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eggynack
2012-04-14, 05:40 AM
In a campaign I'm in, there is likely to be a fight against an ironwyrm golem from page 165 of the draconomicon. Unlike normal golems which are treated as having infinite spell resistance, these monsters seem to have a blanket spell immunity. Does this mean that spells like orb of acid and wall of stone would be ineffective against them, and in what other ways is this ability different from traditional golem magic immunity with regards to spells?
Furthermore, the party is also likely to face vampires at some point, and there has been a rules debate about what gaseous form is capable of. I'm of the opinion that the ability doesn't grant immunity to grappling, because it lacks that specific immunity in the text of the spell like freedom of movement. However, the counter-arguement has been raised that the line "It can pass through small holes or narrow openings, even mere cracks" can be interpreted as allowing escape from a grapple. Which viewpoint is more accurate in this case?

BobVosh
2012-04-14, 06:11 AM
If the golem is immune like spell immunity the spell (sounds redundant, but somehow isn't) then it is treated as unbeatable SR. AFB so I can't look it up.

RAW gaseous form isn't immune to grapples. RAI imo is definitely immune, unless using something like the air elemental whirlwind. I don't see how you can make an argument for holding mist without magic or some form of air tight holding.

tyckspoon
2012-04-14, 11:49 AM
The Ironwyrm golem will be immune to any magic that has a direct effect on it- generally, anything that allows a save, is targeted at it, or is thrown at it (for things like Rays and other Effect: spells that aren't actually Target spells). You can't really be immune to something like Wall of Stone, Iron, or Force- those spells don't actually interact with anybody, they just create a barrier in your way. You deal with them the same way you would deal with a mundanely-built stone wall. The grey area would be things like Solid Fog or Black Tentacles; I'm of the opinion that 'Immunity to Magic' does not defend you against their effects (again because these are basically making a physical obstruction, and the golem does not have Freedom of Movement), but there's space to disagree.

Dairuga
2012-04-23, 03:57 AM
I would say Gaseous form allows immunity to Grapple. Think about it, how are you supposed to hold a cloud in your hand? Or in both of your hands? But then again, if you say; Get out a blanket, or a sack, you are free to throw it around said vampire and bag him in as he gases. That would be hilarious, if you managed to find something airtight to stuff him into and call that grappled. The fighter's grapple-action constitutes of hurling a sack over the newly-formed cloud!

Dairuga
2012-04-23, 04:10 AM
I would say Gaseous form allows immunity to Grapple. Think about it, how are you supposed to hold a cloud in your hand? Or in both of your hands? But then again, if you say; Get out a blanket, or a sack, you are free to throw it around said vampire and bag him in as he gases. That would be hilarious, if you managed to find something airtight to stuff him into and call that grappled. The fighter's grapple-action constitutes of hurling a sack over the newly-formed cloud!

AWiz_Abroad
2012-08-02, 09:50 AM
"How do you catch a cloud and pin it down?"

Sorry, Sound of Music Reference. I agree absent the ability to control air (elemental) or some kind of vaccum cleaner, gaseous form should grant you FoM.

More seriously, You appear to have an answer to your queries, but I'll pile on with the nothing thrown at an ironwyrm is going to impact, and enviromental conditions (solid fog, wall of stone/iron) do apply. I disagree on Black Tentacles, but frankly, they're a fairly minor threat against an Ironwyrm.