PF Alchemists- Awesome?

[NeoSeraphi]

So I'm going to a Pathfinder Open Society game in a few days, and I have the opportunity to just make a character randomly, so I thought about trying out a class I've never played (except a rogue).

PF is still pretty new to me, but the idea of playing an alchemist struck me as, in a word, epic. Bombs? As a class feature? Oh yes.

My question here, Playground, is, does the alchemist have any underlying problems that I am missing? Have any of you played an alchemist, and did you have fun with its class features? What is the alchemist's main role in the party? Are there any feat/race suggestions you can offer?

[RndmNumGen]

Alchemist is one of my favorite classes in Pathfinder. Depending on which discoveries you take, you can become a melee monster, a bomb-slinging grenadier, a potion-mixing master or a bunch of other things.

When I played it, I focused more on mutagens and natural attacks, though I've heard of others who really like the bombs. One of the issues with bombs is the daily limit; they're great to have, but you need to ration them wisely or you won't have them when you need them(swarms anybody?). Unfortunately, even the Extra Bombs feat doesn't give you much more.

[Menteith]

I've run Alchemists before, and I've always had a great time with them. There are a few ways they can be run, but I would highly recommend running a Bomber/Caster Alchemist over a Melee Alchemist.

The main role is similar to that of a "God" Wizard; they have some of the best buffing/debuffing that exists. If you take this route, I would highly recommend taking Mindchemist ACF, and strongly consider Psychonaut as a way to pick up a number of gamebreaking spells. Mindchemist also lets you make every Knowledge check with impunity, and if you're allowed to port Knowledge Devotion, you get downright disgusting. Half Orc with the Sacred Tatoo ART and Legacy of Sand trait is my personal favorite for a race choice, but a strong choice can be made for a Pyromaniac Gnome.

Tanglefoot Bomb allows you to target Reflex saves with a potent Save or Suck (as an AOE, no less), while either Frost Bomb or Smoke Bomb + Stink Bomb give you the ability to DOS people off a Fortitude save. Confusion Bomb comes online at 8, and doesn't offer a save, and with Fast Bombs allowing you to Full Touch Attack unstoppable Confusions on everyone in range for a minimum of 8 rounds can break the game pretty badly. Force Bomb gives you the ability to affect everyone (seriously, what has Immunity [Force]?) Bear in mind you can (generally) only apply 1 Bomb discovery at a time to each Bomb; the useful exceptions to this are Dispelling Bomb (decent utility), Madness Bomb (very low amount of Wisdom damage in exchange for 2d6 Bomb damage), and Sticky Bomb (Significant damage boost if you want to be a nuker).

On the buff side, Infusion allows anyone to drink your Extracts. You have the ability to prepare any Extract into an unfilled slot with 1m of preparation, and can add Extracts to your list the same way a Wizard does. This gives you a high amount of out of combat utility, since everyone can ~spontaneously cast everything off your list. Not only does this give unique buffs like Overland Flight, Fluid Form, and Delayed Consumption (Contingency in all but name) to everyone in your party, it allows you to manipulate the action economy pretty well by having everyone "cast" one of your spells for you. Alchemical Allotment (Alchemist 2) deserves specific mention for being awesome - you can "reuse" a Potion or Elixir with it, allowing you to pseudo-cast any Potion/Elixir with a 2nd level slot. Notable things include Barkskin +5, Elixir of Hiding, Magic Fang +5, Haste, Fly, Shield of Faith +5, and Remove [Stuff]. These are now all effectively 2nd level Extracts for you, now. If you're a Psychonaut, Infusion gives your party buffs like Foresight, Moment of Prescience, and Telepathic Bond for everyone in your party.

At upper levels, you can pull off a number of silly tricks if you're so inclined. Infusion + Twin Form is pretty nutty, allowing for completely risk free Scry and Dies (if you have a way to teleport). Magic Jar is as broken as ever, except now everyone you know has the ability to cast it. You can grab Tumor Familar, and then take Improved Familiar for a Asura, Tripurasura for the excellent Spell Like Abilities and the ability to abuse Use Magic Devise (a class skill of yours, great on its own). With the various Potion enhancing Discoveries (Enhance, Extend, Eternal Potion) and Alchemical Allotment (ab)use you can have enough buffs active on you to make a DMM Cleric blush. With Cognatogen (and the Cognatogen Discovery Line), you'll have an Int well into the 40s, and can get some absurdly high save DCs with your various Bombs. Elixir of Life gives you either a Contingent Resurrection, or lets you cast True Resurrection. Doppelganger Simulacrum makes it exceedingly difficult to ever actually kill you, and you can get it by level 10. There's no limit to the number of Clones you can have placed around the world, and it's a right pain in the ass to find them all; you can't be permanently killed if there's one left, and since you can shift into one as a Full Round Action, it's hard to actually trap you.

It's difficult to protect against everything you're capable of doing, but it's possible. If you've picked up Tanglefoot Bomb, Frost Bomb/Stink, Force Bomb, and Confusion Bomb, it's hard to find a way to avoid getting hit with at least one condition. Creatures need to be immune to Confusion, have Freedom of Movement on them, be surefooted so a Force Bomb (prone) + Frost Bomb (staggered) Lock doesn't occur, and should have Poison Immunity to protect against Stink Bomb. Since the save DCs all scale with your primary stat and with class level, every Save needs to be covered. If you don't have Precise Bomb, you'll give your melee fits trying to avoid the bombs, just as a heads up. Splash Weapon Mastery combined with Precise Bombs gives you a reasonable amount of shaping, letting you get additional usage out of Stink Bomb and Tanglefoot Bomb.

In a nutshell, you're one of the best battlefield controllers, arguably the best buffer you can gain access to some of the most degenerate spells around, and you have a multitude of options available to no one else. You're completely SAD (Int), with it boosting Save DCs, Skills/level (with a good list), Damage, Bombs/day, Extracts/day, and Extracts Known. Confusion Bomb RAW breaks encounters in silly ways, and your damage will be several hundred/round by level 20. I highly recommend the class as a toned down Wizard.


EDIT

With regards to Bombs/day, it's not nearly as significant as you might think. Think of a Bomb as a spell - you use them Class Level + Int Mod/day, meaning you'll have (usually) 5 or more at level one, and have the option of being a Gnome for an additional Bomb/2 levels. This gives you 10+ Bombs/day by level 4. You'll start running into issues if you're really abusing Fast Bombs (Permanent Haste off item/Eternal Potion, Rapid Shot chain), but normally it's not an issue.

Assuming 18 Int starting, as a Gnome using the Favored Class Alternative;
Level 1: 5 Bombs/day
Level 4: 10 Bombs/day
Level 8(Assuming +2 Int Item): 18 Bombs/day
Level 12 (Assuming +4 Int Item): 25 Bombs/day

You get the idea. It's pretty hard to use them all up, to be honest.

Second Edit
Feats to look at:
- Splash Weapon Mastery
- Knowledge Devotion (if using Mindchemist ACF, and allowed to port D&D 3.5 material)
- Point Blank Shot (Required for Rapid Shot)
- Rapid Shot (After Fast Bombs has been taken)
- Ability Focus (This has some ambiguous wording, but if allowed will either add +2 to the DC for every Bomb, or +2 to the save DC for a specific Bomb. Decent either way)
- Extra Discovery (by RAW, can't be taken until level 2 since you don't have the Discovery class feature by then, just as a heads up)

Discoveries to look at:
- Tanglefoot Bomb (good from levels 2-20, no pre-reqs, reasonably strong AOE debuff)
- Force Bomb (bypass most immunities, gives another good condition to force on targets)
- Frost Bomb (Easier way to target Fort saves than Stink Bomb, allows for more damage versatility. Best "Elemental" bomb debuff)
- Smoke Bomb (Required for Stink Bomb, can be used with Dispelling Bomb to effectively cast Fog Cloud without damaging yourself. Lets you block LoS)
- Stink Bomb (Amazingly strong AOE debuff, lasts only 1 round)
- Fast Bomb (Lets you laugh at the action economy and full attack with "spells", will significantly boost combat performance)
- Confusion Bomb (Breaks the game. Will utterly shut down anyone without immunity to Mind Affecting with no save. Reasonable to allow a Will save for the target, discuss with DM)
- Infusion (Best Discovery ever - there is no build that exists that isn't improved by Infusion. Dramatically expands utility, allows for potential game breaker combos by giving out "Personal" spells to everyone.)
- Eternal Potion (Annoying pre-reqs, gives you "Persist" for a potion. Burst of Speed is arguably the best option, but Resist Energy 30, Barkskin +5, Haste, Heroism, and Targeted Bomb Admixture have their merits)

[Zaq]

My group plays straight 3.5 (no PF), but if we WERE to start playing PF, you'd have to hold me back to keep me away from the Alchemist. I've wanted an alchemist-style character for pretty much my entire d20 career, and 3.5 just doesn't deliver if you don't wanna play an Artificer.

So yeah. It's awesome. Not being intimately familiar with the intricacies of PF, I can't say how good it is, but I'd leap at the chance to play one.

[NeoSeraphi]

Reading the Open Society rules, I notice that they have alchemists gain the Extra Bombs feat for free at first level, rather than Brew Potion. Seems unfortunate, since that would restrict my ability to buff other players (kind of shoe-horning me into being a blaster), but rules are rules.

Reading a bit more in-depth here, it says that all item creation feats and the Craft skill in general are not allowed in PF OS games. So, how do you guys think that would affect my ability to play as an alchemist?

[Ravens_cry]

Some of the crunch seems badly shoehorned into the flavour. I get this general feeling of "Well, these formulae? They are most assuredly not spells. You have only a limited number of times per day, and others can't use them, but uh, they aren't spells, oh no, most certainly not!"
Personally, I'd make them more Warlock, with unlimited use, with perhaps a small gp cost for supplies.

[RndmNumGen]

Reading the Open Society rules, I notice that they have alchemists gain the Extra Bombs feat for free at first level, rather than Brew Potion. Seems unfortunate, since that would restrict my ability to buff other players (kind of shoe-horning me into being a blaster), but rules are rules.

Reading a bit more in-depth here, it says that all item creation feats and the Craft skill in general are not allowed in PF OS games. So, how do you guys think that would affect my ability to play as an alchemist?

Yeah, PFS is very strict about character wealth, and forbids many character options that can modify or break it(Rich Parents, Item Creation, Crafting, etc.) As for how it affects your ability to play an Alchemist? Not a lot. Alchemists can brew potions in the same way wizards can, but just the real beef of the class comes from the extracts, which are unaffected. Potions are just a marginally expensive way of storing spells for later, so you don't miss much by losing out on them.

[panaikhan]

I'm loving my pyromaniac gnome Alchemist 7 / Musket Master 3
My personal favorite discoveries are precise bomb (allowing you to miss your buddies in melee) and explosive bomb (covering a wider area).
If you don't want to spam bombs every round, the Vital Strike (I think) chain works with bombs, netting you an extra dice per feat.
I'm considering going Master Chymist soon, but might just go straight Alchemist to the end.

[Menteith]

Reading the Open Society rules, I notice that they have alchemists gain the Extra Bombs feat for free at first level, rather than Brew Potion. Seems unfortunate, since that would restrict my ability to buff other players (kind of shoe-horning me into being a blaster), but rules are rules.

Reading a bit more in-depth here, it says that all item creation feats and the Craft skill in general are not allowed in PF OS games. So, how do you guys think that would affect my ability to play as an alchemist?

This is actually a decent buff. In that case, I would wholeheartedly recommend Half Orc, with the Sacred Tattoo and Rock Climber Alternate Racial Traits, and grabbing the Legacy of Sand to help your poor Will Save. The Favored Class Alternative will add +1 Bomb Damage (To both Direct and AOE) every two levels, for a total of +10 at level 20 (+15 with Sticky Bomb). Darkvision is always sexy, and this lets you start off with 20 Int, which is wonderful.

Your buffs come from your Extract list and the Infusion Discovery. Potions only come into it for use with Alchemical Allotment, and you generally want to buy high CL potions for that, as it's relatively cheap (+5 Barkskin is only 1,200g) for how good it is.

[stack]

I believe its worth mentioning that, while not as potentially crazy as some of the above ideas, a melee alchemist (vivisectionist/beastmorph) can do great melee damage, combining mutagen-boosted strength with three natural attack. Can also get pounce at level 10, as you can pick off the beast shape II menu, which is nice with the sneak attack damage.

[NeoSeraphi]

Do alchemists need to spend any gp on...you know, alchemical materials? It talks about mixing things in the mutagen, extract, and bomb sections, but nothing about what the alchemist is mixing. Is a Craft (Alchemy) check required and if so, what's the DC?

[Starbuck_II]

Do alchemists need to spend any gp on...you know, alchemical materials? It talks about mixing things in the mutagen, extract, and bomb sections, but nothing about what the alchemist is mixing. Is a Craft (Alchemy) check required and if so, what's the DC?

Nope, only when using Brew potion does it cost gp. You do need an alchemist kit though.

[Cieyrin]

Reading the Open Society rules, I notice that they have alchemists gain the Extra Bombs feat for free at first level, rather than Brew Potion. Seems unfortunate, since that would restrict my ability to buff other players (kind of shoe-horning me into being a blaster), but rules are rules.

Reading a bit more in-depth here, it says that all item creation feats and the Craft skill in general are not allowed in PF OS games. So, how do you guys think that would affect my ability to play as an alchemist?

Be sure to check out this PFS FAQ (http://paizo.com/pathfinderSociety/faq#v5748eaic9os7), you can still make alchemicals as an alchemist, which there are quite a few of between Core, APG and Adventurer's Armory, which has fireworks which are actually really nice for you. You can't make magic items, it's true, but potions are pretty expensive unless you use a Discovery for Enhance Potion, for which it's not that bad. Infusion is probably a better bet, anyways. I'm pretty sure Alchemists are the only class allowed to craft for more than money, too, so that's pretty unique to them. EDIT: Wait, Gunslingers can make ammo and alchemical cartridges via Gunsmithing. Still, alchemists have more selection than they do.

If you plan to use your bombs with any frequency, you definitely want the Precise Bombs discovery for shaping, as, at least in my experience, PFS likes its narrow spaces for combats and other players don't much care for getting exploded. Also check Additional Resources (http://paizo.com/pathfinderSociety/resources) to know what's available for use in Society and what isn't, which in the above rant by Menteith restricts against clones and doppleganger discoveries for the most part.

Alchemists are pretty awesome in Society, they show up rather often as antagonists as well, so you'll have ample opportunities for grabbing formula books for copying. I'd also check out the Grenadier archetype in the Pathfinder Society Field Guide, which gets you Precise Bombs for free among other things. So make something interesting and have fun. Welcome to Society. :smallsmile:

[Zubrowka74]

You might want to look at this page (http://pathfinder.ogrehut.com/tag/alchemist/). Has a build centered around bombs (Dr. Strangelob) and another focused on melee with mutagens (Jekyll / Hyde).

[Menteith]

which in the above rant by Menteith

I do love the Alchemist...sorry for coming on a bit strong :smallredface:.

[Cieyrin]

I do love the Alchemist...sorry for coming on a bit strong :smallredface:.

Rant may have been a strong word on my part. Nerd Verbal Barrage is kinda wordy, though...

[Menteith]

Rant may have been a strong word on my part. Nerd Verbal Barrage is kinda wordy, though...

I keep flitting with the idea of writing an Alchemist Handbook someday, so whenever someone asks a question about the class I tend to start what amounts to a rough draft handbook and throw it at them. It might have been better if I hadn't edited the post multiple times with more information...

[Rickshaw]

I played an alchemist with such high damage output when mutagened the GM had a pit fiend (Liebdaga actually,) lop off one of his arms.
take feral mutagen, then improved natural attack and multiattack, then pop your enlarge person and you get to roll the big die for your damage. grab a amulet of mighty fists (adamantine) and you can bite through walls and claw through most DR.

that, plus bombs, makes for silly damage wherever you want it. If you're high enough lvl you can take the churigeon ACLs and snag some fast healing and breath of life to top it all off. then while the party is doing silly things like shopping or whatever, you can take master alchemist, skill focus craft alchemy, and pump out cure potions and sovereign glue for all sorts of fun uses.

oh. and alchemist's fire :smallwink:

[Roncorps]

And what about their ArC ? Does one goes well with bomb ?

I saw the preservationnist. Ok, Pokemon, Digimon, whatever style, but with Planar Preservationnist, you got the same level summon monster as natural summon. You only lose poison use, poison resist, persistent mutagen and one discovery (level 18). I was thinking like a halfing, throwing extract that summon stuff.

Other side, Chirurgeon could give a little boost to healing. You only lose poison use, poison resist and poison immunity to get free cure infusion without the discovery and the infusion can be inert, so don't use any extract slot. Breath of life as formula is a huge plus. Could be a life saver without a propor cleric.

I'm looking at the Internal Alchemist too ... don't know what to think here.

I want to create a alchemist, but I'm not sure about poison. Are they usefull ? Didn't use/try them ever.

[shortbow]

The Gamer's Guide to Pathfinder recently did an episode on the Alchemist, you can find it here:

http://www.35privatesanctuary.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=category&id=53&Itemid=65

[NeoSeraphi]

So for a melee alchemist, is beastmorph or ragechemist better? They don't mix at all, but I can already get Feral Mutagen as a discovery, so...how would you guys do this?

[Benly]

Looking at them, I'd say beastmorph by a pretty broad margin - it gets you flight starting at 6 and pounce starting at 10, both of which are the bee's knees for melee types. Ragechemist's bonuses are nice enough, but they're easier to replace (pounce is pretty annoying to come by in PF), are likely to be less powerful overall, and are massively less versatile.

[Chained Birds]

Rage Chemist does grant you a +6 Alchemical Bonus to Strength (at level 1) when using a mutagen though. Though some drugs can almost replicate the increase in stats (as they also provide Alchemical Bonuses) but at a risk of addiction and the severe lowering of other stats.

Beastmorph is very nice too with adding versitility to your character other than "I claw and bite it for game!" Though the lack of Persistent Mutagen is kind of a downer.

So, Rage for Massive Melee Damage output (like barbarian) with risks or Beastmorph for versatility and High Melee Damage output for less time.

[Benly]

Rage Chemist does grant you a +6 Alchemical Bonus to Strength (at level 1) when using a mutagen though. Though some drugs can almost replicate the increase in stats (as they also provide Alchemical Bonuses) but at a risk of addiction and the severe lowering of other stats.

Beastmorph is very nice too with adding versitility to your character other than "I claw and bite it for game!" Though the lack of Persistent Mutagen is kind of a downer.

So, Rage for Massive Melee Damage output (like barbarian) with risks or Beastmorph for versatility and High Melee Damage output for less time.

The thing is that Ragechemist's +6 is only +2 compared to Beastmorph (which still gets the basic +4 all mutagens get), which in turn comes out to +1 to hit and damage. Then it loses that one-point lead on any round when it has to move, because on those rounds Beastmorph's pounce is leaving Ragechemist's single attack at +1 higher damage bonus in the dust.

[Roncorps]

Going as a Alchemist PC, does poison is useful in PF/3.5 ? Should I always try to get something else (like ArC Grenadier) because they are useless ?

[stack]

I would never take ragechemist over beastmorph. Minimum benefits, big risks. Seriously, risking penalizing your worst save AND INT every time you get hit? That's terrible. You end up comatose or dominated constantly. Heck, ANY HP damage requires a DC 15 save, which gets harder every time you fail it. No thanks.

[Benly]

Going as a Alchemist PC, does poison is useful in PF/3.5 ? Should I always try to get something else (like ArC Grenadier) because they are useless ?

The basic issue poison faces is that it tends to be very expensive relative to the levels when a given DC is useful. If you can get around that one way or another, it's potentially very effective, especially Con poison, but it's too expensive to use on a regular basis.

[Blisstake]

Some of the crunch seems badly shoehorned into the flavour. I get this general feeling of "Well, these formulae? They are most assuredly not spells. You have only a limited number of times per day, and others can't use them, but uh, they aren't spells, oh no, most certainly not!"


I know exactly what you mean. Normally, I absolutely hate complaining about the flavor of a class, but I think the Pathfinder alchemist is the worst offender I've ever seen. Which is too bad, really, because the class is fun to play, and I love Pathfinder in general.

Here's a number of fluff problems:

Why are alchemists able to add spells from a wizard's spellbook to their forumla list, but not vice-versa (especially if they aren't really magic users)
Where do the materials for their bombs and mutagen come from, especially if there's no associated cost?
Why are bombs only useable a limited amount of time per day? What happens when you sleep that causes them to be useable again?
Why do formulae and mutagens only work on the alchemist? (my favorite answer is their own blood is a component)
Why can they only prepare a limited number of extracts per day?
How is it that their equipment for mutagens, extracts, and bombs only takes up a negligable amount of space and only weighs a negligable amount?

Basically, it's a class that works a lot better when you don't think about it :smalltongue:

[Roncorps]

The basic issue poison faces is that it tends to be very expensive relative to the levels when a given DC is useful. If you can get around that one way or another, it's potentially very effective, especially Con poison, but it's too expensive to use on a regular basis.

Even if you can craft poison ? At 1/3 price, that seem OK (with 90% poisons, a Black Lotus is at least 1.500G, so not that useful).

But, I was getting on the bomb-wagon, so anyone got a hint about what good martial weapon should I add to my proficiency with the level 1 modification of Grenadier ?Martial Weapon Proficiency

At 1st level, a grenadier picks one martial weapon to become proficient in the use of.

This ability replaces Brew Potion.And does [Staggering Blast (Su)] can be applied with another Critical Feat ? So, you could thrown Bomb that are Staggering and XXXX on critical ?

[NeoSeraphi]

What feats should I get for a melee alchemsit with the Vivisectionist and Beastmorph archetypes? I'm level 1 and a human (because for some reason PF didn't give any of the Core races a Str bonus, even though all the other scores got boosted).

I looked through the PFSRD and none of the feats jumped out at me. I ended up picking Power Attack (sub-optimal since I'm going to be using natural attacks) and Improved Initiative. 3.5 material is not allowed. Are there any good feats I'm missing here?

[Benly]

I know exactly what you mean. Normally, I absolutely hate complaining about the flavor of a class, but I think the Pathfinder alchemist is the worst offender I've ever seen. Which is too bad, really, because the class is fun to play, and I love Pathfinder in general.

Here's a number of fluff problems:

Why are alchemists able to add spells from a wizard's spellbook to their forumla list, but not vice-versa (especially if they aren't really magic users)
Where do the materials for their bombs and mutagen come from, especially if there's no associated cost?
Why are bombs only useable a limited amount of time per day? What happens when you sleep that causes them to be useable again?
Why do formulae and mutagens only work on the alchemist? (my favorite answer is their own blood is a component)
Why can they only prepare a limited number of extracts per day?
How is it that their equipment for mutagens, extracts, and bombs only takes up a negligable amount of space and only weighs a negligable amount?

Basically, it's a class that works a lot better when you don't think about it :smalltongue:

My impression is that while they're not supposed to be spellcasters as such, what they're doing with bombs and infusions is still explicitly magical - it's a short-term but inexpensive version of the same process as enchanting potions. So inexpensive, as a matter of fact, that you can get by with a materials set not much bulkier than a spell-component pouch and using about the same handwave. This is why extracts don't work for other people by default (they're not really independent items) and why you get limited bombs per day (it's not spellcasting, but uses a similar sort of internal magical "charge".)

[Roncorps]

My impression is that while they're not supposed to be spellcasters as such, what they're doing with bombs and infusions is still explicitly magical - it's a short-term but inexpensive version of the same process as enchanting potions. So inexpensive, as a matter of fact, that you can get by with a materials set not much bulkier than a spell-component pouch and using about the same handwave. This is why extracts don't work for other people by default (they're not really independent items) and why you get limited bombs per day (it's not spellcasting, but uses a similar sort of internal magical "charge".)

Remember that they say that alchemist create bomb and extract with their "'own magical power", so it's like they are limited on their magical power and cannot do much as what their level is (so, magical power goes up with level ?).

Going with that way of thinking, there should be a feat or a trait that "UP" their magical power, adding + bombs, + extract, etc. but that's just me.

[Benly]

Going with that way of thinking, there should be a feat or a trait that "UP" their magical power, adding + bombs, + extract, etc. but that's just me.

I've got good news for you! (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/extra-bombs)

[Roncorps]

I've got good news for you! (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/extra-bombs)

Saw it, but it's like they only got "bomb magic power", so is magical power a compartmentalized concept ?

I know, for the sake of equality and non-uberness :smallbiggrin:

[Benly]

Saw it, but it's like they only got "bomb magic power", so is magical power a compartmentalized concept ?

Generally, yes. It's not like an alchemist can go "I don't feel like I'll be blowing anything up today" and slide his bomb energy into extra infusions; neither can a bard swap off music and spells, or a paladin swap off channel attempts and lay on hands (nor, for that matter, can spellcasters generally mush together low-level slots or split down high-level ones.) Having segregated pools of magical energy seems to be the standard for D&D characters.

[Roncorps]

Generally, yes. It's not like an alchemist can go "I don't feel like I'll be blowing anything up today" and slide his bomb energy into extra infusions; neither can a bard swap off music and spells, or a paladin swap off channel attempts and lay on hands (nor, for that matter, can spellcasters generally mush together low-level slots or split down high-level ones.) Having segregated pools of magical energy seems to be the standard for D&D characters.

Sound fair enough to me !

2 more questions :

1. If I go Grenadier, lose brew potion but want to brew potion, should I not get the feat using one of my bonus feat and goes with Infusion discovery that "do" the same thing, without expanding a feat ? Or is there something I don't see missing making it less useful than Brew ?

2. Staggering Blast (Su) from the ArC Grenadier add the staggering effect with a critical hit. Can another critical feat effect be used in conjunction with Staggering Blast as it is not a Critical Feat ? Even without the Criitical Mastery Feat ?

[stack]

Brew potion lets you brew potions (the normal magic item), it has no effect on extracts. Infusion lets others use your extracts, is does nothing for potions (which anyone can use, because they are potions).

[Roncorps]

Brew potion lets you brew potions (the normal magic item), it has no effect on extracts. Infusion lets others use your extracts, is does nothing for potions (which anyone can use, because they are potions).

Yes, but Brew Potion is used for Alchemist as a way to create potion with extract formula they know. Infusion let you give extract to other like a potion, but without all the cost of ... OK, I see the bonus of having Brew Potion. It's just that brewing a potion with one of the alchemist formula don't add to the maximum extract he can have. So, it's a way to create maximum level 3 extract that don't use slot.

[deuxhero]

Generally, yes. It's not like an alchemist can go "I don't feel like I'll be blowing anything up today" and slide his bomb energy into extra infusions; neither can a bard swap off music and spells, or a paladin swap off channel attempts and lay on hands (nor, for that matter, can spellcasters generally mush together low-level slots or split down high-level ones.) Having segregated pools of magical energy seems to be the standard for D&D characters.

Pathfinder, not 3.5.


When a paladin reaches 4th level, she gains the supernatural ability to channel positive energy like a cleric. Using this ability consumes two uses of her lay on hands ability

[Benly]

Pathfinder, not 3.5.

Whoops! I haven't played a PF paladin, so I missed that had been changed. Pretend I said spells instead, because that's one of the very rare cases of one ability using a resource pool explicitly dedicated to another ability. (This as opposed to "general" resource pools like ki and grit - and even then, you can't use ki for extra Stunning Fists.)

[Dalek-K]

I think I just thought of a way to make the Alchemist slightly more awesome, I'm currently creating a Baseball Pitcher Alchemist.

Yeah you read that right :D

I want to make a Debuff/Damage bomber type that uses Improved Feint (thus a touch [- armor] flat footed [- dex] attack) and whenever he passes on a Feint check it is fluffed as him throwing a curve ball/slider/knuckle ball depending on what fluff I want to use.

I'm looking for Alchemist guides on the best way to do this, all I know so far is I will be Human and I need Combat Expertise and Imp Feint.

I do however get 2 free Traits, just not sure which one to pick (probably rich parents for the free 900 gp).

Any thoughts?

[Zubrowka74]

I'm looking for Alchemist guides on the best way to do this, all I know so far is I will be Human and I need Combat Expertise and Imp Feint.

Halfling would make nice fluff. I wonder if you could use an extract or a bomb through a sling ?

[Menteith]

Halfling would make nice fluff. I wonder if you could use an extract or a bomb through a sling ?

You could easily argue that Explosive Missile would let you do it. Technically, it only allows for Arrows, Bolts, and Firearm Bullets to work, but it's something worth considering. (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/alchemist/discoveries/paizo---alchemist-discoveries/explosive-missile)

Alternately, you could try and use a Flask Thrower. It's an exotic weapon that is designed specifically to extend the range of Alchemical Weapons, and looks basically like a Halfling Sling Staff. (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/equipment---final/weapons/weapon-descriptions/flask-thrower)