Druid life

[Asha'man]

As I attempt to create a world for my campaign I noticed I only had two characters created: Male Halfling druid CN and female elf berserker TN .

Before anyone says anything i already know those characters sound weird but I didn't want my first campaign to be filled with munchkins like in 8-bit theater.:smallannoyed:

My question is what character do you people of the forum think that will go along nicely with those two, four characters more needed as PC's for my friends.:smallamused:

[Gavinfoxx]

What class is the Berserker?

What books do you have available?

[hivedragon]

As I attempt to create a world for my campaign I noticed I only had two characters created: Male Halfling druid CN and female elf berserker TN .

Before anyone says anything i already know those characters sound weird but I didn't want my first campaign to be filled with munchkins like in 8-bit theater.:smallannoyed:

I'm not sure why you'd say the characters are weird. But Druids are probably the most munchkiny class in the core rule books.


My question is what character do you people of the forum think that will go along nicely with those two, four characters more needed as PC's for my friends.:smallamused:

I'd like some more info, like what books are available to you, but you'd probably benefit from a rogue as party face and trap-finder.

[Asha'man]

What class is the Berserker?

Sorry man I meant Barbarian.:smalltongue:


What books do you have available?

I am a complete beginner so I only have The Players handbook 3.5, DM's Guide and Monster manual 3. This is my first campaign so I just wanted to use the core classes but i have heard about the complete arcane and complete fighter...etc. books but I don't really have the cash to buy them.

[Gullara]

I'm actually playing a female elf barbarian right now. She's a tad violent, and is covered from head to toe in scars. Elves are not anything near pansies where she's from. :smalltongue:

And druids are rather quite powerful because they have shapeshifting, class features, and full casting. That's being brief of course.

Anyway, suggestion time. I like the idea of a goblin ranger. Use a bow, max Hide and Move Silently. Perhaps use poisons. Also, full body camo paint and be a bit on the feral side. *nodnod*

[rmg22893]

The people i hang out with said that those were wierd and asked me why not just make an elf druid a half-orc barbarian or halfling rogue etc...

How exactly are druids munchkiny?:smallbiggrin:

They can do basically everything the other core classes can do, and are often better at it than the class that was designed to do that thing.

[Gavinfoxx]

Okay, how about this:

1.) Let the players make their own characters.
2.) Don't worry overly much, yet about the 'trap' options or the unbalanced options those books present (and yes, those three books you have ARE unbalanced).
3.) Worry about everyone getting used to the rules and making characters and you used to running monsters and setting up terrain and stuff.

Once you have a basic grasp on the rules, THEN you can worry about the fact that the books you have are just about the three most unbalanced books in the entire game, and THEN you can worry about figuring out what sort of story all you want to tell, and what the assumed power level of characters to tell that story would be, and what books you need to get a variety of options at that particular, normalized power level.

YES, Clerics, Druids and Wizards are the most potentially powerful/munchkinny classes in the game, and Paladins and Monks are some of the weakest classes in the game, but that doesn't matter when you are just learning the game. When you are just learning, pick stuff with a bunch of varied abilities to get a handle on it. When you get an idea as to what sort of game you want to run, then use splatbooks to help you target the right tools for the job.

[Kuulvheysoon]

I'm actually playing a female elf barbarian right now. She's a tad violent, and is covered from head to toe in scars. Elves are not anything near pansies where she's from. :smalltongue:



This.

One of my favorite characters (from one of my players) was an elf barbarian/wildrunner (RotW).

[Asha'man]

Okay, how about this:

1.) Let the players make their own characters.
2.) Don't worry overly much, yet about the 'trap' options or the unbalanced options those books present (and yes, those three books you have ARE unbalanced).
3.) Worry about everyone getting used to the rules and making characters and you used to running monsters and setting up terrain and stuff.

Once you have a basic grasp on the rules, THEN you can worry about the fact that the books you have are just about the three most unbalanced books in the entire game, and THEN you can worry about figuring out what sort of story all you want to tell, and what the assumed power level of characters to tell that story would be, and what books you need to get a variety of options at that particular, normalized power level.

YES, Clerics, Druids and Wizards are the most potentially powerful/munchkinny classes in the game, and Paladins and Monks are some of the weakest classes in the game, but that doesn't matter when you are just learning the game. When you are just learning, pick stuff with a bunch of varied abilities to get a handle on it. When you get an idea as to what sort of game you want to run, then use splatbooks to help you target the right tools for the job.

....The three core books that were suggested to me are unbalanced? But as you say i guess it doesn't matter yet. I guess they can create their own characters but 2 need help as they don't read anything bigger than a kid story pocketbook.

I actually have a simple campaign in my mind.

"In the forest of spirits lies a tomb where a dangerous being was sealed. The seal, of mortal make, is weak and needs to be replaced after every 50 years. But this time a great force wishes to free the sealed being and thus the lives of those that lives in the world is in peril. The only hope is the success of a small druid on pilgrimage to the seal and the companions he may find"

plot creation is cakewalk for me, it is the leveling that worries me though.
In my head the campaign would go like this: Overworld forest lvl 1-5,
Undrground Ruins lvl 6-15 and lastly Otherworldly plane lvl 16-20

what do you guys think?

[Gavinfoxx]

Yes, the three books upon which the almost entirety of the game is based, offer most of the most dramatically unbalanced, overpowered, and underpowered stuff in the entire game. The game actually gets more balanced if you ban most of the classes and spells in the Player's Handbook, and open up 'everything else'.

This makes sense because the designers got better at making balanced content as time went on, and the PHB was basically their first attempt at making anything whatsoever for 3.5e. For example, several classes that are essentially direct replacements for the core classes were made, at reduced or higher power levels (as needed for the class in question), came out as the game matured.

Read this, to help set and calibrate your expectations:

http://antioch.snow-fall.com/~Endarire/DnD/Challenging%203.5%20and%20Pathfinder%20Parties%201 %2031%2011.doc

Also this:

http://thealexandrian.net/wordpress/587/roleplaying-games/dd-calibrating-your-expectations-2

[Asha'man]

Yes, the three books upon which the almost entirety of the game is based, offer most of the most dramatically unbalanced, overpowered, and underpowered stuff in the entire game. The game actually gets more balanced if you ban most of the classes and spells in the Player's Handbook, and open up 'everything else'.

This makes sense because the designers got better at making balanced content as time went on, and the PHB was basically their first attempt at making anything whatsoever for 3.5e. For example, several classes that are essentially direct replacements for the core classes were made, at reduced or higher power levels (as needed for the class in question), came out as the game matured.

Read this, to help set and calibrate your expectations:

http://antioch.snow-fall.com/~Endarire/DnD/Challenging%203.5%20and%20Pathfinder%20Parties%201 %2031%2011.doc

Also this:

http://thealexandrian.net/wordpress/587/roleplaying-games/dd-calibrating-your-expectations-2


This make s it look like non-magic users suck completely. So I'm guessing cross-classing must be done a little before mid-level. From what i saw from the file that was shown to me my campaign will only last up to lvl 12 or 15 at most.

These I never saw in the books:

Binzero: Human Cleric5/Combat Medic1/Radiant Servant of Pelor10/Combat Medic+4/Hierophant1

Boddyknock: Strongheart Halfling Transmuter4/Master Specialist1/Incantatrix10/Halruaan Elder1/Archmage2

Daiden: Winged Wood Elf Rogue1/Swordsage20


anyways if the druid is unbalanced do you know an alternate and parallel class
to the druid class and maybe a link to show its stats and feats and description...etc..

[Soranar]

Basically, the following classes are just really really good in core

Druid, Cleric, Wizard, Sorcerer (not as broken as wizard but close)

Their tuned down (core) versions are the following

Ranger, Paladin, Bard

Other than that, you need to open up splatbooks to get more balance

N.B. Considering most 3.5 books are out of print, I recommend you turn your search to their electronic version via google. I can give you a link to do so but it's really not that hard to find them yourself.

[SilverLeaf167]

In my experience (and that of many others as well), even if the classes and resources are unbalanced, that doesn't automatically mean the party will be, especially if the players are inexperienced as well. If the casters focus on blasting and buffs, for example, they probably won't overshadow the rest of the party in combat and will in fact make them even more powerful with buffs.

With my players' optimization level and preferred play style, the melee combatant has actually been the most useful character in every single campaign. A blaster Wizard and a Dragonfire Adept have been second most powerful.

So yeah, sorry if you mentioned it already but I missed it, how experienced are the players? How much optimization can you expect from them?

[Asha'man]

we are all of us first timers, noobs, etc....

[SilverLeaf167]

we are all of us first timers, noobs, etc....
Then the players most likely won't do/build anything too unbalanced. There are some usual "nooby" archetypes for those different classes...

Barbarians will most likely just rage, charge and Power Attack things. She should be fine as long as you give her enough magical equipment. I'd recommend making her a human though (elves aren't very good barbarians), but if she wants to be an elf, no prob.
Druids usually fill some kind of support role. If he doesn't go book-diving to find the most powerful Animal Companions and Wild Shape forms, he probably won't be too powerful. A Spirit Shaman would be a suitable replacement, but it's from Complete Divine and I don't think you can find it online.
A blaster Wizard or Sorcerer, with some utility and buff spells, should be fine. (damage is one of the least OP things casters can do.)
You'll probably want some kind of skill-monkey too. In core, a Rogue is best for this role. Encourage him to use Two-Weapon Fighting to get as much use of his Sneak Attack as possible.

BTW, when you say you have the Monster Manual 3, which of the books below do you actually mean?
a. Monster Manual, Core Rulebook III
b. Monster Manual, 3.0 Edition
c. Monster Manual 3?

a. is the actual core book, b. is an older version and c. is a supplement book.

[Gavinfoxx]

Serph, are you still here?

Yea, my basic idea was to realize 'D&D 3.5e is a very imbalanced game that can be made more balanced with lots of work. But that doesn't matter right now, just get your feet wet.'

Anyway, how familiar are you with the various online resources? www.d20srd.org?

[Asha'man]

Serph, are you still here?

Yea, my basic idea was to realize 'D&D 3.5e is a very imbalanced game that can be made more balanced with lots of work. But that doesn't matter right now, just get your feet wet.'

Anyway, how familiar are you with the various online resources? www.d20srd.org?

That is what I'm doing now Gavin. I've managed to find a gaming group on facebook in my country though have yet to find one in my city. Also I'm getting experience from the forum via PbP. I've been reading pathfinder and managed to....procure....... a few adventure/campaign modules that me and my friends might use.

On A side note I haven't managed to encounter you elsewhere on the forums unlike the others. Just an idle thought.

[gomipile]

anyways if the druid is unbalanced do you know an alternate and parallel class
to the druid class and maybe a link to show its stats and feats and description...etc..

Well, if you like wildshape, the Wildshape variant Ranger is good(source:http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#ranger.) If you'd rather just have the druid spells, then the Spirit Shaman is your best bet(It is in Complete Divine.)

[Gavinfoxx]

Well. There are lots of places you can go online for play by post. I'm sure you will find me at some of these places.

http://www.dndonlinegames.com/forumdisplay.php?f=280
http://paizo.com/paizo/messageboards/community/campaigns/recruitment
http://www.myth-weavers.com/forumdisplay.php?f=141&sy=3
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=51
http://www.thetangledweb.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?13-Recruiting-Office-Find-and-Post-New-Games
http://forum.rpg.net/forumdisplay.php?32-Recruitment-and-Meta-Threads
http://www.unlimitedrpgs.com/forums2/viewforum.php?f=131
http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?board=20.0

[gomipile]

anyways if the druid is unbalanced do you know an alternate and parallel class
to the druid class and maybe a link to show its stats and feats and description...etc..

Well, if you like wildshape, the Wildshape variant Ranger is good(source:http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#ranger.) If you'd rather just have the druid spells, then the Spirit Shaman is your best bet(It is in Complete Divine.)

[Gavinfoxx]

That's part of the 'looking for options to balance things later' choice.

Like, for example, I would consider all of these classes roughly 'balanced' with one another, in the middle ground of power and versatility level:

Bard (Player's Handbook)
Beguiler (Player's Handbook II)
Dread Necromancer (Heroes of Horror)
Binder (Tome of Magic, WITHOUT the Online Vestiges)
Shadowcaster (Tome of Magic)

Druid, if you combine as many of these nerfs as you can manage:
Shapeshift Variant (Player's Handbook II)
Deadly Hunter Variant (Unearthed Arcana, SRD)
Druidic Avenger Variant (Unearthed Arcana, SRD)
Spontaneous Divine Caster Variant (Unearthed Arcana, SRD)
Spontaneous Affliction (Exemplars of Evil)
Spontaneous Rejuvenation (Player's Handbook II)

Shaman (Oriental Adventures)
Shugenja (Complete Divine)
Crusader (Tome of Battle)
Swordsage (Tome of Battle)
Warblade (Tome of Battle)
Factotum (Dungeonscape)
Duskblade (Player's Handbook II)
Totemist (Magic of Incarnum)
Incarnate (Magic of Incarnum)
Psychic Warrior (Expanded Psionics Handbook, SRD)
Psychic Rogue (Online, see: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20040723b and http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20040723c )
Wilder (Expanded Psionics Handbook, SRD)
Ardent (Complete Psionic)
Wildshape Ranger (Unearthed Arcana, SRD)

Nightstalker (Races of Ansalon, a Dragonlance book)
Summoner (Pathfinder)
Alchemist (Pathfinder)
Inquisitor (pathfinder)
Magus (Pathfinder)

[Crasical]

Also, Barbarians can't be TN.

[Asha'man]

Wait it said on the core rule book 3.5e any non lawful can be barbarian.

[Crasical]

...So it is. Hm. All these years I'd thought that it said they had to be chaotic.

[Eldariel]

The archetypal party has a divine caster, an arcane caster, a warrior and a skill monkey. They all offer something that's hard to replicate with other classes; arcane casters have potent magic like Teleport, Scrying, Invisibility, etc. that's incredibly hard to access otherwise. Divinists have access to restorative, resurrective and healing magic for sustain. Rogue is the only class that can find relevant non-magical traps (need 1 level only tho). Warriors...well, this slot can be filled with any frontliner really. It's the only one without irreplaceable capabilities so a Cleric or a Druid works too but this is also where Barbarians, Fighters & company go.


Given in Core the only real trapfinder is Rogue, that generally goes to the skill monkey slot at least to some degree; Rogue/Ranger, Rogue/Bard, Rogue/Wizard all function too if pure Rogue isn't to the player's liking (though pure Rogue is just fine; probably the most balanced of core classes and quite well-designed too aside from the silly level 20).

Arcanist slot is obviously a Wizard or a Sorcerer. Bard can do some cool stuff but misses out on some of more the more important stuff Wizards get. Bard's also a decent divinist making them decent sixth wheels.

Divinist slot is a Druid or a Cleric. Druid basically comes with everything but Restoration (for which you can e.g. get a Wand and Use Magic Device it through your Skill Monkey) you need from a Divinist. Divinists also double as warriors which means they can fulfill both roles.

Given a party with a Druid and a Barbarian, I'd look at arcanist and a skill-type character of some kind. They could be the same character, of course, but since you have two others I'd say have one go skilly and one go arcaney, with whatever flavor they please. And if you handwave away Trapfinding, Bards and Rangers can make adequate skill monkeys too. Either way, that's what I'd run; an arcanist and a skilly type. Then you have the classic party together.

[Asha'man]

Now I remember where i saw the +5/+4 but it was actually +9/+4 It was BAB in pathfinder for the druid!

[Gavinfoxx]

So... how is that relevant? Also, what level are you starting at? I would start at fairly low level... fewer crazy abilities to worry about...

What sort of story do you ultimately want to tell in the campaign?

[Asha'man]

No I'm still wondering what that does.

[Eldariel]

No I'm still wondering what that does.

It means second attack; at 6 BAB (from multiclassing or singleclassing; the table entries are only there for singleclassed characters) you get a second attack at -5 on a full attack,, 11 BAB a third attack at -10, and 16 BAB a fourth attack at -15.

[Kol Korran]

First of all, though there a lot of options in the game, i suggest to keep yourself at what you (and your players) are comfortable with. problems of balance between players usually come when players are quite experienced, or when one player is very very creative and makes use of those. as you are all begining players, my advice is to play what is fun to the players, and worry about balance later.

a few things:
1) though the players don't know the mechanics of the game, you can explain to them the general possibilities, and they can tell you what they'd like to play. "i'd like to play a guy who kills stuff well!", "I'd like to play someone sneaky, smart, with a surprise up it's sleeve!" or "i want to play some one good with animals and the wild, an outdoors man" then help build the character according to the player's vision, including offering them key choices (such as feats).

2) about the campaign, a few notes:
- it's a combined effort, don't plan the campaign up till 20th level in advance. the idea is that you and the players tell a story TOGETHER. plan ahead a few sessions, but let the players surprise you, take you where you didn't fully expect. it's a much more fun game for players and DMs alike. remeber- it's not YOUR story, it's the PARTY's story.

- i wouldn't base the campaign on the druid for several reasons. first, it makes the other characters feel like his sidekicks, and that's a bit of a bummer. secondly- this is not a book, too many unexpected things might happen- what if the player quits? or decides he hates playing a druid? or what if the character dies?

- a single long term adventure from level 1-20 is waaaaayy too long. i suggest to work on smaller segments of adventure, closer goals. make the adventure be compiled out of 4-6 Story Archs or so, each with a definite goal, theme and so on, but connected to each other. 1-20 is a bit too much (for msot parties) to work on one adventure- the end is too far away.

- also, don't give the adventure synopsis at the begining (close the portal). if you wish to keep suspense you should reveal the adventure in small steps, always keeping something hidden, letting info flow at a pace that doesn't frustrate players, but doesn't lose their attention either.

hope this helped.

[Asha'man]

Ok I'll keep that in mind.