Best RANGED physical dmg dealer?

[gnomercy]

Howdy again, if you were to use only core books + CW. What race/classes would you take to min/max out a ranged bow user. Level 6/7 would be nice feats/equipment are also ideas.

I was thinking going straight warrior or rouge warrior. Wood Elf comes to mind for race or half orc. But if i need more feats human is solid.

[gnomercy]

Howdy again, if you were to use only core books + CW. What race/classes would you take to min/max out a ranged bow user. Level 6/7 would be nice feats/equipment are also ideas.

I was thinking going straight warrior or rouge warrior. Wood Elf comes to mind for race or half orc. But if i need more feats human is solid.

[Urpriest]

Hmm, without Scout or Swift Hunter your options are a bit limited. Still, at this level you can reasonably afford a wand of grease or the like. I'd go Rogue. Basically the only advantage to bows is that you can get a lot of attacks in, so you want some form of bonus damage.

Depending on whether you consider the SRD core, a barbarian with Whirling Frenzy might also be worthwhile.

[Mooch]

If I remeber right the a cloistered cleric-zilla with zen archery and knowledge/travel devotions is pretty sick. however I do not think that zen archery is in your list of options (afb atm) but it should still do pretty well, plus you have all the normal clericzilla tatics to fall back on

[Telonius]

Kensai could work. (Samurai or Paladin) 1/Fighter4/KensaiX. First level is to get both Diplomacy and Concentration on your class skills so you can get into Kensai at level 6. I'd suggest Paladin over Samurai, since it gives you a spell list. You could also take a level of Cleric, Rogue, or Monk, if you're willing to wait an extra level to get your BAB up to 5. (Sadly Bard is out, due to alignment not being compatible with Kensai).

Feats would look like:
1 (Human) Combat Expertise
1 Weapon Focus (Longbow)
2 (Ftr1) (Ftr) Point Blank Shot
3 (Ftr2) (Ftr) Rapid Shot
3 Precise Shot
5 (Ftr4) (Ftr) Weapon Specialization (It seriously pains me to pick this, but there's really not much better at this level, given the sources)
6 (Kensai1) Manyshot

Kensai's damage takes a while to ramp up, but you basically get at least a d6 worth of energy damage per hit each level for the next couple levels (Flaming frost shock) plus great options for later (Bane, Exit Wound, Seeking, Thundering, Holy).

EDIT: Zen Archery is available, since it's in CWar, but the Devotions are not.

[gnomercy]

Kensai is a great idea... Thank you!

[Killer Angel]

Looking only at the title, I was obviously thinking "Hulking Hurler!"...

[Person_Man]

Within your books allowed, I too would say Hulking Hurler. It's a shame you can't use Tome of Battle, because Bloodstorm Blade would be the clear winner.

[chaotician375]

As far as classes there's the Order of the Bow Initiate prc from CW. And equipment there's the high tension longbow (its srd but idk what book its in), they cost 4x the cost of the bow before applying composite str bonus cost. the damage is 2D8 so if you have lets say a 16 in strength and u buy a high tension composite longbow with a str bonus to damage that's +3 it costs 700gp for 2D8\+3 at a range of 110 feet.

Technically, you could go for a high tension composite great bow (its an exotic weapon out of a book somewhere im not sure where though) for 2D10+str mod

Feats I like quick draw, rapid shot, point blank shot, precise shot, and if your going Order of the Bow, then u need weapon focus longbow (or great bow if u want) as well, all of these except quick draw are prerequisites for the prc.

The Order of the Bow Initiate gets a class feature called Ranged Precision that deals extra damage so long as you only take a standard action to do so, and the enemy is within 30 feet. And it acts as sneak attack for the most part except the enemy doesn't need to be flat footed for it to work. But anything that increases your sneak attack range effects this class feature ass well.

It's a pretty sweet class, I'd build it Fighter 5/Order of the Bow Initiate 10with 5 more levels of fighter interspersed through out. this garners you a pretty sweet ranged combatant, and high saves across the board to boot. All in all not too shabby. U are kind of a one trick pony though, but its a pretty potent trick, and one you can get off consistantly.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Core + CW is a bit tough. I wouldn't even consider Order of the Bow Initiate, because limiting you to a standard action is just worthless; you can't even use Shot on the Run with it.

I'd probably go Fighter 6/ Exotic Weapon Master 1/ Fighter, with the Weapon Specialization line of feats for extra damage. Max your Str score, and use a Greatbow (CW) with Close-Quarters Ranged Combat from EWM. Take Rapid Shot and Improved Rapid Shot (CW), which at the desired level of 6-7 gives you three attacks/round versus the +1d8 of Order of the Bow Initiate. Your bow should be +1 initially, and add Flaming, Frost, and Shock as you can afford them.

Your limited book selection severely inhibits the potential of any character who deals damage via archery, you would be better off with a melee character of some kind.

[Daftendirekt]

High Tension Longbow (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/High_Tension_Longbow_(3.5e_Equipment))? Look at the source site. That is not SRD. There is no such thing as a 'high tension' bow in real D&D.

As for best archer, see if you can get access to Complete Adventurer and Complete Scoundrel. Then, take a look at the ScoutCAdv class and the Swift HunterCSco feat.

[Answerer]

Archers are stupidly difficult to create in 3.5, and require a lot of books. I don't think you can come up with much of anything with just Core + CW. Get Manyshot, and... I dunno, you have Manyshot, that's about your only solid option. Exotic Weapon Master is a half-decent class that maybe can do you some good, but... that's about it.

If by Core you mean the SRD, and you can convince your DM to use content from CPsi that's available on Wizards' website, you could do Soulbow. It's... well, it's pretty good for what it is, and is probably way better than any other option available to you.

[nedz]

I once played a Ranger 6/OBI 5/ and then I went back to Ranger. The OBI levels were a complete waste, not that they were my idea :smallmad:

The Machine-Gun form of Archery with Rapid shot is hard to beat, especially if you can get some damage bonus. This guy had Wpn Spec (+2) Bow (+1) with some energy enhancements. Best of all he was my Bard's cohort - so Greater Magic Weapon + Music on each shot, and Haste for an extra arrow each round.

[hushblade]

I think I recall a wood elf warblade/eternal blade could make 4 full attacks in one turn on a nova with his bow.

[Answerer]

The Machine-Gun form of Archery with Rapid shot is hard to beat
Are you talking about archery in particular? Because if so, you've described every archer ever; they don't have a choice but to maximize their number of arrows per round. It's the only way to build an archer.

Are you talking about damage in general? Because if so, then no, no it is not hard to beat.

[Gavinfoxx]

Here's the question, though:

Will you be up against DR?

That's the archer's bane.

I would call the best ranged physical damage dealer a Ghost, though. You wouldn't be able to use the specific items in the following writeup, but you could use some items that would be almost comparable. I think Mithral Sianghams with Darkwood hafts work best in those sources.


A ghost has TK at caster level 12, at will, every 1d4 rounds.

A Violent Thrust from a ghost can move 300 pounds of items -- but they can only hurl up to 12 items! The to hit is your base attack bonus plus intelligence modifier or charisma modifier -- so int based or cha based classes with full BAB are great.

(Remember you might have had aging penalties/bonuses before you died, or be an intelligence or charisma focused class, or have 'bought' bad constitution from your point buy, cause it is negated when you become undead. There are also ways to get Charisma to your hit points, but we won't talk about those here.)

Per Telekenesis, the Ghost uses the base damage of weapons without a strength modifier. Thus, the ghost should get the most base damage per weight of the weapon. The ghost does not take any penalty from non proficiency or size categories of the weapon, since it isnt actually wielding the weapon in question.

Per Savage Species, there are damage modifiers beyond 'colossal', such as colossal+, colossal++ and so on.

The best weapon to use would be one that can be 100% made out of Mithral (so you can make them lighter for the same amount of damage), and be of a simple shape to make, and (ideally), is VERY light for the D6's of damage, made to be thrown, and not count as ammunition (so it is not destroyed when it is used). Alternately, other mithral-like materials that can be used, such as Duskwood (which specifically can be made into weapons that require iron) from the book Magic of Faerun. This is good, because trees are massive, even if the wood itself is light, and produce lots of material to make stuff out of!

Look at the Annulat from Planar Handbook. It is basically a throwing chakram, and is 1d6 for the Medium version... which weighs 1/2 lb for an iron one. I think you can see where this is going...

A Colossal++ Mithral version would be 8d6 damage for 16 pounds, and a Colossal+++ Mithral version would be 12d6 damage for 32 pounds. These are the sort of thing you throw while outside, as these versions might be too big for rooms or hallways. Regardless, Ghosts can redecorate with TK fairly readily...

The best formula, to stay under 300 pounds of weapons and 12 items or under, is to get 6 colossal+++ and 6 colossal++ annulats. For a Ghost, that gets you 120d6 damage if all of them hit on a single Violent Thrust. These also would qualify as siege weapons, due to their size, and Wind Wall would not stop them...

The amount of damage is like this:

6 colossal+++ 72d6
6 colossal++ 48d6
12 items
120d6 damage if all hit, which is an average 420 points of slashing damage if all hit... Every 1d4 rounds. Per Ghost. And there are ways to IMPROVE your base TK damage, like Knowledge Devotion!

Of course, if the items aren't enchanted, you can't affect some creatures. There are things in D&D that don't care how many D6 of damage you sling with a nonmagical weapon, since you can't affect them at all... but mostly, adventurers do not have easy access to that sort of thing.

Ghost: One of the best classes in the game!

P.S. This basic concept (throwing big weapons) can *easily* be downgraded to less optimal options for lower power level games... I just did this to show how hardcore the Ghost's TK *can* get, with the 'gloves off', as it were.

[nedz]

OP: Why do you have two identical threads running ?

[wayfare]

Howdy again, if you were to use only core books + CW. What race/classes would you take to min/max out a ranged bow user. Level 6/7 would be nice feats/equipment are also ideas.

I was thinking going straight warrior or rouge warrior. Wood Elf comes to mind for race or half orc. But if i need more feats human is solid.

Your title says physical damage, but I am going to recommend a Hexblade/Arcane Archer anyway -- a surprisingly fun build that really can be you just slinging magical arrows.

To maximize damage, you may want to use rogue as your chassis, or Fighter 2/Rogue X -- In The listed books, the best way to pump your damage is likely sneak attack.

[Gavinfoxx]

See my respone in the other thread!

[Bahamut Omega]

Howdy again, if you were to use only core books + CW. What race/classes would you take to min/max out a ranged bow user. Level 6/7 would be nice feats/equipment are also ideas.

I was thinking going straight warrior or rouge warrior. Wood Elf comes to mind for race or half orc. But if i need more feats human is solid.

I'm going to pull from core since I don't have CW available to me and assume 6th level.

Wood Elf or Half Orc would likely have the same effect, but you might be better off going normal elf. If you're going to be making ranged attacks, the +2 Dex is likely to be more useful to you. Missing by 1 on the attack roll means you deal no damage, having excess strength and depending on a composite bow just makes you ray of enfeeblement fodder.

Let's start by reviewing the benefits and drawbacks of being a ranged attacker. First and foremost, through judicious feat selection, you get more attacks per round than a melee fighter of the same level. So this is more times to deal weapon damage, better odds at landing a critical, and more chances to dish out extra weapon damage from things like a flaming bow. You don't normally get the benefit of your strength modifier, though, unless you use a composite bow. Remember, though, composite bows are useful up to a certain strength level. If your modifier goes below that, you become too weak to effectively use that bow (-2 to attack rolls) and if you get a bonus to strength, it only helps you up to the point that you equal to the bow's strength modifier.

Another benefit is that you're normally pretty agile. It's not going to be in your best interest to weigh yourself down in heavy armor, so your touch AC is likely to be a higher than a dedicated melee fighter. This is useful for surviving when an area gets carpet bombed with fire balls or dodging the ray of enfeeblement when it comes your way. Obviously the counter point is that you're not under a lot of heavy armor, so melee combat can be a real issue for you. This can be an issue for the party as well if they're depending on you to meat shield. You might still be able to do this by either fighting defensively or taking total defense.

The last major benefit for a ranged fighter is the range. It's so obvious it's stupid, but it is significant. A composite longbow has a range of 110'. You don't take ANY penalty to shoot something 110' away from you. You could lose initiative and still get a 2-3 full attacks on a heavily armored fighter if they start off that far away from you. The flip side of this is DM or at least location dependent. If all your fights take place in cramped underground labyrinths, this is much less of a boon. However, a DM I'm playing with now has the fight taking place in the great outdoors on a map that's probably about a quarter square mile in size. There is legitimate reason to use the run action on this map.

So the next thing to consider is what class. I know you were considering rogue, but I dunno if that's a good option. Getting your ranged sneak attack off with a rogue is very difficult. You need to essentially successful hide within 30' of an enemy and then snipe them. The problem with this is that first you need to hide within 10' of an enemy, you only get 1 attack, and you take a -20 penalty to hide yourself again after the shot, so you're making three d20 rolls to do damage once. It'll be awesome if the shot hits, but you can't count on it it and you're kind of screwed if the enemy is immune to sneak attacks.

I recommend going either Fighter or Ranger. The former will give you the benefit of more feats for things like Point Blank Shot, Rapid Shot, Manyshot, Weapon Focus and the all important Weapon Specialization along with a solid pool of hit points if you need to make a stand. The latter will give you most of those feats as bonus feats, but you will miss out on Weapon Specialization which is important to making your weapon's use more universal. What you lose in universality, you make up for with enemy specific bonuses, better reflex saves, more skills, an animal companion and even some minor spell casting. The ranger spell list is very good for a variety of helpful utility spells.

If you go Fighter, you'll get 7 feats, 8 if you're human. I'd spend them all on the feats I mentioned above, as well as Precise Shot (help your allies without a -4 penalty), Dodge, Mobility, and Shot on the Run. There's likely a feat or three in CW which would be helpful for you as well. Anything to help you confirm a crit can be huge. Longbows use a x3 crit modifier. If you have something like Icy Burst on the weapon, that's an extra 2d10 damage on a crit plus the 1d6 from the frost, plus 3d8 plus 3x your strength modifier (assumed +2) and your weapon specialization bonus if it's a composite bow. Assuming average damage for it all, that's 42 damage with one shot, 17 of which isn't subject to DR. You also get an additional 3 points of damage if the enemy was within 30' from the point blank shot feat. Not as bad as getting hit with a great axe in the face with the same enchantments, but not bad for one shot. And the more arrows you put in the air, the more likely you will be to land those shots. Definitely get Improved Critical as soon as you can.

The nice thing with the Fighter build is that you can keep piling development feats on this and it'll just keep getting nastier. Adding flaming burst to your weapon along with icy burst and the damage gets more and more insane when you crit that enemies will probably have to save against massive damage or just get one shotted right out. What sucks about this build is that you're kind of a one trick pony. You can shoot a bow like nothing else, but that's about all you do. You get almost no skill points and if you lose your bow, you are pretty royally screwed.

If you go Ranger, you'll get only 5 feats, 6 if you're human. Two of those will be your Rapid Shot and Many Shot and you'll get them without needing the pre-req of Point Blank Shot. You'll also have 2 favored enemies, one of which you'll deal +4 damage with your weapon attacks (great for undead), the other +2 (maybe constructs). You'll probably want Weapon Focus, maybe Improved Initiative, maybe Combat Expertise (to fight efficiently when fighting defensively), Dodge, and whatever improves your crit confirms. The damage is slightly less with this build for the aforementioned critical if you hit a foe who isn't a favored enemy, about only 36. Assuming it's the favored enemy you have the highest bonus with, though, it becomes 48.

Jeez that was long winded.

[nedz]

Are you talking about archery in particular? Because if so, you've described every archer ever; they don't have a choice but to maximize their number of arrows per round. It's the only way to build an archer.

Are you talking about damage in general? Because if so, then no, no it is not hard to beat.

I was comparing this to the OBI 1 arrow a round archery option.

[Answerer]

Ooooh, I see.

Yeah, that's never a good idea.

[Gavinfoxx]

Or you could ask the Wizard to Grease or Glitterdust enemies, and then, if you are withiin 30' of them, sneak attack them with arrows that way. Or you could get a Ring of Blinking. And.. dodge, mobility and shot on the run? There have GOT to be better ways of doing ranged piercing/bludgeoning/slashing damage than that...

[georgie_leech]

Here's the question, though:

Will you be up against DR?

That's the archer's bane.



Depends on the DR type. If there's anything at all that can bypass it, an archer has an arrow for it.

[Gavinfoxx]

Depends on the DR type. If there's anything at all that can bypass it, an archer has an arrow for it.

Really? How about Lawful or Chaotic *and* some sort of material? Like Lawful and Cold Iron or something.

[georgie_leech]

Really? How about Lawful or Chaotic *and* some sort of material? Like Lawful and Cold Iron or something.

How about a +1 Axiomatic Cold Iron Arrow?

[Piggy Knowles]

Honestly, even a single-classed, Core+CW bard can make a semi-decent archer. Sure, it's a lot better with Dragonfire Inspiration and Knowledge Devotion, but Haste, Rapid Shot, and a +4 bonus to attack and damage from Inspire Courage is pretty solid for archers.

Oh yeah, you get Phantom Steed, too. Don't forget that mounted archery is actually pretty good, since it lets you move and make a full attack. And with your phantom steed flying about at 20 ft/caster level, you'll be absurdly fast and mobile.

And, unlike most of the other options for you, you'd actually have the ability to do things beyond just shooting arrows, too...

Just running off the cuff, you could do something along the lines of...

Human, Bard 20
1- EWP (Greatbow), Point Blank Shot
3- Rapid Shot
6- Precise Shot
9- Mounted Combat
12- Mounted Archery
15- Extend Spell
18- Improved Initiative

While you're at it, pop off some spells to make your archery better. Some good core buffs for an archer include...

Alter Self
Blur/Displacement
Invisibility/Greater Invisibility/Mislead
Mirror Image
Haste
Phantom Steed
Freedom of Movement

[Rubik]

Why not be a Str/Dex/Con-based rogue/fighter using thrown weapons? There's no way with those books to sneak attack past 30', so your best bet is to fire off your ranged attacks in melee.

...Yeah, I think it's stupid too, but what do I know? I'm not a game designer.

[Venusaur]

I'm not sure how this got passed over, but the feat zen archery in Complete Warrior let's you add wisdom to archery instead of dex. Take this as a cleric, pile on buffs, and win.

[Rubik]

I'm not sure how this got passed over, but the feat zen archery in Complete Warrior let's you add wisdom to archery instead of dex. Take this as a cleric, pile on buffs, and win.Except you still need a high Dex for feat prereqs.

[Eldariel]

Cleric Archer is the way to go. Buffs can actually get your damage beyond standard 1d8+Str+4 (Greater Weapon Specialization)+2 (Rage)+Weapon Abilities which is more or less the Warrior Cap (guess you add Dragon Disciple for some extra Str in there). And you can provide Align Weapon, Greater Magic Weapon & similar essentials yourself and craft your own magic bow (archers, more than any other archetype, rely on the magic enhancements of their weapon and arrows to do anything, especially in a Coreish environment). Wood Elf makes sense since it makes the pointbuy easier for you and gives you Str buff and free Longbow Proficiency. Human picking EWP: Greatbow is also an option since you get Righteous Might eventually which is a size category increase and thus gets you more mileage out of your weapon dice (Human taking EWP: Greatbow is as well off feat-wise as a normal Elf).

Complete Warrior is pretty much garbage far as Warriors are concerned. Greatbow is worth it if you can get it for free but not worth a feat, and Improved Rapid Shot would be worth it alone but not with Manyshot as a prerequisite. Zen Archery does help an Archer Cleric a ton tho.


Basically, you want max Wisdom, high Strength, 13 Dex (for Rapid Shot), 14-12 Con and Int and Cha can be dumps (though obviously, 2 skillpoints per level does suck, but you won't really have a use for turning as a Core + CW Cleric Archer unless you pick up Divine Might, which is admittedly good but requires high Cha).

Zen Archery, Rapid Shot, Quicken Spell (on level 9, for Divine Favor; +3 To Hit and Damage for one spell as a swift action is pretty darn nice - level 15 you can finally Quicken Divine Power without items too), Craft Magic Weapons and Armor (weapon proficiency somehow), and you're about done. Rest is equipment- and spellmancy (+1 Bane arrows are good and cheap, carry for multiple types; your bow needs to penetrate as many DRs as possible and apply as many bonus damage dice as possible - +1 again as Greater Magic Weapon takes care of the rest - get Prayer Beads of Karma from DMG ASAP to increase your CL by +4 for Greater Magic Weapons and Magic Vestments).


War-domain could give you free Longbow Proficiency and Weapon Focus if you have a deity with Longbow as their favored weapon. That's one option. Trickery-domain has some really sweet spells later on (Polymorph Any Object, Time Stop) so if you perceive game going late that's a good one (also, Hide goes well with Archery as does Invisibility and Nondetection) alongside the usual suspects of Luck and Travel. Animal if you perceive the game getting to level 20.

EDIT: Complete Warrior also has the Planning-domain which has the free Extend Spell (convenient as you prolly want it eventually anyways unless using Rods instead) and Time Stop, and Fate which includes Uncanny Dodge alongside True Strike, Mind Blank and Foresight (all useful spells).


Except you still need a high Dex for feat prereqs.

13 for Rapid Shot is all you need. Rest of the feats aren't really worth your while. Seeking weapon property does most of the rest, and then you have numeric bonuses only left.

[eggs]

Howdy again, if you were to use only core books + CW. What race/classes would you take to min/max out a ranged bow user.
Step 1:
Build the biggest bow you are able to build. Tons and tons of Adamantine are ideal.
Step 2:
Centaur+Barbarian+Hulking Hurler.
Step 3:
Throw the bow.
:smalltongue:

[mucco]

The hard part in doing archers is maximizing the arrows shot, and the damage per arrow. The scarcity of book sources really hurts.

Level 7 build:
Orc Barbarian 1/Ranger 1/Fighter 4/Frenzied Berserker 1 (please ignore multiclassing penalties!)
Feats: Cleave, Intimidating Rage, Destructive Rage, Power Attack, Point Blank Shot, Rapid Shot
Ability scores (PB 32)
Str 17 +1 (Lv 4) +4 (racial) +2 (enh. item) = 24. In rage+frenzy, 34 (+12 bonus).
Dex 16 +2 (item) = 18.
Con 14, Int 9, Wis 6, Cha 6 (lol).

Relevant items: +2 str & dex, +1 longbow (composite +12 str). Lots of ranger wands, and a backup composite +6 bow (have to account for when you might be fatigued after rage).
Routine: full attack for +6 (BAB) +4 (Dex) +1 (Haste) +1 (bow) -2 (Rapid Shot) = +10/+10/+10/+5 (1d8+13), because frenzied berserkers have an extra attack. You will get a +2 on damage against favoures enemies. Probably get a mount so that you can still move and full attack. Have a friendly caster throw lots of buffs at you for the attack rolls and possibly damage (Heroism, Aid, Bless, Inspire Courage, Cat's Grace, Good Hope are all good) but, most importantly, Calm Emotions. With a long range nuke like this guy, failure to stop him means TPK. His Will save in Rage is +0, but it might be buffed by some of the above spells.

Some splat would help this guy immensely. CAdv has brutal throw (Str to attack rolls), Whirling Frenzy from UA I think would be likewise awesome. Lots of other stuff around too, I'm sure.

[ericgrau]

For feats improved rapid shot is the best feat by far. It's effectively a +2 for 1 feat, because honestly when do you not rapid shot?

If you can spare the extra feats ranged disarm, ranged pin and maybe ranged sunder are good utility feats but I wouldn't focus on them so much that you sacrifice damage. On a similar note you might also look into improved mounted archery for mobility.

Communicate with your party casters about getting flame arrow, greater magic weapon and heroism since they help a lot. If you can't get everything you want then you might want to look into arcane archer. It gets maligned because it's not as useful if you can get GMW, but if you can't get GMW then that's a bonus you can't overlook.

For gear get boots of speed for an extra haste attack, lesser bracers of archery on top of the standard stat boosting stuff. Get bane arrows for common foe types and arrows of different metal types to handle DR. For bow enchants holy and usually wounding are my favorites, but if you can't wait you might get shocking or frost.

+1 to wood elf. They get +2 str AND +2 dex, not instead of.

For class a core ranger is a 1 level dip for favored enemy (and only if you can pick a good one); everything else is only for skills and worse in terms of damage. Likewise a cleric without DMM persist is behind. Either your stats are behind or you lose rounds to buffing and your damage is still behind. You need level 15 to quicken divine power + divine favor and then you're still behind because you need ~6 other feats including improved rapid shot to keep up in attack bonus. A barbarian or similar is tricky because you'll get penalties to a composite bow when not raging, but I suppose it could be done. I'd get to at least fighter 4 for weapon specialization; you need any bonus damage you can without losing full BAB.

A master thrower with palm throw touch attacks, flurry, TWF, rapid shot and a ton of cash to blow on shurikens might work at high levels. Because multiple +1 +1d6 shurikens are way cheaper than a +1 +3d6 shuriken. It would be behind until high levels though.

[Talionis]

Master Thrower is in complete Warrior. A one level dip lets you double you attack number with Palm Throw. Then you need some way to add damage to each attack. Sneak Attack might be an option. I have been partial to Fire Shuriken spell. It can create decent ammunition in near limitless amounts.

[ericgrau]

You mean flame arrow? Because that could be cast on shuriken too. There's a good idea. Come to think of it greater magic weapon works too. If you can get a ring of blinking or a party member with greater invisibility then that could be a reliable source of sneak attack.

[Eldariel]

For feats improved rapid shot is the best feat by far. It's effectively a +2 for 1 feat, because honestly when do you not rapid shot?

Two feats. It has Manyshot as a feat tax (though it can be useful on its own on surprise rounds and in some Skirmish-situations where you can afford 30' distance).

[Snowbluff]

Cleric. With a bow and some buffs.

[Talionis]

You mean flame arrow? Because that could be cast on shuriken too. There's a good idea. Come to think of it greater magic weapon works too. If you can get a ring of blinking or a party member with greater invisibility then that could be a reliable source of sneak attack.

I meant Fire Shuriken from Complete Arcane which may not be available in his campaign. It's a 2nd level Wu Jen and Assassin spell that makes a permanent until used 3d6 fire damage Shuriken that you are automatically proficient with. Each casting makes 1 per three levels Shurikens that an unlimited duration.

[DoctorGlock]

Is SRD core? Psionics might have your answer.

Look at dissolving weapon, a second level power

4d6 acid, charges a weapon until used. Magic used on weapons affects 50 bits of ammo. Manifest this and now your shots add 4d6 damage. Augment it for more.

Psion 4/Ranger 2/Slayer 1, you kinda suck now but get better fast.

attack with rapid shot twice (more when buffed) for over 8d6 damage (plus bow stuff)

[Piggy Knowles]

4d6 acid, charges a weapon until used. Magic used on weapons affects 50 bits of ammo. Manifest this and now your shots add 4d6 damage. Augment it for more.

Is there actually a rule that supports it? Some specific spells and powers have this clause, but Dissolving Weapon does not, and I've never found a general rule that says this.

[DoctorGlock]

Is there actually a rule that supports it? Some specific spells and powers have this clause, but Dissolving Weapon does not, and I've never found a general rule that says this.

It was somewhere on the old BG boards meaning I can't find it now. At worst you spam it in your downtime since it's instantaneous and only 3 PP. Hopefully someone else will know the source.

Edit: Well d'oh, it only augments in CP, not SRD. Still, you can prep a ton of arrows in advance and get fair damage. And hey, you are still half a psion.

Edit 2: You can also do something similar with a wizard and 2 levels of arcane archer followed by eldritch knight. You can imbue fun times into your weapon and are still half a wizard.

[chaotician375]

High Tension Longbow (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/High_Tension_Longbow_(3.5e_Equipment))? Look at the source site. That is not SRD. There is no such thing as a 'high tension' bow in real D&D.

My bad i stumbled across the link in there SRD equipment list.

[Bahamut Omega]

Is SRD core? Psionics might have your answer.

Look at dissolving weapon, a second level power

4d6 acid, charges a weapon until used. Magic used on weapons affects 50 bits of ammo. Manifest this and now your shots add 4d6 damage. Augment it for more.

Psion 4/Ranger 2/Slayer 1, you kinda suck now but get better fast.

attack with rapid shot twice (more when buffed) for over 8d6 damage (plus bow stuff)

Read the full description on that power again, Glock. The target is 1 held weapon. You might be able to convince the DM that it works for the 1 shuriken you're holding, but not all 50 of them.

[DoctorGlock]

Read the full description on that power again, Glock. The target is 1 held weapon. You might be able to convince the DM that it works for the 1 shuriken you're holding, but not all 50 of them.

Very often "1 weapon" also means 50 rounds of ammo in D&D speak.

And failing that you hold the arrow, manifest, put in the quiver, then repeat. Assuming an int of 14 my build gets 21 PP/day, 7 arrows. Do this in your offtime and it adds up fast, assuming you aint dungeon delving every day.

[Gavinfoxx]

My bad i stumbled across the link in there SRD equipment list.

And this is why we hate dandwiki. There is no quality control, and people totally LIE when they say that something is part of the SRD!

Go here: http://www.d20srd.org/ for the real SRD!

[Bahamut Omega]

Very often "1 weapon" also means 50 rounds of ammo in D&D speak.

And failing that you hold the arrow, manifest, put in the quiver, then repeat. Assuming an int of 14 my build gets 21 PP/day, 7 arrows. Do this in your offtime and it adds up fast, assuming you aint dungeon delving every day.

Very often is not the same as always. Dissolving weapon is specific to state that the target is, "One held weapon." See the description here:

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/dissolvingWeapon.htm

Consider also the difference between the spells Magic Weapon and Greater Magic Weapon. The former states that the target is, "Weapon touched." The latter states, "One weapon or fifty projectiles (all of which must be in contact with each other at the time of casting)." Note that the latter description is extremely specific to include the projectiles while the former description is vague.

You have to be very careful about making very broad assumptions with the rules in 3.5, doing so can lead to making very broken characters only because you misread the rules and are propagating that misinformation. There's lots of ways to break the game within the confines of the rules, so let's stick to those.

[Averis Vol]

paladins make surprisingly good archers, if you can get races of the wild, theres a ranged smite ACF for elfs, so you could be a wood elf paladin and drop smite on your arrows. theres also a feat that does it in BoED but i won't even bother considering a build for that if your only core and CW, RoTW was stretching it.

[Dusk Eclipse]

Really? How about Lawful or Chaotic *and* some sort of material? Like Lawful and Cold Iron or something.

IIRC Force arrows bypassed all DR, or a Shadow Striking (ToM) can do that too, though I can't remember if it is legal for arrows and/or bows

[Gavinfoxx]

Force arrows bypass DR. The Energy Bow arrows are ambiguous on the matter. Shadow Striking does not work with bows, explicitly. A +1 Splitting (+3) Precise (+1) Force (+2) bow is like a +7 weapon... You would have to make arrows completely out of metal, and enchant them as +1 shadow striking arrows, for +4 total.

[Rubik]

If the MIC is in the mix at some point, remember that you can stack item enhancements for an extra 50% cost. Throw on as many energy assault crystals (Least, Lesser, and Greater, since they don't stack with the weapon's energy types, but they should stack with each other) for a 50% markup as you can, because you need all the damage on there you can manage, and they're cheaper even with the 50% markup. Just don't put any energy types on your bow or arrows. For THAT you'll want special things like splitting and force and seeking. And then get some raptor arrows that you can throw on nifty things like burrowing (CW 135) and collision (XPH 165 or somewhere in the MIC) and exit wounds (CW 134). Remember, arrows (even raptor arrows) are ammo, so divide the cost by 50 for all the stuff you stick on them.

[nedz]

For feats improved rapid shot is the best feat by far. It's effectively a +2 for 1 feat, because honestly when do you not rapid shot?

Not really, it doesn't add to damage and by the time you get it you expect to hit most of the time anyway, and then there is the Manyshot feat tax.

For two feats: Weapon Focus and Weapon Specialisation I can get +1/+2, and these are pretty ordinary feats.