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Darth Stabber
2012-04-13, 12:08 PM
My mostly evil party has had the attention of a paladin of pelor(Reverend Forten) for most of the campaign. The lawful authority of the city that the party is based out of has protected them for some time (in fact they are good friends of the lord mayor). However they have recently trekked half way across the continent, and rev. Forten has decided now is the time to strike. He has 2 of his friends (paladins of st. Cuthbert and Heironeous) poised to strike them when they leave forest they are currently in. The encounter will likely be on open plains. How should I run this.

Established facts:
Reverend Forten is a lvl11 paladin (the other two are unestablished)
Forten's mount is a celestial hippogriff (the other two are unestablished)
They are acting outside their normal jurisdiction, so any aditional bodies would only be NPC warrior.
The party includes:
Human Unarmed Swordsage8/shadowsun ninja2 (the tank, damage with the BC)
High elf sorceress 10 (focused on save or die effects with some BC)
Elan psion(shaper)5/psion uncarnate5 (focused on BC, usually starts fights with an overchanneled astral construct)
Halfling rogue5/assassin5 (TWF rapier + dagger, focused on damage, usually focuses on flanking with either the ss or one of the summons/minions)
Tibbit Dreadnecromancer 10 (minionmancer, but is without her army at the moment, but still has her familiar(quasit), slay mate(metamagic reducing non-combatant), skeletal wolf (mount) and a skeletal triceratops)

This is one of the most important encounters they have yet to face (bringing a major sideplot to it's conclusion), and I want it to be EPIC (not the lvl21+ kind). Any one have any thoughts on how to make this epic. (Pc death doesn't bother me, just not a TPK).

Vladislav
2012-04-13, 12:22 PM
I understand the enemies are Paladins in title, but does their actual class have to be Paladin as well? Crusader or Cleric are much more interesting to fight, and offer more possibilities - and can still be fluffed as a holy-avenger-of-the-faith type. Maybe 1 Paladin, 1 Crusader, 1 Cleric? Maybe even make one of them a Ruby Knight Vindicator, if you can houserule away the requirement to worship Wee Jass.

Yorrin
2012-04-13, 12:29 PM
I understand the enemies are Paladins in title, but does their actual class have to be Paladin as well? Crusader or Cleric are much more interesting to fight, and offer more possibilities - and can still be fluffed as a holy-avenger-of-the-faith type. Maybe 1 Paladin, 1 Crusader, 1 Cleric? Maybe even make one of them a Ruby Knight Vindicator, if you can houserule away the requirement to worship Wee Jass.

This.

Unless you want a sketchy amount of optimization 3 lvl11 Paladins and a bunch of mooks wont be able to take out a party of lvl10PCs that appear to at least know what they're doing. Especially not in an open field. But a Intelligently played Crusader, Cleric, and Pali with mooks that have the right feat choices might be able to get somewhere.

Lapak
2012-04-13, 12:46 PM
This.

Unless you want a sketchy amount of optimization 3 lvl11 Paladins and a bunch of mooks wont be able to take out a party of lvl10PCs that appear to at least know what they're doing. Especially not in an open field. But a Intelligently played Crusader, Cleric, and Pali with mooks that have the right feat choices might be able to get somewhere.Bolded for emphasis. In fact, 3 level 11 anythings will have a rough time against a five-member level 10 party. If you want them to feel like they're sweating in this encounter, you'll want to bump the enemy level a bit or add more bodies unless both are already clearly established.

DoctorGlock
2012-04-13, 01:18 PM
I hear prestige paladin is very good for this.

Cleric 4/Crusader 1/Prestige Paladin 3/Ruby Knight 3 or something similar seems like it could be fun and tactically interesting. Importantly it gets all the iconic paladin stuff. He also smites like no tomorrow with cleric spells (4th, eh) and maneuvers. Not high op, but more interesting than a paladin

Edit: Ok, just saw the level. Ouch, you are going to want to bump the head paladin up to 15th and his flunkies up to 13th

Cleric 4/crusader 1/Prestige Paladin 3/Ruby Knight 7. Gives him 6th level spells and can threaten the party. He can use paladin spells and let him use battle blessing on those (RAW debate ensues in 3...2...1..). He gets 6th level maneuvers and divine impetus, so let him start messing with the action economy, he'll need it.

Darth Stabber
2012-04-13, 02:38 PM
Forten has several paladin class features established (mount and lay on hands primarily), and should probably be lvl 12, but the other two are wide open to lookalikes. Deity restrictive PRCs are off the table, unless they are infact worshippers of that deity. Weejas's church on the continent is very evil leaning (though still LN), which takes RKV off the table (there is an order of jasite paladins but they are a very small "heretical" sect).

The big thing is that they will be facing off against holy heavy cavalry. So other than forten the rest can be "paladins", so long as they aren't in a PRC that they don't meet the prerequisites for (and I enforce deity prereqs on the players, so I also enforce them on myself). Also forgotten realms material is also off the table, except for underdark (I don't use books that the players aren't allowed to use).

docnessuno
2012-04-13, 02:42 PM
Is Forten's race established?

Darth Stabber
2012-04-13, 02:57 PM
Is Forten's race established?

Human, though Azurin and Karsite are acceptable (they haven't actually seen him cast a spell, just the other features, nor have they seen his hair, since he always wears a helmet).

jguy
2012-04-13, 03:27 PM
RKV says that it can be modified to be used with other gods. Heck, even the example NPC for the book is actually a follower of St. Cuthburt, not weejas.

deuxhero
2012-04-13, 03:40 PM
1: Core Pelor or Burning Hate Pelor?
2: Turning focused Cleric (Or Paladin with some "Focused Turning" feat to make up for the -3 deficiency) will shut down the DN's minions and seems pretty reasonable from the NPCs point of view (They have a necromancer, bring the guy who turns undead well) and fits Pelor. The Wolf is a guaranteed KO (unless it is advanced) and Slaymate, possibly the familiar if it is undead and some boosting would take down the dinosaur.

docnessuno
2012-04-13, 03:42 PM
Done with 32 PB

Forten:
Human Saint (BoED) Paladin of Pelor 11 (CR 13)
Sub levels: Planar paladin 6th
Str: 16+2+2 Dex: 12 Con: 14+2+2 Int: 10 Wis: 14+2 Cha: 12+4
HP: 109 - Fort: 16 - Ref: 9 - Will: 11 - AC: 27 (To: 15 - FF: 26)
Skills: Ride +20, Diplomacy +13, Knowledge (religion) +11, Sense motive +11
Feats: Mounted combat, Sprited charge, Ride-by-attack, Battle blessing (CC), Power attack
Class features: As paladin 11 minus remove disease 1/week, plus celestial template on mount.
Template goodies:
Widsom to AC (insight, already factored)
+2 DC for (mag) (sup) (ex) abilities
+1d6 holy damage VS evil creatures, becomes 1d8 vs evil undead or outsiders
Cha based spell like: At will guidance, resistence, virtue, bless (CL = HD)
Damage reduction: 5/evil
Fast healing: 5
Immunity to acid, cold, electricity and pietrification
Low light vision and 60ft darkvision
As a free action double strenght magic circle against evila plus lesser globe of invulnerability (CL = HD)
Resistance to fire 10 and +4 racial to saves against poison
Constant Tongues (CL = 14)

Items (NPC WBL 35000):
Amulet of health +2 (4000)
Gloves of ogre power (4000)
Cloak of resistance +2 (4000)
Ring of protection +1 (2000)
+1 Full plate (2600)
+1 animated large iron shield (9100)
+1 Sudden Stunning (DMG2) Two handed sword (4300)
+1 Lance (2300)
Magic military saddle (+5 competence riding) (2500)

Spells (2/2/1 - CL 5):
1 - Divine sacrifice (SpC) x1
1 - Rhino rush (SpC) x1
2 - Knight's move (SpC) x1
2 - Resist energy x1
3 - Find the gap (SpC) x1

Edit: I forgot the +2 stat from levelup, added them in now

Averis Vol
2012-04-13, 04:53 PM
i'd suggest making one an archer to kinda switch it up a bit, made in a fashion mimicking docnessuno:

Lord kalvin Telifortes:
Wood Elf Paladin of Heironeus 8/ ranger 2 (CR 11)
Racial sub levels:
level 1: elf paladin RoTW
Str 16+2 Dex 16+2 Con 12+2 Wis 12 Int 10 Cha 14+2
HP: 93 Fort: 13 Ref: 7 Will:12 AC 19 (To: 14 FF: 15)
Skills: ride +13, Intimidate +17, Knowledge nature +2, spot+9, listen +9, survival +7
Feats: mounted combat, Mounted Archery, Rapid shot, Precise shot
Special abilities: as an 8th level paladin, favored enemy (human)
Special qualities: low light vision

Equipment:

+1 composite longbow (str+4) (2750 gp)
Amulet of health +2 (4000 gp)
Gloves of ogres strength (4000 gp)
cloak of charisma +2 (4000 gp)
+1 chainshirt (1250)

Just have this guy run around the field laying down a well placed ranged Smite every now and then (if you can use flaws get extra smiting, if not oh well) and harass the lighter armored enemies.

P.S. geez NPC starter gold sucks :smallannoyed:

EDIT: forgot he was originally Aasimar, stuffs deleted.

Darth Stabber
2012-04-13, 05:13 PM
Done with 32 PB

Forten:
Human Saint (BoED) Paladin of Pelor 11 (CR 13)
Sub levels: Planar paladin 6th
Str: 16+2 Dex: 12 Con: 14+2+2 Int: 10 Wis: 14+2 Cha: 12+4
HP: 109 - Fort: 16 - Ref: 9 - Will: 11 - AC: 27 (To: 15 - FF: 26)
Skills: Ride +20, Diplomacy +13, Knowledge (religion) +11, Sense motive +11
Feats: Mounted combat, Sprited charge, Ride-by-attack, Battle blessing (CC), Power attack
Class features: As paladin 11 minus remove disease 1/week, plus celestial template on mount.
Template goodies:
Widsom to AC (insight, already factored)
+2 DC for (mag) (sup) (ex) abilities
+1d6 holy damage VS evil creatures, becomes 1d8 vs evil undead or outsiders
Cha based spell like: At will guidance, resistence, virtue, bless (CL = HD)
Damage reduction: 5/evil
Fast healing: 5
Immunity to acid, cold, electricity and pietrification
Low light vision and 60ft darkvision
As a free action double strenght magic circle against evila plus lesser globe of invulnerability (CL = HD)
Resistance to fire 10 and +4 racial to saves against poison
Constant Tongues (CL = 14)

Items (NPC WBL 35000):
Amulet of health +2 (4000)
Gloves of ogre power (4000)
Cloak of resistance +2 (4000)
Ring of protection +1 (2000)
+1 Full plate (2600)
+1 animated large iron shield (9100)
+1 Sudden Stunning (DMG2) Two handed sword (4300)
+1 Lance (2300)
Magic military saddle (+5 competence riding) (2500)

Spells (2/2/1 - CL 5):
1 - Divine sacrifice (SpC) x1
1 - Rhino rush (SpC) x1
2 - Knight's move (SpC) x1
2 - Resist energy x1
3 - Find the gap (SpC) x1
Excellent, my swap a couple things here and there (namely switching sudden stunning to the lance). But overall scary enough to give them some serious pause.

i'd suggest making one an archer to kinda switch it up a bit, made in a fashion mimicking docnessuno:

Lord kalvin Telifortes:
Wood Elf Paladin of Heironeus 8/ ranger 2 (CR 11)
Racial sub levels:
level 1: elf paladin RoTW
Str 16+2 Dex 16+2 Con 12+2 Wis 12 Int 10 Cha 14+2
HP: 93 Fort: 13 Ref: 7 Will:12 AC 19 (To: 14 FF: 15)
Skills: ride +13, Intimidate +17, Knowledge nature +2, spot+9, listen +9, survival +7
Feats: mounted combat, Mounted Archery, Rapid shot, Precise shot
Special abilities: as an 8th level paladin, daylight 1/day favored enemy (human)
Special qualities: darkvision 60, resistance 5 electricity/fire/acid/cold

Equipment:

+1 composite longbow (str+4) (2750 gp)
Amulet of health +2 (4000 gp)
Gloves of ogres strength (4000 gp)
cloak of charisma +2 (4000 gp)
+1 chainshirt (1250)

Just have this guy run around the field laying down a well placed ranged Smite every now and then (if you can use flaws get extra smiting, if not oh well) and harass the lighter armored enemies.

P.S. geez NPC starter gold sucks :smallannoyed:

May up his gold enough to give him a decent lance or spear to use alongside the bow, just to lull them into a false sense of security thinking they're all meleers, until he breaks off after the first charge and starts providing fire support.

docnessuno
2012-04-13, 05:16 PM
[Name]:
Human Cloistered cleric of St. Cuthbert (UA) 7 / Sacred exorcist (CD) 4
Str: 12 Dex: 14 Con: 14 Int: 12 Wis: 16+2+2 Cha: 12
HP: 67 - Fort: 8 - Ref: 5 - Will: 13 - AC: 21 (To: 12 - FF: 19)
Skills: Concentration +16, Knowledge (each one except local and architecture) +11, spellcraft +15, Heal +9
Feats: Protection devotion (CC), Quicken spell, Extra turning x3, Divine metamagic (CD)
Domains: Knowledge, Strenght (traded Protection for devotion)

Items (NPC WBL 21000):
Periapt of wisdom +2 (4000)
+1 mithril hand shield (RoS) (2100)
+1 Breatplate (1300)
+1 mace (2300)
Ring of spell-battle (12.000)

Spells:
1: Sanctuary x2
1: Shield of faith x2
1: Lesser Vigor x2
1D: Enlarge person x1
2: Hold person x3
2: Divine Insight x2
2D: Detect thoughts x1
3: Magic Vestment x3
3: Dispel magic x2
3D: Magic Vestment x1
4: Divine power x1
4: Dismissal x1
4: Recitation (SpC) x1
4: Freedom of movement x1
4D: Spell immunity
5: Slay living x1
5: Break enchantment x1
5: Righteous wrath of the faithful (SC) x1
5D: True seeing x1
6: Heal x1
6D: Stoneskin x1

Flickerdart
2012-04-13, 05:18 PM
Paladin levels are not the only way to get Paladin class features. Check out the Lists (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19871954/Lists_of_Stuff) to see where to pick up the abilities he's demonstrated.

Randomguy
2012-04-13, 05:20 PM
I suggest making one of them a sorcadin, for versatility. The standard sorcadin build is Paladin 2/Sorcerer4/Spellsword 1/Abjurant Champion 5/Sacred exorcist XX.
Also, give at least one of them the divine counterspell class feature, for a bit of defense against casters. This'll work best for a cleric prestige paladin, who can pick up the inquisition domain for another +4 to the dispel check.
The serenity acf (or is it a feat?) can key all paladin abilities off of wisdom, greatly reducing MAD. Give this to everyone but the sorcadin.
Battle blessing is a great feat for anyone that hasn't multiclassed out before getting paladin spellcasting.
Deafening clang is a decent looking buff to cast before hand.
Rhino's rush is a very good spell for any charger to cast. (At least one of your paladins should have a charger build, I think)

Find a way to negate sneak attack. The best spells that do this, like elemental body, are too high level, but you can find a way to get concealment. (You can't sneak attack a creature with concealment, right?). If it's an ambush, the sorcadin can prebuff them all with blur.

For about 4.5k, you could pay a psion to fill a bottle with 16 castings of quintessence. Throw this as a splash weapon at the enemy psion to hinder his manifesting. Alternatively, if you rule that'll make about half the stuff evaporate, then just have one of the paladins cover his sword with the stuff and try and get the psion in melee range.
Psychic turmoil from the sorcadin, possibly from a scroll, would also help limit the psion.

Hide from undead would be a good prebuff, so they could just ignore the skeletal minions.

A think a celestial dire wolf would make a decent mount. Make his rider a tripper.

You're up against a lot of casters, so a way to force concentration checks would be great. Try the buzzing bee spell, and quicken it with a metamagic rod. Handing out tanglefoot bags to your flunkies couldn't hurt, either.

Stoneskin or another buff that grants DR of some sort, coupled with sneak attack immunity, will make the rogue a non-threat.

The paladins should all have great saving throws, so the sorceress shouldn't be too much of a threat.

docnessuno
2012-04-13, 05:30 PM
Also, give at least one of them the divine counterspell class feature, for a bit of defense against casters. This'll work best for a cleric prestige paladin, who can pick up the inquisition domain for another +4 to the dispel check.

Sorry but divine counterspell is really BAD.



Divine Counterspell - Complete Mage: You lose turn undead, which is bad. You gain the ability to counterspell using ONLY your cleric level, not your caster level.

A much better option (see my cleric build) is giving a ring of spellbattle, that can really turn the tide of a battle for a very low price.

Sadly i don't have time to post a 3rd build today, but i would suggest either some sort of gish (sorcadin could work but it a tad below it's optimal level) or a large sized (half ogre?) warrior/crusader with a spiked chain, stand still, ticket of blades and mage slayer. That would make your players think twice before doing anything and would shut down most casters completely (and with large size we are talking about 20" reach, 30" with enlarge person active)

Randomguy
2012-04-13, 06:15 PM
Sorry but divine counterspell is really BAD.

A much better option (see my cleric build) is giving a ring of spellbattle, that can really turn the tide of a battle for a very low price.


A ring of spell battle only works 1/day, and only works if you make the spellcraft check to identify (great for wizards, sorcerers and cloistered clerics, not so great for normal clerics and horrible for paladins) and it's not a counterspell, just a redirect, meaning it's very limited:

If the enemy casts a beneficial touch spell, you can only redirect if an ally is within the caster's touch reach. If the enemy casts a harmful touch spell, you can only redirect if a different enemy is within the caster's touch reach. Personal spell? Can't redirect.
It's only really useful against area affects and targeted spells.

Biffoniacus_Furiou
2012-04-13, 07:35 PM
One should definitely be some sort of inquisitor: (Cloistered) Cleric 1/ Paladin 9? Inquisition domain, (Knowledge Devotion), Wrath domain with Spontaneous Casting ACF (PH2). His Paladin Turn Undead gets traded out for Divine Counterspell (CM), and he gets Divine Defiance (FC2) which is fueled by his Cleric turning. Give him enough Kn: Arcana ranks for the +2 to Divine Counterspell, and his Inquisition domain power gets added on as well.

When an opponent casts a spell, he can activate Divine Defiance with a turn attempt (3+Cha/day) to use Divine Counterspell (1+Cha/day) as an immediate action to counter it with a Dispel check at 1d20+12 (at Paladin 9). Note that psionic powers cannot be counterspelled. I would give him a +1 Magebane (CA) weapon, and if you want him to be super-dangerous give him the Charging Smite ACF (PH2) and use it with Rhino's Rush (SC). Bonus points if he has a Wand Chamber (DS) in his weapon with a Wand of Silence, and uses that targeting either a point in space or himself to further prevent opponents from casting spells.


I would make the other a Cleric 6+/ Prestige Paladin (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/prestigiousCharacterClasses.htm#prestigePaladin) 3 (UA), and the Sun and Cold (SC) domains and possibly the Quicken Turning feat (CD), and the spontaneous domain casting ACF (PH2) for Cold. He should focus entirely on turning/destroying undead minions, dispelling summoned creatures, and probably trying to crowd control. Cast Ice Slick (Frostburn), (Rod of Extended) Sleet/Ice Storm and Heat/Chill Metal, even Wall of Ice if he's high enough level.


With that your Saint Paladin can spearhead the attack, with the Inquisitor using preventative measures and helping with the assault, and the Cleric to equalize the battlefield. I think it will be a spectacular battle.

Andorax
2012-04-16, 12:35 PM
What is the motivation behind the attack?

Do they believe that they are able to take the party down, that the righteousness of their cause will carry the day?

Do they reliaze that they're in over their heads, but are doing it because it's the right thing to do anyways, in hopes that they can take at least some of them out, or perhaps get lucky?

Is this a feint, intented to do some damage, but with an ulterior motive (place a tracable item amongst them, send a warning message, etc.)?


Each one helps motify their strategy and attitudes...and might even be handy for tailoring their abilities.

Darth Stabber
2012-04-16, 01:41 PM
The paladins believe they can win (but are unaware that the party grew in power while they've been away), and they are motivated by the parties casual disregard human life, the law, and social custom, the fact that one of them brought an uncontrolled undead creature of of incredible power into the world is just the straw that broke the camel's back.

The suggestion of sorcadin was about to be taken, until I remembered ASF (the armor isn't neccessary, but it's a nice thematic touch) so I am probably going to go with wildin, palader, paladin/wilder. All of the fun of mixing sorc and pally, while maintaining armor and an ability to compensate for lost caster levels (wild surge). It will give them an artilery piece with a little BC, which they are probably going to need.

Human educated wilder10/paladin of heironeous2
Str14 dex12 con14 int12 wis10 cha18
AC25, fort+12 ref+10 will+13 HP:70 pp:118
Powers known: energy ray, entangling ectoplasm,swarm of crystals, share pain, telekinetic thrust, dimension door, hostile empathic transfer
Skills: concentration+18, psicraft +14, intimidate +19, spot+13, ride+18, handle animal+5
Feats: psicrystal affinity, skill focus (concentration), practiced manifester, imperious command, mounted combat, quick recovery.
+1 light fortification fullplate
+1 lance
+2 heavy wooden shield
+4 cloak of charisma
+1 ring of protection

Randomguy
2012-04-16, 02:23 PM
The suggestion of sorcadin was about to be taken, until I remembered ASF (the armor isn't neccessary, but it's a nice thematic touch)

The level of spellsword in the sorcadin build lets you ignore 10% of ASF, and the 5 levels of abjurant champion mean that you can cast Greater Luminous Armour and make it give you an extra +5 to AC.

Biffoniacus_Furiou
2012-04-16, 02:45 PM
You don't need to worry about lost caster/manifester levels with Practiced Spellcaster/Manifester, the thing that's tough to make up for is the loss of spellcasting capability, i.e. access to the next higher level of spells.

The standard Sorcadin build at level 12 would be Paladin 2/ Sorcerer 4/ Spellsword 1/ Abjurant Champion 5. With that he can wear Mithral Breastplate with a Thistledown Suit for 0% ASF, or Twilight Mithral Full Plate with a Thistledown Suit for 0% ASF. His Shield spell will also provide a +9 Shield bonus, so no need to carry a shield. If you give him Arcane Preparation, he can cast Greater Luminous Armor for a +13 Armor bonus, or (Lesser Rod of Extended) Luminous Armor for a +10 Armor bonus.

He'll have to take Dismissal as his 5th level spell because the next level of the build is in Sacred Exorcist. His 4th level spells should include Polymorph, so he can use the Minor Shapeshift reserve feat (CM), and I'd also throw in Black Tentacles or Solid Fog. He should have Heart of Water (CM), Magic Circle Against Evil, and probably Stinking Cloud which combines well with Black Tentacles, or Greater Magic Weapon to make everyone's weapons +3. Magic Circle Against Evil will be cast Swift and Extended thanks to Abjurant Champion, so much for summoned minions. His 2nd level spells should absolutely include Wings of Cover (RotD), and I'd use a Dragonblood race for him such as Silverbrow Human (DM) or Spellscale (RotD) or even Dragonborn, possibly on a Wild Elf or Wood Elf. Also include Glitterdust and Wraithstrike, and either Bull's Strength or See Invisibility. For his 1st level spells, Benign Transposition, Grease, Nerveskitter, Shield, and good ol' Magic Missile would be pretty standard. Note that he doesn't need to use spells known to get sanctified spells, he just needs the ability to prepare spells and he can cast any of them.

Be sure to give him Power Attack and Arcane Strike, and a few Lesser Rods of Extend to use with Wraithstrike and other buffs. (Only spells with a standard action casting time or longer get increased when spontaneously cast with metamagic.) Arcane Preparation, Practiced Spellcaster, and Minor Shapeshift are all necessary. I'd probably include Versatile Spellcaster if he has any extra feats.

Darth Stabber
2012-04-16, 04:46 PM
Sorcadin is really nice, but I really don't need it when wilder gives me everything I want and more. With that on the table I'm probably going to go with the above listed paladin/wilder(with his deity switched to st.cuthbert), docnessuno's st. Forten, and a cleric of heironeous (possibly with a fighter dip for the extra mounted combat feats).

docnessuno
2012-04-16, 05:40 PM
I would consider using Slayer for the wilder/paladin

Something among the lines of: Wilder 4 / Paladin 2 / Slayer 6

This build would lose out a feat and 5th level powers, but no actual manifester level thanks to praticed manifester (also wilder class stuff from level 5+ is not really that useful). On the plus side it would gain 2 BAB (giving him the third iterative attack), more HPs and a favored enemy of choice with a nice +4 bonus (but restricted to psionic stuff, Psionic humanoids seems a good choice.). Also enemy sense is really nice, and aversion could prove useful against the 'debuffer' of the party.

watchwood
2012-04-16, 08:12 PM
Without touching the nuts and bolts of this, I want to point out that lawful good is not the same as lawful stupid. If they're determined about this, they'll have hired on a couple of guides/trackers to help them out. They'll also know to attack the party when they're vulnerable and using every advantage they can find.

I did something similar to an evil party I once ran - the NPC struck the party at night, leading off the attack by using a wand of silence on the area where the sentry was standing, and then covering the rest of the camp in rapid succession. They'd also fully taken advantage of their prep time to buff themselves to the max beforehand with their spells/abilities. In a stand up fight the PCs could have easily wiped the group, but using these tactics the NPCs got the drop on them and very nearly wiped them out. It made for a great final encounter.

After all, there's no reason at all that the players should have a monopoly on tactics.