traditional casters, but they're still very much classes based around their use of magical abilities.

[JoshuaZ]

I'm going to disagree somewhat with some of the other comments here and argue that it would be effectively T1. The primary question is can they solve any type of challenge presented to them? I think the answer is yes.

The ToB classes + fighter + factotum mean they automatically curbstomp any direct combat situation. (Incarnum increases this by a bit, but it is already a foregone conclusion, and of course rogue and scout help a bit here too.)

Binder+ rogue + factotum handles all social issues. One important thing to note is that due to the ToB abilities, the binder essentially can choose vestiges daily with attention almost completely to non-combat purposes which gives them more flexibility to the normal choices. Of course, no matter what, once they can, they'll bind Zceryll, but for most of the time, they will have the ability to choose vestiges as necessary. Similarly, one won't need much of the rogue's special abilities (in fact, most of the options are duplicated by features from other classes), so one effectively gets to use those for additional bonus feats.

Rogue and factotum handles traps, locks and the like.

Rogue, factotum, binder handle most of the social issues.

The remaining miscellaneous abilities are handled by the binder and incarnum abilities, since binders can change their vestiges daily and the incarnum bit can choose relevant soulmelds. Together with stances from ToB one gets effectively flying, teleportation and most other relevant abilities.

The only thing I can see them potentially having trouble with is planeshifting.

In many ways one actually is more flexible than some of the T1 classes. A wizard or an archivist without their spellbook or prayerbook is essentially close to useless. But you will be essentially undisarmable (ToB+ Soulknife), and can bind vestiges in almost any circumstance (presumably one takes Ignore Special Requirements, but most binders do that anyways).

One has other nice bits too. For example, the Truenamer's bonuses to knowledge checks will quite helpful for identifying monsters and their weaknesses, and mean that a small number of knowledge ranks spread around can be very useful.

A few of the other classes end up rounding things off. For example one gets a nice extra feat from Swashbuckler, and their luck ability helps for skill checks that one has few skill ranks in. Similar remarks apply to the various incarnum abilities. In particular, one can choose daily which soulmelds will likely help skill checks the most, such as a Vitality Belt and a Silvertongue Mask. The CA ninja helps by effectively giving buffs to a variety of skill checks permanently as well as duplicating some mildly common spells at upper levels. Similar remarks apply to the otherwise pretty weak Scout. The Marshall isn't that helpful but gives a bonus feat at first level which helps deal with some of the social issues, the auras and move action ability will go nicely with White Raven Tactics and Zceryll's summoning ability to add even more curbstomp to combat.

The key issue isn't as much that one can like a normal T1 choose which abilities to have ready to deal with any situation (although one does have some of that in terms of the binder and incarnum classes) as much as that what T1's do to a large extent is choose which T3 they will emulate that day, and the supergestalt gets essentially all of them.

[Draz74]

Good points, JoshuaZ. That's a good explanation of why I said "High Tier 2, if not Low Tier 1."

This guy can solve most problems just as well as any Tier 1, if not better. Where he falls short of the Tier 1's is in his ability to proactively shape the world, with stuff like paranoid divinations and Tippyverse tactics and planar shenanigans.

Come to think of it, a LOT depends on whether Warlock is included in the mix of classes. This guy will probably never use Eldritch Blast and Invocations won't change too much, but Imbue Item is an incredible addition. On top of a character who is already so flexible and powerful in combat, it basically turns this guy into an Artificer-lite. Which means now he can do Tippyverse shenanigans, as well as basic tasks like plane shifting.

So I think this guy is definitely Tier 1 if he gets Imbue Item.

[subject42]

The only real issue might be MAD, and the inability to proactively reshape reality (scry and die, pocket dimensions, Wish, etc) until 19th level when the Factotum's ability to duplicate class abilities kicks in.

Doesn't factotum have have the ability to mimic up to 7th level spells as a class feature even before that? If so, I think we're at least in Spirit Shaman (Tier 1.5) territory.

Factotum "casting" allows for Scrying+Teleport pod drops.

Truenamer allows for Gate.

Binder allows for hilarious amounts of summons, which should shore up any major holes.

Shadowcaster technically isn't casting spells, but using SLAs and supernatural abilities, so it would be on the list if Incarnum/Binder level of magic are allowed. Shadowcaster allows for time stop and foresight.

The only big-ticket item that this theoretical omnistalt character is missing is contingency.

[Draz74]

The only big-ticket item that this theoretical omnistalt character is missing is contingency.

Um, why wouldn't Factotum cover that?

[subject42]

Um, why wouldn't Factotum cover that?

Looking back at it, Factotum would cover that. I thought it had an XP component.

[Lans]

A shadow caster can also grab it via shadow evocation

[Emperor Tippy]

It depends on exactly what classes you include as casters but the composite character wouldn't equal a level 20 wizard.

If you include things like Conjunctive Gate then that changes, but again that is the spell/UMD doing the changing.

[Quellian-dyrae]

I'd also call it Tier 1, easily. I mean, I won't argue that a sufficiently skilled optimizer with a level 20 wizard taking full advantage of divinations and paranoia tactics would be able to outperform it, but I'm fairly sure that's closer to the ceiling of Tier 1 than the floor. This "class" might not hit that level, but my guess is it would reliably be able to outperform, say, your typical CoDzilla build over a broad range of encounters.

[JoshuaZ]

It depends on exactly what classes you include as casters but the composite character wouldn't equal a level 20 wizard.


Level 20 wizard is a distinct issue from whether it would be effectively T1. Also, you really don't need to use any UMD stuff. To make the claim more precise, let's use the following list:

Binder+Truenamer+Factotum+Swordsage+Warblade+Crusa der+Barbarian+Fighter+Monk+CA Ninja+Scout+Rogue+Swashbuckler+CW Samurai + Incarnate +Soulborn+Totemist+Battle Dancer+Marshall+Soulknife

Call this Gestalt 1.

This supergestalt seems to be T1. I'm ignoring for now the issue of alignment conflicts. However, I suspect that alignment consistent subsets are T1 albeit very weakly. In that context, the subset with no alignment restrictions is:

Binder+Truenamer+Factotum+Swordsage+Warblade+Fight er+CA Ninja+Scout+Rogue+Swashbuckler+Totemist+Marshall + Soulknife

Call this Gestalt 2.

My earlier analysis goes through mainly just on this subset although one is slightly more restricted with what soulmelds one can use and how much essentia one has available. The primary losses in this context are the Barbarian's better hit die, and the Crusader's nice class features. Both of those are useful only in the primary context of having a close to I-win button for combat encounters. In combat, with Swordsage+Warblade+Fighter one is still getting most of that, especially with a little bit of assistance from the other combat classes. This is enough that one can use the Binder and Totemist to choose their daily abilities completely ignoring combat, which gives them a lot of options. However, I'm unsure if this is still T1, since one has many fewer options for soulmelds, which one needs effectively to substitute for spells.

The only real issue with either is that there may be potential MAD issues. However, I think those will be pretty minor as long as one has high int. The factotum allows one to add one's int modifier to many of the purposes where dex and strength would be needed, and the large number of skill points get distributed high enough that standard MAD issues shouldn't apply. It isn't hard to use maneuvers that don't have much in the way of saves, thus making the lack of an int based discipline not a big issue.

Overall verdict, Gestalt 1 seems to be T1. Gestalt 2 is more questionable, but it is clearly much closer to T1 than it is to T2 (as Tyckspoon already noted this follows pretty trivially since one has a T2 included in the gestalt).

Note also that in this analysis I've left out classes like the Warlock that are essentially alternate casters; invocation users are casters by most reasonable notions. . I also haven't included the OA Samurai at all (yay weak bonus feats), or the Rokugan Ninja (seems to be commonly used but is technically third party). Adding both is unlikely to alter this analysis in any substantial fashion. I also haven't included any class variants like the Wildshape Ranger (which might if added to G2 arguably push it clearly into T1).

Edit: Just realized that G1 doesn't include the Knight, but it doesn't alter the analysis in any substantial way (just adds marginally more curbstomp to battles).

[Emperor Tippy]

You could easily argue that the Truenamer, Binder, Incarnate, Soulborn, and Totemist are all casters.

---
Factotum, Swordsage, Monk, Warblade, Crusader, Rogue, Fighter, Barbarian would be a Tier 3 class. It would be more powerful and useful than a lot builds made using Tier 1 and Tier 2 classes but it would still be Tier 3 (at least without UMD abuse).

d12 HD, 8 skill points per level, all good saves, full BAB, every non epic non caster feat in the game, etc. wouldn't break into Tier 2; and most assuredly wouldn't break into Tier 1.

The mixture character might be able to kill a Tier 1 character but they still are simply unable to alter the multiverse like Tier 1 caster can.

No matter what you do, without access to magic you aren't going to become immune to harm, as just one example. To be Tier 1 is to have limitless potential and versatility.

You could have a character with an AC of 100,000, an AB of 100,000, every stat at 100,000, a million HP, a perfect flight speed of a million feet per move action; and it still wouldn't be Tier 1 (or even Tier 2).

[JoshuaZ]

You could easily argue that the Truenamer, Binder, Incarnate, Soulborn, and Totemist are all casters.

No disagreement that those classes might be arguably labeled casters, although I think that one could just as well apply that to the Factotum, and to a lesser extent to the Swordsage and Crusader. In asking this sort of question one needs to instead of asking what it means to be a noncaster and arguing over that, it makes more sense to actually look at specific lists and examine them.




Factotum, Swordsage, Monk, Warblade, Crusader, Rogue, Fighter, Barbarian would be a Tier 3 class. It would be more powerful and useful than a lot builds made using Tier 1 and Tier 2 classes but it would still be Tier 3 (at least without UMD abuse).

Er, I'm not sure why you used this reduced set. There are a lot of other low tier classes that are unambiguously not spellcasters.



d12 HD, 8 skill points per level, all good saves, full BAB, every non epic non caster feat in the game, etc. wouldn't break into Tier 2; and most assuredly wouldn't break into Tier 1.

The mixture character might be able to kill a Tier 1 character but they still are simply unable to alter the multiverse like Tier 1 caster can.

Agreed that this is not T1. In fact, I'd go farther and say that Factotum+Swordsage+Warblade+Crusader+Barbarian+Fig hter+Monk+CA Ninja+Scout+Rogue+Swashbuckler+CW Samurai + Battle Dancer+Marshall+Soulknife isn't T2 either for essentially the reasons you outlined. However, I'm unsure about the claim about all the feats, and I haven't thought hard enough about that claim. I suspect that there are enough feats that one could effectively get T2.

[Emperor Tippy]

I didn't feel like listing out the two hundred or so non caster classes in the game. Large swaths of them would be redundant (once you have d12 HD, full BAB, all good saves, max skill points/level, and all skills as class skills then all that is left are the various abilities of the classes).

Tier 2 is the same level of raw power as tier 1 but with slightly less direct versatility. Anything a Wizard can do, a Sorcerer can do as well (it just requires more steps).

You can fake Tier 1 or Tier 2 with any class through the use of UMD but without using spellcasting of one form or another you won't reach that level; regardless of the number of classes you pile on. You still might be more than capable of killing a Tier 1 character but you simply lack the large scale world alteration potential that defines those tiers.

[JoshuaZ]

Question: Are you including in your feat lists feats that give spell-like abilities? Also, when you say all feats are you allowing one to take a feat multiple times?

[Emperor Tippy]

Question: Are you including in your feat lists feats that give spell-like abilities?
Yes.

Also, when you say all feats are you allowing one to take a feat multiple times?
So long as the feat is one that you can take multiple times, yes.

[JoshuaZ]

One issue that is going to then come up is what level characters one is talking about. Usually in the tier system one is looking at the whole from 1-20, but obviously having all those feats at low levels is going to be a problem. So let's say that feats enter at whatever their minimal normal level is.

In this framework I think you can hit into the T2 range. One of the most straightforward ways is that you have Leadership and the Leadership feats from Heroes of Battle and Dragon 346. So the key thing is to get a cohort who is a factotum. Use the Arcane Dilettante ability. You both now have some spellcasting ability. Decent but not amazing.

However, you get other fun stuff also.

You get starting at level 1, most of the fey feats from Complete Mage
and most of the fiendish feats from Complete Mage. You also get Insightful, Necropolis Born, Night Haunt, Soul of the North, Spell Hand from Complete Arcane, and Seer from Dragon Compendium. This is a decent set of spell-like abilities which duplicate a lot of spells on the sorcerer list. You also get one of the dragonmark options, and that feat line gives you a few more spells, some of which are very high level.

The sudden metamagic feats apply to Spell-Like abilities.

The various devotion feats also all kick in at level 1, which also gives you a summoning option.

At level 1 you also get Bind Vestige, Improved Bind Vestige, and Practiced Binder.

Since Open Minded can be taken any number of times, I will do so starting at level 1 and max out all skills, and also max out skill tricks and languages. Some of the skill tricks duplicate low level spells, and the language bit will make Tongues an irrelevant spell.

At low levels, you will effectively have access to many spells on the sorcerer/wizard list, and a lot of the utility spells. As your level increases, the arcane dilettante starts kicking in, and really hits its peak around level 10-12. You will fall off again at the very top (since you never get level 8 or 9 spell equivalents aside from a few fixed ones that function as benefits from other class features). But from 1-15 or so this should be effectively T2.

[Draz74]

Tiers don't apply just at Level 20, either. I don't really have time, but I kind of want to stat up a Level 7 character with the super-stalt class. Level 7 is ostensibly the level when casters really start to outclass their competition ... but I think the super-stalt would easily outplay a typical caster most of the way through the mid-levels.

Of course the super-stalt becomes much weaker if magical classes like Binder are left out, contrary to the OP.

[Lans]

Supergestalt gets a huge power jump at level 8 due to factotum extra standared action and another bind, but at level 7 it looks to have an ac in the 30s 11 bonus feats, +6&charisma to initiative.

[Emperor Tippy]

This is a rough draft of something I've been messing with, it's basically a Fighter//Monk//Rogue//Elocater//Slayer//Assassin gestalt with a few tweaks.

It still doesn't break into tier 2. Although it would contribute at even high level games, would be fun as hell to play, and is overpowered for most parties.

Alignment
Any.
Hit Die
d10.
Class Skills
The champion’s class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Appraise (Int), Balance (Dex), Bluff (Cha), Climb (Str), Craft (Int), Decipher Script (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Disable Device (Int), Disguise (Cha), Escape Artist (Dex), Forgery (Int), Gather Information (Cha), Handle Animal (Cha), Hide (Dex), Intimidate (Cha), Jump (Str), Knowledge (local) (Int), Listen (Wis), Move Silently (Dex), Open Lock (Dex), Perform (Cha), Profession (Wis), Ride (Dex), Search (Int), Sense Motive (Wis), Sleight of Hand (Dex), Spot (Wis), Swim (Str), Tumble (Dex), Use Magic Device (Cha), and Use Rope (Dex).
Skill Points at 1st Level
(8 + Int modifier) ×4.
Skill Points at Each Additional Level
8 + Int modifier.
BAB: Full
Saves: All good
Weapon and Armor Proficiency
A champion is proficient with all simple and martial weapons, kama, nunchaku,
sai, shuriken, siangham, hand crossbow, and with all armor (heavy, medium, and light) and shields (including tower shields).
AC Bonus (Ex)
The champion adds her Wisdom bonus (if any) to her AC. In addition, a champion gains a +1 bonus to AC at 5th level. This bonus increases by 1 for every five champion levels thereafter (+2 at 10th, +3 at 15th, and +4 at 20th level).
These bonuses to AC apply even against touch attacks or when the champion is flat-footed. She loses these bonuses when she is immobilized or helpless.
Unarmed Strike
At 1st level, a champion gains Improved Unarmed Strike as a bonus feat. A champion’s attacks may be with either fist interchangeably or even from elbows, knees, and feet. This means that a champion may even make unarmed strikes with her hands full. There is no such thing as an off-hand attack for a champion striking unarmed. A champion may thus apply her full Strength bonus on damage rolls for all her unarmed strikes.

Usually a champion’s unarmed strikes deal lethal damage, but she can choose to deal nonlethal damage instead with no penalty on her attack roll. She has the same choice to deal lethal or nonlethal damage while grappling.

A champion’s unarmed strike is treated both as a manufactured weapon and a natural weapon for the purpose of spells and effects that enhance or improve either manufactured weapons or natural weapons.

A Champion also deals unarmed strike damage equal to a monk of her level.
Bonus Feats
At 1st level, a champion gets a bonus combat-oriented feat in addition to the feat that any 1st-level character gets and the bonus feat granted to a human character. The champion gains an additional bonus feat at 2nd level and every two champion levels thereafter (4th, 6th, 8th, 10th, 12th, 14th, 16th, 18th, and 20th). These bonus feats must be drawn from the feats noted as fighter bonus feats. A champion must still meet all prerequisites for a bonus feat, including ability score and base attack bonus minimums.

In addition, at 1st level, a champion may select either Improved Grapple or Stunning Fist as a bonus feat. At 2nd level, she may select either Combat Reflexes or Deflect Arrows as a bonus feat. At 6th level, she may select either Improved Disarm or Improved Trip as a bonus feat. A champion need not have any of the prerequisites normally required for these feats to select them.

At 4th level a champion gains Mobility as a bonus feat even if she doesn't meet the prerequisites normally required to select it.

At 5th level a champion gains Spring Attack as a bonus feat even if she doesn't meet the prerequisites normally required to select it.

At 6th level, an champion gains Sidestep Charge as a bonus feat, even if she does not meet the prerequisites. If the character already has this feat, she gains no benefit.

These bonus feats are in addition to the feat that a character of any class gets from advancing levels
Sneak Attack

If a champion can catch an opponent when he is unable to defend himself effectively from her attack, she can strike a vital spot for extra damage.

The champion’s attack deals extra damage any time her target would be denied a Dexterity bonus to AC (whether the target actually has a Dexterity bonus or not), or when the champion flanks her target. This extra damage is 1d6 at 1st level, and it increases by 1d6 every two champion levels thereafter. Should the champion score a critical hit with a sneak attack, this extra damage is not multiplied.

Ranged attacks can count as sneak attacks only if the target is within 30 feet.

With a sap (blackjack) or an unarmed strike, a champion can make a sneak attack that deals nonlethal damage instead of lethal damage. She cannot use a weapon that deals lethal damage to deal nonlethal damage in a sneak attack, not even with the usual -4 penalty.

A champion can sneak attack only living creatures with discernible anatomies—undead, constructs, oozes, plants, and incorporeal creatures lack vital areas to attack. Any creature that is immune to critical hits is not vulnerable to sneak attacks. The champion must be able to see the target well enough to pick out a vital spot and must be able to reach such a spot. A champion cannot sneak attack while striking a creature with concealment or striking the limbs of a creature whose vitals are beyond reach.
Trapfinding
Champions can use the Search skill to locate traps when the task has a Difficulty Class higher than 20.

Finding a nonmagical trap has a DC of at least 20, or higher if it is well hidden. Finding a magic trap has a DC of 25 + the level of the spell used to create it.

Champions can use the Disable Device skill to disarm magic traps. A magic trap generally has a DC of 25 + the level of the spell used to create it.

A champion who beats a trap’s DC by 10 or more with a Disable Device check can study a trap, figure out how it works, and bypass it (with her party) without disarming it.

Spells
Beginning at 6th level, a champion gains the ability to cast a number of arcane spells. To cast a spell, a champion must have an Intelligence score of at least 10 + the spell’s level, so a champion with an Intelligence of 10 or lower cannot cast these spells. Champion bonus spells are based on Intelligence, and saving throws against these spells have a DC of 10 + spell level + the champions’s Intelligence bonus. When the champion gets 0 spells per day of a given spell level he gains only the bonus spells he would be entitled to based on his Intelligence score for that spell level.

The champion has the same spell list as the Assassin. A champion casts spells just as a bard does.

Upon reaching 11th level, at every even-numbered level after that (13th and 15th), a champion can choose to learn a new spell in place of one he already knows. The new spell’s level must be the same as that of the spell being exchanged, and it must be at least two levels lower than the highest-level champion spell the champion can cast. a champion may swap only a single spell at any given level, and must choose whether or not to swap the spell at the same time that he gains new spells known for that level.

Evasion (Ex)
At 2nd level or higher if a champion makes a successful Reflex saving throw against an attack that normally deals half damage on a successful save, she instead takes no damage. Evasion can be used only if a champion is wearing light armor or no armor. A helpless champion does not gain the benefit of evasion.
Fast Movement (Ex)
At 3rd level, a champion gains an enhancement bonus to her speed, as shown on Table: The Champion. A champion carrying a heavy load loses this extra speed.
Still Mind (Ex)
A champion of 3rd level or higher gains a +2 bonus on saving throws against spells and effects from the school of enchantment.
Trap Sense (Ex)
At 3rd level, a champion gains an intuitive sense that alerts her to danger from traps, giving her a +1 bonus on Reflex saves made to avoid traps and a +1 dodge bonus to AC against attacks made by traps. These bonuses rise to +2 when the champion reaches 6th level, to +3 when she reaches 9th level, to +4 when she reaches 12th level, to +5 at 15th, and to +6 at 18th level.
Trap sense bonuses gained from multiple classes stack.
Uncanny Dodge (Ex)
Starting at 4th level, a champion can react to danger before her senses would normally allow her to do so. She retains her Dexterity bonus to AC (if any) even if she is caught flat-footed or struck by an invisible attacker. However, she still loses her Dexterity bonus to AC if immobilized.

If a champion already has uncanny dodge from a different class she automatically gains improved uncanny dodge instead.
Ki Strike (Su)
At 4th level, a champion’s unarmed attacks are empowered with ki. Her unarmed attacks are treated as magic weapons for the purpose of dealing damage to creatures with damage reduction. Ki strike improves with the character’s champion level. At 10th level, her unarmed attacks are also treated as lawful weapons for the purpose of dealing damage to creatures with damage reduction. At 16th level, her unarmed attacks are treated as adamantine weapons for the purpose of dealing damage to creatures with damage reduction and bypassing hardness.
Purity of Body (Ex)
At 5th level, a champion gains immunity to all diseases except for supernatural and magical diseases.

Favored Enemy (Ex)
At 5th level a champion formally declares a type of creature as the enemy she detests above all others. Due to her extensive study of her foes and training in the proper techniques for combating them, she gains a +2 bonus on Bluff, Listen, Sense Motive, Spot, and Survival checks when using these skills against her favored enemy.

Likewise, she gets a +2 bonus on weapon damage rolls against creatures of this kind. At 8th level the bonuses increase to +4, at 11th level to +6, at 14th level to +8, at 17th level to +10, and at 20th level to +12.
Enemy Sense (Su)
A champion can sense the presence of her favored enemy within 60 feet of herself, even if they are hidden by darkness or walls, but she cannot discern their exact location.

Scorn Earth (Su)
At 6th level, an champion’s feet lift from the ground. From now on, she can float a foot above the ground. Instead of walking she glides along, unconcerned with the hard earth or difficult terrain. While she remains within 1 foot of a flat surface of any solid or liquid, she can take normal actions and make normal attacks, and can move at her normal speed (she can even “run” at four times her normal speed). However, at distances higher than 1 foot above any surface, her speed diminishes to 10 feet per round.

While she remains within 1 foot of a surface, she can make melee and ranged attacks normally, but if she moves any higher, she incurs the penalties on melee and ranged attack rolls as if she were the subject of the levitate spell.

At 15th level a champion can always act as if under the effects of the air walk spell.
Wholeness of Body (Su)
At 7th level or higher, a champion can heal her own wounds. She can heal a number of hit points of damage equal to twice her current champion level each day, and she can spread this healing out among several uses.

Opportunistic Strike (Ex)
Beginning at 7th level, an champion’s hyperawareness of spatial relations gives her an instinctive view of the battlefield, which allows her to make a cunning attack against distracted opponents. The champion gains a +2 insight bonus on her attack roll and her damage roll (if the attack hits) for the first attack she makes against an opponent that has been dealt damage in melee by another character since the champion’s last action. At 10th level the insight bonus increases to +4, and at 13th level the insight bonus increases to +6.
Dimension Step (Su)
An champion of 8th level or higher can slip between spaces as if using the dimension door spell, once per day. The champion cannot bring any other creatures with her. Her caster level for this effect is equal to her champion level.

At 12th level and every 4 levels thereafter the champion gains another daily use of this ability.

Lucid Buffer (Ex)
At 7th level, a champion becomes especially skilled at resisting mental attacks. She gains a +4 competence bonus on saving throws against all compulsions and mind-affecting effects. This ability is active even if the champion is unconscious, stunned, or otherwise helpless.

Improved Uncanny Dodge (Ex)
A champion of 8th level or higher can no longer be flanked.

This defense denies another champion the ability to sneak attack the character by flanking her, unless the attacker has at least four more champion levels than the target does.

If a character already has uncanny dodge from a second class, the character automatically gains improved uncanny dodge instead, and the levels from the classes that grant uncanny dodge stack to determine the minimum champion level required to flank the character.
Improved Evasion (Ex)
At 9th level, a champion’s evasion ability improves. She still takes no damage on a successful Reflex saving throw against attacks, but henceforth she takes only half damage on a failed save. A helpless champion does not gain the benefit of improved evasion.

Flanker (Ex)
An champion of 9th level or higher can flank enemies from seemingly impossible angles. She can designate any adjacent square as the square from which flanking against an ally is determined (including the square where she stands, as normal). She can designate the square at the beginning of her turn or at any time during her turn. The designated square remains her effective square for flanking until she is no longer adjacent to it or until she chooses a different square (at the start of one of her turns). The character can even choose a square that is impassable or occupied.
Special Abilities
On attaining 10th level, and at every three levels thereafter (13th, 16th, and 19th), a champion gains a special ability of her choice from among the following options.
Crippling Strike (Ex)
A champion with this ability can sneak attack opponents with such precision that her blows weaken and hamper them. An opponent damaged by one of her sneak attacks also takes 2 points of Strength damage. Ability points lost to damage return on their own at the rate of 1 point per day for each damaged ability.

Defensive Roll (Ex)
The champion can roll with a potentially lethal blow to take less damage from it than she otherwise would. Once per day, when she would be reduced to 0 or fewer hit points by damage in combat (from a weapon or other blow, not a spell or special ability), the champion can attempt to roll with the damage. To use this ability, the champion must attempt a Reflex saving throw (DC = damage dealt). If the save succeeds, she takes only half damage from the blow; if it fails, she takes full damage. She must be aware of the attack and able to react to it in order to execute her defensive roll—if she is denied her Dexterity bonus to AC, she can’t use this ability. Since this effect would not normally allow a character to make a Reflex save for half damage, the champion’s evasion ability does not apply to the defensive roll.
Opportunist (Ex)
Once per round, the champion can make an attack of opportunity against an opponent who has just been struck for damage in melee by another character. This attack counts as the champion’s attack of opportunity for that round. Even a champion with the Combat Reflexes feat can’t use the opportunist ability more than once per round.

Skill Mastery
The champion becomes so certain in the use of certain skills that she can use them reliably even under adverse conditions.

Upon gaining this ability, she selects a number of skills equal to 3 + her Intelligence modifier. When making a skill check with one of these skills, she may take 10 even if stress and distractions would normally prevent her from doing so. A champion may gain this special ability multiple times, selecting additional skills for it to apply to each time.

Slippery Mind (Ex)
This ability represents the champion’s ability to wriggle free from magical effects that would otherwise control or compel her. If a champion with slippery mind is affected by an enchantment spell or effect and fails her saving throw, she can attempt it again 1 round later at the same DC. She gets only this one extra chance to succeed on her saving throw.

Feat
A champion may gain a bonus feat in place of a special ability.

Cerebral Blind (Su)
After reaching 10th level, a champion is protected from all devices, powers, and spells that reveal location. This ability protects against information gathering by clairsentience powers or effects that reveal location.

The ability even foils bend reality, limited wish, miracle, reality revision, and wish when they are used to gain information about the champion’s location (however, metafaculty can pierce this protective barrier). In the case of remote viewing or scrying that scans an area a champion is in, the effect works, but the champion simply isn’t detected. Remote viewing or scrying attempts that are targeted specifically at a champion do not work.

Diamond Body (Su)
At 11th level, a champion gains immunity to poisons of all kinds.

Transporter (Ex)
At 11th level, an champion learns both teleport and plane shift. These abilities can each be used once per day at 11th level with an additional use of each being gained every 3 levels thereafter. The caster level for these effects is equal to the champions level.

Capricious Step (Ex)
At 12th level, an champion can take an extra 5-foot step in any round when she doesn’t perform any other movement (except for the first 5-foot step). Like the first, the second 5-foot step does not provoke attacks of opportunity. The character can take the extra 5-foot step immediately after taking the first, or wait until the end of her other actions for the round. In all other ways, the rules for taking a 5-foot step apply.

Diamond Soul (Ex)
At 13th level, a champion gains spell resistance equal to her current champion level + 10. In order to affect the champion with a spell, a spellcaster must get a result on a caster level check (1d20 + caster level) that equals or exceeds the champion’s spell resistance.

Hide in Plain Sight (Su)
At 13th level, a champion can use the Hide skill even while being observed. As long as he is within 10 feet of some sort of shadow, a champion can hide himself from view in the open without having anything to actually hide behind. He cannot, however, hide in his own shadow.

Cerebral Immunity (Su)
On reaching 13th level, a champion gains protection from all devices, powers, and spells that influence the mind. This ability shields her against almost all mind-affecting powers and effects (though the champion can selectively allow powers or spells to affect her). The ability even foils bend reality, limited wish, miracle, reality revision, and wish when they are used to mentally influence a champion.

Dimension Spring Attack (Su)
An champion of 14th level or higher can use her dimension step ability in conjunction with her Spring Attack feat once per avaible use of her dimension step ability. This ability can be used only against opponents within 60 feet to which the champion has line of sight. She can dimension step up to the target, use Spring Attack, and then use dimension step to return to her starting point. (When she uses this ability, the total distance she can travel before and after the attack is not limited by her speed.) The use of this ability counts as one of her uses of the dimension step ability on that day (and this ability is not available when she has already used up her available uses of dimension step for the day).

Accelerated Action (Su)
When she attains 15th level, an champion can accelerate herself and thereby take more actions than normal. An champion can accelerate herself for a total of 5 rounds per day. She can choose to parcel out her accelerated actions in 1-round increments. (This effect is not cumulative with similar effects that provide additional actions, such as schism or a haste spell—and in fact an champion can’t take an accelerated action if affected by these or similar effects.)

If she makes a full attack while accelerated, an champion can make one extra attack with any weapon she is holding. The attack is made using her full base attack bonus, plus any modifiers appropriate to the situation. If the champion uses her accelerated action to move, she gains an enhancement bonus to her speed of +30 feet. While accelerated, she gains a +2 dodge bonus on attack rolls and Reflex saves and a +2 dodge bonus to Armor Class. Any condition that makes her lose her Dexterity bonus to Armor Class (if any) also makes her lose these dodge bonuses.

Timeless Body (Ex)
Upon attaining 17th level, a champion no longer takes penalties to her ability scores for aging and cannot be magically aged. Any such penalties that she has already taken, however, remain in place. Bonuses still accrue, and the champion still dies of old age when her time is up.

Tongue of the Sun and Moon (Ex)
A champion of 17th level or higher can speak with any living creature.

Empty Body (Su)
At 19th level, a champion gains the ability to assume an ethereal state for 1 round per champion level per day, as though using the spell etherealness. She may go ethereal on a number of different occasions during any single day, as long as the total number of rounds spent in an ethereal state does not exceed her champion level.

Ex-champions
Like a member of any other class, a champion may be a multiclass character, but multiclass champions face a special restriction. A champion who gains a new class or (if already multiclass) raises another class by a level may never again raise her champion level, though she retains all her champion abilities.

[Chronos]

Under the OP's criteria of which classes count, I can't see how this monstrosity wouldn't be Tier 1. A large number of things that spellcasters do can be replicated by incarnum, binder, shadowcaster, truenamer, and/or Tome of Battle. Any gaps that are left of spell level 7 or lower, you fill in via Factotum's spell-faking ability. Any gaps of higher level, you fill in via Warlock making scrolls of it. Now, you can argue that those classes "shouldn't count", but the only standards we're going by here are those of the OP, and he says they do count.

[Voyager_I]

Under the OP's criteria of which classes count, I can't see how this monstrosity wouldn't be Tier 1. A large number of things that spellcasters do can be replicated by incarnum, binder, shadowcaster, truenamer, and/or Tome of Battle. Any gaps that are left of spell level 7 or lower, you fill in via Factotum's spell-faking ability. Any gaps of higher level, you fill in via Warlock making scrolls of it. Now, you can argue that those classes "shouldn't count", but the only standards we're going by here are those of the OP, and he says they do count.

I would agree, although I would also question what is being proved about "non-casters" when the heavy lifting is being done by spell casters that simply use different mechanics.

[Lans]

I don't think the incarnum classes or the binder can really be called caster classes.

Invocation users, shadow-caster, factotum, and truenamer are a different story.

Working through what this class gets. I am not going to use any ACFs at this point. A few questions on how gestalt works with similar abilities. Do maneuvers, bonus feats, and meld-shaping work with gestalt? Does this character choose from each class separately or do you choose the best refreshing, known, and prepared?

Does level 1 superstalt get 2 incarnum melds and 2 totemist melds?

Same with bonus feats, level 1 get 1 fighter feat, and 1 monk feat?
I am assuming yes to these questions.

First table just for basics and bonus feat progression Next magical abilities, then normal abilities

Hit Die:d12
Skill Points 8sp
Starting Gold:6d8 × 10 gp(aristrocrats)

{table=head]Level|BAB|Fort|Ref|Will|Special

1st|+1|+2|+2|+2|FBF, MBF, DF, EWP(BS), SF diplomacy WF(Mind blade)

2nd|+2|+3|+3|+3| FBF,MBF, Mounted Combat, Skill Focus, Sam

3rd|+3|+3|+3|+3| IF

4th|+4|+4|+4|+4|FBF, BF, SBF, Sam

5th|+5|+4|+4|+4| WBF, KB

6th|+6/+1|+5|+5|+5|, FBF, MBF, Speed of Thought

7th|+7/+2|+5|+5|+5| IF, Sam

8th|+8/+3|+6|+6|+6|FBF, SBF, imp initiative, Skill Focus

9th|+9/+4|+6|+6|+6| WBF, GWF(Mind blade)

10th|+10/+5|+7|+7|+7|FBF, Diehard, KB, Sam

11th|+11/+6/+1|+7|+7|+7| BF, IF

12th|+12/+7/+2|+8|+8|+8|FBF, SBF

13th|+13/+8/+3|+8|+8|+8| WBF, Sam

14th|+14/+9/+4|+9|+9|+9|FBF

15th|+15/+10/+5|+9|+9|+9| KB

16th|+16/+11/+6/+1|+10|+10|+10| FBF, SBF,Skill Focus, Sam

17th|+17/+12/+7/+2|+10|+10|+10| WBF

18th|+18/+13/+8/+3|+11|+11|+11|FBF, BF,

19th|+19/+14/+9/+4|+11|+11|+11| Sam

20th|+20/+15/+10/+5|+12|+12|+12| FBF, SBF
[/table]
Fighter bonus feat(FBF) as fighter
Monk bonus feat (MBF) as monk
Binder feat (BF)
warblade bonus feat(WBF)
incarnum feat (IF)
swordsage discipline focus(DF) as swordsage
Scout bonus feat(SBF) as scout
knight bonus feat(KB) as knight
Samurai bonus(Sam) feat as OA samurai

[Lonely Tylenol]

Excluding all Arcane and Divine caster classes (except the Paladin and Ranger, for which we will be using spell-less variants), Psionic classes, Invocation-users, Incarnum classes, ToM classes, and the Factotum (Arcane Dilettante is a magic-using class feature which cannot be traded out, and thus either this omnistalt can use magic or it can't have Factotum, and we don't want it to use magic), we are left with:

Aristocrat + Barbarian + Battledancer + Commoner + Crusader + Dragon Shaman + Expert + Fighter + Knight + Marshal + Monk + Ninja (CA) + Paladin (spell-less variant) + Ranger (spell-less variant) + Rogue + Samurai (CW) + Scout + Soulknife + Swashbuckler + Swordsage + Warblade + Warrior

I lazied out and ignored OA (which is technically 3.0 anyway).

We have the following chassis (counting the first instance of everything I see, going alphabetically, and not every instance)

D12 Hit Dice (Barbarian)
Full Base Attack Bonus (Barbarian)
Good Fortitude save (Barbarian)
Good Reflex save (Battledancer)
Good Will save (Aristocrat)
8+INT skills per level (Rogue)

The following class skills:
Appraise (Int) (Aristocrat)
Autohypnosis (Wis) (Soulknife)
Balance (Dex) (Battle Dancer)
Bluff (Cha) (Aristocrat)
Climb (Str) (Barbarian)
Concentration (Con) (Crusader)
Craft (Int) (Barbarian)
Decipher Script (Int) (Rogue)
Diplomacy (Cha) (Aristocrat)
Disable Device (Dex) (Ninja [CA])
Disguise (Cha) (Aristocrat)
Escape Artist (Dex) (Battle Dancer)
Forgery (Int) (Aristocrat)
Gather Information (Cha) (Aristocrat)
Handle Animal (Cha) (Aristocrat)
Heal (Wis) (Dragon Shaman [gold], Paladin [spell-less], Swordsage)
Hide (Dex) (Battle Dancer)
Intimidate (Cha) (Aristocrat)
Jump (Str) (Barbarian)
Knowledge (all skills taken individually) (Int) (Aristocrat)
Listen (Wis) (Aristocrat)
Martial Lore (Int) (Crusader)
Move Silently (Dex) (Battle Dancer)
Open Lock (Dex) (Battle Dancer)
Perform (Cha) (Aristocrat)
Profession (Wis) (Commoner)
Ride (Dex) (Aristocrat)
Search (Int) (Dragon Shaman)
Sense Motive (Wis) (Aristocrat)
Sleight of Hand (Dex) (Battle Dancer)
Speak Language (None) (Aristocrat)
Spellcraft (Int) (Dragon Shaman )
Spot (Wis) (Aristocrat)
Swim (Str) (Aristocrat)
Survival (Wis) (Aristocrat)
Tumble (Dex) (Battle Dancer)
Use Magic Device (Cha) (Rogue)
Use Rope (Dex) (Commoner)

Level-by-level breakdown of class features (redundant features, such as unarmed strike from Battle Dancer and Monk, overlap and do not stack; however, similar features with different names, or modifications thereof, stack or overlap as necessary; for instance, the Battle Dancer, Monk and Swordsage all get an AC bonus; at level 1, you get WIS and CHA to AC as per Battle Dancer and Monk as they come from different bonuses, but only when unarmored; at level 2, you retain the WIS bonus in light armor as per the Swordsage, which overlaps with Monk):

Level 1
Barbarian: Fast movement, illiteracy, rage 1/day
Battle Dancer: AC bonus (Cha), unarmed strike
Crusader: Furious counterstrike, steely resolve 5
Dragon Shaman: Draconic aura +1, totem dragon
Fighter: Bonus feat
Knight: Fighting challenge +1, knight's challenge, knight's code
Marshal: Skill Focus (Diplomacy), minor aura
Monk: Bonus feat, flurry of blows, AC bonus (Wis)
Ninja: Ki power, sudden strike +1d6, trapfinding
Paladin: Aura of good, detect evil, smite evil 1/day
Ranger: 1st favored enemy, Track, wild empathy
Rogue: Sneak attack +1d6
Samurai: Daisho proficiency
Scout: Skirmish +1d6
Soulknife: Mind blade, Weapon Focus (mind blade), Wild Talent
Swashbuckler: Weapon Finesse
Swordsage: Quick to act +1, discipline focus (Weapon Focus)
Warblade: Battle clarity (Reflex saves), weapon aptitude

Level 2
Barbarian: Uncanny dodge
Battle Dancer: Battle dancer's performance
Crusader: [none; Indomitable will is superceded by Divine Grace]
Dragon Shaman: Skill Focus
Fighter: Bonus feat
Knight: Mounted Combat, shield block +1
Marshal: Major aura +1
Monk: Bonus feat, evasion
Ninja: Ghost step (invisible)
Paladin: Divine grace, lay on hands
Ranger: Combat style
Rogue: Sneak attack +1d6
Samurai: Two swords as one
Scout: Battle fortitude +1
Soulknife: Throw mind blade
Swashbuckler: Grace +1
Swordsage: AC bonus (Wis, light armor)
Warblade: [none; Uncanny dodge overlaps with Barbarian uncanny dodge]

Level 3
Barbarian: Trap sense +1
Battle Dancer: [none]
Crusader: Zealous surge
Dragon Shaman: Draconic adaptation
Fighter: [none]
Knight: Bulwark of defense
Marshal: [none]
Monk: Still mind, fast movement +10 ft. (unarmored)
Ninja: Sudden strike +1d6, poison use
Paladin: Aura of courage, divine health
Ranger: Endurance
Rogue: Sneak attack +2d6
Samurai: Kiai smite 1/day
Scout: Skirmish +1d6/+1 AC, fast movement +10 ft. (light armor), trackless step
Soulknife: Psychic strike +1d8
Swashbuckler: Insightful Strike
Swordsage: [none]
Warblade: Battle ardor (critical confirmation)

Level 4
Barbarian: Rage 2/day
Battle Dancer: Bonus speed +10 feet
Crusader: Steely resolve 10
Dragon Shaman: Breath weapon (2d6; 15-ft. cone or 30-ft. line), draconic resolve
Fighter: Bonus feat
Knight: Armor mastery (medium), test of mettle
Marshal: Grant move action 1/day
Monk: Ki strike (magic), slow fall 20 ft.
Ninja: Great leap
Paladin: Turn undead
Ranger: Animal companion
Rogue: Improved uncanny dodge [uncanny dodge stacks with the uncanny dodge feature from Barbarian 2]
Samurai: [none]
Scout: Bonus feat
Soulknife: +1 mind blade
Swashbuckler: [none]
Swordsage: Discipline focus (insightful strike)
Warblade: [none]

Level 5
Barbarian: [none; Improved uncanny dodge was granted at rogue 4 with the stacking of the ability]
Battle Dancer: Dance of the vexing snake
Crusader: [none]
Dragon Shaman: Draconic aura +2
Fighter: [none]
Knight: Bonus feat, vigilant defender
Marshal: [none]
Monk: Purity of body
Ninja: Sudden strike +1d6
Paladin: Smite evil 1/day, special mount
Ranger: 2nd favored enemy
Rogue: Sneak attack +3d6
Samurai: Iaijutsu master
Scout: Skirmish +2d6/+1 AC
Soulknife: Free draw, shape mind blade
Swashbuckler: Dodge bonus +1
Swordsage: Quick to act +2
Warblade: Bonus feat

Level 6
Barbarian: Trap sense +2
Battle Dancer: Dancer's strike (magic)
Crusader: Smite 1/day
Dragon Shaman: Breath weapon (3d6), touch of vitality
Fighter: Bonus feat
Knight: Shield ally
Marshal: [none]
Monk: Bonus feat, slow fall 30 ft., fast movement +20 ft. (unarmored)
Ninja: Acrobatics +2, ki dodge
Paladin: Remove disease 1/week, blessed weapon
Ranger: Improved combat style, fast movement
Rogue: [none; trap sense overlaps with the Barbarian's trap sense)
Samurai: Staredown
Scout: Flawless stride
Soulknife: Mind blade enhancement +1, Speed of Thought
Swashbuckler: [none]
Swordsage: [none]
Warblade: [none]

Level 7
Barbarian: Damage reduction 1/--
Battle Dancer: [none]
Crusader: [none]
Dragon Shaman: Natural armor +1
Fighter: [none]
Knight: Fighting challenge +2
Marshal: Major aura +2
Monk: Wholeness of body
Ninja: Sudden strike +1d6, speed climb
Paladin: [none]
Ranger: Woodland stride
Rogue: Sneak attack +4d6
Samurai: Kiai smite 2/day
Scout: Skirmish +2d6/+2 AC,
Soulknife: Psychic strike +2d8
Swashbuckler: Acrobatic charge
Swordsage: Sense magic
Warblade: Battle cunning (damage)

Level 8
Barbarian: Rage 3/day
Battle Dancer: Dance of the floating step
Crusader: Steely resolve 15
Dragon Shaman: Breath weapon (4d6), Skill Focus
Fighter: Bonus feat
Knight: Call to battle
Marshal: Grant move action 2/day
Monk: Slow fall 40 ft.
Ninja: Ghost strike
Paladin: [none]
Ranger: Swift tracker
Rogue: [none; Improved Uncanny Dodge granted at Rogue 4 due to stacking of Uncanny Dodge]
Samurai: Improved Initiative
Scout: Camouflage, bonus feat
Soulknife: +2 mind blade
Swashbuckler: Improved flanking
Swordsage: Discipline focus (defensive stance)
Warblade: [none]

Level 9
Barbarian: Trap sense +3
Battle Dancer: [none]
Crusader: [none]
Dragon Shaman: Energy immunity
Fighter: [none]
Knight: Armor master (heavy)
Marshal: [none]
Monk: Improved evasion, fast movement +30 ft. (unarmored)
Ninja: Sudden strike +5d6, improved poison use
Paladin: Remove disease 2/week
Ranger: [none; Evasion granted at Monk 2]
Rogue: Sneak attack +5d6
Samurai: [none]
Scout: Skirmish +3d6/+2 AC
Soulknife: Bladewind, Greater Weapon Focus (mind blade)
Swashbuckler: [none]
Swordsage: [none; Evasion granted at Monk 2]
Warblade: Bonus feat

Level 10
Barbarian: Damage reduction 2/--
Battle Dancer: Bonus speed +20 feet
Crusader: Die Hard
Dragon Shaman: Breath weapon (5d6), draconic aura +3
Fighter: Bonus feat
Knight: Bonus feat
Marshal: [none]
Monk: Ki strike (lawful), slow fall 50 ft.
Ninja: Ghost step (ethereal)
Paladin: Smite evil 3/day
Ranger: 3rd favored enemy
Rogue: Special ability
Samurai: Mass staredown
Scout: Blindsense 30 ft.
Soulknife: Mind blade enhancement +2
Swashbuckler: Dodge bonus +2
Swordsage: Quick to act +3
Warblade: [none]

Level 11
Barbarian: Greater rage
Battle Dancer: Dance of the springing tiger
Crusader: [none]
Dragon Shaman: Touch of vitality (remove conditions)
Fighter: [none]
Knight: Shield block +2
Marshal: [none]
Monk: Diamond body, greater flurry
Ninja: Sudden strike +6d6
Paladin: Divine might
Ranger: Combat style mastery, nature's blessing
Rogue: Sneak attack +6d6
Samurai: Improved two swords as one
Scout: Battle fortitude +2, fast movement +20 ft. (light armor), skirmish +3d6/+3 AC
Soulknife: Psychic strike +3d8
Swashbuckler: Grace +2, lucky
Swordsage: [none]
Warblade: Battle skill (opposed checks)

Level 12
Barbarian: Rage 4/day, trap sense +4
Battle Dancer: Dancer's strike (alignment)
Crusader: Steely resolve 20
Dragon Shaman: Breath weapon (6d6; 30-ft. cone or 60-ft. line), natural armor +2
Fighter: Bonus feat
Knight: Daunting challenge
Marshal: Grant move action 3/day
Monk: Abundant step, slow fall 60 ft., fast movement +40 ft. (unarmored)
Ninja: Acrobatics +4
Paladin: Remove disease 3/week
Ranger: [none]
Rogue: [none; Rogue's trap sense feature overlaps with Barbarian's]
Samurai: Kiai smite 3/day
Scout: Bonus feat
Soulknife: +3 mind blade
Swashbuckler: [none]
Swordsage: Discipline focus (insightful strike)
Warblade: [none]

Level 13
Barbarian: Damage reduction 3/--
Battle Dancer: [none]
Crusader: Mettle
Dragon Shaman: Draconic adaptation (share with allies)
Fighter: [none]
Knight: Fighting challenge +3
Marshal: [none]
Monk: Diamond soul
Ninja: Sudden strike +7d6
Paladin: Tend to mount
Ranger: Healing touch
Rogue: Sneak attack +7d6, special ability
Samurai: [none]
Scout: Skirmish +4d6/+3 AC
Soulknife: Knife to the soul
Swashbuckler: Acrobatic skill master
Swordsage: [none]
Warblade: Bonus feat

Level 14
Barbarian: Indomitable will
Battle Dancer: Dance of the crushing python
Crusader: [none]
Dragon Shaman: Breath weapon (7d6), commune with dragon spirit
Fighter: Bonus feat
Knight: Improved shield ally
Marshal: Major aura +3
Monk: Slow fall 70 ft.
Ninja: Ghost mind
Paladin: [none]
Ranger: [none]
Rogue: [none]
Samurai: Improved staredown
Scout: Hide in plain sight
Soulknife: Mind blade enhancement +3
Swashbuckler: Weakening critical
Swordsage: [none]
Warblade: [none]

Level 15
Barbarian: Trap sense +5
Battle Dancer: [none]
Crusader: [none]
Dragon Shaman: Draconic aura +4
Fighter: [none]
Knight: Bonus feat
Marshal: [none]
Monk: Quivering palm, fast movement +50 ft. (unarmored)
Ninja: Sudden strike +8d6
Paladin: Remove disease 4/week, smite evil 4/day
Ranger: 4th favored enemy
Rogue: Sneak attack +8d6
Samurai: [none]
Scout: Skirmish +4d6/+4 AC
Soulknife: Psychic strike +4d8
Swashbuckler: Dodge bonus +3
Swordsage: Quick to act +4
Warblade: Battle mastery (attacks of opportunity)

Level 16
Barbarian: Damage reduction 4/--, rage 5/day
Battle Dancer: Bonus speed +30 feet
Crusader: Steely resolve 25
Dragon Shaman: Breath weapon (8d6), Skill Focus
Fighter: Bonus feat
Knight: Bond of loyalty
Marshal: Grant move action 5/day
Monk: Ki strike (adamantine), slow fall 80 ft.
Ninja: Ghost sight
Paladin: [none]
Ranger: Freedom of movement
Rogue: Special ability
Samurai: Greater two swords as one
Scout: Bonus feat
Soulknife: +4 mind blade
Swashbuckler: [none]
Swordsage: Discipline focus (defensive stance)
Warblade: [none]

Level 17
Barbarian: Tireless rage
Battle Dancer: Dance of the soaring eagle
Crusader: [none]
Dragon Shaman: Natural armor +3
Fighter: [none]
Knight: Impetuous endurance
Marshal: [none]
Monk: Timeless body, tongue of the sun and moon
Ninja: Sudden strike +9d6
Paladin: [none]
Ranger: [none; Hide in plain sight granted by Scout 14]
Rogue: Sneak attack +9d6
Samurai: Kiai smite 4/day
Scout: Skirmish +5d6/+4 AC
Soulknife: Mind throw
Swashbuckler: Slippery mind
Swordsage: [none; Improved evasion granted by Monk 9]
Warblade: Bonus feat

Level 18
Barbarian: Trap sense +6
Battle Dancer: Dancer's strike (any)
Crusader: Smite 2/day
Dragon Shaman: Breath weapon (9d6)
Fighter: Bonus feat
Knight: [none]
Marshal: [none]
Monk: Slow fall 90 ft., fast movement +60 ft. (unarmored)
Ninja: Acrobatics +6, ki dodge
Paladin: Remove disease 5/week
Ranger: [none]
Rogue: [none; Trap sense granted by Barbarian 18]
Samurai: [none]
Scout: Free movement
Soulknife: Mind blade enhancement +4
Swashbuckler: [none]
Swordsage: [none]
Warblade: [none]

Level 19
Barbarian: Damage reduction 5/--
Battle Dancer: [none]
Crusader: [none]
Dragon Shaman: Draconic wings
Fighter: [none]
Knight: Fighting challenge +4
Marshal: [none]
Monk: Empty body
Ninja: Sudden strike +10d6
Paladin: [none]
Ranger: [none]
Rogue: Sneak attack +10d6, special ability
Samurai: [none]
Scout: Skirmish +5d6/+5 AC
Soulknife: Psychic strike +5d8
Swashbuckler: Wounding critical
Swordsage: [none]
Warblade: [none]

Level 20
Barbarian: Mighty rage, rage 6/day
Battle Dancer: Dance of death's embrace
Crusader: Steely resolve 30
Dragon Shaman: Breath weapon (10d6; 60-ft. cone or 120-ft. line), draconic aura +5
Fighter: Bonus feat
Knight: Loyal beyond death, shield block +3
Marshal: Grant move action 5/day, major aura +4
Monk: Perfect self, slow fall any distance
Ninja: Ghost walk
Paladin: Smite evil 5/day
Ranger: 5th favored enemy
Rogue: [none]
Samurai: Frightful presence
Scout: Battle fortitude +3, blindsight 30 ft., bonus feat
Soulknife: Mind blade +5
Swashbuckler: Dodge bonus +4, grace +3
Swordsage: Dual boost 3/day, quick to act +5
Warblade: Stance mastery

Maneuver/Stance/Aura Progression:
{table=head][b]Level|Crusader Maneuvers|Crusader Stances|Swordsage Maneuvers|Swordsage Stances|Warblade Maneuvers|Warblade Stances|Dragon Shaman Auras|Dragon Shaman Aura Bonus|Marshal Major Auras|Marshal Major Aura Bonus
1|5|1|6|1|3|1|3|+1|0|+1
2|5|2|7|2|4|1|3|+1|1|+1
3|6|2|8|2|5|1|4|+1|1|+1
4|6|2|9|2|5|2|4|+1|1|+1
5|7|2|10|3|6|2|5|+2|2|+1
6|7|2|11|3|6|2|5|+2|2|+1
7|8|2|12|3|7|2|6|+2|2|+2
8|8|3|13|3|7|2|6|+2|2|+2
9|9|3|14|4|8|2|7|+2|3|+2
10|9|3|15|4|8|3|7|+3|3|+2
11|10|3|16|4|9|3|7|+3|3|+2
12|10|3|17|4|9|3|7|+3|3|+2
13|11|3|18|4|10|3|7|+3|3|+2
14|11|4|19|5|10|3|7|+3|4|+3
15|12|4|20|5|11|3|7|+4|4|+3
16|12|4|21|5|11|4|7|+4|4|+3
17|13|4|22|5|12|4|7|+4|4|+3
18|13|4|23|5|12|4|7|+4|4|+3
19|14|4|24|5|13|4|7|+4|4|+3
20|14|4|25|6|13|4|7|+5|5|+4[/table]

Summary of bonuses at level 20:
Bonus feats from list: 11 from Fighter, 5 from Scout, 5 from Warblade, 3 from Knight, 3 from Monk, 3 from Ranger, 0-4 from Rogue, 30-34 total
Specific bonus feats: Skill Focus (Diplomacy) from Marshal, Track and Endurance from Ranger, Weapon Focus (mind blade), Wild Talent, Speed of Thought and Greater Weapon Focus (mind blade) from Soulknife, Weapon Finesse from Swashbuckler, Weapon Focus from Swordsage, 3x Skill Focus from Dragon Shaman, Mounted Combat from Knight, Improved Initiative from Samurai, Die Hard from Crusader, Two-Weapon Fighting line from Samurai (bastard sword/short sword only), 18 total
Initiative: +4 from Improved Initiative from Samurai, +5 from Quick to Act from Swordsage, +5 from draconic aura (senses aura) from Dragon Shaman, CHA from minor aura from Marshal, +14 (+CHA) total
AC: +4 dodge from Swashbuckler (in light armor), +3 natural armor from Dragon Shaman, +4 circumstance from major aura from Marshal, +5 competence from Scout (in light armor), +3 shield from Knight, +CHA +4 from Battledancer (unarmored and without shield), +WIS +4 from Monk (unarmored and without shield) or Swordsage (light armor and without shield), 24+CHA+WIS total (unarmored and without shield), 20+WIS total (light armor and without shield), 19 total (light armor with shield), plus lesser bonuses (+6 AC vs. traps from trap sense)
Saves: +12 to all saves from good progressions, +5 Fort from stamina aura from Dragon Shaman +3 Fort from Scout, +INT Reflex from Warblade, +3 Reflex from Swashbuckler, +2 Will from Ninja, +4 to all saves from Marshal *or* +CHA to one save from Marshal, +CHA to all saves from Paladin, +24+CHA Fort/+19+CHA/+18+CHA total, or +20+2xCHA/+15/2xCHA/+14/2xCHA total (2xCHA applies to one save at a time), plus Improved Evasion from Monk and Mettle from Crusader, the ability to succeed on a 1 from Knight, and lesser bonuses (such as +6 Reflex vs. traps via Barbarian's trap sense +6)
Skills: 4x Skill Focus feats (1 Diplomacy from Marshal, 3 limited list from Dragon Shaman), +5 Appraise and Search from Dragon Shaman (red only), +6 on Climb, Jump and Tumble from ninja, +4-5 on any two sets from Decipher Script/Knowledge/Spellcraft (Insight) or Bluff/Intimidate/Diplomacy (Presence) or Concentration (Resolve) or Listen/Spot (Senses) or Climb/Jump/Swim (Swiftness) from Dragon Shaman (+5) and Marshal (+4), +CHA on any one of all STR/DEX/CON/INT/WIS/CHA skill checks from Marshal, plus lesser bonuses (skill bonus from Ranger's favored enemy) and abilities (Skill Mastery from the Rogue, Acrobatic Skill Mastery from the Swashbuckler)
Immunities: Poisons and aging from Monk, diseases from Paladin (better than the Monk's immunities), one energy type from Dragon Shaman, grapple/slow/related effects from Scout, plus a myriad lesser abilities (remove conditions from Dragon Shaman, slippery mind from Swashbuckler).
Resistances: DR10/magic (and/or? DR5/-- from Barbarian) and spell resistance 30 from Monk, resistance to one energy type 20 (cannot be granted from dragon shaman, or you'll get resistance 25 to the element of your totem dragon, which will be superseded by the immunity from the same class), Improved Evasion from Monk, Mettle from Crusader
Movement: +10 base speed from Barbarian, +30 base speed from Battledancer, +10 base speed from Soulknife, +60 enhancement movement speed from Monk (unarmored) or +20 enhancement to movement speed from Scout (light armor), +20 circumstance from Marshal, +130 ft. total (unarmored), +90 ft. total (light armor), +70 ft. total (medium or heavy armor), climb speed equal to move speed from Ninja or spider climb from Dragon Shaman, fly speed equal to move speed (average maneuverability) from Battledancer, walk on ice equal to move speed from Dragon Shaman (white dragon only), +20-25 circumstance to fly, swim and climb speeds from Marshal (+20) or Dragon Shaman (+25), slow fall any distance and 1/day dimension door from Monk, ethereal jaunt from Ninja
Senses: Blindsight 30 ft. from Scout, see invisible/ethereal creatures from Ninja
Offensive abilities: Sneak attack +10d6 from Rogue, sudden strike +10d6 from Ninja, skirmish +5d6/+5 AC from Scout, psychic strike +5d8 from Soulknife, +25d6 +5d8 total, breath weapon 10d6 (60-ft. cone or 120-ft. line), kiai smite (+CHA to hit and damage) 4/day from Samurai, smite evil (+CHA to hit and +20 damage) 5/day from Paladin, mighty rage 6/day from Barbarian, +INT to damage, 2 STR and CON damage on a critical from Swashbuckler, pounce from Battledancer, +5 to all damage rolls from Dragon Shaman, +4 to hit from Marshal, Stunning Fist and quivering palm from Monk, +5 mind blade with +4 enhancement, Bladewind and Knife to the Soul from Soulknife, 5 favored enemies from Ranger, staredown/frightful presence from Samurai
Defensive abilities: Heal 40 damage/day from Monk, 40xCHA modifier/day from Dragon Shaman, and 20xCHA modifier/day from Paladin improved uncanny dodge from Barbarian/Rogue, bulwark of defense, improved shield ally, defensive roll from Rogue, slippery mind from Swashbuckler, Mettle and Improved Evasion from Crusader and Monk, steely resolve from Crusader, freedom of movement from Scout, fast healing 5 from Dragon Shaman
Miscellaneous: Hide in plain sight from Scout, tongue of the sun and moon from Monk

Plus everything that all nine schools of maneuvers grant you.

This list narrows if you factor in alignment restrictions:
Barbarian: Any nonlawful
Battledancer: Any chaotic
Crusader: Any non-neutral
Dragon Shaman: Any non-neutral
Knight: Any lawful
Monk: Any lawful
Paladin: Lawful Good (or its variants, Chaotic Good, Lawful Evil, or Chaotic Evil)
Samurai: Any lawful

Meaning that you choose either:
Aristocrat, Barbarian, Battledancer, Commoner, Crusader, Dragon Shaman, Expert, Fighter, Marshal, Ninja, Paladin (variant), Ranger, Rogue, Scout, Soulknife, Swashbuckler, Swordsage, Warblade, Warrior
or
Aristocrat, Commoner, Crusader, Dragon Shaman, Expert, Fighter, Knight, Marshal, Monk, Ninja, Paladin (regular variant), Ranger, Rogue, Samurai, Scout, Soulknife, Swashbuckler, Swordsage, Warblade, Warrior

Let's assume alignment restrictions don't matter for this omnistalt.

I'm still convinced that this omnistalt is not yet tier 2, because while the character has a wide array of options (some of which clash, such as the "light armor only" ones with all that use heavy armor and shields, and not all of which are useful without becoming totally MAD, but all of which are at least there to choose from), can move around and do almost anything (a head-spinningly large number of skill bonuses with the second best skill list in the game behind Factotum, three built-in movement modes done faster than any normal character can allow [and one is flight!], everything that maneuvers grant you), plus a wide array of offensive (up to +25d6 +5d8 with built-in pounce and a superior rage, a breath weapon that you can affect with metabreath feats, an actual save-or-die, two auras online at a time, plus everything that maneuvers and stances are worth) and defensive abilities (roll out of lethal damage, Evasion and Mettle, more auras, defensive maneuvers, immunities, DR, SR, resistances, high saves), which effectively makes you the king of melee combat... You still cannot open up a gate, bind an extraplanar being, make a wish, stop time, trap souls in gems or jars, teleport long ranges (although you can teleport short ranges) perform your turn when it's not your turn, and all the things Wizards do that make them tier 1 (and, by proxy, all the things that Sorcerers do that make them tier 2). Would I play this class over a Favored Soul or Spirit Shaman if I wanted killing power? You betcha. Over CoDzilla if I was playing melee? Yessiree (I strongly believe that this would be bar-none the best melee class ever). Will it ever bend your game over its knee and spank it the way a Wizard or even Sorcerer can? No, and that means that it cannot possibly be tier 1 or tier 2 (unless tier 2 was extended to mean the absolute best at what it does, so much so that even a Wizard or Cleric could not emulate its ability to do that one thing with spells, in which case this would be a low tier 2, because the thing it does better than anything else is melee, and that's still on the bottom rung).

As far as its actual combat prowess and what that means: Could this character kill a Factotum (upper tier 3 not included in this list) in single combat?
What about a Psion (tier 2)?
What about one of the Big Three (tier 1)?

Knowing the answers to those questions should tell you exactly how far combat prowess without magic gets you, even when that combat prowess is extended to ridiculous extremes.

[Myou]

I'm going to disagree somewhat with some of the other comments here and argue that it would be effectively T1. The primary question is can they solve any type of challenge presented to them? I think the answer is yes.

The ToB classes + fighter + factotum mean they automatically curbstomp any direct combat situation. (Incarnum increases this by a bit, but it is already a foregone conclusion, and of course rogue and scout help a bit here too.)

Binder+ rogue + factotum handles all social issues. One important thing to note is that due to the ToB abilities, the binder essentially can choose vestiges daily with attention almost completely to non-combat purposes which gives them more flexibility to the normal choices. Of course, no matter what, once they can, they'll bind Zceryll, but for most of the time, they will have the ability to choose vestiges as necessary. Similarly, one won't need much of the rogue's special abilities (in fact, most of the options are duplicated by features from other classes), so one effectively gets to use those for additional bonus feats.

Rogue and factotum handles traps, locks and the like.

Rogue, factotum, binder handle most of the social issues.

The remaining miscellaneous abilities are handled by the binder and incarnum abilities, since binders can change their vestiges daily and the incarnum bit can choose relevant soulmelds. Together with stances from ToB one gets effectively flying, teleportation and most other relevant abilities.

The only thing I can see them potentially having trouble with is planeshifting.

In many ways one actually is more flexible than some of the T1 classes. A wizard or an archivist without their spellbook or prayerbook is essentially close to useless. But you will be essentially undisarmable (ToB+ Soulknife), and can bind vestiges in almost any circumstance (presumably one takes Ignore Special Requirements, but most binders do that anyways).

One has other nice bits too. For example, the Truenamer's bonuses to knowledge checks will quite helpful for identifying monsters and their weaknesses, and mean that a small number of knowledge ranks spread around can be very useful.

A few of the other classes end up rounding things off. For example one gets a nice extra feat from Swashbuckler, and their luck ability helps for skill checks that one has few skill ranks in. Similar remarks apply to the various incarnum abilities. In particular, one can choose daily which soulmelds will likely help skill checks the most, such as a Vitality Belt and a Silvertongue Mask. The CA ninja helps by effectively giving buffs to a variety of skill checks permanently as well as duplicating some mildly common spells at upper levels. Similar remarks apply to the otherwise pretty weak Scout. The Marshall isn't that helpful but gives a bonus feat at first level which helps deal with some of the social issues, the auras and move action ability will go nicely with White Raven Tactics and Zceryll's summoning ability to add even more curbstomp to combat.

The key issue isn't as much that one can like a normal T1 choose which abilities to have ready to deal with any situation (although one does have some of that in terms of the binder and incarnum classes) as much as that what T1's do to a large extent is choose which T3 they will emulate that day, and the supergestalt gets essentially all of them.

This is absolutely right. In anything other than a very well optimized game with players actively making use of the best prestige classes, all day buffs, DMM, divinations and the like this creation would be a high tier 1, for all the reasons you listed. Even in a high optimisation game it would fare extremely well, as it has incredible skills, saves, HP, AC, etc, and can end many, perhaps even most, encounters with it's first turn.

People love to talk about the incredible things a wizard can do, but a wizard has to pick which incredible things he wants to do each day, and often will be very limited by his build and the like - this creation can do it all, all day every day. It doesn't even need to rest.

And with its excellent skill checks it knows where you live. :smalleek:

[Quellian-dyrae]

Will it ever bend your game over its knee and spank it the way a Wizard or even Sorcerer can? No, and that means that it cannot possibly be tier 1 or tier 2 (unless tier 2 was extended to mean the absolute best at what it does, so much so that even a Wizard or Cleric could not emulate its ability to do that one thing with spells, in which case this would be a low tier 2, because the thing it does better than anything else is melee, and that's still on the bottom rung).

I don't think I agree with this conclusion.

It won't be able to break the game in as many ways as a wizard or sorcerer, and it probably can't break the game to as great a degree as a wizard or sorcerer. However, it has options for providing a powerful contribution to most any type of encounter, it has game breaking capabilities (even an infinite loop, thanks to Crusader!)...perhaps the only definition of Tier 1/2 that it fails to meet the criteria for is having "world-changing powers".

Even then it is a matter of degree, as you have both Diplomacy and UMD, plus the raw personal power, mobility, and defenses to basically do whatever you want with essentially no one but a highly optimized wizard to gainsay you. And such a wizard would, I think, find actually stopping you to be difficult, though it could certainly survive, escape, and circumvent you.

And all of the capabilities listed are the raw powers of the class. No feats, no items, no ACFs, no optimization. Tiers are optimization-independent, and I estimate that this class easily beats every Tier 1 and Tier 2 class at the low and mid levels of optimization (not to mention low and mid levels of play).

It doesn't start to fall behind until you start pulling out such things as monster book diving for obscure abilities, combos of spells that leave you literally unkillable, and changing the face of the setting as a standard action. Even then, I'd be hard-pressed to say this class couldn't contribute.

EDIT: Actually, thinking about it more, I believe my above logic is flawed. The class wouldn't have any capabilities that exceed the scope of Tiers 3 or 4, so would, itself, technically be a Tier 3 class. It would simply be a massively overpowered and broken Tier 3 class.

[Draz74]

Know what's funny, Tylenol? You forgot to list Artificer as one of the classes you were excluding. :smallwink: Which would obviously bring the critter up to a high Tier 1. But assuming that Artificer should be excluded as well ...

Without Binder / Warlock / Incarnum, I agree the omnistalt would still be (a very high and broken) Tier 3.

But I think that Incarnum and Binder can get it up to Tier 2 (even without Zceryl, which would obviously bring it up to at least Tier 2), and that the Warlock's UMD abilities on top of everything else could get it up to effective Tier 1 status.

[Lonely Tylenol]

I don't think I agree with this conclusion.

It won't be able to break the game in as many ways as a wizard or sorcerer, and it probably can't break the game to as great a degree as a wizard or sorcerer. However, it has options for providing a powerful contribution to most any type of encounter, it has game breaking capabilities (even an infinite loop, thanks to Crusader!)...perhaps the only definition of Tier 1/2 that it fails to meet the criteria for is having "world-changing powers".

Even then it is a matter of degree, as you have both Diplomacy and UMD, plus the raw personal power, mobility, and defenses to basically do whatever you want with essentially no one but a highly optimized wizard to gainsay you. And such a wizard would, I think, find actually stopping you to be difficult, though it could certainly survive, escape, and circumvent you.

And all of the capabilities listed are the raw powers of the class. No feats, no items, no ACFs, no optimization. Tiers are optimization-independent, and I estimate that this class easily beats every Tier 1 and Tier 2 class at the low and mid levels of optimization (not to mention low and mid levels of play).

It doesn't start to fall behind until you start pulling out such things as monster book diving for obscure abilities, combos of spells that leave you literally unkillable, and changing the face of the setting as a standard action. Even then, I'd be hard-pressed to say this class couldn't contribute.

Tier 3 contributes in a wide variety of encounters, and often has one or two encounter-ending abilities under its hat; that's the very definition of T3, which I believe this character meets quite nicely (in fact, it meets both criteria, of being able to perform very well in all fields as well as having encounter-ending goodness here and there).

I have no doubt in my mind that this class is the best melee (and martial) class in the game, and if it sits at T3 (which I think it does) then it creates an exception to the rule that T1 can do anything any T3 class can do, but better (since I would be hard-pressed to find anything that a melee-focused Cleric could do that this couldn't). From level 1 to level 20, this character can contribute to a number of problems in a number of different ways, but so can the best of the T3s, which is what gives them that definition (I maintain that, without splatbook-diving and optimization, Warblade is perhaps the best class in the game at level 1, and with splatbook-diving, it's Barbarian, because their abilities are strong independent of scaling), but their ceiling is decidedly lower.

I mean, look at a level-by-level analysis:
Level 1:
Non-magic omnistalt has +3d6 damage between Sneak Attack, Sudden Strike and Skirmish, a rage, a smite, two weapon focuses, finesse, Flurry of Blows, two auras, some feats and a slew of lesser bonuses. Oh, and maneuvers.
Wizard has Color Spray, Charm Person, Sleep, Cause Fear, Silent Image, Grease, Obscuring Mist, Jump and Disguise Self. To name a few. Anything that scales by level is weak, however, and even most of the better of these abilities will be rendered obsolete in a few levels, when the HD of the average creature exceeds that of this (which means that these spell slots will quickly be relegated to buffs).

Level 6 (I'd do this at 5th level, but you get iteratives to the omnistalt at level 6):
Non-magic omnistalt has +8d6 +1d8 damage between Sneak Attack, Sudden Strike, Skirmish and Psychic Strike (assuming that it's moving at least 10 feet and striking a flat-footed enemy with its psychic weapon), plus lots of cool maneuvers (which grant Swift Invisibility, Blades of Fire, and even some other cool effects), more rages and smites, some favored enemies, some more feats, you can breathe fire, blur, various lesser bonuses start to come online (dodge, grace, battle fortitude, shield other, etc), auras improve, lesser bonuses (enough to mention twice).
Wizard has Resist Energy, Fog Cloud, Glitterdust, Web, Detect Thoughts, See Invisibility, Invisibility, Mirror Image, Command Undead, Scare, Alter Self, Darkvision, Spider Climb, Knock, animal buffs, Fly, Haste, Slow, Phantom Steed, Hold Person, Suggestion, Displacement, Invisibility Sphere, and others. Wizards are scaling (mostly) with the damage output of the omnistalt at this point, although it's clear the omnistalt does it better (at least as far as single-target damage is concerned).

Level 11:
Non-magic omnistalt takes 11 on every d20 roll, does +15d6 +3d8 with Sneak Attack, Sudden Strike, Skirmish, and Psychic Strike and can now do it on a pounce, tons of goodies from maneuvers (move action short-range teleportation, flight for 1 round, a climb speed equal to your land speed (which is now exceeding normative ranges on all fronts), blindsense, skills are all pretty much auto-pass, more rages, smites, favored enemies, bonuses continue to scale, auras improve to +3 and +2, DR comes online, you're immune to an energy type and a lot of minor stuff, you are officially the best thing at carving things up, bar none, at least when circumstances allow.
Wizard has Lesser Globe of Invulnerability, Stoneskin, Dimension Door, Solid Fog, Scrying, Charm Monster, Greater Invisibility, Phantasmal Killer, Shadow Conjuration, Animate Dead, Enervation, Fear, Polymorph, Dismissal, Cloudkill, Teleport, Lesser Planar Binding, Dominate Person, Hold Monster, Persistent Image, Baleful Polymorph, Fabricate, Overland Flight, Greater Dispel Magic, Planar Binding, Wall of Iron, True Seeing, Mass Suggestion, Contingency, Permanent Image, Circle of Death, Eyebite, Disintegrate, Stone to Flesh, Flesh to Stone, mass animal buffs, and others.

Level 17:
Non-magic omnistalt learns to fly at this level, is doing an absurd amount of damage (under ideal conditions) with Sneak Attack, Sudden Strike, Skirmish and Psychic Strike, all movement forms you possess are Flash levels, you have access to every conceivable maneuver, you *make* your saves (even on a 1), all your bonuses scale to their logical conclusions at this point, you stopped failing your usual skill checks awhile ago and are now either breaching into epic checks with those skills or working through a second skill set that you're no longer really failing, myriad lesser bonuses. Really all you're missing are the capstones, most of which are the final point of bonuses from these previous effects.
Wizards have Spell Turning, Plane Shift, Greater Teleport, Mass Hold Person, Insanity, Mass Invisibility, Ethereal Jaunt, Limited Wish, Mind Blank, Prismatic Wall, Greater Planar Binding, Trap the Soul, Moment of Prescience, Mass Charm Monster, Demand, Sympathy, Polymorph Any Object, Disjunction, Prismatic Sphere, Gate, Summon Monster IX and all lesser Summon Monsters, Teleportation Circle, Dominate Monster, Mass Hold Monster, Shades, Weird, Astral Projection, Soul Bind, Wail of the Banshee, Shapechange, Time Stop, and Wish. To name a few. All of the spells and effects that scale by level have scaled, and while the damage you can produce has not scaled with the damage output of the omnistalt, you can still do it at a longer range, to a wider range of people, a number of different ways, while the omnistalt is still moving within 30 feet (60 feet with feats, which aren't factored in) and hitting things. You've been flying for 12 levels by this point, and you've been doing it in style: your Phantom Steed moves twice as fast as the unarmored omnistalt, by default. While the omnistalt is getting things with epic-level skill checks and capstone class features that are certainly not to be disregarded, they are still strictly inferior to everything that the wizard is doing (as has been the case for nearly 15 levels now), and the best of them (diplomacy abuse, flight, etc) mimic some of the mid-op 3rd-level and 4th-level spells.

Keep in mind that this is all off the core list, so I'm still assuming no book diving is occurring on behalf of the wizard (even though all the books were scoured to procure the omnistalt list). I'm aware that a lot of the most broken stuff is in core, but that means that by default a wizard has all this broken stuff; almost no games ban PHB, and those that do are usually the people that know better (which means they've been playing for many years and have undoubtedly played with broken wizards many a time), which is, again, a narrow field.

Barring purposefully unoptimized spell selection or direct damage emphasis, any wizard that prepares level-appropriate spells at each level (that is to say, level 4 spells in level 4 spell slots) will be able to completely alter the setting by default, leading up to 13 and 17, when the wizard has the god of his choosing on speed dial (if you're optimizing, this happens several levels earlier). Sorcerers can do some of these things, but not all of these things at the same time (which is why they are by definition T2). Non-magic omnistalt can do none of these things (barring UMD usage, which has never been enough to regard someone as T1 or T2, or we'd see the Rogue up there).

EDIT: Spoilering the level-by-level analysis (so you can pull each level up separately).

Also:


EDIT: Actually, thinking about it more, I believe my above logic is flawed. The class wouldn't have any capabilities that exceed the scope of Tiers 3 or 4, so would, itself, technically be a Tier 3 class. It would simply be a massively overpowered and broken Tier 3 class.

Basically this. The omnistalt is basically only as powerful as its most powerful class feature (which would be maneuver progressions), which are tier 3. Not even a combination of all its lesser features help raise the ceiling beyond that point, and its most powerful features continue to pale in comparison to the only feature that matters in the higher tiers: full spellcasting progression.


Know what's funny, Tylenol? You forgot to list Artificer as one of the classes you were excluding. :smallwink: Which would obviously bring the critter up to a high Tier 1.

Yes, but infusions are quite obviously a form of magic under this criteria, even if they are not explicitly divine or arcane.