[PF] Oh geez what did I get myself into

[masterjoda99]

Ok, so, I'm brainstorming for character ideas for a Pathfinder Gestalt game. Yeah. Anyway, my initial attempt relies heavily on 3rd party material, and while my GM is fine with that and doesn't really care, it kinda leaves a bad taste in my mouth to do so. So, I had a couple other ideas for viable combinations.

First, I had the idea of Sorcerer//Oracle. I think I can basically piece this one together myself. Pick decent spells from arcane and divine magics, get some metamagic feats, it's all good, especially since both are charisma casters.

The other idea I had is where I need help: Wizard//Alchemist. See, I know how wizards roll, but I don't really know what to do with the alchemist side to make the two synergize and complement each other especially well. Of particular note of sticking in my craw are what to do with feats, and how to go about picking my extracts and discoveries on the alchemist side.

Since I want it to complement my Wizard side, I was thinking of using the Mindchemist archetype for the cognatogen, but beyond that, I'm stumped. I would like to focus on the mutagen and extract parts of alchemist over the bomb throwing aspect, if at all possible. Any help from the playground, I would greatly appreciate.

[deuxhero]

Neither is all that good a build because you only have one set of actions and more casting doesn't do much more than 1 casting class, plus you have problems wearing armor.

Why not Summoner//Urban Trophy Hunter Ranger (Switch hitter)? You make a respectable flanking ally for your Eidolon, but you are a damn accurate Raidou Kuzunoha, and that is awesome!


Though seriously the best PF only Gestalt build I can think of is likely half Synthesist Summoner, as it rectifies your single set of ability scores and grants lots of passive abilities.

[Bhaakon]

Vivisectionist-Beastmorph Alchemist//Invulnerable rager barbarian
-Full sneak attack progression
-good DR
-access to some of the best self-buffs in the game, which--if your DM is generous--you can still use while raging.
-mutagen and rage stack, and they both stack with enhancement bonuses from spells and items. So, yeah, more strength than you can shake a telescoping 10' pole at.
-Pounce at level 10 (either from mutagen or rage power)
-if you want extra cheese whiz on top, you can have 4 primary natural attacks at level 2 (claw/claw/bite from feral mutagen, and gore via lesser fiend totem)


Zen Archer monk//spellbreaker inquisitor
-SAD, using Wis for hit bonus, AC, initiative, spell progression, and ki pool. Maybe not as SAD as a one-attribute full caster, but about as single attribute dependent as a weapon-based character gets.
-Flurry gives you a huge number of bow attacks at full BAB without the nasty feat tax
-judgement, bane, and ki arrows boost damage significantly, so each shot actually hurts (always a problem with archer builds)
-utility abilities out the wazoo (if you like that sort of thing)
-Domain access gives you lots of nice bonuses (I'd suggest one of the animal domains for the always-useful animal companion)
-Between the monk's save progression, [improved] evasion, and the spellbreaker bonuses, you're going to be shrugging off most every save-able spell thrown at you.

[GreenZ]

Maybe Alchemist + Arcane Bomber (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/wizard/archetypes/paizo---wizard-archetypes/arcane-bomber)?

Not only do you get Spells + Extracts (As well as being able to go into Mindchemist) but ALL your levels from both Alchemist and Wizard add together for bomb damage... meaning every level adds +1d6 to your bomb damage for a maximum of 20d6 damage bombs at 20th level! :smalleek:

It would be more Bomb>Casting than you said you wanted... but...

[stack]

Synthesist/paladin. Save = yes.

Regular summoner/any CHA based caster. The action economy is your friend.

[CTrees]

I'd be really tempted to go Summoner20//Paladin2/Oracle(Nature)18 with Boon Companion, just for that lovely SAD, full Eidolon, full Animal Companion, and 9/9 casting. Well, as a starting point, anyway. Also would be very tempted to have my dual pets pull me along in a chariot. You know, style points (fits with the Cha focus, haha)

[ericgrau]

Neither is all that good a build because you only have one set of actions and more casting doesn't do much more than 1 casting class, plus you have problems wearing armor.
Knowing more spells is never a bad thing on spontaneous casters. Especially since pathfinder lets them use quicken. You will have more spells than you can possibly cast in combat, but then you shunt all the lower level ones to buffs and quicken to cast twice a round, every round. When quickening pick low level spells that are good even at high levels, like bless or web. Example buffs you can keep up 24 hours and forget about them include greater magic weapon, magic vestment, false life, mage armor, shield other and imbue spell with spell ability+shield other. A lesser rod of extend spell might be helpful with the buffs. The massive damage redistribution combos well with empowered false life and mass cures rather than single target cures, or channel energy + selective channeling.

The other method is, yes, to use only one class in a gestalt for offense and the other for passive bonuses. Passive examples include paladin 2 for cha to saves and monk for good saves, touch AC and high movement speed. You could also take any of the typical dip classes like fighter 2 for feats, barbarian 1 for rage, ranger 1 for favored enemy, etc.

[deuxhero]

I'd be really tempted to go Summoner20//Paladin2/Oracle(Nature)18 with Boon Companion, just for that lovely SAD, full Eidolon, full Animal Companion, and 9/9 casting. Well, as a starting point, anyway. Also would be very tempted to have my dual pets pull me along in a chariot. You know, style points (fits with the Cha focus, haha)

How does the second half stack anyways? Multiple source of an animal companion stack in PF, so does the second half get the Paladin boosts to an AC (celestial template ect)?

[CTrees]

How does the second half stack anyways? Multiple source of an animal companion stack in PF, so does the second half get the Paladin boosts to an AC (celestial template ect)?

Thats not enough paladin to boost the oracle's companion (they dont have the class feature yet). Boon companion feels a little wasted-it only bumps the animal companion two levels, vs. 4. That'd be why I said starting point, at any rate.

Hrm, maybe summoner20//cavalier4/sacred servant paladin 16, with Horse Master? Full eidolon, full animal companion, summoner casting, full BAB, d10 HD, and Greater Planar Ally and Gate as a SLAs? Laugh at the puny action economy!

[grarrrg]

Step 1: Do this (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=12905896&postcount=4).
Step 2: Laugh maniacally.
Step 3: ????


Seriously though, it's a solid Gestalt build (doesn't get fully online until later though).
To tweak it to be more "friendly" drop Agent of the Grave and take 'normal' Paladin, and/or replace Oracle with Sorcerer, and/or just do Synthesist 20//Paladin 20

Other Ideas:

For crazy fun, easy to do we have:
The Sneak Monk!
Flowing Monk (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/monk/archetypes/paizo---monk-archetypes/flowing-monk)//Rogue/Ninja
AoO's you make render the target Flat Footed until the end of your NEXT turn.
Focus on Tripping.
Greater Trip makes a Successful Trip also cause the victim to provoke an AoO.
Vicious Stomp causes the victim to provoke an AoO if they fall Prone next to you.

Flurry > Replace the 1st attack with a Trip, if successful, you get 2 AoO's, if either AoO is successful (and if they fail the Will Save), then they are now Prone (-4AC) and Flat-Footed (SNEAK!), finish Flurry with curb-stomping.
If Trip was not successful, replace next attack with a Trip.
Repeat as necessary.

Lore Warden (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/fighter/archetypes/paizo---fighter-archetypes/lore-warden) Fighter on either side (or a little of both) for Feats/Bab. Lore Warden also gets Combat Expertise as a Bonus Feat at level 2, which you'll need for the Trip feats.



For extremely abusive, get hit by a flying rulebook "fun", we have:*
The One.
Man.
Party.

Summoner 20 // Cavalier 4/Ranger 16
Summoner is any Archetype, but NOT Synthesist.
Cavalier is fine Normal, Emissary (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/cavalier/archetypes/paizo---cavalier-archetypes/emissary), or Gendarme (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/cavalier/archetypes/paizo---cavalier-archetypes/gendarme).
Ranger must be Falconer (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/ranger/archetypes/paizo---ranger-archetypes/falconer), can add on Trapper (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/ranger/archetypes/paizo---ranger-archetypes/trapper) or Skirmisher (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/ranger/archetypes/paizo---ranger-archetypes/skirmisher) if Wis/Spellcasting is not wanted.
Notable feats: Boon Companion (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/boon-companion) for the Ranger's Falcon, Horse Master (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/horse-master-combat) for the Cavalier's Mount, Skill Focus (any Knowledge), and Eldritch Heritage (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/eldritch-heritage) to grab the Arcane (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/sorcerer/bloodlines/bloodlines-from-paizo/arcane-bloodline)>Arcane Bond ability.

You'll have 20 Bab, 20d10HD, 5.6 Skills per level (avg), Caster level 20 Summoner Spells.
You will have a level 20 Falcon Animal Companion, level 20 Horse/Camel, level 20/18 Familiar (Creature-type optional), and a level 20 Eidolon.

*grarrrgco not responsible for any head/body wounds suffered due to flying reading material, brought on as a result of even suggesting this jokingly to one's DM.

[avr]

If there's anything that would get mileage out of the Int boost that your alchemist side would give, it's a witch, specifically a white-haired witch. Play a dwarf who really, really likes his beard.

[Corlindale]

I would go with the Mindchemist/Wizard. You'll be the king of knowledge checks, and you can wreak some real havoc with save or die spells thanks to the boosted DC from Cognatogen.
You could stack another archetype on top of Mindchemist if you want - I'm partial to Psychonaut myself. Eventually it lets you buff up your entire party with Moment of Prescience, which is all kinds of awesome. And you can afford the loss in bomb damage since spells will be your main offense anyway.

I think the build can work perfectly well. It's true that you only have 1 set of actions, but since most extracts are used for pre-buffing before combat it's not a huge issue. Spells are going to be more potent than bombs most of the time, but they can be a nice option to fall back on (and they save you from having to prepare blasting spells). Also a good option against high-SR foes.

Extract-wise you want to focus on the unique Alchemist powers that can be found here (and the ones you want to make Infusions of - like Shield, or polymorph spells) - no reason to have too much overlap with your wizard spells.

Since you have spells as a main means of offense it means you won't need to invest heavily in bomb or melee-oriented discoveries. I'd grab infusion since you'll need less extracts for yourself being a full-caster, and maybe some of the cool utility-style discoveries that are normally hard to afford. Get combine extracts later on to help you with action-economy.