[DM]: Letting players buy magical items?

[killem2]

After this next session I am sure the players will have the appropriate wealth maybe even a level higher than normal.

How do you let them buy magic items? Do you? How do you limit it, if you do limit it?

Is the DMG and Magical Item Comp a Sears catalog for your players?

[Roguenewb]

If you let them use the books as Sears, you will run into problems. Magic Items Ate My D&D and all that. I (as a longtime DM), usually set max caster levels for the city for each book. For example: a medium size city (say, 100,000 inhabitants), might have a maximum DMG caster level of 10, a complete series CL of 9, a races series CL of 8, and an-anything else caster level of 6. If the caster level to create an item is higher than that, it can't be bought. It may be possible to commision the project from high level wizards (with something special in trade), but it can't just be grabbed off the shelf.

[Anxe]

My campaign is super high magic. There's even a floating city where magicians can go to magic school. Magic items are readily accessible, but not all of them are. Essentially if there is something expensive, then I tell them its not available. The magic shop owner will offer to make the item for them, but for expensive items that can take months of game time.

So... That's how I control it. My players are at 14th level now, so they should be able to get any item they want is how I feel.

[killem2]

My campaign is super high magic. There's even a floating city where magicians can go to magic school. Magic items are readily accessible, but not all of them are. Essentially if there is something expensive, then I tell them its not available. The magic shop owner will offer to make the item for them, but for expensive items that can take months of game time.

So... That's how I control it. My players are at 14th level now, so they should be able to get any item they want is how I feel.

very clever, There is a similar city in my area as well. multiple academies, lots of magic in that area.

[qwertyu63]

When making cities, I give each a "Max value" in gp. Anything costing that value or less they can just buy there. Anything over it, they'd have to order. Bigger cities get higher values.

EDIT: Ignore me... I was unaware this was already in the DMG. (I really should read that book one of these days.)

[QuidEst]

very clever, There is a similar city in my area as well. multiple academies, lots of magic in that area.

Well, I should think that most magic items would be available, but try to consider how likely it is for something to be for sale. Certain shady items might need black market connections to get a hold of, while others might be common items that people purchase for protection. More specific items (a wand of a particular spell, unusual potions, etc.) might require traveling to another city.

If I were running such a high-magic campaign, though, I would throw in a bit of a joke- there are no Rings of Feather Fall. (Or something similarly trivial.) Every magic item seller they visit will mention it up front- "We have just about everything here! Unless you're looking for a Ring of Feather Fall. You'll have to try across town for that." Players attempting to craft it automatically fail.

[Cicciograna]

When making cities, I give each a "Max value" in gp. Anything costing that value or less they can just buy there. Anything over it, they'd have to order. Bigger cities get higher values.

Uh...actually it already works this way. DMG page 137.

[Kol Korran]

Before the campaign i try to think of how common magic items might be. I take a look at common items and try to figure out how common they might be.

as some mentioned already, i use the "top GP value" for about 5 sizes of settlements:
- small in the out back
- a somewhat bigger but unimportant vbig village/ small city
- a decent sized city (my reference point)
- a major city
- metropolis (i usually have 1-3 of these in the whole setting

if the players wish they can easily know the settlements gold values by a simple "know local" check.

the "top gold value" is divided to 2:
- what is available to buy at any time (what's in stock)
- above that (about twice): what can be ordered to be crafted. note, if you're keen about this, you may require a quest and/or special payment and such, though i usually let the players go without the hassle.

i inform my players in advance to prepare a list of magic items they might want. this is a REAL time saver when they come to make their purchases, instead of them starting to ruffle through books and all. it also gives you the opportunity to look for any item that might be too problematic or unbalanced. (and to try and work with a player the price of a custom magic item if they want one).

[Pilo]

You can limit what your PCs can build by rolling a few times on the random magic item table.

No to 2 item in a small village (probably family legacy).
2 to 5 items in a small town.
5 to 10 in a small city.
50 or so in a big city (But maybe not all easy to find).

[killem2]

How do you feel about, char level + 2 = to caster level of item available, every level that exceeds this adds on time to make it.

[Kol Korran]

How do you feel about, char level + 2 = to caster level of item available, every level that exceeds this adds on time to make it.
hmmmm... sounds like a good rule of thumb to start by, i assume all your characters level the same?

as to time, just use the item crafting times (1 day per 1000 gp worth). you need to decide if multiple crafters are available, andif they have the needed feats, or just handwave it.

note though that price and CL do not always go hand in hand... but usually the party's resources should limit them anyway.

[Malachei]

After this next session I am sure the players will have the appropriate wealth maybe even a level higher than normal.

How do you let them buy magic items? Do you? How do you limit it, if you do limit it?

Is the DMG and Magical Item Comp a Sears catalog for your players?

In my setting, there are no magic shops. Magic items are mostly gained as treasure, and occasionally, NPCs might be willing to sell a few on a case-by-case basis.

[Answerer]

One way or another, the PCs should get the items they want. The game is balanced (in theory) around them having a certain amount of wealth, but if X amount of money is shafted into Y useless items, despite the nominal values of those items, they are playing with less than the amount that they are supposed to be.

Worse, this exacerbates the already serious problems with the game's balance as it stands: low-tier classes need items, and worse need specific items, while high-tier classes can get around losing most items. High-tier classes also depend on only one or two abilities; low-tier classes tend to depend on three or more – which makes getting things like appropriate stat boosters that much more important.

It may not be appropriate for your campaign to have literal stores where they can buy whatever they please. And there are certainly some items that are undervalued and should not be obtainable at all, regardless of what WBL says (Candle of Invocation, I am looking at you).

But if this is the case, then you should talk to your PCs, find out what items they are looking for, and start including those items in the loot you dole out. I usually ask my PCs to come up with "Wish Lists" for this purpose. Obviously, you shouldn't feel constrained to only give them those items or to give them every item, but sometimes items are really key and the players should have a reasonable expectation of getting key items in a timely fashion.

[Malachei]

Well, WBL is balanced against what, EL? EL is based on what, the CR system? Wait, there's a current thread here on CR, aptly called CR is a lie. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=239375) :)

Of course, I try to give the characters items they can work with, and which fit the plans they have for their characters.

[Answerer]

There's a reason that I said "in theory".

But unless you know the game, it's mechanics, and it's failings very well, messing with WBL is a good way to make things even worse. WBL is disproportionately necessary to the weaker classes, so reducing it just makes them even worse.

[Malachei]

Hm. Your nick is "Answerer", I begin to understand there might be a double meaning... :)

I'm not reducing it. And I know the game.

[Answerer]

If players are getting items not of their own choice, then unless you know their characters' needs better than they do, they are getting less value for the same nominal WBL, so yes, you are, unless they're also gaining treasure faster than WBL would say to compensate (and even then, it depends).

And I have to admit, I'm skeptical of your claim about knowing the game, at least to the degree necessary to accomplish this well by my standards. I'm quite sure I could not do it.

[Malachei]

No player has ever complained.


I'm skeptical of your claim about knowing the game

Sometimes it helps to have a little more faith.

[ericgrau]

As long as you give players a little extra to compensate random treasure should be fine. Though what do they do with the money from the items they sell? Or if they can't sell what do they do with the items they can't use at all?

There was a similar thread on this recently. IMO let NPCs craft expensive items, which takes a few days, have cheap items available in abundance and have a limited number of in between items available: pre-made list, random % chance for each, or whatever. In all cases they should be easier to get in bigger cities.

[Malachei]

As long as you give players a little extra to compensate random treasure should be fine

Yes, and I do. Moreover, magic items are almost never determined randomly as part of treasure.

Also, I'd say the DMG does not assume you spend your adventuring career in a big city or close by. For instance, one of my campaigns in set in the lands of the far north, where most settlements are really small. Given the gp limits of small communities, this does not work beyond the low levels. I dislike the idea of mid-level characters teleporting to go shopping, if there's no other in-game reason to leave the region the campaign is focused on.


in very large cities, some shops might specialize in magic items ... Magic items might even be available in normal shops occasionally ... (emphasis mine)

The use of the word "might" indicates that this is subject to DM's judgment.

My games are pretty high-powered, but spending money, IMO, was never a problem and can be done for a variety of projects:

Craft items yourself
Pay others to craft items for you
Buy land, buildings or other important assets
etc.

[Solaris]

In my setting, there are no magic shops. Magic items are mostly gained as treasure, and occasionally, NPCs might be willing to sell a few on a case-by-case basis.

Same. I do, however, make an effort at getting items that the players want into the game. The biggest problem I've found is getting players to make their wish-lists.

[bloodtide]

After this next session I am sure the players will have the appropriate wealth maybe even a level higher than normal.

How do you let them buy magic items? Do you? How do you limit it, if you do limit it?

Is the DMG and Magical Item Comp a Sears catalog for your players?

It depends a lot where the characters go. There are only a few magic marts. For the most part, available items will vary by area, location, social factors, race, and the local history. For example a dwarven magic shop in a dwarven twon will have plenty of armor and weapons and dwarf flavored items like tools or boots, but you won't find magical robes or wands there. In general protective and defensive items are more common then offencive and harmful ones. So it's easy to find a ring of protection, but rings of the ram are rare. A shop does not have a rack of wands of fireballs for sale.

The laws of an area have an effect on the magic items. You won't find evil or necromantic items in a good place. And most civilized places don't sell mind control or illusion magic over the counter. Even when you can buy combat items, the local law will want to know why. They don't sell girdles of giant strength to any old thug that walks in the door. You will often need to prove to the law that your not a homicidal maniac or worse. And in a lot of places the law won't let 'rouge adventures' buy dangerous items.

Temples and such do sell magic items, but generally only to the faithful. They do sell 'common' stuff, like potions of healing to (almost) anyone. But anything else you must be of the faith and of good standing in the faith.

There is always a black market for magic items, but of course, it's full of fakes and cursed items and back stabbing and such......even more so for 'random adventures with no political connections'.

Very often, if a player wants a special item, they can have it made for them or bought for them by a citizen....for a price...often an adventure.

A lot of magic shops just have trinkets, like a knife that warms up slightly to cut cheese or butter.

[Sutremaine]

A lot of magic shops just have trinkets, like a knife that warms up slightly to cut cheese or butter.
Trap item -- if you needed a chunk of butter then the knife is unecessary, and if you needed something to spread on your toast the knife will only soften the surface of the hunk of hard butter.

You want the Butter Dish of Warming instead.

[herrhauptmann]

Trap item -- if you needed a chunk of butter then the knife is unecessary, and if you needed something to spread on your toast the knife will only soften the surface of the hunk of hard butter.

You want the Butter Dish of Warming instead.

Well that depends on how thick a chunk of butter you remove.
I got used to bread taht wouldn't hold up, so got in the habit of very thin slices of butter.
Really, what you need is the bread dish of warming.
Keeps your bread warm like it just came out of the oven.

Familiar Treats.
Little jar of chocolatey treats for your familiar. Perfect for novice wizards still training their familiars. (Treat them like Scooby Snax)
Never runs out.
Actually was going to give it to a wizard of mine who had a tendency to overfeed his rat familiar. Also played his familiar in chess and go. (Rest of the party wasn't smart enough for a good game)
Then the DM said the fluff item I wanted would cost about 8000gp. :smallfrown: Even though it had absolutely no mechanical effect on the game. It's not like people ever worry about feeding their hummingbirds. And rats should be even easier to feed.