Help me perform an assassination!!!!

[rmccarver]

Under the spoiler is the setup for why my character is getting ready to perform this assassination.

I am playing a ranger/rogue whose family was killed, then the killer was never brought to justice because the Sharn Court System, was paid off. So I started worshiping the Fury from the Dark Six and seeking my vengeance. I recently found out that it was the Changeling underworld that killed them, while at the same time a changeling rogue has entered our group. I consider this person a spy and from certain things he has said, I believe him to be sent to kill me to prevent my goal of revenge. It doesn't hurt that the GM is completely behind my assassination attempt because of the moronic way this guy played his character..very disruptive.

Question #1 Can an unseen servant activate a Feather Token?

Question #2 Does a player get a save versus a bag of objects dumped into the square in which they stand, which are not targeted at them?

Question #3 Will the rogue skill evasion allow a character to evade fire stones or a swan boat dropped on them by said unseen servant who is placing the object in the square and not targeting the player?

I will need actual sources for this..my DM is very much a RAW GM.:smallyuk:


Edit: If you can think of a better way, let me know.

One of our party has been keeping tabs on me with his rats, Druid character. I am releasing cats into the area days before I do this.

[VGLordR2]

#1 I believe not. According to this (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20041116a), a command word is required to activate a Wondrous Item. I don't think Unseen Servants can speak, as they are mindless. (If I'm wrong about Unseen Servants being unable to speak, then they can definitely use the Feather Tokens)

#3 Evasion only reduces damage if the character is allowed a save. Therefore, no save means no evasion. According to this (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/glossary&term=Glossary_dnd_fallingobjects&alpha=), a falling object offers no save. So Evasion will not help the Rogue.

[Swiftest]

Is there any reason you can't wait until the next time the whole party is together and you all are resting? Surely this must occur once in a while? Once that point is reached, wait until someone ELSE is on watch, and come up with an excuse to have your own tent (you like your privacy, you like to sleep alone, you study until late in the evening, w/e). Then drink/cast greater invisibility, walk over to your enemy silently, coup de grace him, and return to your tent! If you're truly afraid of noise acquire a means to have yourself magically silenced first.

With this method your chief concerns are going to be having a good bluff check (if your DM allows bluff to work on other PC's) and/or having a way to beat magical divinations or zones of truth (boosted willsave?) if your party might use those to investigate.

Other than that you're scott free as I see it, worst case scenario the guy on watch sees something invisible killing the rogue. As long as you come out of your tent within moments being all sleepy and 'What happened??' nothing should make your party the wiser in-character.

You could also poison the guy with some really nasty contact poisons. Black lotus extract comes to mind. Expensive, but if he somehow touches 4-5 things smeared with black lotus extract in quick succession he is almost certainly dead barring a huge fort save.

[Thumperganker]

i'll disagree on the evasion bit, regardless of whether you are attacking the square or the character. If a fireball went off in an area, it effects a certain number of squares and a reflex save is allowed, to effectively jump out of the way. An object that is hitting a square the character is in, should allow a similar save. A trap is the same idea, the character is unaware of the danger, but his/her reflect might help them. The dm would be unfair to make it so that if you attack the square than the character or npc gets no save. If this was the case a caster could just fireball the square, no save cause its the square not the character

[ojayaba]

Do you care if the rest of the party knows that you kill him?
if so, the invis/silenced coup de grace = great, if not, during a fight after every one is sore and hurt, merc him/her since they will prob already be hurting.

or give them false information to feed back to the changelings and then merc em all when the time is right

[rmccarver]

VGLordR2, thanks for the locations of those pages. Obviously unseen servant is not my best concept for what I want to do.


You could also poison the guy with some really nasty contact poisons. Black lotus extract comes to mind. Expensive, but if he somehow touches 4-5 things smeared with black lotus extract in quick succession he is almost certainly dead barring a huge fort save.

Swiftest...that is an excellant idea, I could use a chaos flask to create the poison, I just rather wanted his death to be painful and magnificent, without drawing to much unwanted attention towards myself at the same time. The idea was I wanted to get him into an alley, by ourselves and do this at that location. Since we are both evil aligned characters, its not unheard of for us to travel together without the rest of the group, when in town.


Do you care if the rest of the party knows that you kill him?
if so, the invis/silenced coup de grace = great, if not, during a fight after every one is sore and hurt, merc him/her since they will prob already be hurting or give them false information to feed back to the changelings and then merc em all when the time is right

ojayaba - I would like to avoid them knowing so that I can get a little bit more play out of the character. I have played the character to the hilt and the DM has requested that I make a back up character, since the character is nearing a point where it will have to become an NPC or die. As for killing everyone...its in the plans, i.e. why the character is going to be taken by the GM and used as an antagonist against them.

I had two other ideas if you guys would like to weigh in on them. One was to use Aboleth Mucus on him. Which is cruel, but rather anti-climatic. My favorite though was to get him entangled, then use mutliple feather tokens of whip against him, while I force him to hear the story of how my family was killed.

Ideas are readily accepted. I liked the sneaky one of sleep, however we sleep in a guarded locked house. Not sure it would be that easy.

[Keneth]

#3 Evasion only reduces damage if the character is allowed a save. Therefore, no save means no evasion. According to this (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/glossary&term=Glossary_dnd_fallingobjects&alpha=), a falling object offers no save. So Evasion will not help the Rogue. I'm pretty sure that non-targeted falling objects can be avoided with a Reflex save (DC 15, I believe) although I can't seem to find the rules for this. There are some standardized rules for this in d20 Modern though which I've always found preferable because they take the size of the object into account.

Edit: Ah, here we go. Aerial Bombardment section in Heroes of Battle (p. 67). This should be a pretty close approximation of what you're trying to do although it's generally assumed that you're holding the object and above your target but the method isn't really the important part here, just the result.

Damage: The damage dealt by a dropped object is based on the weight of the object and the distance the object falls, as noted on page 303 of the Dungeon Master’s Guide. A creature can avoid damage from the attack by making a DC 15 Reflex save.
I think there's more similar rules in other splat books but this one came to mind. You can choose to ignore this information but the whole "rocks fall, everyone dies" thing is kinda annoying, especially when the DM decides to use it. :smallwink:

[ojayaba]

critical moment in fight against BBEG neglect to help him/her and just use the excuse that your reflexes weren't fast enough to save him/her.
geas/quest them to silence regarding you in any way. go "shopping" and kill them. hire a low end thug as a decoy, kill them and claim you got ambushed well shopping.

[rmccarver]

critical moment in fight against BBEG neglect to help him/her and just use the excuse that your reflexes weren't fast enough to save him/her.
geas/quest them to silence regarding you in any way. go "shopping" and kill them. hire a low end thug as a decoy, kill them and claim you got ambushed well shopping.

What do you think about me coating multiple items in poison, such as black lotus extract, megapede poison, etc, then act like I am going through my magical items, clearing my backpack from our last adventure. Stating, ok I need you to hold this for me and you can have this item, I don't need it. I hand them to him as a bunch. As he touches the items he has to save versus the multiple poisons. Once he is dead I can use a remove poison spell on the body to remove all traces and take all the items back, leaving him dead in his room. :smallfurious:

[ojayaba]

would your character really get a satisfactory feeling from killing him like that?

[killem2]

As he touches the items he has to save versus the multiple poisons. Once he is dead I can use a remove poison spell on the body to remove all traces and take all the items back, leaving him dead in his room. :smallfurious:

there is also a splat book (3e) I believe, that had a poison version of explosive runes.

Basically if they read what is written it poisons them.

If you wanted to go that far, you could start the poison, stay hidden, when he's dying, show him the "cure" which is really just a label of more poison pills, and make him confess to you what he has done or he let him die.

Then, he confesses by reading your demented letter (with the poison rune spell), it poisons him more, then he dies lol.

[rmccarver]

would your character really get a satisfactory feeling from killing him like that?

The character is more about vengeance, and less about method, though showboating is good, since it raises suspicion and sows fear in those who should fear. I think I will need to think that idea out further.

[rmccarver]

there is also a splat book (3e) I believe, that had a poison version of explosive runes.

Basically if they read what is written it poisons them.

If you wanted to go that far, you could start the poison, stay hidden, when he's dying, show him the "cure" which is really just a label of more poison pills, and make him confess to you what he has done or he let him die.

Then, he confesses by reading your demented letter (with the poison rune spell), it poisons him more, then he dies lol.

Now that is cruel and inventive!

[ojayaba]

The character is mroe about vengeance, and less about method, though showboating is good, since it raises suspicion and sews fear in those who should fear. I think I will need to think that idea out further.

i ask about the satisfaction because vengeance is great... if it actually means something. if you get your vengeance and it was pointless, character = pointless now, and as an evil character with no point, that typacaly means murderous rampage/NPC status.

[rmccarver]

i ask about the satisfaction because vengeance is great... if it actually means something. if you get your vengeance and it was pointless, character = pointless now, and as an evil character with no point, that typacaly means murderous rampage/NPC status.

Premise:

Murdered Family + Knowledge That Changeling underground killed them + New changeling Rogue in Group + I basically made a deal with my god that if she helped me seek my vengeance I would devote myself to her as an Unholy Assassin = loads of fun and eventual NPC status already informed to me by GM...which is fine..I just want to enjoy the Character to the hilt. I have already created a whole mess of party/game intrigue and poilitical discourse which has made for a fun game for everyone.

"I am evil, not stupid!" - Don't remember who said it :-)

[Toliudar]

First, it sounds very much like you're using the IC point that your character has a history with changelings to justify what sounds like an OOC desire to kill off this character. If you wanted to find out whether this changeling is in fact a spy for the underworld, you'd be looking for ways to capture/interrogate him and follow the trail back to his higher ups. You're not. Let's be honest. It's just a rationalization for killing this character that's annoying you.

Second, the trouble with the poison plan is that you need to verify that he's not wearing gloves - hard to do without setting off alarm bells. You're a ranger/rogue - why aren't you just breaking into this guy's room while he's asleep and delivering a coup de grace? Even if he makes his fort save, you can almost certainly take him in a straight fight.

[rmccarver]

First, it sounds very much like you're using the IC point that your character has a history with changelings to justify what sounds like an OOC desire to kill off this character. If you wanted to find out whether this changeling is in fact a spy for the underworld, you'd be looking for ways to capture/interrogate him and follow the trail back to his higher ups. You're not. Let's be honest. It's just a rationalization for killing this character that's annoying you.

Second, the trouble with the poison plan is that you need to verify that he's not wearing gloves - hard to do without setting off alarm bells. You're a ranger/rogue - why aren't you just breaking into this guy's room while he's asleep and delivering a coup de grace? Even if he makes his fort save, you can almost certainly take him in a straight fight.

IC I am being driven by my God, unfortunately inviting a Agressive deity into your soul, does not lend one to having comlete free will. Secondly, this other character has drawn too much attention to himself, and in doing so to me; in this case impersonating the head of the house for which we work, in front of the guys daughter and the entire party using changeling abilities and changeling clothes. OOC his character is annoying the GM, who is about to perform a smack down on him, so for story plot, I figured it would be more convenient for to do it for her.

I am thinking this sleeping thing is obviously going to be the most optimum way. It keeps coming up and I almost always bow to the thinking of the Playground, since you guys possess knowledge I could only be envious of :-) However, having said that....poison on the blade during the coup de'grace would not hurt matters any!!!

[Andorax]

No assasination advice.

Instead, DM advice. Please pass this on.

If there's a problem with a player OOC, you handle it OOC. Never (no, not even then) use in-character actions, player or DM, as a way to handle a problem with a player's behavior.


What you're doing is killing for lolz with a thin excuse (he's a changeling rogue, so he *must* be associated with the changelings that killed my family...so I'll kill him and not bother to actually find out who sent him).

What your DM is doing is egging on PVP conflict as a way to avoid handling a person problem.

[killem2]

Ooo I didn't realize that you were killing a player. eek.

:smallsigh:

[Sturmcrow]

No assasination advice.

Instead, DM advice. Please pass this on.

If there's a problem with a player OOC, you handle it OOC. Never (no, not even then) use in-character actions, player or DM, as a way to handle a problem with a player's behavior.


What you're doing is killing for lolz with a thin excuse (he's a changeling rogue, so he *must* be associated with the changelings that killed my family...so I'll kill him and not bother to actually find out who sent him).

What your DM is doing is egging on PVP conflict as a way to avoid handling a person problem.

Good advice here.

OP, can you provide any information to help support the case that this guy is involved?

[rmccarver]

No assasination advice.

Instead, DM advice. Please pass this on.

If there's a problem with a player OOC, you handle it OOC. Never (no, not even then) use in-character actions, player or DM, as a way to handle a problem with a player's behavior.


What you're doing is killing for lolz with a thin excuse (he's a changeling rogue, so he *must* be associated with the changelings that killed my family...so I'll kill him and not bother to actually find out who sent him).

What your DM is doing is egging on PVP conflict as a way to avoid handling a person problem.

I feel as though I have comitted some atrocity in the breach of gaming decorum. I have not been playing long enough to really get why this is such a bad thing. From my perspective, if another player did me in for drawing attention to his actions, fitting a model of those he was hunting and being a known associate of those same individuals, then I would feel like it was good role playing. As for the DM part...yeah I think your right and I think I will bring that up to them in a very cordial and polite way.

[Sturmcrow]

Some people like PVP, some do not. If your group is okay with it then as long as it is all IC go for it.

I am curious to hear what happens when you talk to the DM

[rmccarver]

Some people like PVP, some do not. If your group is okay with it then as long as it is all IC go for it.

I am curious to hear what happens when you talk to the DM

It might have helped if I had said that OOC the other player knows its going to happen and is ok with roleplaying it out. His concept is, when you run with the those with prices on their heads, you will probably one day have a price on yours. However, that is all OOC.:smallwink:

[Andorax]

How you described the situation made it sound like the DM was tired of one of his players, and was encouraging you to use your character to kill his character to get back at him.

Very much a no-no in good DMing. Most of what I said was directed at him, not at you.

The only thing I took issue with, based on what you described, was that you were:

1) Concerned with killing off a stranger that you hadn't indicated as having any proof to be connected with the killing of your family.
2) Weren't terribly interested in finding out who sent him, who hired him, or in any other way going after all of the NPC Changelings who are responsible, and
3) Didn't care if your own character was NPCed as a result of your actions.

These three things, taken together, suggest an OOC motive to get back at another player, rather than a strong RP motive to "play out my character's nature properly".

[Red_Dog]

How you described the situation made it sound like the DM was tired of one of his players, and was encouraging you to use your character to kill his character to get back at him.

Very much a no-no in good DMing. Most of what I said was directed at him, not at you.

The only thing I took issue with, based on what you described, was that you were:

1) Concerned with killing off a stranger that you hadn't indicated as having any proof to be connected with the killing of your family.
2) Weren't terribly interested in finding out who sent him, who hired him, or in any other way going after all of the NPC Changelings who are responsible, and
3) Didn't care if your own character was NPCed as a result of your actions.

These three things, taken together, suggest an OOC motive to get back at another player, rather than a strong RP motive to "play out my character's nature properly".

I have to partially side with Andorax here.

If your character is going to merc/try to merc any Changeling just cause he is changeling, than this is an agenda you will HAVE to bare until your character dies/campaign ends. If you want to change a compulsion as strong as murdering an individual baring "insert some attribute" without listening to the target's side. Than you will have to stick to it, or metagame.

And that's where my argument ends as I flat out won't discuss metagaming[using out of character knowledge in character just because you want to. Its distinctly different from say, setting up a plot line for your character by communicating with DM/players, as character, is not aware of this conversation]. Other people might see it as "ok", I do not. Sorry. = \

P.S. I am not saying that you can't have a character that is a "racist". There are classes in D&D based around being better at committing genocide. Ranger is actually a great example[Not to mention, Slayer, Mortal Hunter, Darkwood Hunter, etc. etc. etc.]. I'm sure designers do not see it this way, as many players don't. **By the by, NO, not every ranger is racist, not at ALL. BUT, yes, every ranger is good at committing genocide**

And yes, you can totally play this character, and tbh, its just a game, its no worse than your generic grave robbing hobo[aka adventurer!^^]. BUT... If you choose to have an irrational hate towards a type of creatures, be prepared to walk the walk so to speak ^^ Or metagame... which see above.
**You COULD have some big redemption adventure that will let you get rid of your hatred, but, that's up to the party, if they feel like wasting time on that. It makes for cool story, but the one that probably has little treasure... So yeah, see grave-robbing hobos = \**