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rorikdude12
2012-04-13, 05:20 PM
I have been DMing a group of people who go to my high school. Most of them are really great, and all but one is quite intrested in the game. Two are starting to become good DMs themselves. (All were introduced to tabletop rpgs by me :D)

There is one that is getting annoying. He vacations often, ad also skips sessions to watch new episodes of My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic. He often declares how silly and trivial "my little D&D thing" is compared to his MLP:FiM watching. He will often declare how bad a DM I am when I penalize him for cheating.

What should I do?

TheCountAlucard
2012-04-13, 05:22 PM
How's he cheating?

Slipperychicken
2012-04-13, 05:39 PM
What should I do?

Several Questions before I can give a real answer.

In what way is he cheating?
How do you penalize it?
How often does he skip sessions?
Is he committed to the game when he does show up?
Do the other players enjoy his company/playstyle?
Are you playing a very serious game?

Hiro Protagonest
2012-04-13, 06:08 PM
1. He does know you can watch it on YouTube if you're not at home RIGHT WHEN THE NEW EPISODE COMES OUT, right?

2. Seems like he thinks D&D is unimportant compared to a TV show that has all its episodes uploaded to YouTube by other fans. I mean sure, I'd sorta get it if it was a show that had an overall plot that lasted longer than two episodes at the best of times, but this show is episodic. Sure, there could be a Chekhov's Gun like the Grand Galloping Gala tickets, but it's unlikely. Also, YouTube.

3. He's a cheater. Cheaters are most often munchkins. Munchkins are bad.

Just kick him out if he continues this. Or just kick him out.

Jay R
2012-04-13, 06:27 PM
He will often declare how bad a DM I am when I penalize him for cheating.

What should I do?

Stop "penalizing" him for cheating. Kick him out of the game for it. D&D is a social contract, and a cheater isn't playing.

The other stuff is trivial by comparison, except as further evidence that he isn't really in the social contract of playing a continuing co-operative game.

rorikdude12
2012-04-13, 06:29 PM
Several Questions before I can give a real answer.
In what way is he cheating?
How do you penalize it?
How often does he skip sessions?
Is he committed to the game when he does show up?
Do the other players enjoy his company/playstyle?
Are you playing a very serious game?

He often lies about die rolls, so I declare the subject of the roll a failure.He tried to change his 10 Constitution to an 18, so I subtracted 8 from the original o make it 2.

He skips about every other game session.

He is not that committed when he does, and is very obnoxious and insulting toward me and the other players. He also listens do his iPod during nearly the whole session, and often blares music at us. The other players find him annoying and his only redeeming quality is when they can laugh at his colossal failures.

I am playing a rather serious game. I do leave in humor, and the players make their own. The rest of the party has been having a good time, it seems.

Hiro Protagonest
2012-04-13, 06:35 PM
Hm... this one should be kicked out immediately.

But if you want, I suggest you don't just kick him out of the game. Next time he shows up, have everyone haul him out. When he protests, say "you obviously think this is a waste of your time. And you're wasting our time when you turn up your music really loud, or have to have things repeated when you didn't pay attention, or just didn't bother to show up".

Beowulf DW
2012-04-13, 07:17 PM
Kick him. Kick him like he was a character in Street Fighter.

Oracle_Hunter
2012-04-13, 07:32 PM
I have been DMing a group of people who go to my high school. Most of them are really great, and all but one is quite intrested in the game. Two are starting to become good DMs themselves. (All were introduced to tabletop rpgs by me :D)

There is one that is getting annoying. He vacations often, ad also skips sessions to watch new episodes of My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic. He often declares how silly and trivial "my little D&D thing" is compared to his MLP:FiM watching. He will often declare how bad a DM I am when I penalize him for cheating.

What should I do?
You're the DM, and you can't stand one of the Players. Kick him before your frustration with him ruins the game for everyone.

Ideally, you should talk with him so that he knows how you feel about his attitude and perhaps you can understand why he acts the way he does. However, it sounds like you already have a bad relationship so if you don't feel like talking to him further, you can kick him from your game -- politely of course.

"I don't think this game is working out for you. I think it would be best if you dropped out of this game and maybe I can run a game in the future that would work better for you."

Hiro Protagonest
2012-04-13, 07:43 PM
Did you read the entire thread, or just the first post? He made another post detailing the problems.

KillianHawkeye
2012-04-13, 07:45 PM
So the guy misses half of your game sessions, doesn't pay attention when he is there, annoys you and the other players, disrupts the game with loud music, thinks D&D is a silly waste of time, is a cheater, and is actively derrogatory about it?

Just be upfront with him. You and the others don't want him there, and he obviously doesn't want to be there. The solution seems simple enough.

alchemyprime
2012-04-13, 07:55 PM
I'm going to start with this: As a brony, I do not appreciate you using his own broniness as a factor since that doesn't truly seem to be a factor to his aggravation. .

Now, on to the real problem.

For a brony, he sure seems to be more obsessive than he needs to be. The episodes are on YouTube within a few hours, and within a day, they're in HD. He needs to chill. We're all super excited about the wedding of Princess Cadence and Shining Armor, that's no reason to ditch a game if he's enjoying it.

But from the sound of it? He's not enjoying the game, and his own boredom is detracting from the group. And that's not cool. You just have to ask him if he's really having fun, and if he isn't , if he could either try or not come next time, and invite him to some other sort of gathering.

Also, if he's missing games, while I think it's trivial to miss them for a show, even if it is MLP, I'm used to half my players only being there one out of every three games. So maybe count your blessings there?

Oracle_Hunter
2012-04-13, 08:07 PM
Did you read the entire thread, or just the first post? He made another post detailing the problems.
No no, he was detailing his problems and what the guy has said to him. That's not necessarily the same as having a discussion in which each side says what is bothering them and perhaps reaching a compromise.

That's just good general policy, even with apparent jerks like this guy. After all, we are only getting one side of the situation here and there is a chance that the actual problems are not what they appear.

rorikdude12
2012-04-13, 09:28 PM
Yeah...

He actually says he enjoys it, but his MLP obsession is more important to him. I didn't mean that bronies are jerks, but his "bronieness" IS A FACTOR. I know 20 people that know him and think he's over the top about it. Not all bronies are bad. {{scrubbed}}

Thank you for the advice, GiTP forums. I will tell him to shape the hell up or leave.

Ashtagon
2012-04-14, 02:05 AM
Yeah...

He actually says he enjoys it, but his MLP obsession is more important to him. I didn't mean that bronies are jerks, but his "bronieness" IS A FACTOR. I know 20 people that know him and think he's over the top about it. Not all bronies are bad. {{scrubbed}}

Thank you for the advice, GiTP forums. I will tell him to shape the hell up or leave.

It's not the broniness that's the problem. It's that he chooses to do something else (anything else) rather than join in the game at the pre-arranged time and place. If you blame the broniness, you let him externalise the problem and pretend to himself that he is not the one at fault.

He could be a sports fan, and choose to watch the ball game instead of playing your game. That wouldn't make sports the problem; it'd still be his behaviour towards the group (disrespecting arranged meeting times) that is the problem.

Dandria
2012-04-14, 02:15 AM
It's not the broniness that's the problem. It's that he chooses to do something else (anything else) rather than join in the game at the pre-arranged time and place. If you blame the broniness, you let him externalise the problem and pretend to himself that he is not the one at fault.

He could be a sports fan, and choose to watch the ball game instead of playing your game. That wouldn't make sports the problem; it'd still be his behaviour towards the group (disrespecting arranged meeting times) that is the problem.

Pretty much this: if he's playing with you and yet spends most of the time talking about how he'd rather do something else, well, then the problem is his personality, not the something else. Also, he cheats. Is there a reason why you can't just kick him out?

WitchSlayer
2012-04-14, 02:19 AM
Well I mean you COULD do something reasonable.

Or the next time he aggravates you you could POWERBOMB HIM THROUGH THE TABLE.

It is an option.

endoperez
2012-04-14, 02:26 AM
All other things aside, I think he is right in being miffed about the way you punished him for cheating. His social contract (such a nice idiom) is to not cheat and enjoy the game. The GM's social contract is to make the game enjoyable for everyone. Having a CON score of 2 when the player thought a high CON score is important is harsh.

Don't punish a player for cheating like that, because it won't make his playing fun. If you have to, kick him out. If you don't want to, try to talk with him. I don't think punishing the character accomplishes much for a player like that.

NOhara24
2012-04-14, 04:25 AM
-snip-

After reading your post and thinking about it for a bit, I agree with you, to a degree. Punishing a player doesn't work, because ultimately this is only a game and there will never be any real repercussions for cheating.

Kicking a cheater however, is a very effective solution.

Man on Fire
2012-04-14, 05:20 AM
I have been DMing a group of people who go to my high school. Most of them are really great, and all but one is quite intrested in the game. Two are starting to become good DMs themselves. (All were introduced to tabletop rpgs by me :D)

There is one that is getting annoying. He vacations often, ad also skips sessions to watch new episodes of My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic. He often declares how silly and trivial "my little D&D thing" is compared to his MLP:FiM watching. He will often declare how bad a DM I am when I penalize him for cheating.

What should I do?

I would kick him in the groin and out of the game. If he doesn't care about the game and preffer watching terrible show, then it's his choice, nobody forces him to play. I'm pretty sure you can find somebody better to play with.

Bastian Weaver
2012-04-14, 07:28 AM
Yeah, what Man on Fire said.
I'd probably tell him something like "You know, it's hard for me to say, but we're trying to have a classy game here. You know, with cool people. And watching a silly show about ponies? That just isn't cool, man. It's freaking stupid. So you can't play with us. Wow, it wasn't hard at all!"

Jay R
2012-04-14, 08:10 AM
Any in-game punishment for cheating is a statement that cheating is a move within the game, with risks and rewards.

Picking a pocket is a legitrimate in-game action, with in-game risks and rewards.

Cheating is a game-breaker. I wouldn't penalize a cheater; I would make it clear that it wasn't part of the game at all. If you're cheating, you aren't playing with me; you're trying to destroy the game.

I might, perhaps, give a single warning that cheating isn't acceptable. But somebody who cheats after the first warning will cheat after the second warning, too, and I can't be bothered with that while I'm trying to run a game.

KnightDisciple
2012-04-14, 09:26 AM
I'm going to counter what Bastian Weaver and Man on Fire said slightly:

You should still politely ask him to leave (since he's getting no enjoyment from the game, and the rest of you don't enjoy him being there), but don't insult his choice of entertainment. First, because you should be the better person (he was the one calling D&D stupid and boring, right?), and second because it's unfair to judge the show like that (I know several solid folks who enjoy the show, though it has 0 real appeal to me).

Just my 2 copper.

Lycan 01
2012-04-14, 11:56 AM
Why is this guy in your group in the first place? :smallconfused:

Man on Fire
2012-04-14, 12:14 PM
I'm going to counter what Bastian Weaver and Man on Fire said slightly:

You should still politely ask him to leave (since he's getting no enjoyment from the game, and the rest of you don't enjoy him being there), but don't insult his choice of entertainment. First, because you should be the better person (he was the one calling D&D stupid and boring, right?), and second because it's unfair to judge the show like that (I know several solid folks who enjoy the show, though it has 0 real appeal to me).

Just my 2 copper.

As you said, he said first what he thinks about the hobby. I would keep my opinion about MLP for myself, but when some jackass picks up my hobbies to make a frog to his rabbit, to pick on so he can feel superior, then all gloves are off. I watched MLP and I absolutely and utterly hate it, first because this show costed me a friend and second because it's awful. He starts picking on my games and calling them silly? He will have to listen to my rant about everything that is wrong with this cartoon. And then I'll kick him out. And tell him to come back when he will watch cartoon that is actually good. Like Adventure Time.

Dienekes
2012-04-14, 12:33 PM
As you said, he said first what he thinks about the hobby. I would keep my opinion about MLP for myself, but when some jackass picks up my hobbies to make a frog to his rabbit, to pick on so he can feel superior, then all gloves are off. I watched MLP and I absolutely and utterly hate it, first because this show costed me a friend and second because it's awful. He starts picking on my games and calling them silly? He will have to listen to my rant about everything that is wrong with this cartoon. And then I'll kick him out. And tell him to come back when he will watch cartoon that is actually good. Like Adventure Time.

This is frankly horrible advice. Not kicking the guy out, that's cool. But tying the attachment that in order to have fun with you he must enjoy everything to the same extent as you. Hell, I dislike the pony show. I thought it was uninteresting, and confused cute with funny. But stipulating that they can only play with me if they switch from liking that show to another is ridiculous, and changes the blame from them being a bad player to being a fan of a tv show. If someone forces a confrontation like: play with me or watch the show, I would pick the show just to spite them for being so pigheaded about it. Hell, a close friend of mine like Titanic, and hates the Godfather. While this statement may seem insane, blasphemous, and lacking in all sense of taste that's still their opinion. Now if their Titanic obsession got in the way of them being a player in my game, the fault lies not in them being a fan in a terrible, overrated movie but in them for being a bad player. If they magically stop liking Titanic and started liking the Godfather that would not suddenly make them a better player.

Simply all it should go is: Hey listen [insert bronies name] you've made it clear that you'd rather be watching your tv show instead of being in the game. And we're trying to make a steady scheduled group here, so we talked about it and thought it would be best if we just write your character out of the campaign. Maybe we can game again sometime when we have less on our plate.

Or the powerbomb idea. That one would work as well.

moritheil
2012-04-14, 04:00 PM
Cheating is of course terrible and no one wants to play with a cheater. But it sounds to me like the OP and a few others here have confused or conflated cheating with a few things (bronyism, "munchkin" powergaming, etc.) that merely happen to be personally against their tastes.

My advice? Just go up to him and say, "Dude, you're being a jerk. Nearly everyone in the group is mad at you for how you treat their time. I think it would be best if we went our separate ways." Then just don't open the door for him if he still comes by your house.

Vitruviansquid
2012-04-14, 04:21 PM
Yeah... he's disrespecting your hobby, and that's just plain rude no matter what the context. No need to lower yourself to his level, just kick him out of the group. >_>

Man on Fire
2012-04-14, 04:58 PM
This is frankly horrible advice. Not kicking the guy out, that's cool. But tying the attachment that in order to have fun with you he must enjoy everything to the same extent as you. Hell, I dislike the pony show. I thought it was uninteresting, and confused cute with funny. But stipulating that they can only play with me if they switch from liking that show to another is ridiculous, and changes the blame from them being a bad player to being a fan of a tv show. If someone forces a confrontation like: play with me or watch the show, I would pick the show just to spite them for being so pigheaded about it. Hell, a close friend of mine like Titanic, and hates the Godfather. While this statement may seem insane, blasphemous, and lacking in all sense of taste that's still their opinion. Now if their Titanic obsession got in the way of them being a player in my game, the fault lies not in them being a fan in a terrible, overrated movie but in them for being a bad player. If they magically stop liking Titanic and started liking the Godfather that would not suddenly make them a better player.


First, that's not what I meant - I mean that if guy is treating me and my hobbies as something easy to pick on to make himself feel better, then he deserves having the same done to him. Kicking him out is irrevelant, but would make fun comedic effect.
Second, a friend of mine decided he doesn't want to be my friend anymore because I refused to start liking MLP. For me fight with pony worshipers is personal.

Vitruviansquid
2012-04-14, 05:12 PM
People can hurt you, hobbies can't.

Nursing a grudge against all bronies just because one hurt you is like holding onto a piece of burning coal in the hopes of throwing it at someone.

Love and tolerance, man. :smallsmile:

Ashtagon
2012-04-14, 05:15 PM
First, that's not what I meant - I mean that if guy is treating me and my hobbies as something easy to pick on to make himself feel better, then he deserves having the same done to him. Kicking him out is irrevelant, but would make fun comedic effect.
Second, a friend of mine decided he doesn't want to be my friend anymore because I refused to start liking MLP. For me fight with pony worshipers is personal.

By all means kick him from the group. But be the bigger person. No need to stoop to their level of denigrating other hobbies. An eye for an eye simply leaves everyone blind.

Theoboldi
2012-04-14, 05:17 PM
First, that's not what I meant - I mean that if guy is treating me and my hobbies as something easy to pick on to make himself feel better, then he deserves having the same done to him. Kicking him out is irrevelant, but would make fun comedic effect.
Second, a friend of mine decided he doesn't want to be my friend anymore because I refused to start liking MLP. For me fight with pony worshipers is personal.

Sorry Man, but if that guy was such an *******, you should hate him, and not the fans of the show. Hating a group of a people because of one person is always wrong.

rorikdude12
2012-04-14, 05:53 PM
Thanks forums. I merely gave him a link to this thread. He decided he doesn't want to play ad told me to f*** off.

I thought if he couldn't take criticism, he shouldn't come.

Draco Ignifer
2012-04-14, 06:15 PM
Honestly, I wouldn't have much fun playing with people who looked down at me as a person because of what entertainment media I enjoyed either. I think you made the right call removing him (although linking him to this thread instead of just talking to him comes out as cowardly and mean), but I'd check your attitude to see if next time this happens it's avoidable. If you make someone feel uncomfortable and unwelcome at your table, don't be surprised if they stop taking your game seriously.

I'd also strongly recommend you listen to Jay R when it comes to cheating. If you just penalize him for cheating, it becomes a game - if he gets away with it he wins, if he fails he eats a loss but can try again next time. If you catch another player cheating let him know that it is absolutely unacceptable and the next time you catch them you will no longer play with them, and then do it.

Katana_Geldar
2012-04-14, 07:33 PM
Thanks forums. I merely gave him a link to this thread. He decided he doesn't want to play ad told me to f*** off.

I thought if he couldn't take criticism, he shouldn't come.

How very mature. Makes me wonder how you'll deal with this sort of thing later on.

Man on Fire
2012-04-14, 07:44 PM
By all means kick him from the group. But be the bigger person. No need to stoop to their level of denigrating other hobbies. An eye for an eye simply leaves everyone blind.

Except for that one guy who will end with one eye after everybody else eds up blind.

{{scrubbed}}

Dandria
2012-04-14, 07:50 PM
Second, a friend of mine decided he doesn't want to be my friend anymore because I refused to start liking MLP

Then your friend is a horrible person. Realy, it's that easy: if he made such a fuss over a cartoon (even a pretty cool one like FiM), then you're better off without him.



For me fight with pony worshipers is personal.

Come at me, bro :smalltongue:

Also, "pony worshipers" does have a nice ring to it :smallbiggrin:

Lither
2012-04-14, 09:03 PM
By all means kick him from the group. But be the bigger person. No need to stoop to their level of denigrating other hobbies. An eye for an eye simply leaves everyone blind.

In the land of the blind, the man with one eye is king.

As for your player, I'm sorry to hear it ended that way, although it was kind of inevitable considering the friction he was causing.

Hiro Protagonest
2012-04-14, 09:11 PM
Then your friend is a horrible person. Realy, it's that easy: if he made such a fuss over a cartoon (even a pretty cool one like FiM), then you're better off without him.

Yeah. If you hated Avatar: The Last Airbender because of the Aang/Katara romance, I'd accept that as a legitimate complaint and would try to get you to watch it more for the other stuff (Sokka's romances are better, then there's Zuko's internal struggle, Iroh's "Lancer" attitude to Zuko's "Hero" attitude (he's not actually the hero, that's reserved for Aang, but it's the best way to describe their relationship), and Toph and Iroh are awesome), but if you really didn't want to spend twenty+ hours in front of a TV watching a show you find mediocre, I'd understand.

Of course, if you hated it because you thought the powers were silly, I'd respond by telling you that you play a game where people can make fireballs by waving bat poo around.

Mystic Muse
2012-04-14, 09:32 PM
And tell him to come back when he will watch cartoon that is actually good. Like Adventure Time.

You know, a few friends suggested Adventure Time to me. I watched it, and I didn't like it. The art irritates me, and I can't remember anything about the episode I watched other than the art. I'm not even sure I watched it all the way through because it just did nothing for me.

And I like (Most of) My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic.

If you don't like something, that's fine. You can criticize a show for its shortcomings (Despite liking the show, there are plenty of episodes that for personal reasons I refuse to ever watch again , and others I just plain didn't like). Insulting an entire fanbase, because one fan of the show is being a horrible person, is not.

You don't like the show? That's fine. You think the fanbase is going overboard? That's fine too. I have a chat of friends (6 of them) all of who watch MLP, and they consistently just go "...Wut." at the fandom sometimes. Just please don't insult us because we like something you don't.

Now, the player being a fan of MLP (I refuse to use the word Brony, also for personal reasons) had nothing to do with his quality as a player. I'm a fan of MLP, my D&D sessions are on Saturdays, and even if I had it on my TV, I wouldn't skip sessions to watch it. My social interactions and friends are [I]much more important than watching a 21 minute episode the day it comes out.

The problem with your player was that he didn't consider your game worth his time, which would have been the case regardless of whether he'd been a fan of the show or not.

rorikdude12
2012-04-14, 10:40 PM
How very mature. Makes me wonder how you'll deal with this sort of thing later on.

I've tried speaking to him with the utmost seriousness and respect multiple times before. He apologizes, whines at me about wanting to come back, and goes back to the same old same old.

If I have to deal with this sort of thing later on, I will do it more forcefully and decisively. Now you have no need to wonder and make snarky and/or sarcastic remarks. :D

Katana_Geldar
2012-04-15, 12:19 AM
This sort of thing happens in all gaming groups at one time or another. And the best thing you can do is be adult about it. Don't listen to his pleading or cajoling, no is no.

SiuiS
2012-04-15, 12:42 AM
He often lies about die rolls, so I declare the subject of the roll a failure.He tried to change his 10 Constitution to an 18, so I subtracted 8 from the original o make it 2.

He skips about every other game session.

He is not that committed when he does, and is very obnoxious and insulting toward me and the other players. He also listens do his iPod during nearly the whole session, and often blares music at us. The other players find him annoying and his only redeeming quality is when they can laugh at his colossal failures.

I am playing a rather serious game. I do leave in humor, and the players make their own. The rest of the party has been having a good time, it seems.

kick him out. Tell him he is cheating and say "we don't want to play with a Gilda." that'll role him up and he won't have a valid counter :smallsmile:

Joking aside, he's mean. Lose him.

EDIT:



Thanks forums. I merely gave him a link to this thread. He decided he doesn't want to play ad told me to f*** off.

I thought if he couldn't take criticism, he shouldn't come.

Heh, I should probably read these things more carefully >>;

Oracle_Hunter
2012-04-15, 12:56 AM
I've tried speaking to him with the utmost seriousness and respect multiple times before. He apologizes, whines at me about wanting to come back, and goes back to the same old same old.

If I have to deal with this sort of thing later on, I will do it more forcefully and decisively. Now you have no need to wonder and make snarky and/or sarcastic remarks. :D
Er... actually, I think Katana_Geldar was talking about sending a link to an internet forum to the dude rather than talking to him face to face.

Unsolicited Advice
As a rule, things go better when you deal with them yourself rather than outsource them. Don't break up with your S.O. through a friend, don't ask someone out via text message, and don't address interpersonal problems by pointing someone at a website.

At best the person gets the message but wonders why you wouldn't deal with them face to face. At worst the person refuses to pay attention because a personal matter is being fobbed off impersonally. If you had said to the Problem Player "hey, I have these problems with your attitude and if you don't work on changing them I don't think I can run a game for you" then at least you had the chance of having a dialogue with the man. Instead you sent him the message "hey, I think you have a problem and these strangers agree with me" which is the equivalent of saying "you're wrong and you should feel bad about it." Why should he bother to engage with you if you won't engage with him?

Now, I know that this particular issue is long running and you have talked to him in the past but ending the whole thing this way is not the way to do it. If you could stand to talk with him face to face you should have given him the simple ultimatum "shape up or ship out" -- it would have been a final outstretched hand that might have salvaged you a Player. Even if you couldn't stand him any more it would have been polite to send him an email in which you said "I have a problem with how you've been acting and I cannot have you in the game anymore" rather than trying to justify your decision with the opinions of strangers.
OK, that was rambly

Unsolicited Advice -- The Short Version
If you have a personal problem with someone, deal with it personally.

If you decide to kick someone out of a game, make it clear that you are making the decision, rather than pretend that something else is making you do it. Advice given to you is for you to use, not to beat a third party over the head with as an Appeal to Authority.

EDIT: Oh yeah, looks like you learned your lesson. I really need to not post when tired :smallredface:

Well, hopefully the advice is useful to someone.

Ashtagon
2012-04-15, 01:04 AM
Originally Posted by Ashtagon View Post
By all means kick him from the group. But be the bigger person. No need to stoop to their level of denigrating other hobbies. An eye for an eye simply leaves everyone blind.

Except for that one guy who will end with one eye after everybody else eds up blind.

Dude, you really don't get it. This saga doesn't end here.

He isn't going to think "that guy beat me, I'll go watch my cartoons and hide". He's going to tell all his friends about how D&D players are a bunch of bigots.

You're not going to be that one guy with one eye at the end of it all. No one is. The only way to win that kind of petty oneup-manship is to not play.

Fatebreaker
2012-04-15, 02:30 AM
First, that's not what I meant - I mean that if guy is treating me and my hobbies as something easy to pick on to make himself feel better, then he deserves having the same done to him. Kicking him out is irrevelant, but would make fun comedic effect.
Second, a friend of mine decided he doesn't want to be my friend anymore because I refused to start liking MLP. For me fight with pony worshipers is personal.

Your fight is not with a television show or its adherents; that will win you no new friends. As you are angry because you lost friends, I presume that friendship is something you value and wish to have in greater quantity and/or quality. Ironically enough, My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic offers several very fine lessons on that very subject. You may wish to study it for your own benefit.

That aside, the simple truth is that your friend was not actually your friend.

Or, like our original poster and his ... less-than-interested player, attacking the show rather than the behavior only confuses the issue and actively prevents it from being solved. It externalizes the problem, so the other party does not have to face the faults within their own actions.

As others have pointed out, it could have been sports, or geese-juggling, or anything else; the activity is not the problem. Their behavior towards the group is the problem. If you want a positive solution (keeping a friend and hosting a fun game), then focusing on behaviors is important.


Except for that one guy who will end with one eye after everybody else eds up blind.

Run the odds; are you sure you'll be the one man standing at the end?

More likely, you'll piss off some chap who would rather not settle for parity of eyes (get it? Parity? 'cause it sounds like "pair-ity," even though there's only one instead of two? Or 'cause now there's only two eyes instead of four? Anyone? Anyone?). Anyhow, you'll run into the guy who would rather just kill you dead than settle for taking an eye.

Really, it's just a bad policy all around.


Dude, you really don't get it. This saga doesn't end here.

He isn't going to think "that guy beat me, I'll go watch my cartoons and hide". He's going to tell all his friends about how D&D players are a bunch of bigots.

You're not going to be that one guy with one eye at the end of it all. No one is. The only way to win that kind of petty oneup-manship is to not play.

The other way to win is to kill the guy trying to take your eye, but other than that, I agree. The message here is not one of "Your behavior is a problem; here is why; here is how it needs to change." The message is, "Your hobby sucks, my hobby rules, eat a bag o' [redacted]." This in no way encourages a change in behavior.

Put another way, Oracle_Hunter's "Unsolicited Advice" is very much worth soliciting.

Bastian Weaver
2012-04-15, 04:59 AM
Your fight is not with a television show or its adherents; that will win you no new friends.

Hey, I want to be your friend if you fight against ponies and their fans!
And I'm kind of glad how this thing turned out. Linking that kid to this thread? Hilarious! :smallsmile:

Somebloke
2012-04-15, 05:14 AM
Yeah, as a DM with 15+ years of experience, I gotta go with the majority of the thread here.

One of the hardest skills you can learn as a DM is dealing with problem players in a calm, authoritative manner- telling them calmly that you won't put up with this behaviour, and actually booting them- personally and calmly, explaining why- once they've exhausted their reservoir of last chances. The way you handled it- doing it via this forum, bringing you pony issues into what is really entirely a DM/player issue- this is not the best way to go about it. Sorry, but you could have handled this a lot better in my opinion.

Man on Fire
2012-04-15, 06:12 AM
You know, a few friends suggested Adventure Time to me. I watched it, and I didn't like it. The art irritates me, and I can't remember anything about the episode I watched other than the art. I'm not even sure I watched it all the way through because it just did nothing for me.

And I like (Most of) My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic.

And so the fandom rivarly was born.


If you don't like something, that's fine. You can criticize a show for its shortcomings (Despite liking the show, there are plenty of episodes that for personal reasons I refuse to ever watch again , and others I just plain didn't like). Insulting an entire fanbase, because one fan of the show is being a horrible person, is not.

You don't like the show? That's fine. You think the fanbase is going overboard? That's fine too. I have a chat of friends (6 of them) all of who watch MLP, and they consistently just go "...Wut." at the fandom sometimes. Just please don't insult us because we like something you don't.

Now, the player being a fan of MLP (I refuse to use the word Brony, also for personal reasons) had nothing to do with his quality as a player. I'm a fan of MLP, my D&D sessions are on Saturdays, and even if I had it on my TV, I wouldn't skip sessions to watch it. My social interactions and friends are [I]much more important than watching a 21 minute episode the day it comes out.

The problem with your player was that he didn't consider your game worth his time, which would have been the case regardless of whether he'd been a fan of the show or not.


Your fight is not with a television show or its adherents; that will win you no new friends. As you are angry because you lost friends, I presume that friendship is something you value and wish to have in greater quantity and/or quality. Ironically enough, My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic offers several very fine lessons on that very subject. You may wish to study it for your own benefit.

That aside, the simple truth is that your friend was not actually your friend.

Or, like our original poster and his ... less-than-interested player, attacking the show rather than the behavior only confuses the issue and actively prevents it from being solved. It externalizes the problem, so the other party does not have to face the faults within their own actions.

As others have pointed out, it could have been sports, or geese-juggling, or anything else; the activity is not the problem. Their behavior towards the group is the problem. If you want a positive solution (keeping a friend and hosting a fun game), then focusing on behaviors is important.

I think I need to clarify something - I don't attack entire MLP fanbase. Just people I can "pony worshipers" or those who call themselves bronie, or just to put it simply, fanatics who thinks that liking this show makes them better person than me. Rest is fine as long as they'll tolerate my dislike of this show.


Dude, you really don't get it. This saga doesn't end here.

He isn't going to think "that guy beat me, I'll go watch my cartoons and hide". He's going to tell all his friends about how D&D players are a bunch of bigots.

You're not going to be that one guy with one eye at the end of it all. No one is. The only way to win that kind of petty oneup-manship is to not play.



Run the odds; are you sure you'll be the one man standing at the end?

More likely, you'll piss off some chap who would rather not settle for parity of eyes (get it? Parity? 'cause it sounds like "pair-ity," even though there's only one instead of two? Or 'cause now there's only two eyes instead of four? Anyone? Anyone?). Anyhow, you'll run into the guy who would rather just kill you dead than settle for taking an eye.

Really, it's just a bad policy all around.

Except that if I let people do what they want, they will cawl on my head. There are some kinds of people who need to get a taste of their own medicine to understand they're acting like jerks. If somebody don't respect my right to like different things than him, then maybe a little bit of me disrespecting his right will show him how nice is that.

And I never said I want to be that last one standing guy or that I think I will. I mererly pointed out that somebody is bound to be left with one eye.

Katana_Geldar
2012-04-15, 06:59 AM
I was going to prove a point in that you don't need to point out that other people are being jerks or reform them, but I won't.

Fun fact: most of the time, people do want to do what they want. And there's nothing you can do about it. Particularly if that idiot is your boss.

Ashtagon
2012-04-15, 07:27 AM
Except that if I let people do what they want, they will cawl on my head. There are some kinds of people who need to get a taste of their own medicine to understand they're acting like jerks. If somebody don't respect my right to like different things than him, then maybe a little bit of me disrespecting his right will show him how nice is that.

Actually, in the long run, he will be out of your life before you know it. This time next year, you'll have forgotten about him. Maybe he will too. Or maybe he will have learned that D&D players are jerks. He certainly won't have learned not to be a jerk. What you did teach him was that being a jerk is a legitimate act in social interaction.

You don't teach people not to be a jerk by being a jerk to them.


And I never said I want to be that last one standing guy or that I think I will. I mererly pointed out that somebody is bound to be left with one eye.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mutual_assured_destruction