Weapons Enhancement

[Quild]

Hi.

I'm a total noob in D&D and have some troubles to find how I should enhance my Greatsword with 3.5 rules.


My character had a (large) Greatsword with "Unholy" enhancement.
My first question is : Is that weapon a Masterwork Weapon? Do I have a +1 bonus on attack rolls? (not supposed to stack with enhancements bonus, but I have no hit bonus).

In exchange of services (bringing him alive to his lands with a chest full of diamonds:smallfurious:), I asked a dwarf to add me an enhancement during our trip (we had a small forge in a waggon).

That little bastard put Mighty Cleave, which I think... sucks.
=> Do I still have the +1 bonus to hit? (If I had it)

I just realize today that it would greatly increase the cost of next enhancements to come...

Since my character has some troubles with his hit score and since most of our opponents have an unbalanced AC (I'm medium sized with a large greatsword. I can use it thanks to a feat, but I have a -2 malus to hit. Can't find the english name of the feat), I wanted a basic +1 bonus, granting 1 to hit and damages.

What would it cost on my sword?
How many days would it take? (cost/1000?)


Subsidiary questions:
- Shouldn't I try to get a new weapon without Mighty Cleave in order to reduce cost of next enhancements?

- Can I ask our mage to Dominate a crafter in order to reduce the cost of the enhancement (let say he has some stocks of components)? What would it cost now?

- Since only an Evil smith could put the unholy enhancement on a new sword, is there a way to change a Good smith's alignment to make him able to put that enhancement?

Thanks for your help.

[RMS Oceanic]

- In order to have a permanent magical effect, the weapon has to be Masterwork, so this Greatsword is Masterwork, and thus will always have a +1 bonus to attack rolls regardless of the weapon's other features.

- In order to have any special abilities like Mighty Cleave or Unholy, it must first have a permanent +1 enhancement bonus, giving you +1 to attack and damage rolls, so the Greatsword should already have at least a +1 enhancement bonus.

- If it doesn't already have that bonus, it is currently the equivalent of a +3 Greatsword, with Unholy being a +2 ability and Mighty Cleave being a +1 ability. The total cost of a magic weapon's enhancement is n2*2000 GP, where n is the equivalent bonus. In this case you have a sword worth 18,000 GP. To add another +1 to that, subtract the cost of a +3 weapon from the cost of a +4 weapon (32,000 GP), giving you 14,000 GP. Creating a magic item takes one day per 1000 GP of cost, so unless your DM wants to waive the time, you'll have to wait two weeks to improve it.

Since your description seems to imply you're missing the original +1 bonus you wanted instead of this ability you don't want, I'd try to persuade the DM to find some relatively speedy way of swapping Mighty Cleave for the +1 enhancement.

[RealMarkP]

Is that weapon a Masterwork Weapon?
All magical weapons are understood to be masterwork weapons.


Do I have a +1 bonus on attack rolls? (not supposed to stack with enhancements bonus, but I have no hit bonus).
A masterwork weapon is a finely crafted version of a normal weapon. Wielding it provides a +1 enhancement bonus on attack rolls (SRD (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/equipment/weapons.htm#masterworkWeapons)). Multiple enhancement bonuses on the same object (in the case of armor and weapons), creature (in the case of natural armor), or ability score do not stack. Only the highest enhancement bonus applies (SRD (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/theBasics.htm#enhancementBonus)).

[Baldin]

Eey,

For an item to be made magical it has to be masterworked. For a weapon this means it grands a +1 bonus to hit(not to damage) if you then enchant it with a +1 enchantment bonus the weapon deals a +1 to hit(the enchant and MW do not stack) and a +1 to damage (note that this +1 multiplies on criticals)

Most important is that a weapon or armor CANNOT be enchanted by anything else if it has no +1 already, as such a Flaming greatsword cannot exist, it has to be +1 flaming greatsword(a +2 weapon).

If your sword is Mighty Cleaving it in fact MUST be +1 mighty cleaving.
If you want to give the sword another +1 enchantment the price is 10k gold (because it is made +3)

Subsidiary questions:
- Shouldn't I try to get a new weapon without Mighty Cleave in order to reduce cost of next enhancements?

The cheapest way is then indeed to get a new weapon and then enchant it with what u want on it.

- Can I ask our mage to Dominate a crafter in order to reduce the cost of the enhancement (let say he has some stocks of components)? What would it cost now?

Technicly if the crafter has all components for this it is free. He does what you tell him and so if the components are there he can do it. Do note this is an evil act.

- Since only an Evil smith could put the unholy enhancement on a new sword, is there a way to change a Good smith's alignment to make him able to put that enhancement?

Not that i know of sorry.


Hope that helped

cheers
baldin

[Urpriest]

You didn't start out with an Unholy weapon, because before enhancing something with a special property like Unholy it must have at least a +1 enhancement bonus (not just masterwork). You need to ask your DM what your weapon's enhancement bonus was at the beginning of this process.

If the dwarf put Mighty Cleave on it, it's now a +whatever it was, Unholy, Mighty Cleaving weapon. The new enhancement doesn't delete the old. The cost of new enhancements will depend on what + it has, since it's the total effective bonus (Unholy counts as +2 for cost, Mighty Cleaving as +1) that determines the cost. So for example, buying a +1 Unholy Mighty Cleaving Greatsword costs 32,350gp. If you wanted to increase it to a +2 Unholy Mighty Cleaving Greatsword you'd pay an additional 18,000gp, since that's the difference between the cost of a +5 weapon and a +4 weapon. Note that only the actual bonus (the +1 or +2) adds to attack and damage rolls.

[Quild]

Ok guys, sounds clear! Thanks!

I've been lost a few moments with the "Unholy" being a +2 bonus but I got it ^^. (well, it's a +2 since it has to include the "basic" +1, right?)

Trying to see with my GM if he accepts to swap the Mighty Cleave that he was mean to put on my weapon with the +1 it should have had since the beginning.
My weapon would be a +1 Unholy weapon and I would need 10.000 GP and ten days to had it enhanced again.

Last question:

The price of enhancing is half components and half fees? I've read you spend XP to improve weapons...? How exactly is the price divised between costs?

[Urpriest]

Ok guys, sounds clear! Thanks!

I've been lost a few moments with the "Unholy" being a +2 bonus but I got it ^^. (well, it's a +2 since it has to include the "basic" +1, right?)

Trying to see with my GM if he accepts to swap the Mighty Cleave that he was mean to put on my weapon with the +1 it should have had since the beginning.
My weapon would be a +1 Unholy weapon and I would need 10.000 GP and ten days to had it enhanced again.

Last question:

The price of enhancing is half components and half fees? I've read you spend XP to improve weapons...? How exactly is the price divised between costs?

Unholy is +2 on its own. Your weapon would also have to have been at least +1 to start out, so it would have been a +3 weapon in total, which gave +1 on attack and damage rolls and +2d6 damage against good-aligned targets. A +1 Unholy Weapon costs 18000gp to buy, plus the cost of the base (masterwork) weapon. If you want to enhance it again you need to pay the difference in costs, so for example the dwarf who gave you Mighty Cleaving on it would normally have charged you 14000gp, since this is the difference in cost between a weapon with an effective +4 (+1 base, +2 unholy, +1 mighty cleaving) and +3 (+1 base, +2 unholy). It would have taken 14 days.

The division between components and XP costs is about what the caster needs to craft the item. You're paying someone else to craft it, so you don't need to worry about that. You just pay the difference in prices.

[Zombimode]

In exchange of services (bringing him alive to his lands with a chest full of diamonds:smallfurious:), I asked a dwarf to add me an enhancement during our trip (we had a small forge in a waggon).

You only need a smith and a forge for creating the physical weapon itself. Adding enhancement boni and special properties requires special abilities. Normaly this means a spellcaster with the corresponding Item Creation feat and access to the specific spells.


- Can I ask our mage to Dominate a crafter in order to reduce the cost of the enhancement (let say he has some stocks of components)? What would it cost now?

The listed prices for magic items/enhancements assume that you buy it. There are no rules for adjusting prices under such circumstances. Creating items costs half as much as buying them, so that could be used as a baseline.
However, not that depending on your DMs overall stance on wealth, you wont actually gain something out of this. Many players (and DMs) are of the opinion that a certain level of wealth, specified by the "wealth-by-level-guidelines" is an essentiell part of a character, and that pretty much regardless of the context of the campaign and the characters actions "should" get this level of wealth (and no more - it swings both ways). That means if you trick a crafter/merchant to provide you with items for free/cheap, that could just mean, that your group will find less treasure/rewards in the future to balance it out.


- Since only an Evil smith could put the unholy enhancement on a new sword, is there a way to change a Good smith's alignment to make him able to put that enhancement?

Of course, a rather high level of manipulation would be required. But this strikes me as a rather inefficient method. Like cutting through a 10ft.x10ft. block of stone to create a 10inchx10inch cube, instead of just starting with a 12inchx15inch stone.
Just searching for a crafter who can craft such items, or better a merchant who just sells this stuff, would be much easier, probably.

[Ezekiul]

http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Craft_Magic_Arms_and_Armor

Is the feat, it takes a number of days equal to (Base Price)/1000, Xp equal to 1/25th of the cost, and the actual gold cost would be half the price.

IIRC, you have to have a +1 weapon (so 2000g) before you can start adding enchancments like unholy, flaming, speed, etc.

But it seems like your GM waved that. So you'd be going from a +2 weapon (Unholy) to a +3 (Unholy and Mighty Cleaving). The difference in price is 10000g so:
10 days, 400xp, and 5000g to make through crafting.

To add a +1 later (+1 Unholy Greatsword of Mighty Cleaving) the difference in price is 14000g from a +3 to +4 so:
14 additional days, 560xp, and 7000g to make later on.

[Zombimode]

http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Craft_Magic_Arms_and_Armor


BAAAD link. Never link newcomers to DanDwiki.

Try this one (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/feats.htm#craftMagicArmsAndArmor) instead.

[Quild]

Awww, didn't realized Unholy was a +2 modifier (thought any modifier was +1).

Is that balanced? I mean, wouldn't two +1 modifier with 1d6 fire or ice damages be better in most case?
What damage reduction does "unholy" bypass?

If I wanted my weapon to have the "Great Evil" enhancement, would it replaces Unholy since it had it's effects included?

I'm not sure the GM waved the +1 bonus on purpose. I need to convince him to switch the Mighty Cleaving with the +1 bonus I should have had (would only bring me 1 damage though, I already can add my sword +1hit) and my sword would be +3...

I'll need to spend 2 weeks in the next region if I want it improved!

@Zombimode: Why not DanDwiki? I've already been on it a lot, I've found it better than D20SRD :x.

[Leon]

BAAAD link. Never link newcomers to DanDwiki.


How about never link to it for anyone. Its not worth the space it occupies.

[Chronos]

@Zombimode: Why not DanDwiki? I've already been on it a lot, I've found it better than D20SRD :x.Most of it is homebrew, most of the homebrew is terrible quality, there's no indication of what's homebrew and what's from official sources, and even the few good things hiding in the utter muck are generally found elsewhere.

[Daftendirekt]

What Chronos said. D20SRD is the site that has all the official core D&D stuff. Danddwiki is just a garbage pile piled on top of the official core D&D stuff, which is then swirled about.

[TheTick]

More than once I've searched something with Google and been completly perplexed by the danddwiki results that came up, trying to figure out if it's homebrew, official, third party, just plain stupid. I avoid those links now too.

[Aeryr]

Is that balanced? I mean, wouldn't two +1 modifier with 1d6 fire or ice damages be better in most case?
What damage reduction does "unholy" bypass?
First there are a lot of enemies with fire resistance or fire immunity and there is nothing like damage reduction fire. Unholy will always add +2d6 to any good aligned enemy that you fight. It will bypass DR as a magical weapon, since it is a magical weapon.



If I wanted my weapon to have the "Great Evil" enhancement, would it replaces Unholy since it had it's effects included?

That's one of the reasons why dandwiki is a bad thing "Great Evil" is not an official weapon enhancement. Here http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/magicWeapons.htm a list of the weapon enhancements in the SRD.

[Ezekiul]

A masterwork weapon gives +1 to attack and a +1 weapon is a masterwork weapon that gives +1 to attack and damage (+2 is +2 attack/damage, +3 is +3 attack/dmg, etc). And as for dandwiki, you should check with your DM if you ever pull anything off the internet regardless, but dandwiki isn't 100% terrible like everyone seems to think. It doesn't deserve all the hate it gets :o

[Quild]

I'm a new player and my GM is a new GM, more used to play than to lead. He may avec missed some of my mistakes ^^. I think we will find a compromise!

I'm disappointed by how few enhancement exists.

@Aeryr: Still, shock or frost damages faces less shock and frost resistance than I will face good opponents. Doesn't look balance to "holy" to me except in some campaigns... Most monsters are evil :x.

How do I play with the +2d6 anyway? I don't always know my opponent's alignment. Do I have to throw 2 more dice and let the GM calculate if those dice are to be added to damages or not?


I didn't get the enhancement prices:/.
Let say I want to enhance a +2 weapon into a +3 weapon (10.000 GP)

- If I am the one who can enhance the weapon and don't have the components, what will be the price?
- If I am the one who can enhance the weapon and I have the components, is it free? (except for xp)

Why would I lose xp from crafting? O_o

[Siosilvar]

Since the price difference is 10000gp, it will cost you half that in gold (5000gp) and one-twenty-fifth of that in XP (400xp). I'm not sure what components you're talking about.

[Gavinfoxx]

There are many more enhancements for magic weapons than those found on the SRD.

Heck, they didn't even link you to all the magic weapon enhancements on the SRD! There are more!

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/magicWeapons.htm
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/items/weapons.htm

Anyway, if you tell us what books your group has access to in general, we can point you at solid options.

Though first -- you have a Large weapon, and are always taking -2 to hit because of that.

Go buy some Strongarm Bracers from Magic Item Compendium to get rid of that. No, those don't stack with the Complete Warrior feat Monkey Grip. Yes, they make that feat completely obsolete. Yes, you will find a lot of stuff to make weapons better in Magic Item Compendium.

Really, this +1d6 here, +2d6 there is small change though... A d6 is only 3.5 damage, you know??

For example, here is a way to combine a series of classes, feats, and magic items to get a character that can deal almost 6000 points of damage on a charge:

http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=12842.msg434540#msg434540

In general, if you want to melee, you should read this:

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=127026

And then make a decision on what sort of thing you want to be competent at.

[Andorax]

If your DM's english is as good as yours, you should point him at this forum as well...that way, we can clear up some misunderstandings on his part and deal with the issue from the source.


If you're not an evil character running around killing good things, you should't really be wielding an Unholy weapon to begin with. Add Mighty Cleaving on top of that if you don't have cleave, and that's an even worse case of an unsuitable weapon. It sounds like you'd be better off selling the thing and starting over to be honest.

[Quild]

In general, if you want to melee, you should read this:

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=127026

And then make a decision on what sort of thing you want to be competent at.

Thanks for that link. Nice to see that some points are roughly what I tend to achieve.

My character is a tenth level with four levels as a Black Knight. It was advised to me to make this character since I wanted a melee and since we already had a warrior. But I realize it has "nothing" to see with a paladin in terms of effectiveness (I killed a few of thems though!).

My four feats are the 3 prerequisites (Power attack, Cleave and the feat to destroy someone's weapon (sunder?)) and another feat allowing me to makes critical on 17-20 instead of 19-20 (I would have prefered a sheath that sharps my weapon, but couldn't get one).

So, as a BK, having a unholy sword seems to me to be something I can't do without!
We're fighting ennemies with a good-aligned unique god, and everyone of them is good-aligned, but we also face lot of monsters, like giants and that kind of things. Thus, Unholy is useless more than half the time. That's why I think it's unbalanced to pay a +2 price modifier for that in my campaign. Maybe my GM could twist the rule and let it be a +1 modifier... Dunno.


So, what I'm trying to get right now is a little more hit power for my second attack (I use haste boots which gives me +1 hit for up to ten rounds a day and another attack when making a full attack round, but hadn't lot bonus modifiers otherwise). Then to get a little more AC (I have 21 but doesn't seem to stop lot of attacks) or some other sort of resistance.


I'll point the forum to the GM if he wants to have a look, he already reads oots :p. I'm quite sure most of the misunderstandings comes from me rather than him ^^

[Aeryr]

One good way of stoping attacks not taking into account AC is using miss chance, that way your enemies have a flat % of missing you, and then they would have to pass your AC.

Defensively speaking Damage Reduction is also nice, maybe an adamantine armor. That would mean that you take less damage of every hit that hits you.

Those giants seem pretty evil good to me, we should kill them, just to be sure.

That's precisely the problem with aligned weapons they tend to be less useful if you have to face enemies with your same alignment. Talk to your DM to see if you can get more good aligned enemies or to see if you can convince the evil giants to join you, promise them to kill and loot some villages or something.

[Gavinfoxx]

My favorite way of playing a character with a big, exotic sword is this.

Take Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Kaorti Resin Jovar.

Buy some Strongarm Bracers.

Get a custom-made Large Masterwork Kaorti Resin Jovar.

Eventually enchant it to +1 Keen (+2 equivalent)

Enjoy your 3d6, 15-20/x4 weapon.

[Greenish]

(I'm medium sized with a large greatsword. I can use it thanks to a feat, but I have a -2 malus to hit. Can't find the english name of the feat)Monkey Grip is the feat, and it is bad.


My character is a tenth level with four levels as a Black Knight. It was advised to me to make this character since I wanted a melee and since we already had a warrior.Blackguard and Fighter. Blackguard isn't very good.


My four feats are the 3 prerequisites (Power attack, Cleave and the feat to destroy someone's weapon (sunder?)) and another feat allowing me to makes critical on 17-20 instead of 19-20 (I would have prefered a sheath that sharps my weapon, but couldn't get one).Improved Sunder (bad) and Improved Critical (okay).



What damage reduction does "unholy" bypass?Unholy greatsword would bypass DR/Evil, DR/Magic and DR/Slashing (and any combinations of them).

[Gavinfoxx]

Right. Retrain Monkey Grip to something else (feat retraining rules are in the PHB II), just about anything else, when you buy a set of Strongarm Bracers.... an item which costs GOLD, which is generally easy to come by (feats are NOT easy to come by!) which COMPLETELY obsolete the Monkey Grip feat.

Remember!

Power attack with a Greatsword: -0 to hit for +0 damage, or -1 to hit for +2 damage, or -2 to hit for +4 damage, or -3 to hit for +6 damage, and so on and so forth.

Monkey Gripping a Large Greatsword: always -2 to hit for +3.5 damage.

Do you see a problem with this??

[Quild]

Power attack with a Greatsword: -0 to hit for +0 damage, or -1 to hit for +2 damage, or -2 to hit for +4 damage, or -3 to hit for +6 damage, and so on and so forth.

Monkey Gripping a Large Greatsword: always -2 to hit for +3.5 damage.

Do you see a problem with this??

Oooooh, I didn't knew power attack add 2 damages by point for 2HS. Never used it though since I lack hit score.

When I joined the team, I wanted to play a Paladin. But the GM told me the others one had already chosen to make an evil group, and it wouldn't fit. He told me blackguard was roughly the same. While looking at the game mechanics, I realized a few days later that he was wrong.

Having a large sword seemed pretty cool because I had the character Guts from the comic Berserk in mind. My blackguard needs to be intimidating, so this choice of sword is rather for my background than for optimizing my damages. And it's unholy for the same reason.

Having to spend a feat to use that sword is the cherry on the top of why this isn't a good choice. Still...

I didn't knew those bracers, but they're 6K GP worth. Not sure the GM would grant those to me and let me chose another feat. Worth a try. But there again, I wonder if I shouldn't keep my arms free for some better stuff. Bracers granting AC or str or something else?

My stuff presently is:
- Haste boots (12K GP) got it from the beginning.
- A full-plate armor granting 9 AC (just realized my GM made a mistake, supposed to be 8, I'll tell him :p), worth 1K5 GP
- My sword (thought it didn't worth much, but since it was a +3 sword at the beginning... makes it worth roughly 18K GP.

I got that at the beginning, at level 7. I'm not sure how much stuff I was supposed to get at this level, a friend says it's too much. Since the GM tries to balance the ennemies to our stuff, I don't see the problem.

Then I found a Ioun stone granting +2 Charisma and got my weapon "enhanced".

I really don't think we will have access to Kaorti resin, but maybe I can get a Jovar. I'll need another feat though!

[Gavinfoxx]

Well, in general, the method I mentioned is the best way to do the Berserk thing in D&D 3.5e.

There are a few other crazy weird swords that could work, like Elven Courtblade or Falchion (Kaorti resin, of course, if you are spending an exotic weapon proficiency; that way you can get the 15-20/x4 thing with Keen. Berserk screams weird exotic crazy weapons -- that's the whole point, right??)

[Greenish]

There are a few other crazy weird swords that could work, like Elven Courtblade or Falchion (Kaorti resin, of course, if you are spending an exotic weapon proficiency; that way you can get the 15-20/x4 thing with Keen. Berserk screams weird exotic crazy weapons -- that's the whole point, right??)Going with Kaorti Resin, you might as well get an exotic base weapon, like Great Falchion, for a few points of more damage.

[Quild]

Kaortis are supposed to create the weapons with their resin, right? Not just put the resin on a weapon.

Can a Kaorti have the skills to create a Julvar which is a planar weapon?

I don't think we'll have kaorti resin anyway :D