New to Ninja

[Rethmar]

For an upcoming campaign, I'm planning on playing a Ninja as base class. This is my first time playing one, and I'm not one of those 'zomg ninjas are baws and kill everything.'

A fellow player is rolling a samurai (not a CW samurai, mind you) and I felt like playing a ninja to complement it.

Is there much information concerning them, whether sourcebooks or ACFs or articles?

Also, a main point of mine is, what to prestige into? I'm planning on taking one or more levels of swordsage for various ninja-flavored abilities, but I'm not sure about prestige classes. Are there any that really mesh well?

Thanks. :)

[Malachei]

A Swordsage is a better Ninja.

[SilverLeaf167]

OK, great, so you're already going to take some levels in Swordsage, which in general is a better class than Ninja.
One problem with ninjas is that they may find it difficult to qualify for any meaningful PrCs. Ask your DM whether you could use Sudden Strike to count as Sneak Attack when it comes to prerequisites. Nightsong Infiltrator from Complete Adventurer isn't too bad. Ninja Spy from Oriental Adventures is also kind of cool.

[Malachei]

It is old, but there's a Ninja handbook, here. (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19862382/The_Complete_Ninja_-_Guide_38;_Handbook) Your favorite search engine may produce similar, or better results.

I'd say you're better off reading a Swordsage handbook, though.

[Rethmar]

I've played a swordsage before, I was going for something weaker purposefully (also fulfilling the skillmonkey role for rogue stuff.) Thanks for the advice though.

[Malachei]

I understand.

While Swordsage can happily fill the skillmonkey role (1 level of rogue plus able learner), I understand you want something different.

Then maybe you'd consider this ninja version. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=213075)

[SleepyShadow]

Sudden Strike already counts as Sneak Attack for prerequisites, so you don't have to worry there. Also, check my signature. I've compiled an up-to-date Ninja Handbook. It should help you out.

[Particle_Man]

For prestige classes try Shadow Sun Ninja because a swordsage can easily get into it and because it has "Ninja" in the title. :smallbiggrin:

[Soranar]

Here's a straight ninja build I've used in a campaign, it was fairly efficient.


Race: Air goblin
Alignment: any
template: necropolitan (not crucial but being immune to poison really helps as you'll be handling poisons all the time and you can spend your time making some while your party sleeps)

STATS (32 pts)

STR 6 (dump)
DEX 22 (main)
CON -
INT 14
WIS 16
CHA 6 (unlike a rogue you only have 2 cha skills, not worth investing in this)

2 flaws

Feats
Level 1 Point blank shot, rapid shot,Precise shot
Level 3 weapon focus: light crossbow
Level 6 crossbow sniper
Level 9 Manyshot
Level 12 Darkstalker
Level 15 Improved Precise shot
Level 18 Improved rapid shot

You don't need to take the feat rapid reload, just buy a crossbow with the quick loading property

get a gnomish sniper sights (150 gp) to increase your range increments by 2

Crossbow sniper increases your sudden strike range to 60ft

You deal a respectable amount to damage to crit immune creatures (half your DEX isn't that bad if you get magic bolts/crossbow). You should invest in poisonmaking as making your own poison is a lot cheaper than buying it.

With a little luck someone in your party can cast minor creation or you can take hidden talent , invest your Cha to 11, and cast it yourself through psionics to obtain poisonmaking material (black lotus poison)

There is a whole handbook on poisonmaking and usage online (just google it)

[Malachei]

That is a nice build, but the image it conjures is that of a crossbow sniper assassin. How ninja-like is this?

[Answerer]

The Ninja class has almost no class features worth having. They get a pitifully-small Ki pool (Wis + half their level, really, Wizards?), most of the Ki effects are mediocre even when you can use them, and the rest of their class features are fairly... awful.

Literally any other class with Trapfinding and 6 or more base skill points per level would serve you better.

If you feel you absolutely must include "Ninja" on your character sheet, no more than Ninja 2. Ghost Step is at least a unique class feature, and you get Wis+1 uses of it, which is... probably about as good as it's going to get, considering that the stupid pool scales by half your level. You also get the Monk AC bonus, which is kind of solid. If you want Poison Use, Master of Poisons from Drow of the Underdark is massively better, at a lower cost, and you can get it at level 1.


After level 2, the only other feature even worth noticing on the Ninja's table is Ghost Step (Ethereal) at 10th. Which is just... 8 levels is not worth that.

And beyond that, the Ninja literally does not get another class feature that is anything more than eminently forgettable.

[Malachei]

Yes, we've told him that. But he wants to play a Ninja.

See the above posts, which explain he's played Swordsages before and wants to take a step back in power.

[Answerer]

I know, I read that.

But I'm saying the class has nothing. It literally gets only two class features that are even worth remembering you have.

Anyway, I edited in the most I think can be possibly justified.

[ericgrau]

The biggest class feature that jumps out to me is ghost step. It doesn't work like the spell so it gives you full attack sudden strikes. You can't get bonus damage from flanking, but you get a "sneak attack" trigger that is safer and much more reliable instead; something fragile rogues have trouble with. I'd go range to take advantage of the full attack sudden strikes; you don't lose as many attacks to moving that way and you're even safer from harm.

IMO shoot for at least 3 rounds of ghost step but 4-8 is better. You might use 9+ some days but I think it'll usually be a waste; even then you could often conserve uses during cleanup rounds of battle where it's not necessary.

[nedz]

Since the key class features are based off your Ki Pool, increasing that would obviously be useful. There are a couple of feats in CSco which do this.

Enduring Ki
+1 Ki Pool
By expending one use of your Ki Power when you activate a Ki Power-based ability, the ability lasts for 1 extra round.

Expanded Ki Pool
+3 Ki Pool

If you want to be an archer, you could also take Zen Archery. This would allow you to base your archery off Wis which would improve your AC and add more to your Ki Pool.

[FMArthur]

I'll try to help by posting the ninja stuff that I commonly push into my Ninja builds:
Cloak of Deception (maneuver): Ghost Step that ends at the end of your turn. I consider this mandatory on a Ninja, massively increasing your longevity throughout the day and allowing your invisibility to be useful outside of the combats you reserve it for. Cheap 3000gp maneuver-granting items can give you this 1/encounter without class levels or feats, and while Swordsage is tasty anyway, you can instead take this item to use the maneuver with a Warblade dip for better recovery.
Sudden Leap (maneuver): At Ninja 4 your Jump checks are always running. Sudden Leap is Swift Action movement based on Jump checks, imperative for getting full attacks.
Craven (feat): Add your character level to Sudden Strike damage. Self-explanatory and usually worth the feat after only a few levels.
Darkstalker (feat): Hide from blindsense, blindsight, tremorsense, scent just like normal dudes. Pair with Ring of the Darkhidden to negate Darkvision as well.
Assassin's Stance (stance): +2d6 Sneak Attack is cool. Pick this up at Swordsage 2 by delaying that level until 8th. This is better taken with swordsage levels and not feats, since a tiny SS dip grants you so much - Adaptive Style therefore comes hand-in-hand. My 1st-level stance for ninjas is usually Step of the Wind, a terrain-ignoring stance that gives you bonuses versus those impeded by terrain. Works well out of combat where other stances wouldn't matter, and helps within certain combats in otherwise tricky ambush locations. The Shadow Jaunt maneuver is also useful for noncombat positioning, Wolf Fang Strike for getting 2 standard attacks, Sapphire Nightmare Blade for guaranteeing Sudden Strike (there are other ways though and I don't usually have enough spare skills for Concentration), Counter Charge for not dying, etc.
Hit-and-Run Tactics (fighter ACF): With one Fighter level that drops some armor proficiencies, you gain +2 Initiative and add your Dexterity to weapon damage against flat-footed targets within 30ft. Cannot combine with Thug fighter, but Sneak Attack fighter is another beneficial ACF you can take alongside this if you can squeak by without a bonus feat. You can also take Martial Stalker and just pure Fighter levels to advance Sneak Attack and Ki pool, but it's pretty barren, doesn't give you ethereal Ghost Step or anything else and ultimately trades all your skill points and one more feat you can't afford just for full BAB. Expanded Ki Pool is probably better for the feat and it's still not that good.
Gaining Dexterity SADness:
Feycraft weapons from DMGII cost +1500gp and reduce the weapon's damage die by 1. On light weapons, this property lets you wield them as if you had Weapon Finesse; saves a feat and your weapon's damage only goes down by 1, or less if it was below d6.
Boots of Agile Leaping from MIC are 600gp and let you use Dexterity for Jump. They also let you swiftly stand from Prone with balance ranks.
Two-Weapon Fighting is obvious to generate more attacks for Sudden Strike damage. Gloves of the Balanced Hand are 8000gp and give you Improved TWF's benefit without spending a second feat (they alternatively give TWF if you don't have it). Greater TWF isn't worth the two feats it'd cost you above this.
Initiative Pumping: Plain Dexterity investment via race, point buy, items and stat increases. Also: Warning weapon (+5), Ring of Anticipation (always reroll initiative, 6000gp), the Aggressive trait (+2, -1 AC), Improved Initiative if necessary (you're feat-starved). Foes are flat-footed until their first turn, so your first action is your best as a Ninja. There are other things that grant bonuses (Eager weapons, Belt of Battle) but they're small and expensive.
Weapon choices:
Hand Crossbow: Ninja gets this exotic weapon by default, which is good for TWFing at range. You can take Hand Crossbow Focus for Weapon Focus + Rapid Reload in one feat, and Crossbow Sniper to apply half your Dex to damage. The usual ranged attack feats also apply. Ranged attacking is one of the few ways to truly exploit the Ninja's few advantages over a Rogue, since Sudden Strike and Sneak Attack are identical on ranged attacks and the Ninja gets actual class features for denying foes their dexterity. There are lots of tricks for reloading with no free hands. The Glove of Master Strategist in Ghostwalk are very cheap versions of Glove of Storing that didn't get changed in the 3.5 update, but failing that I like the Spare Hand from MIC as well. This is all feat-intensive, so your Fighter level should probably grant a feat instead of SA.
Gnome Quickrazor: For Iaijutsu Focus, a skill you can pick up with Flexible Mind that lets you add 1d6-9d6 to attacks vs flatfooted enemies after drawing a weapon. This weapon is drawn with every attack. As per the Hide rule update in Rules Compendium, a foe is flat-footed with regard to you if you successfully hide from someone; while the penalties moving and attacking while hiding only work out to par with invisibility bonuses, you should have a large enough normal Hide skill to do it regardless. So you can actually use IF for more than the first round, and in combination with Sudden Strike your attacks become ridiculously lethal. Gnomes with weapon familiarity can use the CW rule on swapping around a race's weapon familiarities for others of the same race. Whisper Gnomes are probably the best ninja race regardless, with a special Silence SLA, good stat adjustments, Small size with 30ft speed, and Hide/Move Silently bonuses on top.
Any Shadow Hand weapon: The Shadow Blade feat lets you use your Dexterity bonus in place of strength on weapon damage. That's pretty much all this is for, but +5~10 damage on every attack isn't bad. If you've got a feat to spare (you probably don't), you can use unarmed strike to generate better weapon damage. A Fanged Ring from Dragon Magic costs 10,000gp but gives you Improved Unarmed Strike + Improved Natural Attack without spending feats. From there you can spend one feat on Superior Unarmed Strike to receive a Small monk's unarmed strike progression (regardless of your size), which gets bumped up by INA to regular Monk. Necklace of Natural Weapons lets you enhance unarmed strikes like magic weapons.
Barbarian dip for Pounce (Complete Champion ACF): Making a sub-T3 melee build that would not be best served by a single level of Barbarian is almost a game in itself. Even with your swordsage dip and Sudden Leap, your Swift action economy is remarkably poor because of invisibility activation, so a full attack on a charge is just too good to pass. Make sure to take the Twisted Charge skill trick for a much more versatile attack pattern. Whirling Frenzy is a good Rage variant as always, but if you're not ever going to use Rage due to the restrictions it places (no Iaijutsu Focus for one thing), the Favored Enemy variant would grant you at least something you'd use.


Here's a dumb little murderer I made a few months ago that shows some of this put together in a condensed format:

twf iaijutsu ninja.txt

ECL 8. CR ???. Hmmm... Likely to instantly murder ECL 10 PC with decent HD and Con. Not safe
for use. :(

Whisper Gnome Ninja 4 / Fighter 1 / Barbarian 1 / Swordsage 2

Ability Scores / Modifiers (originals) - 32pb
STR 6 / -2 (8)
DEX 24 / +7 (18)
CON 14 / +2 (12)
INT 8 / -1 (8)
WIS 14 / +2 (14)
CHA 12 / +1 (14)

Race (Whisper Gnome LA: 0)
-2 Str, +2 Dex, +2 Con, -2 Cha
Small size, 30ft land speed
Low-Light Vision, Darkvision 60ft
+4 Hide & Move Silently, +2 Spot & Listen
Weapon Familiarity (swapped for quickrazor)
1/day SLAs: Silence centred on self, Ghost Sound, Mage Hand, Message
+dumb goblin/giant racism bonuses

Traits
Aggressive: +2 Initiative, -1 AC
Illiterate: +1 skill (Iaijutsu Focus), can't read

Alternate Features
Fighter:
Sneak Attack Fighter
Hit and Run Tactics: +2 Initiative, add Dex to damage vs flatfooted
Barbarian:
Spiritual Totem (Lion): Pounce, no Fast Movement
Favored Enemy (Human): +2 damage/Bluff/Listen/SenseMotive/Spot/Survival,
but no Rage.
Feats
R Weapon Familiarity: Gnomish Quickrazor (counts as martial)
F Two-Weapon Fighting
F Craven
1 Flexible Mind [Anarchic]: Iaijutsu Focus, Hide (Always class skills and +1
bonus. Anarchic feats only given to to supremely chaotic creatures.
Character radiates an Aura of Chaos with power = character level, as if
it is a cleric of a chaotic deity.)
3 Darkstalker: Creatures with Blindsense/Blindsight/Scent/Tremorsense need to
make Spot or Listen checks (whichever DC is higher) to notice you just
like normal creatures' Spot checks to notice you. Can flank creatures with
all-around vision.
6 Adaptive Style

Skills (49 ranks)
Iaijutsu Focus +14, 2d6 min, 5d6 max, 3.5d6 avg
Iaijutsu Damage: [roll] / 5 - 1 = X. Deals Xd6 in damage
Jump +24 (always "running") (synergy w/ Tumble)
Tumble +14 (synergy w/ Jump)
Escape Artist +14
Move Silently +20
Hide +22
Balance +14

Gear
MW Feycraft Gnome Quickrazor (1d2): 1845gp
MW Feycraft Gnome Quickrazor (1d2): 1845gp
Feycraft (DMGII): 10% less weight, die size decreased, light weapon can
be wielded as if with Weapon Finesse.
Gloves of Balanced Hand & Dexterity +2: 12,000gp, +2 Dexterity and Improved TWF
Boots of Agile Leaping & Elvenkind: 3100gp, Jump uses Dex, stand from prone as
Swift action if you have 5 ranks balance; +5 Move Silently
Hat of Disguise: 1800gp, Disguise Self at will
Ring of the Darkhidden: 2000gp, Invisible to Darkvision

Statistics
HP 52 IV +11
AC 19 TC 19 FF 10
FO +7 RE +12 WI +7
Grapp +0 Attack +13/+8

Stuff to Use
Ghost Step (Swift, 4/day):
Turn invisible until start of next turn.
Maneuvers (first 4 readied):
[ ] Cloak of Deception (Swift):
Ghost Step that ends at end of turn instead of round.
[ ] Sudden Leap (Swift):
Move Jump check in distance (25ft - 40ft)
[ ] Shadow Jaunt (Standard):
Teleport 50ft through shadows (LoS and LoE).
[ ] Counter Charge (Immediate):
Make Dex or Str check vs charging foe (foe uses same as you) and
gain +4 bonus for smaller size (Dex) or +4 bonus for larger size
(Str). On success, foe does not get to attack you and you move
them 2 squares away in selected direction. On fail, foe gets +2
to attack against you.
[ ] Soaring Raptor Strike (Standard):
Jump vs AC of larger creature. If successful, make attack at +4
and deal +6d6 damage.
[ ] Wolf Fang Strike (Standard):
Attack with two weapons as a Standard Action at -2 penalty
[ ] Mountain Hammer (Standard):
Attack deals 2d6 extra damage and ignores DR and hardness.
Stances
Assassin's Stance:
Sneak Attack 2d6.
Step of the Wind:
Ignore difficult terrain, gain +2 attack bonus vs terrain-impeded
targets and +4 on ability checks involving trips and bull rushes.

Attacking
One Weapon: MW gnome quickrazor +14/+9, 1d2-2 (1)
Two Weapon: MW gnome quickrazors +12/+7/+12/+7, 1d2-2 (1)
Sudden Strike: +2d6
Sneak Attack: +3d6
Iaijutsu Focus: +2d6-5d6
Hit and Run Tactics: +7
Craven: +8
Damage vs flatfooted foe per attack: 46 avg, 23 min, 76 max

[Piggy Knowles]

I'd probably play a crossbow-focused build if I were playing a ninja, using the Hand Crossbow Focus feat from Drow of the Underdark and Crossbow Sniper from PHB2. Something like:

1- Point Blank Shot, Rapid Shot
3- Hand Crossbow Focus
6- Crossbow Sniper
9- Enduring Ki
12- Darkstalker
15- Craven
18- Expanded Ki Pool

Until level 3, I'd fight with a shortbow, as you won't be able to use Rapid Shot with your hand crossbow until you take Hand Crossbow Focus (which requires BAB +1). That said, come level 6, you'll get 1/2 dex to damage and extend the range of your Sudden Strike to 60', which isn't too bad.

Carrying lots of poison crossbow bolts is recommended - you've got poison use, you may as well use it. If your DM allows it, it might be worth taking Hidden Talent (Psionic Minor Creation) at first level for poison creation, bumping everything back a feat and dropping Expanded Ki Pool.

Honestly, the CAdv ninja gets a lot of flack, but you can make a passable character with it if stealth is your deal. It's no factotum, and even compared to the rogue it's a little one-dimensional, but it isn't bad...

[SleepyShadow]

If you want to go with the hand crossbow, I recommend taking a peak at Versatile Combatant. It would fit the crossbow ninja nicely.

[Rethmar]

Thanks for all the advice. I suppose there isn't that much published material for the CAdv Ninja. That's alright though, I'll likely just take a couple levels of ninja and move on to whatever flavorful things catch my eye.

It's for a medium op group this time, so I just didn't feel like building a powerhouse this time. Mostly just stealth, spying, skill usage, and some occasional backstabs. Too bad ninjas don't get UMD.

Lots of cool ideas posted though, I will definitely use them and I appreciate the effort involved. :smallsmile:

[Piggy Knowles]

If you want to go with the hand crossbow, I recommend taking a peak at Versatile Combatant. It would fit the crossbow ninja nicely.

Eh, I'm not a huge fan of Versatile Combatant. Mixing melee and ranged sounds nice, but there's no huge advantage to it for the ninja, who doesn't really care about things like flanking bonuses. But the biggest problem is that carrying a rapier in your offhand means you don't have a free hand to reload your crossbow with...

[Otomodachi]

Get your hands on as many of the D20 Legend of the Five Rings books as you can. There's going to be all kinds of fun stuff in there that will let you be any kind of Ninja, and the classes themselves will have the kind of flavourful abilities it seems like you're craving. Power will range from book to book but will generally not match a swordsage.

Especially look for the Scorpion clanbook, I dunno if they did a Ninja-centric book but there might be, the Dragon clanbook, maybe Crane and Crab as well. Don't limit yourself to just classes/prestige classes with ninja in the name, they're all obviously gonna have an asian flavour, just look for the "roguish" ones and use them to put together whatever kinda ninja you want.

[SleepyShadow]

Eh, I'm not a huge fan of Versatile Combatant. Mixing melee and ranged sounds nice, but there's no huge advantage to it for the ninja, who doesn't really care about things like flanking bonuses. But the biggest problem is that carrying a rapier in your offhand means you don't have a free hand to reload your crossbow with...

No freehand? No problem! This is a fantasy game.

Rapid Reload + ammo on your belt = Shooting from the hip :smallwink:

Gloves of ammo storage? Shouldn't be hard. Really desperate? Use your teeth! I'm sure the DM won't mind invoking the Rule of Cool, especially since the Ninja (and mundane characters in general) are under-powered when the party has casters.

Besides, at worst you have to use a repeating hand crossbow.

[FMArthur]

Versatile Combatant is just a bad replacement for TWF. Its real benefit is that you no longer provoke (from adjacent opponents :smallconfused:) when firing hand crossbows ever again, even if you're not wielding a rapier in the off-hand, but you're a ninja. That shouldn't be a problem to begin with for a dang ninja, and you can still just attack the enemy next to you without provoking by using your hand crossbows' 4gp bayonets.

The feat's only use is a scenario where someone is adjacent to you, you can't get away or turn invisible, and you have to fire your hand crossbows at range against someone who is not the guy right next to you.

Regular TWF would let you use both your weapon hands to attack people at range, which is way better.

[Elfinor]

SleepyShadow's handbook is goodsauce. If you're going the melee route, I'd recommend using the Unarmed Variant Swordsage for multiclassing and then getting Snap Kick, extra attacks synergise well with Sudden Strike. Improved Unarmed Strike is also a prerequisite for a few Ninja-flavoured prestige classes. Losing out on Light Armor proficiency doesn't hurt much, your ki powers are only useable when unarmored. If you decide to multiclass with Monk, the Exemplars of Evil variant (Trade Evasion for Immediate Action 1 round Invisibility every 3 rounds) is extremely useful at low levels and can save you a lot of ki.

Assuming some Dragon Material is allowed, Dragon 342 has some very interesting ki feats - notably Freedom of Movement. Another feat makes enemies flatfooted for everyone, useful for an Iaijutsu Focus group, but requires a will save:smallannoyed:. I vaguely remember hearing about a Dungeon Crasher Fighter using Wind Oxen Jutsu, which sounds hilariously awesome. Dragon 351 also has some feats designed for Ninja, but they are largely underwhelming.

Ninja of the Crescent Moon (Sword and Fist, 3e) is an unmentioned good PrC, but only if you can use the pre-errata version:smallwink:. Its class features leave it passable post-errata (errata:Fighter BAB>Rogue BAB, Monk Saves>Rogue Saves) but it loses its edge; I wouldn't recommend it in that case.

Don't have anything else to say that hasn't been said, good luck:smallsmile:

[SleepyShadow]

SleepyShadow's handbook is goodsauce.

Assuming my internet lingo is up to par (and goodsauce is a good thing), thank you :smallcool:

[Zaq]

I consider two levels in Monk (yes, Monk!) to be nearly mandatory on anyone who wants to take the Ninja class. Why? Two words: Invisible Fist. It's one of the single greatest abilities Monks get, and it really, REALLY helps with the whole "tiny ki pool" problem. You use Invisible Fist as your bread-and-butter invisbility, and you augment it with your ki pool when you really need to stay unseen. Even if it only works once per encounter, that's still effectively an extra 2-5 ki points per day, which is way more than you'd get from two levels in Ninja.

[Malachei]

T Too bad ninjas don't get UMD.

One level of Rogue or Beguiler and Able Learner.

[nedz]

One level of Rogue or Beguiler and Able Learner.

One level of Warlock for 1d6 EB (as your missile weapon), one invokation and UMD. The trouble is that you would always be tempted to take more levels, which may result in a build which is too OP.

[Malachei]

One level of Warlock for 1d6 EB (as your missile weapon), one invokation and UMD. The trouble is that you would always be tempted to take more levels, which may result in a build which is too OP.

It is probably a question of personal taste, but I must say I'd much prefer knowing 14 beguiler 1st level spells (charm person, color spray, comprehend languages, detect secret doors, disguise self, expeditious retreat, hypnotism, mage armor, obscuring mist, rouse, silent image, sleep, undetectable alignment, whelm) plus the cantrips. Assuming a +1 Int bonus, the character can spontaneously cast 4 per day. Even with caster level staying behind, having expeditious retreat, mage armor, charm person or disguise self at your disposal is nice, especially in city adventures.

[Rixx]

Want a ninja HERE'S YOUR NINJA

The Pathfinder Ninja (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/alternate-classes/ninja)

Swordsage schmordsage.

[Elfinor]

Assuming my internet lingo is up to par (and goodsauce is a good thing), thank you :smallcool: You're welcome. It was meant to be a compliment, I end up typing a bit funny when inadequately caffeinated:smallsigh: Ended up repeating your unarmed swordsage/snap kick advice, too.

Although this is probably the wrong place to ask, could you please add the Ninja of the Crescent Moon PrC and Dragon Magazine (342 & 351) feats to the handbook? I'm interested in seeing your take on them.

[nedz]

It is probably a question of personal taste, but I must say I'd much prefer knowing 14 beguiler 1st level spells (charm person, color spray, comprehend languages, detect secret doors, disguise self, expeditious retreat, hypnotism, mage armor, obscuring mist, rouse, silent image, sleep, undetectable alignment, whelm) plus the cantrips. Assuming a +1 Int bonus, the character can spontaneously cast 4 per day. Even with caster level staying behind, having expeditious retreat, mage armor, charm person or disguise self at your disposal is nice, especially in city adventures.

Yes but the Eldritch Blast is perfect for a Ninja - magical ranged touch and add in the Sudden Strike damage. Saves you lots of feats on crossbows, though it is only 1/rd.
Add in an invokation such as Breath of the Night (fog cloud) or Leaps and Bounds (+6 Jump, Balance and Tumlbe) or See the Unseen or Spiderwalk or ..., and all at will.
But then 2 levels gets you two of these + Det Magic.

I guess either would work well.

[SleepyShadow]

You're welcome. It was meant to be a compliment, I end up typing a bit funny when inadequately caffeinated:smallsigh: Ended up repeating your unarmed swordsage/snap kick advice, too.

Although this is probably the wrong place to ask, could you please add the Ninja of the Crescent Moon PrC and Dragon Magazine (342 & 351) feats to the handbook? I'm interested in seeing your take on them.

Sure, I'll take a look at them (and give credit for pointing them out, naturally).

Getting back to the topic at hand, Nedz, I like the idea of a warlock/ninja, though I can hardly see how combining the two would result in a build being "too OP". Please correct me if I'm wrong, but there is only one prestige class I know of to marry the two classes effectively: Daggerspell Mage. As that PrC is rather underwhelming, I'd say blend ninja and warlock at will.

As for Malachei's ninja/beguiler, there was one of those in a short-lived Against the Giants campaign I ran. She took levels in Unseen Seer after a while, and that worked splendidly. She was very effective, though she was certainly the quintessential fragile speedster.