Question about the Sanctified Creature template

[Xenovore]

The sanctified creature template reads the following description:
"Sanctified creature" is an acquired template that can be added to any evil creature except for outsiders with the evil subtype (referred to hereafter as "base creature"). The sanctified creature retains its creature type. Outsiders gain the good subtype and lose any of the following subtypes: baarezu (devil), tanar'ri (demon), and yugoloth. If the base creature had the fiendish creature template, it loses the template and all special attacks and special qualities granted by the template. In uses all the base creature's statistics or special abilities except as noted here.

I'll try to explain the part I am confused about. This first part is pretty clear:
"Sanctified creature" is an acquired template that can be added to any evil creature except for outsiders with the evil subtype (referred to hereafter as "base creature"). The sanctified creature retains its creature type.

So alright, I cannot add it to outsiders with the evil subtype, crystal clear I'd say but then this part:
Outsiders gain the good subtype and lose any of the following subtypes: baarezu (devil), tanar'ri (demon), and yugoloth.

Aren't these types of demons and devils all outsiders with the evil subtype or am I missing something here? Is there someone that can clarify to me why this template cannot be added to Outsiders with the Evil subtype yet has specific rules for exactly those subtypes if you add it? I'm sure I'm probably overlooking some kind of demon or devil that isn't an outsider but some elaboration would be much appreciated.

Thanks in advance for your time and responses!

[Larkas]

Well, you have the Retriever, who is listed under "Demon" but is actually a construct, though it doesn't really have Tanar'ri or the Evil subtypes. I think that is just another example of a rule contradicting itself, and the errata doesn't clear it up. Myself, if I, as a DM, were to use it or let a player use it, I'd simply ignore the "except for outsiders with the evil subtype" part.

[Krotchrot]

I'd honestly just houserule it that it just changes their Subtype from Evil to Good. Regardless of if they are Outsiders or not.

My DM just changed the Evil subtype to Good. In our last game we traveled with a Succubus that was Sanctified.

-Edit-
What the Sanctified Template is doing is removing the Evil(duh) and the Tanar'ri(if applicable) Traits associated with the creature. So the Sanctified Creature for example said Succubus is now a Chaotic, Good, Extraplanar Medium Outsider. The Succubus will no longer gain the benefits of the Tana'ri Traits listed under the Demon heading. That is they no longer gain the benefits of their Immunities, Resistances, Summoning ability, and Telepathy. They instead gain what the Sanctified Template provides them.

[AngelisBlack]

There is a way to change the alignment subtype of your character. Savage Species has the Ritual of Alignment that will change your alignment subtype or add one. So it is possible to undergo the ritual and then add the Sanctified Creature Template afterwards.

[Larkas]

You could. But, for me, there are only two reasons a creature would undergo that Ritual:

1 - The creature wants to pose as someone from a different alignment;
2 - The creature is on the path to redemption.

On the first case, someone would have to hit the creature, against its will, with a Sanctify Creature spell. Possible? Yes, but you first would have to assess that the creature changed its subtypes, prepare the spell and strike. Not as easy as going to a red dragon's lair and casting the spell on him, as it wouldn't be immune, unlike the outsider by RAW.

On the second case, the creature doesn't really NEED to be sanctified. It is already redeeming itself in all the ways imaginable, casting this spell would be like beating a dead horse with a stick.

Therefore, the creature would need to undergo a voluntary change in subtypes to be affected by the spell, which would restrict its offensive usage somewhat. Frankly, I'd rather just ignore the "except for outsiders with the evil subtype" part and let it affect everything.

[KillianHawkeye]

@Larkas,

Do you really suppose it was meant to be applied offensively in the middle of combat?? :smallconfused::smallconfused:

[Larkas]

@Larkas,

Do you really suppose it was meant to be applied offensively in the middle of combat?? :smallconfused::smallconfused:

Well, its casting time is a standard action, and it is pretty much a save or die effect (well, more like a save or suck for a whole year), but I guess it IS pretty expensive, since you have to sacrifice a character level... With Mind Fog and other things to hamper the Will save and increase the save DC, you could pretty much finish the BBEG off in a very awesome way, though. I think :smallbiggrin: But you're right, even if it is usable in climatic battles (and I'm not sure it is), it is not to be used on every succubus you come across in the Abyss.

Reading through the spell description, though, it doesn't say that evil outsiders are specifically immune to it, and I'm pretty sure they would still adopt the caster's alignment after the year of imprisonment, they just wouldn't qualify for the template as is. So, yay!, good Pit Fiends are a possibility :smallbiggrin:

But that just adds more holes to the template as it is. If the spell can affect evil outsiders, and the template removes demons'/devils' subtypes, it doesn't make ANY sense for it to not be applicable to evil outsiders; ALL Tana'ri, Baatezu and Yugoloth ARE evil outsiders, after all.