Psion as Party Scout, Build Help!

[ExtravagantEvil]

Hello Playground :smallsmile:,
In campaign that'll happen over the summer, and I am playing a Psion(Seer) and read through the Psion Handbook.
I Was thinking LN Gnome Seer 1/Ranger 1/Seer 2/Factotum 1/Seer 15.

I know to take Psionic Talent, and PsiCrystal Affinity, but after that in terms of feats my mind draws a blank.
Further I want to toss in some Incarnum, because I've heard the Synergy is beautiful, but will it fit in, or could it be made to fit without losing ML while letting me be Party Scout Still?
Gnome has to stay. No Changing that for setting/concept reasons.

As a side note: what are some good powers a seer could take to still control people, a la mind control even if it's weak.

Thank you :smallsmile:

[Piggy Knowles]

Not really sure what a single level of Factotum nets you in that build stub? I'd probably omit it. And honestly, unless you're planning on going into Slayer, I wouldn't dip into Ranger either, and just go straight Seer.

I'm not sure how much this will help you, but I played a psion scout in an SRD-only online game a few years ago. I was a Shaper rather than a Seer, but I'm sure some of the feat and power choices would apply in any case.

Most of his powers were focused on detection and keeping him alive, which is what really made him an effective scout. He was a jungle halfling, giving him poison use, and he used Psionic Minor Creation and poison arrows as the bulk of his early game offense. Later in the game, Astral Constructs, solid debuffing and BFC took its place. He took Expanded Knowledge for Metamorphosis, but used it mostly for infiltration and defense, rather than for combat - he did everything he could to avoid getting into melee!

Reconstructing the build from memory, it went something like this:

Jungle Halfling (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/environmentalRacialVariants.htm#jungleHalflings), Ranger 1/Psion 6/Slayer (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/prestigeClasses/slayer.htm) 10/Psion +3

FEATS:
1- Track, Point Blank Shot (PsyReformed to Extend Power)
2- Psicrystal Affinity
3- Precise Shot (PsyReformed to Boost Construct)
6- Overchannel, Talented
9- Psicrystal Containment
12- Expanded Knowledge (Metamorphosis)
15- Psionic Meditation
18- Burrowing Power

POWERS:
1- Psionic Minor Creation, Entangling Ectoplasm, Vigor, Astral Projection, Detect Psionics
2- Share Pain, Detect Hostile Intent, Control Sound, Psionic Knock
3- Ectoplasmic Cocoon, Touchsight, Time Hop, Greater Concealing Amorpha
4- Psychic Reformation/Psionic Freedom of Movement, Intellect Fortress, Psionic Divination, Wall of Ectoplasm, Metamorphosis (via EK)
5- Psionic True Seeing, Psionic Plane Shift, Hail of Crystals, Adapt Body
6- Temporal Acceleration, Psionic Contingency, Retrieve
7- Personal Mind Blank, Mass Ectoplasmic Cocoon, Psionic Moment of Prescience
8- Bend Reality, Psionic Greater Teleport, True Metabolism
9- True Creation, Reality Revision, Psionic Etherealness

[ExtravagantEvil]

The Factotum level was to score Trapfinding, and the Ranger level is to give him track.
I'm trying to find ways to focus mainly on Intelligence, Wisdom, and make sure that he gets to track persons and locate traps.

[Chronos]

No character should ever take one level of Factotum. If it's allowed and it fits the character build, you should always take at least three levels, for Brains over Brawn. This is especially true if you're making a character that has a high Int anyway.

As for the ranger level, you do know that you can just spend a feat to get Track, without needing a ranger level, right?

Likewise for Incarnum, you can get most of the available goodies by spending feats, though you might want to take a 1-level dip anyway just to get a bunch of things at once.

[Zaq]

No character should ever take one level of Factotum. If it's allowed and it fits the character build, you should always take at least three levels, for Brains over Brawn. This is especially true if you're making a character that has a high Int anyway.

I dunno, man. Factotum 3 is a really nice level, no argument there, but that's two manifester levels lost. That's an entire level of powers down the drain, to say nothing of the lost PP and ML. One level for a quick skill injection and synergy with Able Learner does have its place.

[eggs]

Anarchic Initiate levels boost skill points and BA and give some fun (though not particularly gameshattering) class features, without sacrificing manifester level.

Factotum 1/Seer 5/Anarchic Initiate X would be a slick package.

[Rejusu]

I dunno, man. Factotum 3 is a really nice level, no argument there, but that's two manifester levels lost. That's an entire level of powers down the drain, to say nothing of the lost PP and ML. One level for a quick skill injection and synergy with Able Learner does have its place.

Well since the OP was already considering dropping two levels for Factotum 1 and Ranger 1 just taking 3 levels of Factotum and the Track feat would be a better option. Also remember that the OP is playing a gnome so Able Learner is off the table, which makes just the one level dip is a little bit of a waste. But yeah lost manifester levels are highly undesirable.

There MIGHT be a way to get Trapfinding through feats using incarnum but I'm AFB right now so I'm unsure of how much investment would be needed. Also it's worth pointing out that Search isn't a class skill for any kind of Psion and you kinda need it if you want to find traps. A one level dip will get you it as a class skill, but you'll still have to spend 2 skill points a level to keep it capped out.

It's also worth noting that if you want a scout type telepath is also an option. Provided you don't constantly run up against creatures immune to mind affecting it's a decent option. Plus you can swap your 5th level bonus feat to gain permanent telepathy which qualifies you for mindsight. Also worth noting that under RAW stuff that's immune to "mind-affecting" isn't automatically immune to mindsight:


A creature that has this feat can detect and pinpoint beings that are not mindless (anything with an Intelligence score of 1 or higher) within range of its telepathy.

Also worth noting for a scout is this:


The creature also perceives several observable characteristics about each being detected with mindsight, including the being's type and Intelligence score. The creature need not take any additional or special actions to gain this information; it is as obvious to mindsight as the being's race and clothing would be to eyesight.

This is very nice, by the time you can get it (earliest level 6) you can detect everything that isn't mindless within 30ft and it increases by 5ft per manifester level too.

[AmberVael]

Here's some advice:

Dump your dips in non-psion classes. You don't need them.

As Rejusu hinted at, you can pick up Trapfinding via incarnum. The soulmeld you need is Theft Gloves, and its Hands chakra bind. You can get this for the cost of two feats. That's kind of a high cost, but better than losing manifester levels.

And just pick up Track as a feat. No need to get Ranger.

Power selection:
Clairvoyent Sense. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/clairvoyantSense.htm) For 3 power points, the ability to scry pretty much anywhere. It is a steal, and you should get it every single time you play a Seer.

You may also wish to consider Sensitivity to Psychic Impressions (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/sensitivitytoPsychicImpressions.htm) and Object Reading. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/objectReading.htm) Neither are as good as Clairvoyent sense, but will add to your information gathering abilities in unique ways.

Touchsight (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/touchsight.htm) is one of the best sensory powers in the game, particularly because it is a rare, untyped effect. Most effects that specify sensory powers that wouldn't work will not include Touchsight, and so it will still work. That, and it's just pretty decent anyway.

Time Hop. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/timeHop.htm) This is a very fun, very versatile power that's quite handy for a scout. Someone has noticed you, and is going to alert others? Pop them (or whatever alerting device they're going to use) out of time for a bit. Door in your way? Time Hop. Need to avoid the detection of that wizard who could see through invisibility? Step out of time, and he won't notice you.

Detect Remote Viewing. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/detectRemoteViewing.htm) It's not on my 'always take this' list of powers, but it is pretty useful, and nice for a scout particularly. After all, scouting isn't very useful if you're being spotted, and this lets you detect that and react appropriately. It has a 24 hour duration, which means you only have to bother with it once per day- or if you Extend it, once every two days. Pretty good deal.

Temporal Acceleration. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/temporalAcceleration.htm) So, spellcasters get timestop. Far as I'm considered, they can keep it, because Psions get Temporal Acceleration instead, which blows it out of the water. It gives you as many rounds as you spend points on, allowing you precise control over how many actions you get, is a 6th level power, and is a swift action. It's great for any psion, and I'm sure a scout will find all kinds of use for it.


Feat Suggestions:

And if you still want to control people, but aren't a telepath? Don't fret! You can get the best telepath powers anyway(and you should) via Expanded Knowledge. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/psionicFeats.htm#expandedKnowledge) I recommend Psionic Dominate, Suggested, Charm, and Schism (probably not ALL of those, but take one or two depending on your preference). That last one isn't a mind control power, but it is a power every psion should know because extra actions are awesome.

Incidentally, I do not recommend Psionic Talent. It grants very few power points unless you spend a lot of feats on it, at which point it becomes too expensive.

Burrowing Power. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/psionicFeats.htm#burrowingPower) This is a pretty neat trick that a lot of other classes can't pull off. Combine it with clairvoyent sense and you can pretty much manifest any power anywhere you want to, which is a nightmare for your opposition, and great for a scout. Shoot all your opposing guards through a door, or through a castle wall- or hit a mage behind his big wall of force, and so on. Good stuff.

Extend Power. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/psionicFeats.htm#extendPower) It's small, but does its part. Increase the duration of all those handy buffs or scrying type powers that help you scout. It's worth it.

Psionic Meditation. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/psionicFeats.htm#psionicMeditation) Gives you back your psionic focus faster, which is cool if you use metapsionics (and you should).

[ExtravagantEvil]

Okay, thank you very much :).
My only reason to take Ranger was because spending a feat on Track when survival is not a class skill would be a waste,
So my thought was to cover my bad saves, better BaB, HD, weapon/armor versatility (since Psionics works regardless of your armory. Wearing nothing but sheet metal, Psionics is good with it), And Survival as a class skill is good to bump my tracking from okay to decent,
Thank you for the Incarnum advice.
I might go Incarnate for a level or 2, depending on whether my Con Score is good enough for the Meld Shaping feats.

Thank you for the power suggestions, and I never thought of Burrowing Power, would you say it wise to try to get that feat that let's your Psicrystal hold a focus as well or no?

[Piggy Knowles]

How about Incarnate 1/Psion 5/Soul Manifester (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20060217a) 10/Anarchic Initiate 4, or Incarnate 2/Psion 3/Soul Manifester 10/Anarchic Initiate 5? (The first option is strictly better, but could face multiclassing penalties).

You'll want Azure Talent, Midnight Augmentation and Psycarnum Infusion as feats definitely. And if you go the Incarnate 1/Psion 5 route, you'll need Open Least Chakra (Hands) to enter Soul Manifester. (Of course, as a Psion 5, you'll also have an extra bonus feat, so it's a wash either way.)

Instead of blowing a feat on Track, you can blow a feat on Shape Soulmeld (Hunter's Circlet), which will give you track when you need it while also boosting your Survival checks.

You'll end up with the meldshaping of an 11th level Incarnate and the manifesting of a 19th level Psion. The Incarnate should be able to handle the skills side of things. Good soulmeld choices could include...

CROWN: Enigma Helm gives you an always-on Nondetection, quite nice for a scout. Or Shape Soulmeld (Hunter's Circlet), and pick up Track and big bonuses to Survival.

FEET: Airstep Sandals for flight. You could shape Acrobat Boots and jump and tumble about, but why bother, when you can fly? Or, if you want to play the rogue and pick up Uncanny Dodge/Evasion, Impulse Boots.

HANDS: Theft Gloves should be pretty much stapled on if you're trying to be a scout. Trapfinding and major boosts to Disable Device will make you a solid trapmonkey without ever taking levels in rogue or factotum. Also, you can get Sleight of Hand checks high enough to steal someone's shirt off their back without them even knowing.

ARMS: Depends on your alignment. If you're good, Lammasu Mantle is nice defense. If you're evil, the Necrocarnum Touch isn't too bad. Otherwise, Astral Vambraces give DR and fit the psion flavor

BROW: A lot of options here. Mage's Spectacles for UMD. Psion's Eyes for UPD and Autohypnosis, plus Mindlink is a nice scouting power. If you're serious about using mind control powers, Charming Veil is a very good DC booster. The Truthseeker Goggles can help you find traps. It's a tough choice.

SHOULDERS: Pauldrons of Health gives you some nice immunities. Wind Cloak if you're going against archers.

For throat/waist/heart/soul chakras, you won't have a chakra bind without spending a feat, so just look at the base effects.

THROAT: Silvertongue Mask for social skills, Planar Ward for some mental defenses.

WAIST: Strongheart Vest. Even without the chakra bind (which is darned good), it's still your best option here.

HEART: Spellward Shirt for SR.

SOUL: Fellmist Robe gives you some cool concealment even without the chakra bind, so have fun.

[ExtravagantEvil]

That is magnificent my good man!
Only 2 problems are:
1: would that build function if for the 1st 6 levels I order it as
Psion 2/Incarnate 1/Psion 3
or
Psion 5/Incarnate 1?
I want to reinforce the Psionic Aspect because my group is largely new players (besides myself) so I wish not to leave them dazed and confused about my character during summer break.
I'd also rather just start off raising my Psionic talent and get Clairvoyant Sight as fast as I can.

Next, I'm LN so I presume Anarchic initiate is not wise.
What would you recommend instead?

[Piggy Knowles]

That is magnificent my good man!
Only 2 problems are:
1: would that build function if for the 1st 6 levels I order it as
Psion 2/Incarnate 1/Psion 3
or
Psion 5/Incarnate 1?

Either one works. Luckily, Azure Talent is a psionic feat and doesn't require you to be a meldshaper already, so you can take it before you ever take a level in Incarnate.



Next, I'm LN so I presume Anarchic initiate is not wise.
What would you recommend instead?

Gah, sorry, missed your alignment in the original post! If that's the case then yes, drop Anarchic Initiate and take anything that progresses manifesting. Even more levels in psion works fine.

[ExtravagantEvil]

I looked at the Soul Manifester prestige class and Incarnate and I'll need to take 2 levels of Incarnate at minimum.
That throws a spanner in the works.

[Piggy Knowles]

Shape Soulmeld (Hunter's Circlet) and Open Least Chakra should cover entry. You will be able to shape your Hunter's Circlet via the feat, plus your two Incarnate soulmelds. And you will have access to a single chakra bind, also via feat.

That said, if you're worried, then Incarnate 2/Psion 3 does work fine as an entry. But if you're planning on taking Shape Soulmeld anyhow, I really do think Incarnate 1/Psion 5 is better. The extra feat tax is mitigated by your level 5 bonus feat, and in the long run, an extra level of Psion nets you 31 PP and an extra 9th-level power, while an extra level of Incarnate only ends up giving you one additional point of essentia.

[eggs]

As long as it has 3 Soulmelds available, a Psion can get into the class with Open Chakra (4th level power), but it would be especially vulnerable to dispels until Soul Manifester 3.

So with Metamorphic Transfer and Overchannel, a straightclassed level 9 Psion with Azure Talent and one Shape Soulmeld feat could qualify (not that there'd be much point).