Making my Ubermount!

[Snowbluff]

Okay, so this thread (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19866958/Supermount!?pg=1)gave me the idea to do a badA dragon riding halfling build as my next character. I've been mulling over some ideas.

For starters, the basic Idea is Halfling Pally5/Bestmaster1/HalflingOutrider. I would take Devoted Tracker and Draconic Steed, which are key to this build.

I might take Battle Blessing, but if I don't end up with a Arc Hierophant build it wouldn't be too useful. Arc Hierophant would be good with Obtain Familiar and a single dip, especially since the Pally benefits are far apart from each other, making Pally Specail mount levels not as useful.

First question. If I take 2 levels in prestige Paladin, do I add the 2+3 levels to my pally level for my mount? Does Special Mount stack like Animal Companion? Are there other ways of improving my Pally Special Mount level?

Second, is it worth really worth the trickiness to take Arc Heirophant for the familiar bonuses? The AnC bonuses are nice, maybe we should do some math once we figure the paladin levels out.

[Namfuak]

You are not supposed to be both a regular and prestige paladin.



If you use any of the variant classes presented here, the standard version of the class should be unavailable. For instance, you shouldn't include both the standard paladin character class and the paladin prestige class in the same game.


In any case, the Paladin Mount is separate from an animal companion, so presumably it would not mesh with Arcane Hierophant's animal companion progression. Unfortunately I am AFB right now so I can't look up any better options.

[Aeryr]

Arcane hierophant? In an ubermount? Probably not going to happen. Arcane Hierophant (one of my favorite prcs) requires having trackless step as a class feature (if you were a bamboo spirit folk it might be ok, but you are not) and 2nd level casting both in arcane (you don't have that) and divine spellcasting (you might end getting 2nd level divine casting as a paladin but you will need more levels). Having said that even if you were to qualify for Arcane Hierophant it doesn't advance special mount and probably your special mount/animal companion is better than your potential special mount/animal companion/familiar.

Recomendations for an ubermount, three levels in wild plains outrider is quite an easy class to get around and fits nicely with the build. If you are dead set in getting a draconic steed then probably the level that is left should be beastmaster 2. If you are not dead set in a dragon I do encourage Arglarondan Griffonrider (as it gives you a griffon as a mount).

[togapika]

Cavalier from pathfinder? Take the beast rider archetype if you want your mount to be something weird...

[Snowbluff]

Arcane hierophant? In an ubermount? Probably not going to happen. Arcane Hierophant (one of my favorite prcs) requires having trackless step as a class feature (if you were a bamboo spirit folk it might be ok, but you are not) and 2nd level casting both in arcane (you don't have that) and divine spellcasting (you might end getting 2nd level divine casting as a paladin but you will need more levels). Having said that even if you were to qualify for Arcane Hierophant it doesn't advance special mount and probably your special mount/animal companion is better than your potential special mount/animal companion/familiar.

Recomendations for an ubermount, three levels in wild plains outrider is quite an easy class to get around and fits nicely with the build. If you are dead set in getting a draconic steed then probably the level that is left should be beastmaster 2. If you are not dead set in a dragon I do encourage Arglarondan Griffonrider (as it gives you a griffon as a mount).

Well... quaifying isn't so bad, as you can cheese into it easily, druid gives Trackless step and AnC. Beyond that, a single dip or two and sharing early entry cheese will make it easy to get into. Only a single level of Heirophant is needed with Obtain Familiar to give the entire NA bonus, but not much else. The option is pretty sweet for a caster Ubercharge as well.



Cavalier from pathfinder? Take the beast rider archetype if you want your mount to be something weird...

I'm against using PF for this exact reason. PF != DnD 3.5, and fiddling with this crap in 3.5 is what I like about the system so much. That being said, I'll ask if the DM will use the PF+3.5 rules I use.



You are not supposed to be both a regular and prestige paladin.



In any case, the Paladin Mount is separate from an animal companion, so presumably it would not mesh with Arcane Hierophant's animal companion progression. Unfortunately I am AFB right now so I can't look up any better options.

It say "shouldn't" not "can't" :smallwink:

I was considering Heirophant for filling it what would be dead levels for the pally mount. The progression for the mount is choppy, and has sharp drop offs.

Side note, I'm going to look at the pally draconic mount options. I want something with Medium size for moving through dungeons, and I'll have to check which option will give the best combo of HD with the Special Mount Bonus. The Ubermount thread has the FAQ reference that states that the dragon gets the dragon HD benefits, which are pretty damn sweet.

[Kaje]

In any case, the Paladin Mount is separate from an animal companion, so presumably it would not mesh with Arcane Hierophant's animal companion progression. Unfortunately I am AFB right now so I can't look up any better options.The trick in supermount builds is the Devoted Tracker feat which makes your special mount an animal companion, so that paladin5/beastmaster2/wild plains outrider3/halfling outrider 10 has an animal that has the HD and abilities of an 18th level paladin mount and an 18th level druid animal companion.

[Akal Saris]

I'm against using PF for this exact reason. PF != DnD 3.5, and fiddling with this crap in 3.5 is what I like about the system so much. That being said, I'll ask if the DM will use the PF+3.5 rules I use.


I can't say I understand this attitude - PF just gives more options to fiddle around with. It's like allowing Dragon Magazine or Oriental Adventures. Besides, cavalier mounts are terrible compared with a 3.5 ubermount anyhow :smalltongue:

Speaking of Dragon Magazine, the Ranger-Knight of Furmundy (Sp?) is a terrific 1-level dip for an ubermount build. It gives +6 paladin level advancement for a mount in the first level. It requires a ton of feats to enter though.

[Snowbluff]

I can't say I understand this attitude - PF just gives more options to fiddle around with. It's like allowing Dragon Magazine or Oriental Adventures. Besides, cavalier mounts are terrible compared with a 3.5 ubermount anyhow :smalltongue:

Speaking of Dragon Magazine, the Ranger-Knight of Furmundy (Sp?) is a terrific 1-level dip for an ubermount build. It gives +6 paladin level advancement for a mount in the first level. It requires a ton of feats to enter though.

About PF, it's not that I don't like it, it's that the options tend not to mesh really well with 3.5 builds, like the PF Cavalier Mounts. :smalltongue:

Dragon Magazine is fair game due to my fiat as a DM in the groups I work with. Can I get the number on one? It sounds really sweet.

[kulosle]

There is a record laying around somewhere that was beyond cheesy, not a single level of base classes. But it still has all the important tricks in it. So Arcane Heirophant is really what makes this build work. There is the feats holy mount and theurgic mount. It lets you add non paladin divine caster levels and arcane caster levels respectively stack with your paladin level for determining the bonuses of your mount. Arcane Heirophant ups both so with each level of AH you are effectively raising the level of your familiar companion mount by 1/1/2 respectively. The tricky part is you have to find a prestige class that uses effective paladin level for determining your mount but lets you be an alignment that a druid can be. There are a few out there. Or do some extreme cheese to get into AH without taking druid.

If your interested there is also a wizard variant that combines its familiar and mount. It means taking 5 levels of wizard but it might be worth it.

[Hand_of_Vecna]

If you're dipping Druid for trackless step, how are you putting Druid and Paladin in your build? A NG variant?

You can do some crazy **** with third party material/dragon/reasonable houserules with ubermount, but the original point of Super Mount was that it was RAW craziness.

[Snowbluff]

There is a record laying around somewhere that was beyond cheesy, not a single level of base classes. But it still has all the important tricks in it. So Arcane Heirophant is really what makes this build work. There is the feats holy mount and theurgic mount. It lets you add non paladin divine caster levels and arcane caster levels respectively stack with your paladin level for determining the bonuses of your mount. Arcane Heirophant ups both so with each level of AH you are effectively raising the level of your familiar companion mount by 1/1/2 respectively. The tricky part is you have to find a prestige class that uses effective paladin level for determining your mount but lets you be an alignment that a druid can be. There are a few out there. Or do some extreme cheese to get into AH without taking druid.

If your interested there is also a wizard variant that combines its familiar and mount. It means taking 5 levels of wizard but it might be worth it.

Hmm, so like a Bamboo Spiritfolk Cleric/Wizard/PrCPally/Beastmaster/ArcHeir...

Take Theurgic Bond, Theurgic Mount, Devoted Tracker, and Holy Mount. Assuming 14 for each caster level you get AnC 14(Beastmaster+ArcHeir)+14(TheurgicBond-Wiz)=28, and Mount 4(PrCPally)+28(HolyMount-Cleric-Wiz)=32. Taking Practiced Spellcaster for Cleric and Wizard will add 4 to each totaling. 32 AnC Levels and 40 Paladin Levels. Paladin gives 2 HD/5levels=8, and Druid gives 2 HD/2levels=16. This could work with NO ArcHeir Levels, but keep in mind the Theurgic Bond/etc is messy, as it state Class Levels. A Thuerge/ArcHeir should qualify as Divine+Arcane Casting, but it might not count for Familiat granting Levels...


If you're dipping Druid for trackless step, how are you putting Druid and Paladin in your build? A NG variant?

You can do some crazy **** with third party material/dragon/reasonable houserules with ubermount, but the original point of Super Mount was that it was RAW craziness.

You'd have to take levels in Cavalier, let it grant a mount, as a LN Druid. :smalltongue:
It's a little tough this way, as BaB requirements are the Bane of caster builds, but you could get away with Druid4/Duskblade5/ArcHeir2/Cavalier1/Archeir8 no cheese required. That way you can also channel spells as a Standard while your Ubermount pounces the guy. Actually, this is a really good Idea, I should try it out. A single pally level might qualify for you Cavalier getting Theurgic Mount and Holy Mount if your DM will allow it for Cav Mount. I'm going to have to mull this one over, since dual mount progression would be key.

[Yorrin]

Can I get the number on one? It sounds really sweet.

#317

Prereqs:
Alignment: Any good
Skills: Handle Animal 4, Hide 2, Move Silently 2, Ride 8
Feats: Mounted Combat, Track, Trample, Two-Weapon Fighting.
Base Attack: +5.

[Snowbluff]

#317

Prereqs:
Alignment: Any good
Skills: Handle Animal 4, Hide 2, Move Silently 2, Ride 8
Feats: Mounted Combat, Track, Trample, Two-Weapon Fighting.
Base Attack: +5.

Sweet, this should make a Druid entry for Uber Mount ArcHeir very good.

[Yorrin]

Druid entry

My thoughts exactly ^_^

[Aeryr]

Since you are going druid I suggest ACF

-You can get track as a ranger with the unearthed arcana ACF

-Also the halfling druid ACF from races of the wild gives you enhanced link +4 to ride your animal companion and you can share woodland stride and trackless stride with your animal companion.

-For more cheese there is totem druid (dragon magazine 335) that adds a +2 to animal companion but greatly reduces the list of animal companions, since you are going to use devoted tracker to turn your special mount into your animal companion it should work.

Ps. Sorry if my first post was a bit harsh there is no mention of druid in the OP and you talk about the "classic" supermount so I thought you were going with it.

[Snowbluff]

Since you are going druid I suggest ACF

-You can get track as a ranger with the unearthed arcana ACF

-Also the halfling druid ACF from races of the wild gives you enhanced link +4 to ride your animal companion and you can share woodland stride and trackless stride with your animal companion.

-For more cheese there is totem druid (dragon magazine 335) that adds a +2 to animal companion but greatly reduces the list of animal companions, since you are going to use devoted tracker to turn your special mount into your animal companion it should work.

Ps. Sorry if my first post was a bit harsh there is no mention of druid in the OP and you talk about the "classic" supermount so I thought you were going with it.

Yeah, I've been mulling through these. I've been thinking about trading way my Wildshaping since I'll be mounted 100% of the time. I do want to go halfling, but I've been wanting to make room for feats. Strongheart or Dark Chaos Shuffle elf to knock away at those Ranger-Knight prereqs.

The Track ACF is good since I was dipping Ranger. I can toss the level into fighter and cross class the Hide2/Move Silently2 skils prereqs. My Int will be moderately high for Duskblade regardless.

I'm thinking Duskblade1/Fighter1/Druid4/ArcHeir2/Knight-Ranger in that order, then fill in the rest as I go. I'll grab Precocious Apprentice, Practiced Spellcaster(Duskblade), and Obtain Familiar for Theurgic Bond (Better that Holy and Theurgic Mounts, which I'll get later).

EDIT: I might be able to drop a fighter Level for something more productive, since I am delaying Knight Ranger until 9 (So I can pick up Devoted Tracker at the same time), and I got the feats I need from Cheesecake Elf. Maybe I'll use the fighter feat for Draconic Steed.

Mmm... I get high on Dragon Material, TYVM!

It's k, bro. I honestly didn't feel any animosity in your response. I was going classic until I got the Dragon #s I needed, and the idea of tossing Druid buffs and control spells while my dragon does the fighting for me is just too awesome.

[Aeryr]

BTW note that you will need to take theurgic bond twice since it can progress familiar OR animal companion.

[Snowbluff]

BTW note that you will need to take theurgic bond twice since it can progress familiar OR animal companion.

Yeah, well if I take it once I can apply it to my AnC levels or my Familiar. The Familiar bonuses are not very good, and I was only getting a familiar to qualify for Theurgic Bond to get Wizard, Mystic Theurge, and Arcane Heirphant to add more Animal Companion levels (The fastest HD gain, more Bang of my buck). :smallwink:

[kulosle]

Familiar bonuses are nice too because it makes your creature intelligent. That means skill points and feats for it. Very useful.

[Snowbluff]

Familiar bonuses are nice too because it makes your creature intelligent. That means skill points and feats for it. Very useful.

Dragon Mounts start with a decent Int Score, so it can take feats and skill already. I would also only benefit from later levels, since Wiz2 (for my current build) and ArcHeir10 are taken earlier.

Btw, Druid4/Wiz2/Archeir2/RangerKnight1/ArcHeir8/MysticTheurge3 is where my build is. I'm using Precocious Apprentice to get ArcHeir without a third wizard level.

Grabbing a Scroll o' Divine Power will relax BaB requirement, allowing me to drop a Druid level for another in specialist Wizard, giving access to Theurgic Specialist (Leonal's Roar, anybody? :smallwink:)

[PlzBreakMyCmpAn]

Arcane hierophant? In an ubermount? Probably not going to happen.I love it when people forget about one of my world record bui

[Snowbluff]

I love it when people forget about one of my world record bui

Lol, inorite? Holy Mount, Theurgic Mount, Theurgic Bond, and Devoted Tracker working in such beautiful (or headache inducing and AoO provoking, in your case) harmony. :smallcool:

[Kaulz]

I don´t get it... CplAdv says :

If you have both the special mount and animal companion class features, you can designate your special mount as your animal companion. The mount gains all the benefits of being both your special mount and your animal companion. For instance, a 5th-level paladin/6th-level ranger’s special mount would
have 4 bonus Hit Dice, a +6 natural armor adjustment, +2 Strength, +1 Dexterity, two bonus tricks, and Intelligence 6, as well as the empathic link,
improved evasion, share spells, share saving throws, and link special abilities.

so id check it :
Pala lvl5 - 2HD 4NA 1Str 6Int ...
Rangerlvl6 - 2HD 2NA 1Str 1Dex ..
Equals - 4HD 6NA 2Str ...blabla

IMO it says just do add the bonis to each other not to count Charakter LVL for both , Specialmount and Animal comp.

cause in that case it would be like:
4HD 6NR 2Str 7Int
4HD 4NR 2Str 2Dex

sorry for Nobing / sorry if i broke ur build

[Snowbluff]

Theurgic Mount adds my levels in Arcane casting to my mount progression.
Holy Mount adds my levels in Divine Casting to my mount progression.
Theurgic Bond adds the levels of my familiar improving classes to my Animal Companion progression.

The feat you cited only lets me add the progressions together.

[Kaulz]

The trick in supermount builds is the Devoted Tracker feat which makes your special mount an animal companion, so that paladin5/beastmaster2/wild plains outrider3/halfling outrider 10 has an animal that has the HD and abilities of an 18th level paladin mount and an 18th level druid animal companion.



He only listing Devoted Tracker...Is it posible like he write it?

[Snowbluff]

He only listing Devoted Tracker...Is it posible like he write it?

It's possible, but this is the old method. My method and Breakmycampaign's method use the feats I mentioned in our builds.

[Kaulz]

So i have to count paladin AND lets say beastmaster classes for BOTH Special mound and animalcomp?!? Still not sure if this is right sorry...

[Nightgaun7]

I've been working on an ubermount build of my own here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=14544045#post14544045), might help you a little.

[Snowbluff]

THE BUILD IN A NUTSHELL (from what I recall):
Druid4: Gives animal companion level 4.
Wizard2: Gives Familiar level 2.
RangerKinght: Gives Special Mount level 7.
ArcaneHeirophant: Gives +10 animal companion level and +10 Familiar level. Your Animal Companion has your Familiar Benefits.
Feats:
Devoted Tracker: Your Animal companion gains your special mount benefits.
Theurgic Mount: Add your Arcane levels (Wizard 2 +Arcane Heirophant 10= 12) to your Special mount level. +12 Special Mount.
Holy Mount: Theurgic Mount, but divine (Druid 4 + Arcane Heiropahnt 10= 14) Special mount +14
Theurgic Bond: Add your Familiar granting class (Wizard2 + Arcane Heirophant 10) to your Animal Companion level. Animal Companion +12


So i have to count paladin AND lets say beastmaster classes for BOTH Special mound and animalcomp?!? Still not sure if this is right sorry...
>.> Beastmaster isn't even a part of this thread, and even if it was, I am not sure what you are asking. Could you be more specific?

I've been working on an ubermount build of my own here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=14544045#post14544045), might help you a little.

What? No, what we are experiencing is thread necromancy, not my continued need for help. This build is about as good as it can get without bloodlines. :smalltongue:

[Urpriest]

So i have to count paladin AND lets say beastmaster classes for BOTH Special mound and animalcomp?!? Still not sure if this is right sorry...

I think I know what's confusing you.

The important element in the build you quoted is Halfling Outrider, which progresses both Animal Companion and Special Mount. It's not the method Snowbluff has settled on here, rather it's a different (and IMHO less cheesy) way to get a powerful mount.

So in the build you quoted, Paladin 5, Wild Plains Outrider 3, and Halfling Outrider 10 all add to Paladin Mount level, so it's as a level 18 Paladin, while Beastmaster 2 and Halfling Outrider 10 add to animal companion, which along with Natural Bond gives a total of 18.

[Kaulz]

[QUOTE=Snowbluff;14562478]THE BUILD IN A NUTSHELL (from what I recall):
Druid4: Gives animal companion level 4.
Wizard2: Gives Familiar level 2.
RangerKinght: Gives Special Mount level 7.
ArcaneHeirophant: Gives +10 animal companion level and +10 Familiar level. Your Animal Companion has your Familiar Benefits.
Feats:
Devoted Tracker: Your Animal companion gains your special mount benefits.
Theurgic Mount: Add your Arcane levels (Wizard 2 +Arcane Heirophant 10= 12) to your Special mount level. +12 Special Mount.
Holy Mount: Theurgic Mount, but divine (Druid 4 + Arcane Heiropahnt 10= 14) Special mount +14
Theurgic Bond: Add your Familiar granting class (Wizard2 + Arcane Heirophant 10) to your Animal Companion level. Animal Companion +12


where is Theurgic Mount Holy Mount Theurgic Bond from? cause Dragonmagazine is out for me..

maybe I just dont understand the wording of devoted tracker... thx anyway

[Shadroth]

Devoted Tracker: Your Animal companion gains your special mount benefits.

Forgive me if I'm missing something, but Devoted Tracker has the requirement of the Smite Evil ability. Where exactly does one acquire that ability from Wizard/Druid/Arcane Hierophant classes?

[Snowbluff]

Forgive me if I'm missing something, but Devoted Tracker has the requirement of the Smite Evil ability. Where exactly does one acquire that ability from Wizard/Druid/Arcane Hierophant classes?

Celestial is the method I used, and I forgot to have it listed. The LA is small enough to be bought.

[Shadroth]

Of course. I was thinking along the lines of ACFs or bonus feats or something, of which I've come up blank. Are there any?

[Snowbluff]

Of course. I was thinking along the lines of ACFs or bonus feats or something, of which I've come up blank. Are there any?

If there was, I traded out pretty much everything from Druid, so it's not really an option.

An ACF for Druid to be LG would let the Paladin be used.

This post (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19871954/Lists_of_Stuff&post_num=3#338421590) has a list of other things that give smite.

@Kaulz The three feats are from Dragon Mag. :smalltongue:

[Kaulz]

how to build it whitout Dragonmagazine? is it even possible?

[thethird]

A strongheart halfling paladin 5 / beastmaster 1 / alagrondian griffon rider 1 / Wild plains outrider 3 / Halfling outrider 10

A griffon with 16 levels of special mount and 17 levels of animal companion, with a rider on top.

Does that work?

[Urpriest]

how to build it whitout Dragonmagazine? is it even possible?

It's a different sort of build. Without all the caster-stacking, you use Halfling Outrider to advance Animal Companion and Mount, and forget about having a Familiar. The build thethird lists is a particular form, in general the Griffonrider level can be anything that advances one of the two progressions, depending on which you need maximized.

[Snowbluff]

I wold say thethird's method seems like the closest thing. Dragon Magazine is why I made this build in the first place.

[lunar2]

simple build (iirc)

pal 5/ beast master 1 / halfling outrider 10 / faith scion 4

faith scion (Unearthed Arcana) advances both special mount and animal companion, as well.

in fact, if you don't want to be a halfling, you can go

pal 5/ beast master 1/ faith scion 10 / legacy champion 4, and have legacy champion advance faith scion.

why does everyone always forget the scions?