Mounted archer/ tracker. Need ideas.

[Asura101]

I just died in my friends campaign. So for a new character I want to make a mounted archer/ bounty hunter kind of character that would track down his targets because it would fit in to were the party is now but i'v had no luck finding something I like.

I looked at making a fighter because of all the feats it would get but I didn't really get the the hunter/tracker vibe. Also half the party are fighters.

I also looked at ranger. It would probably be what I want but I really don't ever see myself using the spells.

Is there a class or combination of classes ( homebrew or in a book) that would best suit this kind of character.

We use 3.5e and start at level 3.

[gorfnab]

The basic Supermount can cover tracking and mounted archery pretty well. If you take the Noble Heart Paladin substitution (Champions of Valor) you can get Track for free and Survival as a class skill. This would free up a feat for Point Blank Shot. This would then allow you to buy a Precise (Magic Item Compendium) Bow. There is also the Smiting Arrow substitution (Drg #349) that allows you to make Smite Evil attacks at range.

LG Strongheart Halfling
1. Paladin - Mounted Combat, Track
2. Paladin
3. Paladin - Skill Focus: Handle Animal (prereq for Beast Master)
4. Paladin
5. Paladin
6. Beastmaster - Devoted Tracker
7. Beastmaster
8. Wild Plains Outrider
9. Wild Plains Outrider - Mounted Archery
10. Wild Plains Outrider
11. Halfling Outrider
12. Halfling Outrider - Natural Bond
13. Halfling Outrider
14. Halfling Outrider
15. Halfling Outrider - Ride By Attack (or some other feat)
16. Halfling Outrider
17. Halfling Outrider
18. Halfling Outrider - Spirited Charge (or some other feat)
19. Halfling Outrider
20. Halfling Outrider

Special Mount: 18th level Paladin = Paladin 5 + Wild Plains 3 + Half-Out 10
Animal Companion: 18th level Druid = Beast Master 5 + Natural Bond 3 + Half-Out 10

Another Dragon Mount option can be found on page 136 of the Draconomicon.
You would be able to use it starting at level 11 with this build
(equivalent paladin level 9 for mount abilities).

[INoKnowNames]

I just died in my friends campaign. So for a new character I want to make a mounted archer/ bounty hunter kind of character that would track down his targets because it would fit in to were the party is now but i'v had no luck finding something I like.

I also looked at ranger. It would probably be what I want but I really don't ever see myself using the spells.

Is there a class or combination of classes ( homebrew or in a book) that would best suit this kind of character.

We use 3.5e and start at level 3.

..... You don't even -get- spells if you only have 10 Wisdom. *Edit* Dang. Will is the only bad ranger save. Still, there are probably worse things to worry about.

So.... Ranger with your lowest *edit* positive stat in Wisdom *with that negative stat most likely going into Charisma? You could take some levels in Scout and take the Swift Hunter, and go to town?

Although, now that I think about it, there are some Ranger specific spells in the Spell Compendium and such that actually do help Archery -quite- a bit. I wouldn't overlook them without a 2nd, or even a 3rd read.

[gomipile]

How about a Divination focused specialist wizard with the Smiting Spell feat?

[Soranar]

Well, as you've noticed, a ranger would be a decent choice.

If you don't want the spells you can trade them away for bonus feats, it's an alternate class feature found in complete champion.

You also get the benefit of track and survival skills which is consistent with a bounty hunter and you can use your animal companion as a mount.

Also being a ranger gives you the archery feats for free (without meeting their requirements) which is a great boon.

As soon as you can afford it, get an energy bow and you're set

Other options

Go for a DEX only build (requires losts of feats) and take the crossbow sniper feat to add half your DEX to damage. Being dex focused and mounted, you can drop STR entirely and you can afford to take a small race with low movement and a DEX bonus

Knowing all this, I hope your DM allows flaws

Here's an example

Race: Strongheart Halfling
Alignment: Lawful Good (you can take an ACF for a different alignment)

STATS (assuming 32pts buy)

STR 6 (dump stat)
DEX 20 (main stat)
CON 14
INT 12
WIS 8 (dump, no spellcasting)
CHA 14

Mount: take a riding dog as a mount, being medium you can ride it in dungeons and, unlike a horse, its attack doesn't require special feats

Alternate class features, substitution levels

holy warrior: same as the ranger ACF mentioned before, trade spellcasting for bonus feats (CC)
noble heart, level 3 substitution: gain track, add survival to your skills, traded for divine health
curse breaker: trade remove disease / week for remove curse /day

Progression

1 Paladin Weapon focus: Light crossbow, Crossbow Sniper, Point Blank shot, Rapid Shot
2 Paladin
3 Paladin Rapid reload

Feats to consider for future levels

-from smite to song: I cannot overstate how good this is, you trade a useless class feature (for your build) for the bard's best ability and it scales. All of your fighter buddies will love having you around and the effect works on you too (you can also take extra smites to get more uses)

-manyshot, improved precise shot

Magic items to consider

-if you can't take flaws you can drop rapid reload and use the quick loading enchantment to keep getting iteratives with your crossbow but it'll take up a +1 enchantment

-Spitting is really good for your build (the DEX bonus to damage applies to every bolt, just like STR would on a composite longbow)
-Force bolts: DR and incorporeal no longer bothers you
-Phasing: obstacles and shields no longer bother you
-the gnomish scope lets you ignore 2 range increments when shooting (only 150 gp, makes your effective range over 300 ft)

[The Dark Fiddler]

As the DM for Asura's game, I'd like to note that we don't have access to the entire library of 3.5 books. We've got core, Complete Warrior, Complete Adventurer, Complete Mage, Magic of Incarnum, Tome of Battle, Tome of Magic, and Book of Vile Darkness.

I'd also like to note that for a different player (whose character happened to die at the same time as Asura's, sadly) I house-ruled that he got half his Dex to damage on ranged attacks, and let him take a feat that gave him full Dex to damage instead, as well as the ability to power attack with bows. Might be relevant.

[nedz]

Ranger seems a good fit, Full BAB, some archery support and plenty of skill points. The spells are very good if you have access to the Spc, but only average otherwise. If all you want from Ranger is tracking then that can be bought as a feat - it is keyed off the survival skill though.

There are several routes for archery, but they all eat about 6 feats. Mounted combat would take a few more. So you are going to be feat starved.
Ranger is probably best for the machine gun style using rapid shot. Scout is another option for the one precision based attack per round. These two classes can be combined in whats called a swift hunter build, but that might be a bit strong in an all fighter party.

There are a few reasonable PrCs in CDiv, unfortunatly that doesn't appear to be available.

[Randomguy]

Druid with the swift hunter ACF gets you track as a bonus feat, as well as fast movement and wis to AC, in exchange for armour proficiency and wildshape. It seems to cover the "tracker" part well, and animal companions are great mounts. Sadly, you said you didn't want spells, and you'd need to be some sort of elf for bow proficiency.

You could be a barbarian with an ACF that trades rage for archery combat style and the wild cohort feat for a good mount.

You could be a spel-less ranger, using either the variant in complete champion, which gives 4 bonus feats, or the one in complete warrior, which gives a few abilities. (freedom of movement 1/day at higher levels, fast movement, an enhancement bonus to an ability score, so on).

Wilderness rogue with the wild cohort feat might also work, since you've got sneak attack to boost damage. Scout, for the same reason, would be good, but you'd need a way to full attack from the back of a mount and the easiest way to do that (wild plains outrider) requires an animal companion.

[Ruinix]

ELF.
Ranger. (ask your DM if u can use the Mystic Ranger variant, the spells are too damn good for leave aside, specially with the spell compendium book.)
ELF PALADIN substitution, witch can swap Smite Evil for Ranged Smite Evil.

[Asura101]

ELF.
Ranger. (ask your DM if u can use the Mystic Ranger variant, the spells are too damn good for leave aside, specially with the spell compendium book.)
ELF PALADIN substitution, witch can swap Smite Evil for Ranged Smite Evil.

Like I said I really don't see myself using spells and truthfully I'm now really big into casting anyway. My DM and I have talked it over and I think we got something. But thanks for your help.

[Asura101]

Well, as you've noticed, a ranger would be a decent choice.

If you don't want the spells you can trade them away for bonus feats, it's an alternate class feature found in complete champion.

You also get the benefit of track and survival skills which is consistent with a bounty hunter and you can use your animal companion as a mount.

Also being a ranger gives you the archery feats for free (without meeting their requirements) which is a great boon.

As soon as you can afford it, get an energy bow and you're set

Other optionsu

Go for a DEX only build (requires losts of feats) and take the crossbow sniper feat to add half your DEX to damage. Being dex focused and mounted, you can drop STR entirely and you can afford to take a small race with low movement and a DEX bonus

Knowing all this, I hope your DM allows flaws

Here's an example

Race: Strongheart Halfling
Alignment: Lawful Good (you can take an ACF for a different alignment)

STATS (assuming 32pts buy)

STR 6 (dump stat)
DEX 20 (main stat)
CON 14
INT 12
WIS 8 (dump, no spellcasting)
CHA 14

Mount: take a riding dog as a mount, being medium you can ride it in dungeons and, unlike a horse, its attack doesn't require special feats

Alternate class features, substitution levels

holy warrior: same as the ranger ACF mentioned before, trade spellcasting for bonus feats (CC)
noble heart, level 3 substitution: gain track, add survival to your skills, traded for divine health
curse breaker: trade remove disease / week for remove curse /day

Progression

1 Paladin Weapon focus: Light crossbow, Crossbow Sniper, Point Blank shot, Rapid Shot
2 Paladin
3 Paladin Rapid reload

Feats to consider for future levels

-from smite to song: I cannot overstate how good this is, you trade a useless class feature (for your build) for the bard's best ability and it scales. All of your fighter buddies will love having you around and the effect works on you too (you can also take extra smites to get more uses)

-manyshot, improved precise shot

Magic items to consider

-if you can't take flaws you can drop rapid reload and use the quick loading enchantment to keep getting iteratives with your crossbow but it'll take up a +1 enchantment

-Spitting is really good for your build (the DEX bonus to damage applies to every bolt, just like STR would on a composite longbow)
-Force bolts: DR and incorporeal no longer bothers you
-Phasing: obstacles and shields no longer bother you
-the gnomish scope lets you ignore 2 range increments when shooting (only 150 gp, makes your effective range over 300 ft)

Thanks a lot. This really help me think of what I'm doing. I'll be going with the ranger class without the spells in complete champion with the added feats it gives me it would help with some of the main combat feats. Also my DM is letting me pick flaws with was also a very big help.

[Asura101]

As the DM for Asura's game, I'd like to note that we don't have access to the entire library of 3.5 books. We've got core, Complete Warrior, Complete Adventurer, Complete Mage, Magic of Incarnum, Tome of Battle, Tome of Magic, and Book of Vile Darkness.

I'd also like to note that for a different player (whose character happened to die at the same time as Asura's, sadly) I house-ruled that he got half his Dex to damage on ranged attacks, and let him take a feat that gave him full Dex to damage instead, as well as the ability to power attack with bows. Might be relevant.

Yeah sorry about that I forgot what books we had at the time of making this, and I totally forgot about your dex to damage house rule.

[INoKnowNames]

Yeah sorry about that I forgot what books we had at the time of making this, and I totally forgot about your dex to damage house rule.

Core gives you the Ranger. And Complete Adventurer gives you a few little spells to help with your Archery. More importantly, it also gives you Scout. So all you need is the Swift Hunter Feat, really. I wonder if it would be possible to look that up on the internet for free... (http://dndtools.eu/feats/complete-scoundrel--60/swift-hunter--2868/)

Still, being able to Power Attack with a Bow? Some people would kill for an advantage like that. And Dex to Damage is nice, even if it costs a feat... I bet there's someway to wrap all of this together in one build.. It would be -VERY- tight on Feats, as most styles are, but the bonus feats from Ranger and Scout help with that just a bit, and mundane needs all the help it can get.

Even without Swift Hunter and the Scout, I'd still go with Ranger. I can't think of a class that can get more "Archer/Tracker" than a Ranger without a whole lot of hooplah. Plus, you get your own mount naturally. Not the strongest (wasn't the animal companion a Ranger thing first? Why does the Druid suddenly do it better? :smallconfused:), but still free.

[Asura101]

As the DM for Asura's game, I'd like to note that we don't have access to the entire library of 3.5 books. We've got core, Complete Warrior, Complete Adventurer, Complete Mage, Magic of Incarnum, Tome of Battle, Tome of Magic, and Book of Vile Darkness.

I'd also like to note that for a different player (whose character happened to die at the same time as Asura's, sadly) I house-ruled that he got half his Dex to damage on ranged attacks, and let him take a feat that gave him full Dex to damage instead, as well as the ability to power attack with bows. Might be relevant.


The basic Supermount can cover tracking and mounted archery pretty well. If you take the Noble Heart Paladin substitution (Champions of Valor) you can get Track for free and Survival as a class skill. This would free up a feat for Point Blank Shot. This would then allow you to buy a Precise (Magic Item Compendium) Bow. There is also the Smiting Arrow substitution (Drg #349) that allows you to make Smite Evil attacks at range.

LG Strongheart Halfling
1. Paladin - Mounted Combat, Track
2. Paladin
3. Paladin - Skill Focus: Handle Animal (prereq for Beast Master)
4. Paladin
5. Paladin
6. Beastmaster - Devoted Tracker
7. Beastmaster
8. Wild Plains Outrider
9. Wild Plains Outrider - Mounted Archery
10. Wild Plains Outrider
11. Halfling Outrider
12. Halfling Outrider - Natural Bond
13. Halfling Outrider
14. Halfling Outrider
15. Halfling Outrider - Ride By Attack (or some other feat)
16. Halfling Outrider
17. Halfling Outrider
18. Halfling Outrider - Spirited Charge (or some other feat)
19. Halfling Outrider
20. Halfling Outrider

Special Mount: 18th level Paladin = Paladin 5 + Wild Plains 3 + Half-Out 10
Animal Companion: 18th level Druid = Beast Master 5 + Natural Bond 3 + Half-Out 10

Another Dragon Mount option can be found on page 136 of the Draconomicon.
You would be able to use it starting at level 11 with this build
(equivalent paladin level 9 for mount abilities).


I really like the whole paladin into outrider character and I will definitely will be using this to make a character in the future

[Ruinix]

Like I said I really don't see myself using spells and truthfully I'm now really big into casting anyway. My DM and I have talked it over and I think we got something. But thanks for your help.


np men :)
but just a tip, i said the same 4 years ago when i start a campaing with a ranger char and i toke the ranger variant that trade the spellcasting for a few more feats and i still sorrow for that XDDD
the spells aren't so much trouble and the most important of them are swift/instant cast so they don't take away full attack.

just take a look of the spells for ranger of the spellcompendium. spells like guided shot, hunter's mercy, find the gap, etc etc.

[Particle_Man]

I would second the scout. No spells, more skills, extra damage when you move (good for Shot on the Run tactics) - not sure that works while mounted but if so, extra bonus!

If you are outdoors a lot race doesn't matter. If in dungeons a lot, then halfling and riding dog is a good bet.

[DeathOfAMailman]

Unfortunately, the stupid, stupid Scout errata says that Skirmish damage is not activated while mounted.

[INoKnowNames]

Unfortunately, the stupid, stupid Scout errata says that Skirmish damage is not activated while mounted.

They have the book. They didn't say they had the errata. :smallwink: