OOTS #849 - The Discussion Thread

[The Giant]

New comic is up.

[JSSheridan]

Thanks Giant!

[CoffeeIncluded]

I loved the first and last panel.

"Wait until the end of the mission," hmm....:smallamused:

[Crisis21]

Love the last panel there!


"Sir! Watch your grammar!"

"What's wrong it?"

"Absolutely nothing!"

[Felyndiira]

:thog:: thog not like not-thog. thog not say not-smash. thog smash.

[Forealms]

I'm liking Malack less and less. Too much of a pushover.

[Argok]

I miss Thog.

[Dr.Epic]

Thog wouldn't be caught dead in that helmet.

[Aerodynamik]

As an official Tongue-Clucking Grammarian (http://frontalot.com/index.php/?page=lyrics&lyricid=54), I approve of this comic.

[Skyrunner]

THOG SMASHES! is way too good grammer! :P


More like thog smash? :3

[Yendor]

Cost-saving glamered armour? Okay, that's a good one.

[Forikroder]

at least now well have no more "why can they fly in the Windy cavern" and "you dont really think Nale is in charge do you?"

[Randomguy]

We all miss Thog. He may have been evil, but he was darn good comic relief.
At least we know the glamour won't work, since Durkon's got true seeing. Unless it's dispelled. Or Tarquin stays out of the spell's range and lets Malack handle him. I guess it could go eithe way, really.

I was expecting the axe that Tarquin had during the earlier strips. This new one took me by surprise. It is perhaps the most evil looking weapon I have ever seen. :smalleek:

EDIT: Huh. It's the same one as in the flashbacks. I must have been thinking of the axe thog used in the gladiator match.

[Whiffet]

So Tarquin will pretend to be Thog, eh? I approve. :smallbiggrin: I suppose he'll be at an advantage with everyone assuming he's an idiot.

I love how Tarquin calls Nale "O Great Leader of the Linear Guild." He probably didn't have a trace of (detectable) sarcasm, but I imagine it in the most sarcastic tone possible anyway.

[wizuriel]

I wonder if Malack has some way to blend in with the linear guild also

[Thokk_Smash]

This just seems so disadvantageous for the OOTS. Hopefully V makes a reappearance, otherwise it's gonna take a big intervention for them to make it through.

Also, Tarquin's lack of improper grammar was quite amusing.

[stsasser]

Eight pages of speech balloons? OH SNAP!

[MReav]

This just seems so disadvantageous for the OOTS. Hopefully V makes a reappearance, otherwise it's gonna take a big intervention for them to make it through.

Team Evil arrival?

[Forikroder]

Team Evil arrival?

they need a mirracle not a hurricane ;)

[Zolthux]

Finally! our LG vs OotS battle!

[Marsala]

"HEY! Who are you calling a devil??"

Yet more evidence that Sabine is a demoness? Though we know that she's a succubus, there's been a sliver of doubt.

[Prospero7]

Interesting. Now if Durkon's True Sight gets dispelled/cancelled somehow, Tarquin's disguise and probable ranks in Bluff might just work. :smallsmile:

[cc_kizz]

Awesome! I'm curious how long before the Order finds out Tarquin double-crossed them…

Heh heh. Thog.

[The Anti Hero]

By the way Tarquin stressed the phrase "end of the mission," I'm willing to venture a guess and say that he's still planning on betraying Nale to Malack at the end of all this little adventure :smallmad:

On another note: it always rocks when a comic goes up while you're randomly perusing the site!

[RMS Oceanic]

As suspected, Tarquin is following his own agenda, that seems to count on the Order not knowing he doublecrossed them. I'll be interested to see what it is.

[Sky_Schemer]

I'm liking Malack less and less. Too much of a pushover.

There's more going on to this than meets the eye.

[DeathOfAMailman]

Heh, love the subtle title-based joke.

[Zubrowka74]

Anyone else notice that Tarquin's speech balloon in the first panel isn't actually connected to him? I mean, it's obvious that Tarquin is speaking, but it still bugs me.

Disincarnated, like Vader style ?

[Goosefeather]

Yeah, Tarquin and Malack definitely have some unspoken plan to later dispose of Nale, what with that stress on the 'end' of the mission...

[Forikroder]

i doubt Durkons true seeing is going to matter much he never saw Tarquins helmet so he wouldnt realise that its not Thog


Yeah, Tarquin and Malack definitely have some unspoken plan to later dispose of Nale, what with that stress on the 'end' of the mission...

they get to live like gods controlling a third of the continent

but yes they do plan to kill Nale, long before the end of the mission as soon as there reasonably confident they can dow hat needs to be done with the gate

[t209]

Now Tarquin's a badass.
Just pray that redcloak appears in front of Tarquin and turn him into pile of bones and organs.

[Math_Mage]

Sabine's race re-resolved. Confirmation of T&M's intentions regarding Nale. And yet more information control by Tarquin, right down to an "Oh, so THAT'S why he brought out his axe for this occasion" epiphany. Great strip.

[Randomguy]

Now Tarquin's a badass.
Just pray that redcloak appears in front of Tarquin and turn him into pile of bones and organs.

10:1 odds Tarquin has either freakishly high saving throws or some kind of contingency/immunity to it. There is a way to get immunity to implosion, right? It's not a death effect, so that makes it a bit more difficult.

[Finagle]

Ah, Tarqin's famous axe at last makes its appearance. I wonder what it does. Intelligent, maybe? Or is that still just for swords? Notice him taking it out of the pteranodon's saddlebags instead of strapped on his back?

More evidence for Kilkil being of the Factotum class. He just sits around and helps optimize his boss.

Control Winds would have worked - if Durkon hadn't made a usage error and misunderstood 'windy', due to it being a printed comic. It would have been too easy, OOTS had to go through the maze the 'hard' way. The good guys don't get shortcuts, only evil does. The twist being that the maze wasn't hard at all, due to the Draketooths all being dead.

I wonder how much falling damage OOTS took. You know, to be realistic. (http://grognardia.blogspot.com/2012/02/articles-of-dragon-physics-and-falling.html) :smallbiggrin:

I notice that, in addition to the lack of grammar error, Tarquin manages to use bold characters - but not lowercase! :smalltongue:

[ti'esar]

I don't understand why people keep calling Malack a pushover. It is becoming blindingly obvious that Tarquin & Co are going to turn on Nale when the "mission" is over.

Loved the last panel. Nale got some good lines too.

A little surprised that Roy really was planning on taking the fight to the air - it's not as if that's never given him problems before, is it?

[Porthos]

:smallsigh::smallsigh::smallsigh: at the title of the strip. :smallamused:

[Forikroder]

10:1 odds Tarquin has either freakishly high saving throws or some kind of contingency/immunity to it. There is a way to get immunity to implosion, right? It's not a death effect, so that makes it a bit more difficult.

theres no spell (outside of something a Deity would cast) thats jsut kill, theres always some sort of save

i dont think Team Evil is likely to interfere with this fight, imo everyone fights there evil double Z goes of looking for V to settle there fight every member of OoTS managed to eek out there win, Z wakes up girard and subsequently gets owned by them, a couple strips of OoTS talking with Girard, and Girard takes them to where the gate is only to find Xykon putting up new drapes

que epic epic level wizards duel

[Whiffet]

10:1 odds Tarquin has either freakishly high saving throws or some kind of contingency/immunity to it. There is a way to get immunity to implosion, right? It's not a death effect, so that makes it a bit more difficult.

In a Tarquin vs. Redcloak battle, I would bet on Redcloak.

I guess Tarquin could make his save against Implosion, but I'd still bet on Redcloak.

[Randomguy]

I notice that, in addition to the lack of grammar error, Tarquin manages to use bold characters - but not lowercase! :smalltongue:

THOG SPEAK IN UPPERCASE (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0808.html) WHILE RAGING!

[Forikroder]

In a Tarquin vs. Redcloak battle, I would bet on Redcloak.

I guess Tarquin could make his save against Implosion, but I'd still bet on Redcloak.

that cause redcloak is a high level cleric hes got spells that dont rely on tarquins high fort save

realistically a pure class fighter cannot take down a spellcaster

[Randomguy]

Redcloak would definitely win against Tarquin, but it wouldn't a curb stomp battle. I'd expect Tarquin to last a few rounds. And while they're both intelligent combatants, Tarquin is much more genre savy, giving him an edge.

Does anyone else remember that the whole point of letting Nale live was to get closer to Xykon and Redcloak? I expect some rushed diplomacy if team evil shows up.

What do you think will happen if team Evil and team Tarquin meet? It'll take some very clever scheming to get their hands on the gate ritual. And even if Tarquin does get it, and casts it without realising what it actually does...

Well, no matter what happens, things are going to get interesting. :smallamused:

[Marsala]

realistically a pure class fighter cannot take down a spellcaster

Don't tell Roy that.

[Smolder]

http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g68/Cats_Are_Aliens/Banners/Tarquin.png "Try to look forward to the end of the mission..."

That sounds ominous for Nale!

[Forikroder]

Redcloak would definitely win against Tarquin, but it wouldn't a curb stomp battle. I'd expect Tarquin to last a few rounds. And while they're both intelligent combatants, Tarquin is much more genre savy, giving him an edge.

Does anyone else remember that the whole point of letting Nale live was to get closer to Xykon and Redcloak? I expect some rushed diplomacy if team evil shows up.

What do you think will happen if team Evil and team Tarquin meet? It'll take some very clever scheming to get their hands on the gate ritual. And even if Tarquin does get it, and casts it without realising what it actually does...

Well, no matter what happens, things are going to get interesting. :smallamused:

i wonder waht tarquin and malack will do when they find out Nale doesnt actually have any idea what the ritual is and isnt actually close to team evil enough to get any info for him

[t209]

I think the Order should dig in to the temple (like cafeteria or some safe room) instead of rushing out.

[The MunchKING]

I'm liking Malack less and less. Too much of a pushover.

He's totally been promised Nale's head AFTER the mission, I'm betting.

[The MunchKING]

realistically a pure class fighter cannot take down a spellcaster

That depends entierly on how close they start out and how much prep the caster gets.

[Yendor]

I don't understand why people keep calling Malack a pushover. It is becoming blindingly obvious that Tarquin & Co are going to turn on Nale when the "mission" is over.

It's obvious Malack is going to turn on Nale. Tarquin is still trying to play it both ways. The "end of the mission" line is deliberately ambiguous.

[Ninjadeadbeard]

He's totally been promised Nale's head AFTER the mission, I'm betting.

Or cake. There could always be cake. But I'll hedge my bets and agree on the betrayal thing. :smallwink:

[Forikroder]

It's obvious Malack is going to turn on Nale. Tarquin is still trying to play it both ways. The "end of the mission" line is deliberately ambiguous.

no way Tarquin plans to let nale live, remember who knows what you know is as important as you knowing it and nale knowing that Tarquin has a gate is too dangerous info to let someone like Nale run around with

Tarquin will kill him if only so that he never lets others know about him having the gate

[Forealms]

He's totally been promised Nale's head AFTER the mission, I'm betting.

Looking back at the fourth panel, this does seem pretty likely. But there are still too many reasons why he should have killed Nale by now. Perhaps foremost among them is that every minute he delays is another minute Nale has to plan his escape/survival.

[MoonCat]

Ha! I loved it. This one felt better to me as a whole than the last two. More cohesive, I guess.

[MeanMrsMustard]

Yay, new comic while online! And I was just about to go to bed, too.
Great comic. There were so many parts I loved: The jab about filling eight pages with speech balloons, "Who are you calling a devil?", the end of the mission (:elan: dun dun DUN!), "Permission to hasten my inheritance granted," "THOG SMASHES!", and Kilkil at the end. I'm absolutely on tenterhooks for Strip #850. (Which better be a long one, by the way. :smallwink:)

[Narren]

So who's going to explain the title to dumb 'ole me? I'm assuming it has to do with Tarquin's grammar?

[Marlowe]

Lots of nice things here.

"Who are you calling a devil?":smallbiggrin:

But for some reason the detail I really like is that you can make out all five (minus V, of course) OOTS members on the flying carpet.

And Nale. It's gotta be hard relying on your girlfriend to support your useless ass. Especially with the old man watching.

Is it just me or has Sabine been very protective of Nale lately?

[Gift Jeraff]

Oh, Tarquin. You'll never be as awesome as the other T-meister, no matter how hard you try. :smalltongue:
Looking back at the fourth panel, this does seem pretty likely. But there are still too many reasons why he should have killed Nale by now. Perhaps foremost among them is that every minute he delays is another minute Nale has to plan his escape/survival.Tarquin might be expecting just that. If Nale can properly escape/survive/kill Malack before he can kill him, then he's worthy to live in Tarquin's eyes.

[T.G. Oskar]

Is it just me, or I feel Tarquin is just a tad too confident to have made a terrible mistake?

I mean, he had Elan shivering when he told him that, while Elan would be hailed as a hero, he would be called a legend.

Instead, Elan kills "Thog", and Tarquin is nowhere to be seen. Elan's obtuseness will disable the "Thog = disguised Tarquin" idea, or perhaps Roy will just go head to head with "not-Thog" and behead him or something. Then, Elan's genre savviness will kick in, and he'll claim "well, I didn't kill Dad, and Roy didn't kill Dad either. He killed Thog."

Or something. Point is, by acting like someone else, either Tarquin is following a higher call (the legendary villain call) or he made a blunder he didn't carefully consider in his plans. And, yet, he may survive out of sheer darn luck.

It'd be fun for Elan to point "what? Didn't that guy was Thog?" in his usual speech and completely miss the point, neatly bypassing Tarquin's desired legacy.

If anything, it's all as Banjo designs. All of it.

[Finagle]

"Suspicious Agreement" refers to subject/verb agreement (http://owl.english.purdue.edu/owl/resource/599/01/). The basic rule states that a singular subject takes a singular verb while a plural subject takes a plural verb. "I smash" is correct, while referring to oneself in the third person as "thog" should use "smashes", but of course Thog uses first person. It's the principal of the thing.

[Pokonic]

Ah, now that was unexpected. This is presumably is going to be highly amusing.

[Mutant Sheep]

Yay, I like battle-Tarquin. Without his face, he's all mysteriously funny instead of "why is Elan smart and grey an-oh yeah". I like his axe. Are those red runes I see?:smallcool:

[ti'esar]

Yay, I like battle-Tarquin. Without his face, he's all mysteriously funny instead of "why is Elan smart and grey an-oh yeah". I like his axe. Are those red runes I see?:smallcool:

Huh, so they are. That definitely ups the odds that it's more than just a cool-looking weapon - or rather, while at his level it's obviously enchanted somehow, it's got better odds now of being capable of something "flashy".

[KoboldRevenge]

So we're seeing the story through the Guilds eyes, this is an interesting view.

[treyh37]

the sabine not wanting to be called a devil is interesting in 2 ways:

one has been mentioned of proof that shes a demoness.

Secondly she seems to hate devils, which is normally understandable given the fiendish races hate for one another, but she works for the IFCC, which is all about fiends working together towards a greater evil.

[oppyu]

Now we see the importance of Durkon keeping true seeing on for the battle. Tarquin's ruse won't last long.

Also, Mr. Scruffy being unharmed (either because they didn't bring the cat on their carpet charge or cats always landing on their feet) was a nice touch.

I figured Sabine would object to 'vapid', not 'devil'.

[ti'esar]

I think you're reading too much into it there - it's really just a sort of stock joke.

[skaddix]

Nice, although no surprise they are planning to backstab Nale.

As for Melee vs Spellcaster, remember this is a story not a game of DD so Giant will ignore stuff as he see fits. Still I won't mind see Redcloak get owned again like he was when he went against Miko.

[fruityjanitor]

"Eight pages of speech balloons" was a great comment! I love when webcomics poke fun at themselves! :smallbiggrin:

I'm wondering what Tarquin is planning to do. Going in 1 vs 5 (and for all he knows, it is 1 vs 6 because they haven't noticed V's absence) seems pretty risky (even with level and equipment advantage) and a little too "brute force" for his tastes.

Maybe he actually has something else in mind? For example, perhaps he is going to reveal his true identity when he gets in melee range and tell the OotS that he is a double agent and will help them defeat LG when the time is right...

Yeah that's probably a crazy idea. But going in 1v5 is pretty crazy too...

Edit: Miscounted how much of the Order was present...

[oppyu]

Nice, although no surprise they are planning to backstab Nale.

As for Melee vs Spellcaster, remember this is a story not a game of DD so Giant will ignore stuff as he see fits. Still I won't mind see Redcloak get owned again like he was when he went against Miko.
Hey, Redcloak could have won if he didn't waste a round expecting Xykon to help while Miko was stunned :smallannoyed:

[Morgan Wick]

"HEY! Who are you calling a devil??"

Yet more evidence that Sabine is a demoness? Though we know that she's a succubus, there's been a sliver of doubt.

It's also a rather un-IFCC thing to say. I haven't taken 804 as a sign Sabine was considering betraying the IFCC, but this comic makes me wonder.

[Hokum]

Such an old punchline and I still had to laugh out loud. thanks for another great comic.

As others mentioned before me. I miss Thog, even if I see how his sillyness would not fit the increasingly high stakes in the comic.

Also I'm looking forward to Malack dealing out Death.

[Armitage]

It's also a rather un-IFCC thing to say. I haven't taken 804 as a sign Sabine was considering betraying the IFCC, but this comic makes me wonder.
Just because your work with (or for) devils doesn't mean you have to like them.

Did you never work for a boss that you didn't like?

[Scowling Dragon]

I just want a fight scene with all of the team.:smallfrown:

Most of them is the OOts blundering about attempting to run away from everybody (The bugs didn't count. They where just mooks).

[Winter]

Ah, another one of Nale's braindead stupid plans.

[Dandria]

Oh Tarquin, you magnificent bastard: charging alone against an entire party? What are you plotting now?

[StrykerX]

It's also a rather un-IFCC thing to say. I haven't taken 804 as a sign Sabine was considering betraying the IFCC, but this comic makes me wonder.

Just because she can tolerate working with devils doesn't mean she wants to be mistaken for one...


As for Melee vs Spellcaster, remember this is a story not a game of DD so Giant will ignore stuff as he see fits. Still I won't mind see Redcloak get owned again like he was when he went against Miko.

In theory a spellcaster can usually deal with a fighter pretty easily, but assuming that Tarquin and Redcloak ran into each other rather suddenly so that Redcloak didn't have time to buff up or start the fight from long range it isn't a sure thing. Some high level fighters can do some very serious damage and they're generally too tough for any purely hit point based attacks to one- or two-shot (especially with Harm's damage capped in 3.5), so Redcloak will have to rely on a save or die effect or go for incapacitation. Tarquin's Fort save is probably insanely good so a Will based effect is Redcloak's best bet unless he has something he can cast in one round that will keep him out of melee (like going ethereal long enough to buff up). A couple of high Will save rolls and some heavy hitting axe blows by Tarquin could put Redcloak on the defensive to the point where he has to decide between healing himself (and giving Tarquin more swings at him) or risking death to try another all or nothing spell.

Now if Redcloak has a few rounds' warning to put up defenses and summon some devils then sure, Tarquin is in for a very bad day... but if they run into each other with no warning and Redcloak has only his long duration buffs running then it could go either way. Especially if Tarquin wins initiative and turns out to have some sort of feat that lets him disarm / break Redcloak's holy symbol or stun him. If Redcloak has to use Word of Recall again to escape from another high level warrior who takes his holy symbol away (while being an entire continent away from where he'll end up, no less) he'll be lucky to only lose the other eye once Xykon catches up to him. :smalltongue:

[RMS Oceanic]

If Nale doesn't want them going up, where does he want them to go?

Keeping in mind he doesn't know about the Mystery of the Interrupted Lunchtime, perhaps he wants to force them to retreat into the temple again and in some way reveal its secrets. The smart tactical thing, had Malack agreed, would be to wait until they were a few hundred feet higher up and then blow them off for a repeat of 443. It will be interesting to see what Nale's plan is - and how Tarquin plans to use and abuse it.

[Purgatorius]

What is a glamered armour?

[Yendor]

What is a glamered armour?

It's one that can change appearance, presumably to hide the fact you're wearing armour.

(Strictly by the rules, it's supposed to resemble normal clothing, but they're being bent so it can look like a different set of armour. Or maybe it's clothing that just happens to look like armour. :smallwink:)

[Icedaemon]

Glamered armour (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/magicArmor.htm) is indeed a clever choice here. Given how the armour itself is most probably a ~100 000 GP masterpiece boasting considerable resistances to several elements in addition to a +4 or +5, a flat tax of merely 2700 for even a moderately useful enchantment is prudent.


By the way Tarquin stressed the phrase "end of the mission," I'm willing to venture a guess and say that he's still planning on betraying Nale to Malack at the end of all this little adventure :smallmad:

On another note: it always rocks when a comic goes up while you're randomly perusing the site!

The proper term would be 'discarding', not 'betraying'.

This did seem to be the deal from the get go.

...

Let the countdown to the nigh-inevitable five or so 'what are Tarquin's armour's enchantments' topics commence.

[hamishspence]

What is a glamered armour?

Technically all it does is allow you to disguise your armour as normal clothing.

However since the property requires the Disguise Self spell to make it- it might, here, have been upgraded to grant the full benefits of the spell.

More like "Armour of Disguise Self" than "glamoured armour"

[Nohar]

As it had been repeatedly stated in the comic and in the forums, Durkon has True Seeing. The duration of the spell is 1min./level. I think we can assume that the spell is still on. So, Durkon will recognize Tarquin's armor (though not the helmet indeed). If you take into account the presence of undisguised Malak and Kilkil, it's pretty obvious that even Durkon (I think he has an average INT score, and with his high WIS it's obvious that he will put 2 and 2 together) will understand what's going on.

The first panel is pure gold :smallbiggrin: It reminds me that every once in a while Nale delivers some pearls.

I'm sure hoping that Malack and Tarquin will have the final laugh at the end of this cooperation... Though, the Order may suffer from it. It's obvious that Malack is reluctant to obey to Nale and Tarquin. I'm really wondering what is Tarquin's angle here...

Well, Team Evil is the only one missing. If/once it arrives (if Team Evil isn't in fact already there... A flight spell is enough to evade most traps I guess), prepare the pop-corn.

[Killer Angel]

"Wait until the end of the mission," hmm....:smallamused:

Indeed... I believe that one is the "suspicious agreement". :smallsmile:

[Winter]

What I find odd is that Rich/Nale sticks to the Evil Opposite Theme. They knew after the Azur City Escape that it was overused.

While the comic is good, I really look forward to Nale biting the dust (in an awesome and climatic way) so we finally can get over him, the LG and the Evil Opposite Theme.

---

The comic now made clear who dropped the ball in the last one. Tarquin considers Nale to have made a bad descision with attacking in this way.

I also find it nice how clear it becomes what a magificent bastard Tarquin is. He did not give away Thog was dead (or alive) so he could double as Thog in an confrontation with the Order (only to appear later as "totally uninvolved"). I'm curious if Roy, who has fought his rounds against Thog and who is smart, that something is off with this "Thog".

[dtilque]

Also, Mr. Scruffy being unharmed (either because they didn't bring the cat on their carpet charge or cats always landing on their feet) was a nice touch.
He wasn't on the carpet. Notice panel 5 has five of the OotS plus the carpet and Haley's bow in the air. No cat. If you could see the bow, the cat should have been visible too.


I figured Sabine would object to 'vapid', not 'devil'.
It's a joke that she only objects to "devil" and not "vapid" or "whore". Not a terribly funny joke, though.

[Winter]

Indeed... I believe that one is the "suspicious agreement". :smallsmile:

I very much agree. This statement makes me believe Tarquin indeed wants to get rid of Nale. It's very unclear for now how Tarquin really stands towards Nale. An enemy that is to be fought? Sure. Someone who is to be killed? I have no idea.
This "agreement" seems to actually indicate Tarquin will allow Nale to die when he used up his usefulness. Unless it references something else, of course. :smallbiggrin:

[WindStruck]

Maybe Tarquin just wants to personally off Roy, Belkar, and V but pin the blame on thog... still, his disguise probably won't work and I think it's a bad idea to go 1v5 on them. Maybe he thinks they'll be easy to take down due to all the acid damage?

[kickassfrog]

the sabine not wanting to be called a devil is interesting in 2 ways:

one has been mentioned of proof that shes a demoness.

Secondly she seems to hate devils, which is normally understandable given the fiendish races hate for one another, but she works for the IFCC, which is all about fiends working together towards a greater evil.

Tarquin is working with Nale, doesn't mean he likes him any more.
Just because you work together, doesn't mean you have to like one another.
See also V and Belkar.

[Winter]

I doubt he will actually fight alone. He's just the first to dive in, the others are meant to follow.

I suspect this charge also is meant to keep Nale from attacking/killing the Order from a distance but to move things into melee so Tarquin can do... whatever he wants to do. I'd be surprised of Tarquin's charge was about charging alone*.

* But note he said he is eager to fight Roy. So he might try to take his chance before Roy is too worn down by distance spells.

[Michaeler]

"Suspicious Agreement" refers to subject/verb agreement (http://owl.english.purdue.edu/owl/resource/599/01/). The basic rule states that a singular subject takes a singular verb while a plural subject takes a plural verb. "I smash" is correct, while referring to oneself in the third person as "thog" should use "smashes", but of course Thog uses first person. It's the principal of the thing.

Thog's grammatical error is in his understanding of personal pronouns. Thog Smash! is in the first person. Tarquin's mistake is in assuming Thog speaks about himself in the third person.

[suszterpatt]

Oh Tarquin, you crafty bastard.

[Belril Duskwalk]

Ah, Tarqin's famous axe at last makes its appearance. I wonder what it does. Intelligent, maybe? Or is that still just for swords? Notice him taking it out of the pteranodon's saddlebags instead of strapped on his back?

Virtually any weapon can be Intelligent. It's just that swords are more likely to be Intelligent than other weapons.

[martianmister]

Secondly she seems to hate devils, which is normally understandable given the fiendish races hate for one another, but she works for the IFCC, which is all about fiends working together towards a greater evil.


It's also a rather un-IFCC thing to say. I haven't taken 804 as a sign Sabine was considering betraying the IFCC, but this comic makes me wonder.

I don't think so. Calling her devil is like, call a Japanese or Korean person as Chinese.

[Yonphillip]

Remember Tarquin saying "This is Business, Malack. Business. (emphasis original)"? Malack agreed to this little team up right after that. Wild speculation here, but what if it's a code between the two of them, as in "Business before Pleasure." Finding the gate is a profit thing, killing Nale right after would be for fun. Maybe that's why Malack is agreeing to work with Nale, despite his obvious hatred for him, and Nale's provocations.

[AlfredAmeoba]

I think that is more than likely. "Try to look forward to the END of the mission" isn't ominous at all :smallsmile:

[The Pilgrim]

Well, at last the audience knows the answer to the ancient question; is Sabine a Devil or a Demon? Demon.

Haley, on the other hand, will have to keep guessing.

[fergo]

Secondly she seems to hate devils, which is normally understandable given the fiendish races hate for one another, but she works for the IFCC, which is all about fiends working together towards a greater evil.

Just because she works for them doesn't necessarily mean that she shares their values :smallamused:.

[Kish]

Well, at last the audience knows the answer to the ancient question; is Sabine a Devil or a Demon? Demon.

Haley, on the other hand, will have to keep guessing.
Neither the audience nor the Order has been guessing for a long time. Remember when Elan's rapier wasn't working on Sabine and he complained about it not being cold iron? And as for readers, there's been no reason for us to be guessing since the IFCC said "a succubus."

[raymundo]

I don't think so. Calling her devil is like, call a Japanese or Korean person as Chinese.

Making the person who was incorrectly referred to politetly correting their origin?

But I agree! I don't think one could assume that means she "hates" devils, some people are just very annoyed if you get their origin wrong. Which was your point.

Hm.

[DaOldeWolf]

So, Tarquin is going to fight disguised. I wonder if it means that Tarquin is trying to make sure Elan stays safe.

[Rothgar]

Aha! Nale wasn't expecting the Order to leave the pyramid so maybe Roy made the right call after all.

Perhaps Nale wanted to send the order down into the dungeon so that they would weaken themselves/clear traps for the LG.

Crafty :B

[The Glyphstone]

Making the person who was incorrectly referred to politetly correting their origin?

But I agree! I don't think one could assume that means she "hates" devils, some people are just very annoyed if you get their origin wrong. Which was your point.

Hm.

It's significantly more volatile than that, but explaining why is a nosedive straight into Politics and history - suffice to say that historical relations between Japanese and Korean/Chinese and those between Devils and Demons have uncomfortable parallels.

[Jay R]

that cause redcloak is a high level cleric hes got spells that dont rely on tarquins high fort save

realistically a pure class fighter cannot take down a spellcaster

Of course, he shouldn't be able to win a pun duel with a Dashing Swordsman, either. Or control a red dragon.


Looking back at the fourth panel, this does seem pretty likely. But there are still too many reasons why he should have killed Nale by now. Perhaps foremost among them is that every minute he delays is another minute Nale has to plan his escape/survival.

And Nale's plans always work so well...


Awesome! I'm curious how long before the Order finds out Tarquin double-crossed them…

I'm wondering how long before we find out whether he has done so. Never assume Tarquin is doing what it appears he's doing. He may be about to say, "Hey, Elan! I brought your brother's group here for a final confrontation, and made sure that he wouldn't pick up a Fighter or Cleric. They should be easy pickings now."


Thog's grammatical error is in his understanding of personal pronouns. Thog Smash! is in the first person. Tarquin's mistake is in assuming Thog speaks about himself in the third person.

But is it a mistake, or is Tarquin intending for the OotS to "cleverly" see through his disguise?


"Suspicious Agreement" refers to subject/verb agreement (http://owl.english.purdue.edu/owl/resource/599/01/). The basic rule states that a singular subject takes a singular verb while a plural subject takes a plural verb. "I smash" is correct, while referring to oneself in the third person as "thog" should use "smashes", but of course Thog uses first person. It's the principal of the thing.

It's also about how suspicious it is that Tarquin and Nale are agreeing, even though neither one is on the same side as the other.

[Riverdance]

Why do they bring the kobold along? What use is he in fight?

[qwertyu63]

Why do they bring the kobold along? What use is he in fight?

He likely is useless in a fight, but you know how Nale is with his themes, with him it needs to be 6v6.

[Burner28]

Liked this strip!

[Jay R]

The OotS entered the pyramid in #841, and 842 and 843 were two page strips.

Anybody else notice that they were filling up their eighth page with word balloons when the attack happened in 847?

[homeslice]

absolutely nothing. heh :biggrin:

[brionl]

"Suspicious Agreement" refers to subject/verb agreement (http://owl.english.purdue.edu/owl/resource/599/01/). The basic rule states that a singular subject takes a singular verb while a plural subject takes a plural verb. "I smash" is correct, while referring to oneself in the third person as "thog" should use "smashes", but of course Thog uses first person. It's the principal of the thing.

Malack's agreement to wait until the "end of the mission" is slightly suspicious as well. Or it should be to Nale anyway.

[Soranar]

Well still have no indication as to which class Tarquin's is...

And considering he's clearly intelligent and seems confident to be able to do anything... Factotum?

[brionl]

I don't think so. Calling her devil is like, call a Japanese or Korean person as Chinese.

It's an old gag. Somebody gets called a string of insulting terms, and they object to the least insulting one.
"Lazy, scrofulous son of a syphilitic whore!"
"Hey, I'm not lazy."

[Kish]

Well still have no indication as to which class Tarquin's is...

And considering he's clearly intelligent and seems confident to be able to do anything... Factotum?
He referred to himself as a warrior and invited himself into the role of the Linear Guild's meat-shield, what part of that makes you think "probably a skillmonkey class"?

[Heksefatter]

I think that Nale has something nasty coming up, asssuming that the OotS doesn't deal it to him first.

Also: Looking forward to see what comes of Tarquin's disguise and Durkon's true seeing.

[St Fan]

Very nice trip. Plenty of little details to find with each rereading:

- Am I the only one to read Malack's visible silence in panel 4 as an annoyed, inhuman hiss?

- Belkar falling to the floor last. Make sense, since he's the lighter one he's been blown up by the whirlwind higher than the rest of the Order.

- Mr. Scruffy staying safe in the pyramid is also a nice touch. An animal companion wouldn't be of much use to fight on an already-crowded carpet, even if cats are supposed to land on their feet.

- The wings of Tarquin's pteranodon are slightly transparent.

- The glamoured armor is also a nice effect. Not that he says he's activating the power, hinting that the red-and-spiky look is the normal one for the armor, and the purple one the disguise. Also, it's "one" of the armor's enchantments... no doubt it can do further things.

- Tarquin's axe. Ominous. Nice art evolution since the last times (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0050.html) we've seen it. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0725.html)

And yes, once this mission ends, Malack will certainly get the pleasure of taking his revenge on Nale. There's a good chance it'd happen before, in fact, if Malack runs out of patience or Nale gets especially obnoxious.

[BlackDragonKing]

What I find odd is that Rich/Nale sticks to the Evil Opposite Theme. They knew after the Azur City Escape that it was overused.

While the comic is good, I really look forward to Nale biting the dust (in an awesome and climatic way) so we finally can get over him, the LG and the Evil Opposite Theme.

---

The comic now made clear who dropped the ball in the last one. Tarquin considers Nale to have made a bad descision with attacking in this way.

I also find it nice how clear it becomes what a magificent bastard Tarquin is. He did not give away Thog was dead (or alive) so he could double as Thog in an confrontation with the Order (only to appear later as "totally uninvolved"). I'm curious if Roy, who has fought his rounds against Thog and who is smart, that something is off with this "Thog".

Although depending on your personal interpretation this might be one of the first times it's ever been an actual evil opposite fight rather than the Order vs Nale and a group of superficially similar characters.

ZZi is cripplingly overspecialized to have a build specifically meant to fight against V and nobody else, which means he kind of HAS to be up against his opposite number because that's what his entire arsenal is built for.

Elan and Nale have been evil opposites all along and now find themselves in similar roles of being believed by others to be the leader of the group while the fighter is really the brains of the operation (although Tarquin is being laid-back about it because he's letting Nale and Sabine run the show for now).

Sabine and Haley have always been kind of weak in the evil opposite theme since Sabine hasn't been a rogue or used arrows since her disguise came off ages ago, but that can be allowed to slide, I suppose.

Malak would be the first time Durkon is actually fighting against another cleric, since Hilgya was taken out of the fight in the first confrontation and Leeky was a druid, and Durkon tends towards positive energy spells from what we've seen while Malak tends towards negative.

If Roy refuses to acknowledge Thog as an evil opposite in favor of simply considering them different (Technically Thog is mostly a barbarian with a couple levels of fighter, so they're not even using most of the same skills, are they?), he's probably going to have to admit that Tarquin does qualify as an intelligent, capable warrior and leader as well as a strong fighter, only evil and possessed of a sense of theatrics to go along with the practical approach.

As for the kobold, if he's a smart, skill-based but not action-oriented character than that makes for a fairly polar opposite to dumb, violence-based Belkar.

Still, the concept probably ought to be retired after this battle, preferably with Nale's demise.

[Iranon]

I like how Tarquin makes good use of relatively mundane abilities. That happens far too rarely, but tbh that's the game's fault for having large parts written like a small-scale wargame.

Who needs wishes when you can have creative applications of cantrips...

[Caivs]

Hmmm, as much as Tarquin haters will hate me for that, I must say his axe added to his confidence make him look like the most dangerous character in play here, I don't think the order is going to be able to defeat him so easily :D.

Also there's something that tells me he wouldn't get crushed so easily by Team Evil as some people speculate (Not saying he'd be able to defeat Redcloak, but it'd probably be a more just match). For now, every single main villain have been spellcasters. For a comic in which the main character's goal is to show it possible to defeat a sorcerer lich while being a fighter, it'd be kinda awkward to introduce the first fighter villain of the comic(who is important enough to have the complete ressources of a third of a continent) and have him anticlimaticly one shotted by say, a cleric who's the least powerful of Team Evil (If we count Xykon, RC and MitD, with Tsukiko gone).

Plus, apart from the fact he must not be as weak as some people say, this arc would also be a nice occasion to show that sometimes, sheer power isn't everything to consider. Strategy, trickery, charisma and ressources are in play as well. I don't think Team Evil will just pop in and desintegrate him, he's not a second Kubota.

Anyway, in regards to the situation right now, I wonder if he'll get instantly recognized by Durkon. Maybe Rich let his head off-panel on purpose and he's been stunned or something.

[Mutant Sheep]

Anyway, in regards to the situation right now, I wonder if he'll get instantly recognized by Durkon. Maybe Rich let his head off-panel on purpose and he's been stunned or something.

:smallconfused: He DOES still have a head-covering helmet on. Not gonna see his face through that. Maybe they'll go "what, RED armor??" but unless a stun destroys the expensive piece of helmet, I don't see how they could see his face unless he takes it off.

[creepyeye]

So now Tarquin is posing as Thog ,interesting.......

[deuxhero]

Hmm, wonder how many ranks Tarquin has in disguise. Granted, +10 alone would fool the Order of No Ranks in Spot.

Wait, Durkon has True Seeing on. Wonder what the "real" appearance of Tarquins armor is.

[creepyeye]

Wouldn't that be a cross class skill for fighters?

[warnabrother718]

Well it seems to me that Tarquin is pretty much the OoTS version of Revolver Ocelot, so chronic backstabbing disorder (and a ridiculous survival rate) is a sure bet. My only question is what makes you think that he values Malack more than his own son? T and M also bear more than a passing resemblence to Darth Vader and Palpatine, and when push came to shove, Vader pushed and shoved the Emperor down a pit to his death on behalf of his son. Who's to say its not the arrangement between Tarquin and Malack that's the suspicious part? Nale already showed that he's willing to kill the entire order with the two previous acid attacks, and Tarquin doesn't seem too broken up about it. Besides, would a magnificent bastard like Tarquin really not have a Plan C for dealing with situations like this when they arrive? Malack might be the one on the wrong side of a stunning betrayal when all is said and done.

[Man on Fire]

Do you guys think that in one on one fight Roy will be able to recognize this is not Thog?

[NerfTW]

THOG SMASHES! is way too good grammer! :P


More like thog smash? :3

Yes, that was the joke.

[Belril Duskwalk]

Do you guys think that in one on one fight Roy will be able to recognize this is not Thog?

Depends on Tarquin's style in combat. If his combat method is all sheer brute force and raw muscle I'd say no, Roy won't catch on. If Tarquin fights smarter, takes advantage of his surroundings and such, then yes I think Roy is going to quickly start wondering how Thog lost his Int penalty.

[Beanjamish]

Yessssssssss!
This is a fun page.

[Smolder]

Do you guys think that in one on one fight Roy will be able to recognize this is not Thog?

His inability to Berserk like Thog might be a tip off. That, or Tarquin may forget to use only lowercase letters in his word bubbles.

:thog: thog not impressed by old man.

[Mr. Pants]

:smallconfused: Since when did :thog: has a flying prehistoric mount?

[Math_Mage]

:smallconfused: Since when did :thog: has a flying prehistoric mount?

The Order will probably assume Nale nabbed a pterodactyl from Tarquin's dinosaur zoo, not realizing that Tarquin actually commandeered the pterodactyl himself. In any event, assuming that Thog has to get the mount himself would be an obvious error.

[kickassfrog]

Just realised, as far as LG knows, V is still on the demiplane of extremely painful torture.
Especially since she didn't join in the attack.

Almost guaranteed to be the order's ace in the hole, then.

[Finagle]

It's also about how suspicious it is that Tarquin and Nale are agreeing, even though neither one is on the same side as the other.
Yeah, you're reading too much into it. The comic titles are always obviously thought of last, and are typically a glaring pun or other lame joke. Look at the history of the comic.

[Kaulguard]

Yeah, you're reading too much into it. The comic titles are always obviously thought of last, and are typically a glaring pun or other lame joke. Look at the history of the comic.

No, you are wrong on almost every point. The titles are usually extremely relevant and contain at least two meanings. Look at the history of the comic.

In this case, there is a 'suspicious agreement' between Malak and Tarquin. When Nale starts ordering his dad around, Tarquin agrees mildly, which is suspicious. Finally, the agreement between the subject and verb of the sentence "Thog Smashes!" could serve to make the OOTS suspicious.

Also, in a storyline that has proven to be planned out years in advance, and often contains references to half-forgotten one offs from months ago that can only be appreciated with knowledge of the entire arc, it is nearly impossible to read 'too much' into it.

[Commander672]

This whole charade will fall to peices the second Tarquin makes a smart move. Unless all those smart moves are all "Charge forward, Swing ax"

[Dracarot]

:nale: "Permission to hasten my inheritance granted"

Why do I get the feeling that Nale also has something up his sleeve for dear old dad as Tarquin and Malack probably have for him...

[Toy Killer]

So... Tarquin lands, I figure Durkon's not going to say he's in disguise either by being incapacitated/distracted or simply not realizing that no one else could tell it wasn't Thog.

Fight breaks out, everyone starts swinging. LG+T escape at the last moment, and I'm seeing a bit of foreshadowing on Durkon's death. I will be surprised if it's this early on, but I'm still calling it as a possibility...

[ManuelSacha]

at least now well have no more "why can they fly in the Windy cavern" and "you dont really think Nale is in charge do you?"

You mean that we can finally put the silly rumour about Nale being in charge to rest, right? RIGHT? :smallsigh:
Panel 4: ONCE AGAIN (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0822.html), Tarquin makes it abundantly clear that he's not obeying to Nale, but following his own very specific (and very disastrous for Nale) agenda.


I'm liking Malack less and less. Too much of a pushover.

Heh... ditto. :smallsigh:

[Incom]

Even if Durkon hasn't seen Tarquin's helmet, I think even if he just tells Roy the armor is glamered, he should figure it out. If not, well, Roy's fought Thog before--I don't know if Tarquin could mimic that style. And even the idea that Thog slipped away from Tarquin would suggest that he betrayed the Order.

Looking forward to the next few strips.

[Darkweave31]

Am I the only one who imagined Thog with a top hat and monocle after the last panel?

[Math_Mage]

Just realised, as far as LG knows, V is still on the demiplane of extremely painful torture.
Especially since she didn't join in the attack.

Almost guaranteed to be the order's ace in the hole, then.

I was going to point out that the LG knows V is an arcane caster capable of casting Plane Shift...but then, who knows if V would have the opportunity to prepare spells on the Demiplane of Extremely Painful Torture? So, point, I guess.


:nale: "Permission to hasten my inheritance granted"

Why do I get the feeling that Nale also has something up his sleeve for dear old dad as Tarquin and Malack probably have for him...

My impression is that Nale is just swinging and hoping, whereas Tarquin and Malack have plans.

[Gift Jeraff]

Nale probably knows that V does not have conjuration spells. They spent 3 days walking to Azure City after Wizard Guy died. And Tarquin may have deduced that as well (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0760.html).

EDIT: However, they may have noticed that the tracking rune on the carpet wasn't moving for about a day, and Tarquin/Malack/Invisi-Nale heard the OOTS discuss retrieving V (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0818.html).

[Yendor]

I was going to point out that the LG knows V is an arcane caster capable of casting Plane Shift...but then, who knows if V would have the opportunity to prepare spells on the Demiplane of Extremely Painful Torture? So, point, I guess.

V can't cast Plane Shift, because it's in her barred school, which Zz'dtri would certainly know.

[Ellye]

Well it seems to me that Tarquin is pretty much the OoTS version of Revolver Ocelot, so chronic backstabbing disorder (and a ridiculous survival rate) is a sure bet. My only question is what makes you think that he values Malack more than his own son? T and M also bear more than a passing resemblence to Darth Vader and Palpatine, and when push came to shove, Vader pushed and shoved the Emperor down a pit to his death on behalf of his son. Who's to say its not the arrangement between Tarquin and Malack that's the suspicious part? Nale already showed that he's willing to kill the entire order with the two previous acid attacks, and Tarquin doesn't seem too broken up about it. Besides, would a magnificent bastard like Tarquin really not have a Plan C for dealing with situations like this when they arrive? Malack might be the one on the wrong side of a stunning betrayal when all is said and done.Star Wars references aside, those are my feelings too.

Nale is his own soon after all. And Tarquin seems to genuinely care about his sons. He does seem to value Malack high as the powerful ally that he is, but I don't think he is truly planning on letting Malack kill Nale.

Tarquin probably already has a plan to let Nale "escape" somehow. I'd guess it's a plan that makes Nale believe that he managed to flee via his own prowess, and that makes Malack thinks that Tarquin really did try to stop Nale from escaping. In the end, it will be back to status quo for Malack.

[Math_Mage]

V can't cast Plane Shift, because it's in her barred school, which Zz'dtri would certainly know.

Oh, herp, sorry. LG knows that OotS can get V back on the right plane. Technicality. :smallredface: Point remains: no reason for them to assume V would be stuck.

[Gift Jeraff]

I'd guess it's a plan that makes Nale believe that he managed to flee via his own prowess, and that makes Malack thinks that Tarquin really did try to stop Nale from escaping. In the end, it will be back to status quo for Malack.That makes sense and seems like the most Tarquin-ish plan suggested so far.

[Tobimaro]

Like the application of what is an otherwise useless armor enhancement. Now, if the IFCC can somehow find a way to make Marvelous Pigments useful, I'll be mightily impressed. :smallbiggrin:

[Anarion]

Great comic, moved the story along, effects were pretty cool, and I'm impressed by Tarquin as always.

One thing I want to point out is that Tarquin was being very careful with his word choice. He assumed that Nale's goal was to drive them back, rather than kill them and requested permission to engage, but has said nothing about actually harming any of them. I wonder what he intends.

[Forikroder]

Great comic, moved the story along, effects were pretty cool, and I'm impressed by Tarquin as always.

One thing I want to point out is that Tarquin was being very careful with his word choice. He assumed that Nale's goal was to drive them back, rather than kill them and requested permission to engage, but has said nothing about actually harming any of them. I wonder what he intends.

to personally ram his axe down roys throat

i dont get why people keep trying to give Tarquin and Malack redeeming qulities

[Ellye]

i dont get why people keep trying to give Tarquin and Malack redeeming qulitiesIt's not about redeeming qualities.
It's about the OotS being more useful to him alive and relatively well.

[Forikroder]

It's not about redeeming qualities.
It's about the OotS being more useful to him alive and relatively well.

how is OoTS useful to him? there trying to guard the gate, hes trying to take it

[Tobimaro]

Like the application of what is an otherwise useless armor enhancement. Now, if the IFCC can somehow find a way to make Marvelous Pigments useful, I'll be mightily impressed. :smallbiggrin:

[LadyEowyn]

Tarquin's not going to want to kill them before Team Evil show up. He'll want the Order around to fight, or at least distract, Team Evil while he goes in to try to gain control of the gate. If he assumes Team Evil are the stronger side (which is a good literary assumption - the bad guys are also more powerful), then having the Order around benefits him up until the time when Team Evil are killed or driven off.

[rewinn]

Tarquin's not going to want to kill them before Team Evil show up. He'll want the Order around to fight, or at least distract, Team Evil while he goes in to try to gain control of the gate. ....

... which raised the interesting point: how does T plan to control the gate?
If he knows only what Nale knows, he may not realize that it requires more than physical control of the territory around the Gate to do anything useful ... or destructive ... with it.

[LadyEowyn]

Malack's a divine caster and Zz'dtri's an arcane caster, so if he knew the ritual he'd be able to control the gate.

[Chessgeek]

... which raised the interesting point: how does T plan to control the gate?
If he knows only what Nale knows, he may not realize that it requires more than physical control of the territory around the Gate to do anything useful ... or destructive ... with it.

Comic 378, last panel.
Nale knows quite a bit about the importance of the gates.
As for the destructive ability, I don't think it exists. The "ritual" was to give The Dark One control of the gate, so he could help the goblins.

[ti'esar]

Does Tarquin even know that Team Evil is going to show up? I don't see how.

[Yendor]

Does Tarquin even know that Team Evil is going to show up? I don't see how.

Nale should know that Team Evil is heading for Girard's Gate next. If anyone has up-to-date info on them, it's probably Qarr, via the IFCC.

[Smolder]

I just hope that if the Order somehow manages to defeat the new and improved LG 2.0 they get enough experience to level up again. It's been a long time since they ding'd and they'll need to close the level gap before going up against Team Evil.

[ti'esar]

Nale should know that Team Evil is heading for Girard's Gate next. If anyone has up-to-date info on them, it's probably Qarr, via the IFCC.

The question is whether that information is making it from them to Nale (and from him to Tarquin, for that matter, although I doubt Nale would really be able to hide it).

[Kish]

Malack's a divine caster and Zz'dtri's an arcane caster, so if he knew the ritual he'd be able to control the gate.
...Really? Y'might want to reread the strip in which Tsukiko died.

[Ravens_cry]

Heh, the last two panels really crack me up.:smallbiggrin:

[Forikroder]

Nale should know that Team Evil is heading for Girard's Gate next. If anyone has up-to-date info on them, it's probably Qarr, via the IFCC.

Quarr been awol since the colliseum, besides the IFCC has no reason to give Nale any info as far as we know Nale has no idea about the IFCCs existance, Sabine didnt say to nale she was plane shifting to talk to her superiors so shes hiding the fact shes there on orders

[Math_Mage]

Tarquin knows there is a ritual to control the Gate, but he doesn't know that it grants control of the Gate to TDO regardless of the caster. See here (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0821.html). It's likely Nale doesn't know, or hasn't told Tarquin, just how strong Team Evil is. Just clearing up those points.

[Forikroder]

Tarquin knows there is a ritual to control the Gate, but he doesn't know that it grants control of the Gate to TDO regardless of the caster. See here (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0821.html). It's likely Nale doesn't know, or hasn't told Tarquin, just how strong Team Evil is. Just clearing up those points.

ya Nale has really been milking his association with Xykon since Nale was jsut some hired help that Xykon forgot about soon after

i mean has team evil ever directly referenced anyone in the Linear guild ever?

[Snails]

Tarquin knows there is a ritual to control the Gate, but he doesn't know that it grants control of the Gate to TDO regardless of the caster. See here (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0821.html). It's likely Nale doesn't know, or hasn't told Tarquin, just how strong Team Evil is. Just clearing up those points.

Tarquin seems to be charging in without knowing the lay of the land as well I would expect. Neither Nale nor Tarquin have the slightest idea how to gain control over a Gate, only that it could be done...theoretically. Rushing in does not seem very wise.

I guess he is hoping to use OotS as cannon fodder still, and he wants them driven down into the ziggurat. But tossing acid at them has had the opposite effect so far. (Good job, Nale!)

[Joerg]

Tarquin seems to be charging in without knowing the lay of the land as well I would expect. Neither Nale nor Tarquin have the slightest idea how to gain control over a Gate, only that it could be done...theoretically. Rushing in does not seem very wise.


Why are you assuming that Tarquin wants to control the Gate and not to destroy it?

[Math_Mage]

Why are you assuming that Tarquin wants to control the Gate and not to destroy it?

Possible, dramatically interesting twist, and fits T's habit of keeping a low profile; however, hastens the presumed end of the world, and eliminates a potentially valuable tool. I thought about it, but my instincts say otherwise.

[ManuelSacha]

I didn't read every single post, so I'm not sure if somebody pointed this out already... but did you notice that, although Tarquin's armor and helmet now look different, his own axe is still pretty unique and iconic? I'm betting Roy or Elan will figure out who he really is based on that detail.

[Wonton]

By the way Tarquin stressed the phrase "end of the mission," I'm willing to venture a guess and say that he's still planning on betraying Nale to Malack at the end of all this little adventure :smallmad:

Definitely the first thing I thought of. What else would Malack specifically be looking forward to? And from what we know of Tarquin, he would welcome the opportunity to betray and dispose of a potentially dangerous enemy, even if it is his own son.


It's obvious Malack is going to turn on Nale. Tarquin is still trying to play it both ways. The "end of the mission" line is deliberately ambiguous.

This is a good point though. If in the end Tarquin decides that Nale is still more useful to him than Malack, he'll betray Malack just as easily.

[fergo]

I didn't read every single post, so I'm not sure if somebody pointed this out already... but did you notice that, although Tarquin's armor and helmet now look different, his own axe is still pretty unique and iconic? I'm betting Roy or Elan will figure out who he really is based on that detail.

Have they seen him with the axe?

The only time we've seen it is in flashbacks, if I recall correctly :smallconfused:.

[Rothgar]

Nale should know that Team Evil is heading for Girard's Gate next. If anyone has up-to-date info on them, it's probably Qarr, via the IFCC.

Hmmm, I'm not sure that Nale knows anything about Team Evil's current whereabouts, his association with them ended well before strip #100 and the LG has been doing it's own thing ever since.

... on the other hand, the IFCC probably does know where Team Evil is and if Sabine was privy to that information then she might have told Nale off-panel.

I'm expecting the LG to be caught flat-footed when they do show up. Not sure when that'll be, the "homework" they were going to do on the astral plane sounded pretty open-ended.

[the Riddler]

I just knew Tarquin used Daedric Weapons.

[Jay R]

Why do they bring the kobold along? What use is he in fight?

We'll never know until we see him in a fight, of course.


to personally ram his axe down roys throat

i dont get why people keep trying to give Tarquin and Malack redeeming qulities

By contrast, I don't get why people assume that he's planning to engage the enemy, just because he said he planned to engage the enemy? Given his history with Tyrinar, the Empress, the elven ambassador & Enor and Gannji, I expect people to eventually learn not to take him at face value.

I'm not trying to give him redeeming qualities; I'm expecting him to use the villainous qualities he has actually shown he has.

He has just arranged to get away from Nale's party near Elan's, where Nale cannot hear him, in a supposed fight that a fighter cannot win. My first assumption is that he's not planning to fight.

[t209]

I just knew Tarquin used Daedric Weapons.
Rich (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=13027761&postcount=22) has never played or plan to play Skyrim. It's just a coincidence
Here's a strip (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0725.html) on "Daedric" weapon. (1 year before skyrim!)
How many of you are hoping for Battle of Five Armies references in Girard's arc (enemies form together against their common foe thingy)? (I hope Hinjo will be like Gandalf in the Hobbit
HALT! THE TEAM EVIL IS COMING!)

[Kish]

I am most definitely not hoping for any ripoffs from Tolkien, or any other source you've referenced for that matter.

I might be hoping for Rich to come and explain to you that when he told you to quit shoehorning Skyrim references into everything, he didn't mean just Skyrim.

[Mutant Sheep]

Rich (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=13027761&postcount=22) has never played or plan to play Skyrim. It's just a coincidence
Here's a strip (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0725.html) on "Daedric" weapon. (1 year before skyrim!)

How many of you are hoping for *random direct story element or plot action from something t209 has recently discovered,= that makes very little sense merged with OotS.)

Well, it's not a coincidence, it's just that magic items are commonly powerful weapons in fantasy settings that smart people use.:smalltongue: And evil people enjoy evil, red, spiky armor. (See: most major villains who ever wear armor and/or use a sword. Ever.:smallbiggrin:) And as both Elder Scrolls *insert whatever number the Deadric's showed up in* and OOTS are fantasy settings, it makes sense they have evil, red, spiky weapons for their bad guys.

Edit: Kish said it better than I could. Thank you. xD
Edit2: Kish has again said the thing I've been wanting to say for months, but far better than I could. Darn.:smalltongue:

[t209]

Well, it's not a coincidence, it's just that magic items are commonly powerful weapons in fantasy settings that smart people use.:smalltongue: And evil people enjoy evil, red, spiky armor. (See: most major villains who ever wear armor and/or use a sword. Ever.:smallbiggrin:)

You're right, it looks like Daedric (http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Daedric_War_Axe_(Skyrim)) Weapons (http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Daedric_Battleaxe).
Note: I use two axes to show this babies to those who do not play skyrim.

[Kish]

Note: I use two axes to show this babies to those who do not play skyrim.
Fellow, we don't want to see things about Skyrim. If we did, we'd be posting on the Skyrim forum. Given that the one media source you appear to have no interest in at all is OotS, I realize that "post on the forum for the media source you're interested in reading and talking about" seems like strange alien behavior to you, but still that's what most people on this forum are trying to do.

[ti'esar]

Fellow, we don't want to see things about Skyrim. If we did, we'd be posting on the Skyrim forum. Given that the one media source you appear to have no interest in at all is OotS, I realize that "post on the forum for the media source you're interested in reading and talking about" seems like strange alien behavior to you, but still that's what most people on this forum are trying to do.

Bravo, sir.

[Forikroder]

We'll never know until we see him in a fight, of course.



By contrast, I don't get why people assume that he's planning to engage the enemy, just because he said he planned to engage the enemy? Given his history with Tyrinar, the Empress, the elven ambassador & Enor and Gannji, I expect people to eventually learn not to take him at face value.

I'm not trying to give him redeeming qualities; I'm expecting him to use the villainous qualities he has actually shown he has.

He has just arranged to get away from Nale's party near Elan's, where Nale cannot hear him, in a supposed fight that a fighter cannot win. My first assumption is that he's not planning to fight.

he has no reason to try diplomacy with the order first, most likely hes thought of a way (or thinks it will go that way anyway) to engage Roy and only roy and have the rest of the order work on engaging the rest of the linear guild

[Winter]

You're right, it looks like Daedric (http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Daedric_War_Axe_(Skyrim)) Weapons (http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Daedric_Battleaxe).
Note: I use two axes to show this babies to those who do not play skyrim.

You do realise that Skyrim (Elder Scrolls in general) is utter cliché fantasy*? So if something in fantasy, like product X**, looks like Skyrim, it probably has to do with X being cliché fantasy as well.

So the progression is:
Cliché Fantasy -> Skyrim.
Cliché Fantasy -> Order of the Stick.

And not:
Skyrim -> Order of the Stick.

Seeing a "Badass Evil Battleaxe" somewhere you like and saying "hey, this is the source for all other Badass Evil Battleaxes" is just logically wrong. Badass Evil Battleaxes have been drawn this way since the genre of fantasy was invented (which in case of D&D are the 70s). Face it: Stuff looks like in Skyrim because Skyrim is utter cliché, not because they invented new stuff in regard to how "badass weapons and armours" look.


* I liked playing it, so I'm not bashing it.
** In this case, let's say "product X" is "Order of the Stick".

[Euodiachloris]

You do realise that Skyrim (Elder Scrolls in general) is utter cliché fantasy? So if something in fantasy, like product X, looks like Skyrim, it probably has to do with X being cliché fantasy as well.

<insert Hallelujah Chorus here>

Also, Kish: you get a blown kiss from me, whether you want it or not. :smallwink:

I am sick to the back teeth of people dragging other works into OotS discussions simply because they think it's cool or something. Yes, discuss tropes with examples when it is highly relevant to your argument about a certain Sticky point and when that argument is not "wow: just spotted another one!".

Speaking of tropes... this one is relevant: Older Than They Think (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/OlderThanTheyThink). If in doubt, check it out before you gush. :smallwink:

Please. :smallsmile: <hugs in advance>

[Jay R]

he has no reason to try diplomacy with the order first,...

I do not know this, since I don't know what his plan is. Could you please show me which strip his plan was revealed, rather than the false face he's shown people so far?


...most likely hes thought of a way (or thinks it will go that way anyway) to engage Roy and only roy and have the rest of the order work on engaging the rest of the linear guild

"Most likely" only on the assumption that he actually intends to attack the OotS. The only evidence for that is that he announced that he would do so. But he has never been shown to announce his plan in advance to his dupe/leader before. Why do you assume he will do something totally unlike everything we know about him?

I will state up front that I don't know what he's doing, and I don't know what his plan is, and I don't know whether he has a reason to talk to the OotS right now. But since what he has always been shown to do well is hide his plans and talk well, I can't rule it out.

[Forikroder]

I do not know this, since I don't know what his plan is. Could you please show me which strip his plan was revealed, rather than the false face he's shown people so far?

theres a big difference between knowing someone is good at deception and everything they say is a lie


"Most likely" only on the assumption that he actually intends to attack the OotS. The only evidence for that is that he announced that he would do so. But he has never been shown to announce his plan in advance to his dupe/leader before. Why do you assume he will do something totally unlike everything we know about him?

I will state up front that I don't know what he's doing, and I don't know what his plan is, and I don't know whether he has a reason to talk to the OotS right now. But since what he has always been shown to do well is hide his plans and talk well, I can't rule it out.

okay i dont see any point continuing this argument if all your going to say is"well Tarquin never does what he saids hes gonna do so hes obviously not gonna do what we think hes going to do

if he wanted something other thena fight why bother pretending to be Thog? Nale didnt even realise Tarquin had the ability to change his armour he assumed that Tarquin would be found out as soon as he got close so why did he bother making himself look and sound like Thog?

[St Fan]

I just hope that if the Order somehow manages to defeat the new and improved LG 2.0 they get enough experience to level up again. It's been a long time since they ding'd and they'll need to close the level gap before going up against Team Evil.

They have leveled plenty, it's just not shown explicitely in the comic unless there's another joke to milk out of it (like Belkar getting drained the minute he pinged), otherwise it's not interesting and happens off-screen.

Check out the Class and Level Geekery thread for an estimate on how frequently they leveled.

[Icedaemon]

You do realise that Skyrim (Elder Scrolls in general) is utter cliché fantasy*? So if something in fantasy, like product X**, looks like Skyrim, it probably has to do with X being cliché fantasy as well.

So the progression is:
Cliché Fantasy -> Skyrim.
Cliché Fantasy -> Order of the Stick.

And not:
Skyrim -> Order of the Stick.

Seeing a "Badass Evil Battleaxe" somewhere you like and saying "hey, this is the source for all other Badass Evil Battleaxes" is just logically wrong. Badass Evil Battleaxes have been drawn this way since the genre of fantasy was invented (which in case of D&D are the 70s). Face it: Stuff looks like in Skyrim because Skyrim is utter cliché, not because they invented new stuff in regard to how "badass weapons and armours" look.


* I liked playing it, so I'm not bashing it.
** In this case, let's say "product X" is "Order of the Stick".

While I do agree with your point in general, I would like to mention that the (arguably) best Elder Scrolls game, Morrowind, had a good degree of originality.

[t209]

I just knew Tarquin used Daedric Weapons.

the Riddler started to skyrim stuff. I was trying to show him that it is not skyrim and it is just coincidence by showing older comic strip of his axe.
(though it glows like Daedric weapon though)

[Winter]

While I do agree with your point in general, I would like to mention that the (arguably) best Elder Scrolls game, Morrowind, had a good degree of originality.

That might be. I just thought Morrowind was utterly boring and bland, so I cannot comment on that. What I do can comment on: The Elder Scrolls serious of course has unique ideas.
But how "awesome" and "evil" armour and weapons look, what basic classes (warrior, mage, thief) etc are, how the world works is utter, utter clichéd fantasy (this has nothing to do with if it's a good or nice-to-play implementation).

I'd like to get over this, though. Just having "some nice axe" (or other artistic things) is very probably not a reference to anything. There simply are not that many ways how to draw (or 3D-model for this matter) "awesome looking weapons" or "awesome looking armour" in clichéd fantasy settings (which OotS is and which does not say if it's good or bad). Evil are black, red glowing, craggy with spikes and whatnot, good are shiny, white, with gold and silver. And that was it.

[CoffeeIncluded]

I am most definitely not hoping for any ripoffs from Tolkien, or any other source you've referenced for that matter.

I might be hoping for Rich to come and explain to you that when he told you to quit shoehorning Skyrim references into everything, he didn't mean just Skyrim.

THANK YOU, KISH. Seriously, t209, stop it. You're doing it everywhere on the forum, even on my thread, and it's seriously getting annoying. Not everything is a reference to everything else! Do you see me going on and on about Pokemon and Zelda every chance I get? Did you see me trying to shoehorn in Tales of the Abyss references every chance I got right after beating the game? Did you see me make thread after thread comparing Elan and Nale to Luke and Asch based off of one single similarity that isn't a similarity at all? Did you see me going on and on about the tiniest little similarity between two works that are going to have similarities no matter what, because there's only so many tropes in the world?! No? Then stop it!

I'm sorry to sound snippy, but you've been doing this for months and it's getting on everybody's nerves. Nobody likes it. It's not that we don't want you here, but just stop shoving random references into anything tangentially related, because it's really, really annoying!

[Finagle]

Fellow, we don't want to see things about Skyrim. If we did, we'd be posting on the Skyrim forum. Given that the one media source you appear to have no interest in at all is OotS, I realize that "post on the forum for the media source you're interested in reading and talking about" seems like strange alien behavior to you, but still that's what most people on this forum are trying to do.

http://applaude.me/applause.gif http://insanity.blogs.lchwelcome.org/files/2011/03/Applause_meter_1-300x225.jpg

[DougTheHead]

THANK YOU, KISH. Seriously, t209, stop it. You're doing it everywhere on the forum, even on my thread, and it's seriously getting annoying. Not everything is a reference to everything else! Do you see me going on and on about Pokemon and Zelda every chance I get? Did you see me trying to shoehorn in Tales of the Abyss references every chance I got right after beating the game? Did you see me make thread after thread comparing Elan and Nale to Luke and Asch based off of one single similarity that isn't a similarity at all? Did you see me going on and on about the tiniest little similarity between two works that are going to have similarities no matter what, because there's only so many tropes in the world?! No? Then stop it!

I'm sorry to sound snippy, but you've been doing this for months and it's getting on everybody's nerves. Nobody likes it. It's not that we don't want you here, but just stop shoving random references into anything tangentially related, because it's really, really annoying!

This pent-up frustration about something finally exploding into full-on rage is a great reference to Envy, the 2004 comedy starring Ben Stiller and Jack Black. It's also a pretty good reference to Planes, Trains, and Automobiles, the 1987 comedy starring Steve Martin and John Candy.:smalltongue:

[fergo]

This pent-up frustration about something finally exploding into full-on rage is a great reference to Envy, the 2004 comedy starring Ben Stiller and Jack Black. It's also a pretty good reference to Planes, Trains, and Automobiles, the 1987 comedy starring Steve Martin and John Candy.:smalltongue:

:smallbiggrin: Fantastic :smallbiggrin:

[FujinAkari]

the Riddler started to skyrim stuff. I was trying to show him that it is not skyrim and it is just coincidence by showing older comic strip of his axe.
(though it glows like Daedric weapon though)

No... the Riddler mentioned Daedric weaponry, a term which has existed for at least 600 years (I believe its earliest source was Edmund Spencer's The Faerie Queene. You are the one assuming that the term originated with Skyrim even though, as mentioned, very very very little actually originated there, it is simply a very detailed setting which embodies the generic fantasy genre.

[wildwood]

So V is stuck in a pit a few levels down, distraught and out-of-sorts. (Hard to say just how stuck just yet.)

Wouldn't this be an interesting moment for Qarr to show up, taunting V with visions of the Order desperately in need of help? I wonder if this might be "phase 2" of the IFCC's plans for V.

[Caivs]

Reading Kish and the others' posts make me feel there is still hope in this world.

[Forikroder]

So V is stuck in a pit a few levels down, distraught and out-of-sorts. (Hard to say just how stuck just yet.)

Wouldn't this be an interesting moment for Qarr to show up, taunting V with visions of the Order desperately in need of help? I wonder if this might be "phase 2" of the IFCC's plans for V.

i dont know about you, but im pretty sure the last thing Quar wants is to get suck in a small box with V

IMO the IFCC doesnt do a single thing to the gate, they literally havent interefered with ay of the other gates and the only actual interference was tricking V into attackign Xykon

[Euodiachloris]

Wouldn't this be an interesting moment for Qarr to show up, taunting V with visions of the Order desperately in need of help? I wonder if this might be "phase 2" of the IFCC's plans for V.

Absolutely no idea. <major shrug>

I've no idea exactly how V is going to come back into play, but I fear it might be too late (again) to actually do anything to actively help out. Which is not going to help kir mental state any. Poor bunny. :smallsigh:

[BaronOfHell]

Do you see me going on and on about Pokemon and Zelda every chance I get?

But you just wrote about both Pokemon and Zelda in this recent post of yours.:smallconfused: I even quoted the parts!

Coincidence? I THINK NOT!!!


:smalltongue:

[t209]

No... the Riddler mentioned Daedric weaponry, a term which has existed for at least 600 years (I believe its earliest source was Edmund Spencer's The Faerie Queene. You are the one assuming that the term originated with Skyrim even though, as mentioned, very very very little actually originated there, it is simply a very detailed setting which embodies the generic fantasy genre.

Now that clears up everything.
Sorry everybody, I thought he meant the one from skyrim.

[Steward]

So V is stuck in a pit a few levels down, distraught and out-of-sorts. (Hard to say just how stuck just yet.)


Er, what makes you think that Vaarsuvius is down a few levels? (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0012.html) Did he get hit with some kind of negative-energy trap or something?

[jere7my]

No... the Riddler mentioned Daedric weaponry, a term which has existed for at least 600 years (I believe its earliest source was Edmund Spencer's The Faerie Queene.

I don't believe that's true — do you have a link to any non-Skyrim / non-Elder Scrolls / non-Morrowind use of "Deadric" or "Deadra"? 'Cos I can't find one. I'd never heard the term before, and I know a thing or two about myths of the British Isles.

[Chaotic Queen]

Can we please stop talking about Elder Scrolls? As much as I'm a fan, this isn't the place for it.

[VanIsleKnight]

Alright, here's my guess on what's happening here with Nale. He isn't -completely- stupid, and should at least know two very important things going into this fight. Malack wants him dead and Tarquin can only hold that back for so long, and the OoTS is very, very good/lucky when it comes to fights with The Linear Guild. I'm thinking that Nale initiated the fight early to give the OoTS a better fighting chance so that in the chaos, either he and Sabine can escape and/or Malack (and possibly Tarquin) will die or be subdued.

It really is Nale's best hope that his enemies defeat his temporary allies for surviving this entire ordeal, because a victory against the OoTS would not lead to a long and healthy future for him. A defeat would though, especially if Nale can get Malack to blow through a bunch of spells and effort on -them- while he and Sabine keep their strength up by mostly keeping out of the fight.

I actually really am rooting for Nale in this to somehow come out ahead over his father, because it would be even more poetic in my mind if the evil mastermind Magnificent Bastard Tarquin was taken out and outplayed by the son he not only doesn't favour, but also isn't actively planning on being defeated by.

Plus it'd be funny.

[Euodiachloris]

I don't believe that's true — do you have a link to any non-Skyrim / non-Elder Scrolls / non-Morrowind use of "Deadric" or "Deadra"? 'Cos I can't find one. I'd never heard the term before, and I know a thing or two about myths of the British Isles.

I take it as a bastardisation of duende (with, maybe deva thrown in), but I could be wrong. And, for that, you're looking in mainly Iberia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duende_(mythology)), not Britannia.

But, as I said, I could be wrong. :smallsmile:

[Goosefeather]

I take it as a bastardisation of duende (with, maybe deva thrown in), but I could be wrong. And, for that, you're looking in mainly Iberia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duende_(mythology)), not Britannia.

But, as I said, I could be wrong. :smallsmile:

I don't think that works, etymologically speaking. The vowel shifts are all wrong.


Apparently, 'duende' comes from Old Spanish 'duen de casa', as in 'master of the house' (like modern 'don' and 'dueño', I guess). Huh, you learn something new every day!

[t209]

Guys can we move on to the main story of OOTS? Do you think Roy will see that it is Tarquin (he knows that Thog never wears a helmet)?
Do you think it will be a test by Tarquin (he's genre savvy and have more plans than we saw)?

[Rothgar]

So V is stuck in a pit a few levels down, distraught and out-of-sorts. (Hard to say just how stuck just yet.)

Wouldn't this be an interesting moment for Qarr to show up, taunting V with visions of the Order desperately in need of help? I wonder if this might be "phase 2" of the IFCC's plans for V.

Hmmm... interesting possibility :)
My hunch is that the main thing keeping V in that pit is the fact that V's unconscious. But who knows, maybe it'll have other features that make it hard for him to escape.

[Kenage]

At least 3 members of the Order have seen Tarquin in his helmet (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0722.html), so True Seeing really could hamper things if our friendly dwarf has a chance to point it out.

[t209]

At least 3 members of the Order have seen Tarquin in his helmet (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0722.html), so True Seeing really could hamper things if our friendly dwarf has a chance to point it out.

I think he will test Roy on his ability (fighting, wits, and intelligence). We still need to know what is motives are since there are many things that he has.

[ShikomeKidoMi]

Hmmm... interesting possibility :)
My hunch is that the main thing keeping V in that pit is the fact that V's unconscious. But who knows, maybe it'll have other features that make it hard for him to escape.

Yeah, I agree Varsuvius is probably not awake enough to see visions from Quar (the IFFC leaders, on the other hand, probably have dream magic, but big restrictions on when they can use it) or the whole trap would be negated by casting fly and disintegrating the block on top of the pit.

And it fits with that last panel of V just laying there immobile.

Well, unconscious or dead, but Roy died not that long ago, so I'm leaning towards unconscious.

Edit: Huh, somehow that triple posted, but I think I've deleted the extras now.

[Wardog]

The funniest bit of this strip for me is Sabine not objecting to being called vapid.

[J's]

<insert Hallelujah Chorus here>

Also, Kish: you get a blown kiss from me, whether you want it or not. :smallwink:

I am sick to the back teeth of people dragging other works into OotS discussions simply because they think it's cool or something.

Speaking of tropes... this one is relevant: Older Than They Think (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/OlderThanTheyThink). If in doubt, check it out before you gush. :smallwink:

Please. :smallsmile: <hugs in advance>

Oh good, thank you, but I think your trope mention was too subtle, it seems to have whooshed. And why do people like the deadric? much too fancy, feels like it is for those that need attention. I'm am much more vimesian in my armor choices.


Back to on topic, the points that made me smile were the hasten my inheritance and last panel. As for Tarquin's plans it is much too soon for me to hazard a guess. While not everything he says is a lie he does play his cards too close to his chest, he hasn't given any of his plans away in his actions or comments. So any guess are likely to end up looking like the aftermath of a blindfolded darts contest.

[Toy Killer]

As a Prominent Professional arch-villain of an entire continent, I can't believe Tarquin to have an escape rope handy to get him out of conflict once, he has a chance to go toe to toe with Roy personally. But lets assess the situation at hand:

Tarquin is dropping down to the heroes, leaving Z, Kilkil, Sabrine, Malack and the man he wants to kill, Nale.

The OotS has everyone except V, in a tactically unfavorable scenario. Haley can't attack anyone, except Tarquin on account of the sun. Roy is going to assume Tarquin is Thog (why else put the glamer on his armor otherwise when one of the teammates has True Seeing up, plot wise?) Durkon can attack in hand to hand, but is the only spell casting they have right now (*sigh* except Elan, but he hardly counts).

So, nothing is stopping Z from coming in closer, and Z is probably going to be heading off with Durkon (Last time he went head to head with Haley, he lost and I don't think he's really done well against arrows anyway). if Z goes, nothing is standing between Nale and Malack (Just keep in mind, that no matter how the cookie crumbled, this was likely an inevitability). It's only a matter of time until Kilkil is spotted by Belkar and they are preoccupied.

If Malack Dismissal's Sabrine, leaves Nale to fall, and charges down with him. Roy, figuring he can take on Thog by himself (He literally, just did), tells Elan and Haley to help Durkon, Kilkil and Belkar are off in a comical chase scene...

It plays directly into the hands of Tarquin.

Tarquin knows his son Nale inherited the villain's ability to survive until you see the body, and fulfills his idea of his son be the recurring villain for Elan. Elan had a plan that he refused to tell anyone about, which just really gave him a card in his sleeve to hand out when he needs to have the right tool at hand when necessary (such as when his father does something obviously evil, say, let the heroes do the work only to usurp the profit of that work? Like the work that the heroes were obviously heading out to do?). and when Durkon announces that Thog is actually Tarquin, Elan Jumps to action saying he knew his father would show up, they re-concentrate their efforts against Tarquin... At which point Tarquin quips that a good Villain always has an escape plan.

Nobody died except probably Kilkil, but he was just an accountant anyway and was more then worth the ability to distract the homicidal hobbit for great story value. everyone else has escape means available (From Nale's invisibility, to Z's teleport). And it sets us up for seeing how the team can fare without V, who is being built up to be a Villain later...

Maybe this is all just mad ramblings of someone with the hobby of killing toys, maybe it's more spot on then I would assume, but just some food for thought....:smallwink:

[Euodiachloris]

I'm am much more vimesian in my armor choices.

Well, so is Tarquin, it seems: when the chips are down, he's not afraid of camouflage, sensible or dents. Despite that axe. :smallsmile: Although, he does seem to veer towards gilt by association (without the guilt) by actual preference. :smallwink:

I'm another who actually also appreciates this rather novel means of... uh... pulling a Nob- <coughs> turncoat in battle, by the way. Certainly, being able to go chameleon means you don't have to wait for the other guy to be dead to steal his colours. Or worry about bothersome rents and bloodstains giving you away. :smallbiggrin:


While not everything he says is a lie he does play his cards too close to his chest, he hasn't given any of his plans away in his actions or comments. So any guess are likely to end up looking like the aftermath of a blindfolded darts contest.

Agreed. About the only thing you can say for certain is that he's playing his own angle, even just for this one fight. Beyond that, it's a shrug. Yes, we know what his supposed long-range plans are... well, maybe. :smallamused:

I'm actually enjoying the whole father-son hate/love/contest/rivalry/thing going on between him and Nale, as well. :smallcool:


Nobody died except probably Kilkil, but he was just an accountant anyway and was more then worth the ability to distract the homicidal hobbit for great story value. everyone else has escape means available (From Nale's invisibility, to Z's teleport). And it sets us up for seeing how the team can fare without V, who is being built up to be a Villain later...

Until we see how fantastic or rubbish Kilkil actually is, let's not predict, eh? Those draconic wings of his might well be hiding a surprise or two beyond a fantastically fast way to get to the coffee machine from his desk. :smalltongue: Or, he could be that much of a push-over. Which I, for one, doubt. :smallwink:

Yes, Tarquin has very much gone ahead for his own reasons. But, maybe not for the ones you've outlined. I guess we'll just have to wait and see. :smallsmile:

[Math_Mage]

Maybe this is all just mad ramblings of someone with the hobby of killing toys, maybe it's more spot on then I would assume, but just some food for thought....:smallwink:

If Tarquin's entire goal was to dispose of Nale and Sabine and run away, he'd have, let Malack kill Nale when he had him at fingerpoint thirty strips ago.

[Forikroder]

If Tarquin's entire goal was to dispose of Nale and Sabine and run away, he'd have, let Malack kill Nale when he had him at fingerpoint thirty strips ago.

Nales alive becuase he managed to trick tarquin into thinking he knew alot more then he did

[Math_Mage]

Nales alive becuase he managed to trick tarquin into thinking he knew alot more then he did

Toy Killer's hypothesis basically involves Tarquin not being interested in going after the Gate, which is the only reason why he would sac Nale/Sabine and use his "escape rope" at this point. In that case, nothing Nale said would particularly interest him.

Also, Nale hasn't told Tarquin that he knows anything he couldn't know. There's a Gate, there's a ritual to control the Gate, TE has it. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0821.html) Nale's proposed role in getting the ritual from TE is inflated, but that's it. No, I don't know HOW he got access to the fact of the ritual in the first place, but that doesn't mean he DOESN'T have that info.

[BriarHobbit]

What an awesome comic. The writing was great. I don't know what Tarquin has planned but am interested to find out.

[Rothgar]

Yeah, I agree Varsuvius is probably not awake enough to see visions from Quar (the IFFC leaders, on the other hand, probably have dream magic, but big restrictions on when they can use it) or the whole trap would be negated by casting fly and disintegrating the block on top of the pit.

And it fits with that last panel of V just laying there immobile.

Well, unconscious or dead, but Roy died not that long ago, so I'm leaning towards unconscious.

Edit: Huh, somehow that triple posted, but I think I've deleted the extras now.

There were no X's in V's eyes so I think there's no need to worry about death just yet :)

Hmmm.... I might have to revise my earlier opinion on V being able to get out of the pit easily. The Draketooth clan were a family of illusionists so the chances of their traps being at least moderately arcane-caster-proof are probably pretty good.

[Icedaemon]

Roy's death was not that recent - strip 443 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0443.html) was over 400 comics ago - it's been almost as long in terms of content, perhaps even time, as was between the beginning of the comic and his death. It's just that they really took their time when it came to reviving him.

Another party member death or two would not be amiss.

[Omergideon]

I do so enjoy action strips. I really do. Mostly. I still confess my personal bias against Tarquin (or more accurately wanting to see him humbled) as I do many suave and sophisticated villain types*. The elegant "just as planned" types get my goat a lot when they seem to have authorial fiat providing their success. Tarquin is not one of these of course, but I have no love of him. Still this strip more than any has made me interested in the guy to some degree. The hint of a plan between him and Malack is intriguing and the conflict within the LG is a new element. But of course one must talk specifics.

*I personally do not think him all that charming, except in an oily snake oil salesman way. Superficially. Genre Savvy yes, but not really charming.

The Good:
1) I do so praise the art in this one. The ziggurat, use of small and detailed figures, positioning and so on are excellent. The effects and overall art seem to have taken another step up in quality since the kickstarter began. But also I need to praise in particular the scattered OoTS images. They are quite well composed with no clutter but plenty of action. It is not perfect as some positioning does not flow on occasion, but each panel is good and the overall movement of the comic is good. The sizing of panels is also a strength.
2) The interactions between Nale and Malack, and Nale and Tarquin worked out very well indeed. The snark is there, and the dialogue feels crisp and realistic (and very amusing with Malacks or Nale's lines), but there is enough of a hint of something there. I do not often see or notice subtext but in this case I saw it. The disrespect was veiled but present in some cases. The hint of the future was also good.


And that is the end. No major bad elements to be mentioned. But I did feel that the whole strip was in some ways a tease for the good action of next time. Tarquin "becoming" thog is interesting, but I do not know what to expect. I will say I fear, nay dread, a scene of him taking out order members left right and centre. I would truly hate that. A fair even match would be cool to see though. But this strip alone was good, *** for sure, but lacking any real specialness or epic.

[J's]

Roy's death was not that recent - strip 443 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0443.html) was over 400 comics ago - it's been almost as long in terms of content, perhaps even time, as was between the beginning of the comic and his death. It's just that they really took their time when it came to reviving him.

Another party member death or two would not be amiss.

It feels like it would cause a massive derailment at this point. And in an anti-climatic* way. With TE on the move and the LG seeming to believe that the order know where the gate is... A 3 way fight with mass confusion and the order ultimately applying their most successful strategy seems to fit the build up better.

*I don't include Beklar's death in that, as his is expected.



I wonder how much the IIFC has shared with Sabine. If they also back, or perhaps truly back Tarquin it would explain her over-defensive reaction to anything Tarquin says. Or she is just displaying what Nale feels, which ever.

[Forikroder]

Toy Killer's hypothesis basically involves Tarquin not being interested in going after the Gate, which is the only reason why he would sac Nale/Sabine and use his "escape rope" at this point. In that case, nothing Nale said would particularly interest him.

Also, Nale hasn't told Tarquin that he knows anything he couldn't know. There's a Gate, there's a ritual to control the Gate, TE has it. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0821.html) Nale's proposed role in getting the ritual from TE is inflated, but that's it. No, I don't know HOW he got access to the fact of the ritual in the first place, but that doesn't mean he DOESN'T have that info.

i cant remember the exact strip, but i remember Nale talking to Sabine and basically saying that while he doesnt know how to control the gates, if Xykon can figure it out he can since hes so smart

im not even sure he does know for sure that team evil knows a ritual he simply assumes so since its the only logical expanation


Nale's proposed role in getting the ritual from TE is inflated, but that's it

ya he tricked tarquin into thinking he knew how to get the ritual where in reality he has no idea

[OoTLink]

Man, Tarquin doesn't look anything like Thog. Thog doesn't wear a belt, and Thog doesn't have a fancy axe. Thog doesn't NEED that stuff, he's Thog.

I think Tarquin is being a lame poop head with that move XD

[Icedaemon]

This axe looks fancy enough to me. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0788.html)

[dtilque]

Anyone else realize that this is the first battle where Roy will be using his Belt of Giant Strength. Well, not counting the barroom brawl, of course.

Will the combination of it plus his star-metal sword be enough to counter whatever enchantment is on Tarquin's axe? It'll be interesting, I'm sure.

[ShikomeKidoMi]

Anyone else realize that this is the first battle where Roy will be using his Belt of Giant Strength. Well, not counting the barroom brawl, of course.

Will the combination of it plus his star-metal sword be enough to counter whatever enchantment is on Tarquin's axe? It'll be interesting, I'm sure.

Plus whatever enchantments his armor has besides glamour. And the possibility he has two rings, instead of just one. Actually, Tarquin probably has a decent advantage, even if they might be comparable level (because ruling a country results in slow leveling), just from his access to high amounts of loot.

[Forikroder]

Plus whatever enchantments his armor has besides glamour. And the possibility he has two rings, instead of just one. Actually, Tarquin probably has a decent advantage, even if they might be comparable level (because ruling a country results in slow leveling), just from his access to high amounts of loot.

the OoTS are high level adventurers as well so theyd pretty much have comparable gear to Tarquin

[Ghosty]

Has anyone zoomed in enough to decipher the runes on T's ax yet? Just curious if the Giant left us an Easter Egg like the one for Darth V's transformation.

I also don't think that Roy will buy for one second, T's silly glamoured armor trick. I think it's more as an excuse to get out of earshot of the LG. Why? I dunno. Perhaps he's selling out his own party? Maybe he wants to cut a deal with the Order?

I don't think it's because T thinks he's bad-ass enough (or has enough gadgetry) to Miko the Order. 1 v 1 with Roy, while everyone else is preoccupied? Sure, but not 1 v the Order. That would strike me as way too risky for a power-behind-the-throne type.

[Chess Tyrant]

Has anyone zoomed in enough to decipher the runes on T's ax yet? Just curious if the Giant left us an Easter Egg like the one for Darth V's transformation.

I wasn't here when that story arc happened; what was this?

[Toy Killer]

Toy Killer's hypothesis basically involves Tarquin not being interested in going after the Gate, which is the only reason why he would sac Nale/Sabine and use his "escape rope" at this point. In that case, nothing Nale said would particularly interest him.

Also, Nale hasn't told Tarquin that he knows anything he couldn't know. There's a Gate, there's a ritual to control the Gate, TE has it. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0821.html) Nale's proposed role in getting the ritual from TE is inflated, but that's it. No, I don't know HOW he got access to the fact of the ritual in the first place, but that doesn't mean he DOESN'T have that info.

No, my Hypothesis is that he's genre savvy enough to know that Nale Will survive, and he has a valuable opportunity to test Roy out in combat when he doesn't have the public watching.

Keep in mind that Tarquin is pretty content in his lordship, and controlling the gates may add to his evilness, but all he wants is to absorb the rest of the continent For Story Purposes. If he wins, he is a king, and if he loses he becomes a legend. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0763.html) It's not about not caring for Nale, or gates or weather or not Kilkil can or cannot defeat Belkar to Tarquin. It's all about info gathering on his behalf. He want's to see how Roy holds his own, and a chance to see Nale lead a team.

I'm not saying I'm right, I'm just making a prediction based on the characters and how I see them behaving. Problem is that my perspective is not he Giant's perspective, he knows a lot more then any of us.:smallwink:

[Ghosty]

I wasn't here when that story arc happened; what was this?

It's from #635 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0635.html). I didn't realize the inscription around the newly spliced-V was actually a meaningful runic substitution, and not just gibberish (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=158869) until reading a post on the Draketooth cafeteria runes that referenced it. The translation is under the spoiler in the first page of the linked thread.

Anyway, I saw the runes on T's ax in this latest strip, saw that the date was near Easter, and wondered if the Giant had made another easter egg. I can't get my POS monitor to zoom in enough to read them.

[Math_Mage]

No, my Hypothesis is that he's genre savvy enough to know that Nale Will survive, and he has a valuable opportunity to test Roy out in combat when he doesn't have the public watching.

Keep in mind that Tarquin is pretty content in his lordship, and controlling the gates may add to his evilness, but all he wants is to absorb the rest of the continent For Story Purposes. If he wins, he is a king, and if he loses he becomes a legend. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0763.html) It's not about not caring for Nale, or gates or weather or not Kilkil can or cannot defeat Belkar to Tarquin. It's all about info gathering on his behalf. He want's to see how Roy holds his own, and a chance to see Nale lead a team.

I'm not saying I'm right, I'm just making a prediction based on the characters and how I see them behaving. Problem is that my perspective is not he Giant's perspective, he knows a lot more then any of us.:smallwink:

But this is a narrative that goes nowhere and accomplishes nothing. Sabine goes (until she Plane Shifts back), Nale reaches Presumed Dead status, Kilkil is wasted, Tarquin hasn't had a chance to see Nale do anything with the team he "leads", the team has fallen apart, he has no initiative left and less control over the situation. I fail to see how any of this BENEFITS Tarquin. It's practically the same outcome as if he'd just let Malack kill Nale to begin with, minus the pterodactyl ride out to the Windy Canyon and back.

[Toy Killer]

In the Meta, we see Tarquin in combat for the first time, reinforce the idea of his casual lordship, Malack builds tension with Nale, Nale is out of home (now knowing that he can't hide invisibly in the palace anymore. Oots is also out of a place to stay and has to continue searching (they can figure that Tarquin is now hostile to them). Tarquin is proverbially 'kicking Elan and Nale out of the nest' and with Malack alive, he can put pressure on the LG, filling in space while Team Evil expo's on what they're up to. TE, LG and Oots can have their big bad show down at the Gate.

I personally feel it's pretty sound over arching concept, You don't have to agree, and I'm not trying to argue it.

[Forikroder]

In the Meta, we see Tarquin in combat for the first time, reinforce the idea of his casual lordship, Malack builds tension with Nale, Nale is out of home (now knowing that he can't hide invisibly in the palace anymore. Oots is also out of a place to stay and has to continue searching (they can figure that Tarquin is now hostile to them). Tarquin is proverbially 'kicking Elan and Nale out of the nest' and with Malack alive, he can put pressure on the LG, filling in space while Team Evil expo's on what they're up to. TE, LG and Oots can have their big bad show down at the Gate.

I personally feel it's pretty sound over arching concept, You don't have to agree, and I'm not trying to argue it.

the OoTS never considered the palace a place to stay it was a place they were being forced to stay with tarquin holding the information hostage

same with Nale he considered the palace a safe-ish place to stay while gaining information about Girards gate

[Math_Mage]

In the Meta, we see Tarquin in combat for the first time, reinforce the idea of his casual lordship, Malack builds tension with Nale, Nale is out of home (now knowing that he can't hide invisibly in the palace anymore. Oots is also out of a place to stay and has to continue searching (they can figure that Tarquin is now hostile to them). Tarquin is proverbially 'kicking Elan and Nale out of the nest' and with Malack alive, he can put pressure on the LG, filling in space while Team Evil expo's on what they're up to. TE, LG and Oots can have their big bad show down at the Gate.

I personally feel it's pretty sound over arching concept, You don't have to agree, and I'm not trying to argue it.

Malack and Nale have already reached the breaking point. Nale has long since been kicked out of the nest, and nothing Tarquin does in your narrative works toward kicking Elan anywhere. T&M can end the LG pretty much whenever they want. And the actions you hypothesize basically knock LG out of the running for the Gate.

I'm just not getting it.

[Vreejack]

Are we sure the flying accountant is not really a red dragon disciple or something?

We already know that Belkar and Durkon are going to die during the narrative, so why not now? Their places could be taken by Malack and the "accountant."

Well, if flying scaly can actually do anything I am betting on him to be the next member. Especially if he is the one who kills Belkar.

[Forikroder]

Are we sure the flying accountant is not really a red dragon disciple or something?

We already know that Belkar and Durkon are going to die during the narrative, so why not now? Their places could be taken by Malack and the "accountant."

Well, if flying scaly can actually do anything I am betting on him to be the next member. Especially if he is the one who kills Belkar.

no we have no idea what level the kobold is, similarily we have no idea what class or how much combat potential the kobold has

for all we know he has no combat potential but its possible that hes a charmed Tarasque forcibly polymorphed into a flying kobold

[ti'esar]

I honestly have no idea why you think the Order would be replace Belkar and Durkon with the people that killed them.

[Forikroder]

I honestly have no idea why you think the Order would be replace Belkar and Durkon with the people that killed them.

i think Serini will replace Belkar after he kicks the bucket

[Kish]

If Malack was still-present and friendly to the Order after Durkon had died, Roy's course of action is obvious, and doesn't involve inviting Malack to take Durkon's place in the Order*. It goes, "Resurrect Durkon! Right now if you have the spell prepared, tomorrow if you don't, in a week** when we've gathered the diamond dust if no one here has it!"

*Although Roy might invite this presumably-Lawful-Neutral Malack to take Belkar's place in the Order after resurrecting Durkon. Theoretically. If any of this happened, which I do not expect.
**Events might lead to it taking longer than a week, but, y'know, the Order would no more just leave Durkon dead than they just left Roy dead. Belkar is another matter.

[rewinn]

the OoTS are high level adventurers as well so theyd pretty much have comparable gear to Tarquin
I dunno.

T had the opportunity to inventory everyone's stuff, and plan countermeasures to foil whatever the Order has.

I'm pretty sure that's part of the Evil Overload Standard Procedure.

[t209]

i think Serini will replace Belkar after he kicks the bucket

I think she died with the Draketooths (Hinjo said that they do not get message from her and Draketooths). Maybe she had a love child with Draketooths.
I hope Hinjo don't die yet (We face too many whams from 825 and 841).

[Chess Tyrant]

I dunno.

T had the opportunity to inventory everyone's stuff, and plan countermeasures to foil whatever the Order has.

I'm pretty sure that's part of the Evil Overload Standard Procedure.

Plus, it'd have been terribly stupid of Nale to not have Z/Malack cast all the buff spells they could before engaging.

[Rothgar]

Are we sure the flying accountant is not really a red dragon disciple or something?

We already know that Belkar and Durkon are going to die during the narrative, so why not now? Their places could be taken by Malack and the "accountant."

Well, if flying scaly can actually do anything I am betting on him to be the next member. Especially if he is the one who kills Belkar.

Hmmm, I think the jury's still out on Durkon.

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0331.html

I always figured that "posthumously" could just as easily mean "after a long and fulfilling life in the human lands".
Did anyone else get the feeling that there was chemistry between Durkon and Lien? :B (tusky-smiley-face)

As far as Belkar dying, that seems dramatic enough to be "final-battle material" to me, and even if he kicks it before then my sense is that Serini is either dead of old age like Girard or no longer fit to adventure.

[Kish]

Durkon is miserable in the human lands, and Lien has a boyfriend (bonus material in Don't Split the Party). "After a long and fulfilling life in the human lands" is unlikely, though you're correct that no time frame is defined for his death.

More of a source of optimism for me regarding Durkon is that, unlike with Belkar, the Oracle made no indication that Durkon would not be resurrected.

"Posthumously. During the quest, you will spend ten entire hours dead. When the quest is over, you will go happily home to help the dwarves there rebuild from the fulfillment of the other prophecy involving you."

[Rothgar]

Oooh, thanks for the info from DSTP (my collection doesn't go that far yet), although now that you mention it Lien having a boyfriend is referenced in one of the jokes in the "Goldenleaf" section of "Snips, Snails and Dragon tales" :B

The open-ended nature of the prophecy about Durkon was definitely what I was referring to, and those are some possibilities that had never occured to me.

I always got the sense that the longer Durkon was in human lands (and in particular, around Roy, see "On the origin of PC's") the more comfortable he became. From there I speculated that given a lifetime he *might* eventually start to enjoy himself, but I could be wrong.

Cheers! :B

[Forikroder]

I dunno.

T had the opportunity to inventory everyone's stuff, and plan countermeasures to foil whatever the Order has.

I'm pretty sure that's part of the Evil Overload Standard Procedure.

he only had the (possible) inventory on Roys and Belkars gear he has no idea what anyone else has

[Kalrany]

he only had the (possible) inventory on Roys and Belkars gear he has no idea what anyone else has
I think that I disagree. I would have figured that he has a decent idea of what the party as a whole has, and can estimate who owns what. For starters, if he chooses to look, it would make sense that there was an actual inventory for the items taken from Roy and Balker when they were sentenced to the arena. The others stayed in the palace, where they left things alone in their room(s) at various given times. I would have expected a place like the EoB to have little to no qualms of fingering through their personal belongings at any point during tOotS's stay. So IF he chose to, and I would think that he likely would, in a know-your-possible-enemy-if-you-can't-make-them-into-an-ally kind of way.
Mind you, there is no PROOF in either direction, but that was my assumption. There was plenty of opportunity to gauge the Order, and I would have expected Tarquin to do so (either himself or by having someone else do it). At the barest minimum to see the caliber of people his long-lost son is running with.

[Forikroder]

I think that I disagree. I would have figured that he has a decent idea of what the party as a whole has, and can estimate who owns what. For starters, if he chooses to look, it would make sense that there was an actual inventory for the items taken from Roy and Balker when they were sentenced to the arena. The others stayed in the palace, where they left things alone in their room(s) at various given times. I would have expected a place like the EoB to have little to no qualms of fingering through their personal belongings at any point during tOotS's stay. So IF he chose to, and I would think that he likely would, in a know-your-possible-enemy-if-you-can't-make-them-into-an-ally kind of way.
Mind you, there is no PROOF in either direction, but that was my assumption. There was plenty of opportunity to gauge the Order, and I would have expected Tarquin to do so (either himself or by having someone else do it). At the barest minimum to see the caliber of people his long-lost son is running with.

the only time they would ahve left there stuff is during the dinner party and V was there the whole time

and it would take alot of manpower to cast identify on every single item they carried to figure out what the item actually was

and haley is paranoid so i wouldnt be surprised if she took action to rpevent there stuff from being found

[rewinn]

the only time they would ahve left there stuff is during the dinner party and V was there the whole time

and it would take alot of manpower to cast identify on every single item they carried to figure out what the item actually was

and haley is paranoid so i wouldnt be surprised if she took action to rpevent there stuff from being found

Ah c'mon. If YOU were playing Tarquin, how would YOU get an inventory of the Order's stuff?

A single permanent detect-magic gadget would be a pretty obvious precaution. There was plenty of time to inventory Haley and Elan's stuff while they were washing the orangutan. And that's not counting the hairdresser's opportunity for a close look at whatever Haley was wearing, and whatever fun-and-games Elan went through with his daddy.

Also, the after-action report on the slave-freeing expedition would be full of clues as to H's and V's capabilities. Plus all that time Durkon spent in the library by himself made him vulnerable to a spy's look-over.

T is smart, very smart ... and even average gamers would have the information they needed long ago.

[Forikroder]

Ah c'mon. If YOU were playing Tarquin, how would YOU get an inventory of the Order's stuff?

A single permanent detect-magic gadget would be a pretty obvious precaution. There was plenty of time to inventory Haley and Elan's stuff while they were washing the orangutan. And that's not counting the hairdresser's opportunity for a close look at whatever Haley was wearing, and whatever fun-and-games Elan went through with his daddy.

Also, the after-action report on the slave-freeing expedition would be full of clues as to H's and V's capabilities. Plus all that time Durkon spent in the library by himself made him vulnerable to a spy's look-over.

T is smart, very smart ... and even average gamers would have the information they needed long ago.

okay he learns the order is wearing magical items, detect magic wont to a thing to letting him know what the actual item is it would require a wizard or sorcerer chain casting identify to actually figure out what each item is

and then it begs the question, WHY? what would knowing what there items are possibly do for him? aside from potentially making his son and his group think that Tarquin is planning to kill them all in there sleep making them decide to escape in the night and kill every guard in there way