is this a good bard build?

[Harry]

My friends character died he wants to roll a bard and he asked for me to make the build is this a good bard build?

Necropolitan Silverbrow Human Bard6/LyricThaumaturge2/Virtuoso2/SublimeChord2/Virtuoso7/spelldancer1 is this build any good?

[GoodbyeSoberDay]

I'm guessing you're going Necropolitan because you're also using words of creation, which means you're optimizing Inspire Courage (perhaps DFI), right?

[Harry]

I'm guessing you're going Necropolitan because you're also using words of creation, which means you're optimizing Inspire Courage (perhaps DFI), right?

Yes That plus spelldancer for unlimited free metamagic I forgot to mention he's also going to be a silverbrow human

[Harry]

If someone has a better feat to take then dragonfire inspiration I am all ears :smallsmile:

[Ryu_Bonkosi]

Ok, you have 8 total feats and the feats you are taking with this build will be: Melodic Casting*, Combat Casting*, Dodge*, Endurance*, Mobility*, Words of Creation and Dragon Fire Inspiration (* = Required). This leaves you only have one feat slot left. To me, it just seems that the one level of Spelldancer (4 crappy feats!) to get the ONE free metamagic will just bog down the build.

Some Suggestions:

1. If Dragon Content is allowed I would look into the Heartfire Fanner from 314. It would let you give your fighter buddy another feat or two and lets you reduce the MM cost of an allied spellcaster.

2. Another thing that might be nice would be a one level dip into Sorcerer for the Dragonblooded ACF that lets you take Draconic Heritage (Pyroclastic). That would allow you to use DFA to get Sonic damage instead of Fire damage.

3. Seeker of the Song two would let you use two DFAs at the same time. This would only really work if you had the one level Sorcerer dip because two copies of Fire wouldn't stack. So you would have bonus Sonic damage and Fire damage (Nice).

4. The feat, Song of the Heart, from Eberron Campaign Setting lets you get a boost to Inspire Courage. From the same book there is a bit on Bards on Pg 34 that would let you get Song of the Heart instead of one of your Bardic Songs.

5. Lingering Song lets your music last for one minute after you stop playing.

[Harry]

Ok then considering we only have a single melee char and he's a Gish I think I'll just switch out dragonfire inspiration do he has room for. Persistent spell does that sound like a good idea?

[Harry]

Our party goes like this big stupid fighter: cleric/dweomerkeeper using dmm divine power healer:is the cleric/dweormerkeeper the god: me a wizard/incantatrix/hathran/tainted scholar bard: this guy. So do we really need dragonfire inspiration? Besides the majority of our enemies are immune to fire because I am a mailman

[eggs]

Sure, it looks like a fine build. The Necropolitan+WoC/Spelldancer synergy is pretty slick, and the rest is pretty standard.

Spelldancer's powerful, but in this build, it looks like it's seriously gambling early-game survival for late-game overkill. In terms of the metagame tradeoff, that's not a particularly good one - immediate payoffs are more valuable than delayed returns because they're much more likely to see immediate play.

The class is useful for specialized builds using Persist (for self-buff focused casters), Ocular (for stupid uncapped metamagic chicanery on combat spells) and/or Earth spell (uncapped DC/CL abuse, wherever a spell's cast). Those are all feat-intensive (possibly too feat-intensive for all that's going on here), and typically a bit beyond the realm of reasonable play (if they're allowed without nerfs, they still exacerbate Rocket Tag/Immunity Roulette gameplay, which in a metagame sense does not favor the players).

If it all fits in, it could be very powerful at high levels and reasonably playable at low ones. I'd be a bit worried about the metagame effects of some of the build's decisions, though.

EDIT:
The game's already in Dweomerkeeper/Incantatrix/Tainted Scholar territory? Dance those spells up.

But as a nitpick, I'd swap one of the pre-SC Virtuoso levels out for Lyric Thaumaturge. There are plenty of hilarious Persistable Wizard spells, like Scintillating scales or Cloud of Knives, and Dominate shouldn't be that great at this level.

[Harry]

Sure, it looks like a fine build. The Necropolitan+WoC/Spelldancer synergy is pretty slick, and the rest is pretty standard.

Spelldancer's powerful, but in this build, it looks like it's seriously gambling early-game survival for late-game overkill. In terms of the metagame tradeoff, that's not a particularly good one - immediate payoffs are more valuable than delayed returns because they're much more likely to see immediate play.

The class is useful for specialized builds using Persist (for self-buff focused casters), Ocular (for stupid uncapped metamagic chicanery on combat spells) and/or Earth spell (uncapped DC/CL abuse, wherever a spell's cast). Those are all feat-intensive (possibly too feat-intensive for all that's going on here), and typically a bit beyond the realm of reasonable play (if they're allowed without nerfs, they still exacerbate Rocket Tag/Immunity Roulette gameplay, which in a metagame sense does not favor the players).

If it all fits in, it could be very powerful at high levels and reasonably playable at low ones. I'd be a bit worried about the metagame effects of some of the build's decisions, though.

EDIT:
The game's already in Dweomerkeeper/Incantatrix/Tainted Scholar territory? Dance those spells up.

Thanks but he's not starting At level one then work his way to level 20 he's starting at level 20 then working his way in to epic level :smallbiggrin:

Edit:I don't know if a spell known is worth it besides. My char is a spontaneous wizard so I'll can take care of stuff like that

[Ryu_Bonkosi]

Ok then considering we only have a single melee char and he's a Gish I think I'll just switch out dragonfire inspiration do he has room for. Persistent spell does that sound like a good idea?

Looking at your party, DFA wouldn't be that good. The good thing about Heartfire Fanner is that it lets you give feats that the Fanner has if you don't want to use Fighter feats. So if you load good MM feats onto this guy, he can give up to three (if all 5 levels are taken) feats he has to the entire team. Also the people recieving the feats get to choose which ones they get, so you don't have to give the same three to everyone.

So if you were to go: Bard 6/Lyric Thaumaturge 2/Heartfire Fanner 2/Sublime Chord 2/Heartfire Fanner 3/Full Casting Bardic Music Class 5 (Required Feats: Negotiator, Skill Focus: Perform, Melodic Casting) and use the other 5 feat slots on good metamagic feats, he could give the entire party a huge edge in the metamagic department. The build ends with maxed out bardic music, metamagic giving monster and 9th level spells.