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Ezra_The_Mad
2012-04-14, 11:15 PM
A foreword- The Dread Necromancer is my favorite class, but seems a little underpowered. Granted, it is tier three and awesome, but i'd like to break it. Break it to make the DM weep tears of blood and DMG's fall from the sky in retributive rain. Post your ideas on how you'd break this awesome class. (The Dread Necro can be found in Heroes of Horror)


Concerning Spectral Hand
This is a terrible thing to do to your DM. It only works if custom magic items can be created for you at low-mid levels, presumably by an expert mage.You ask him to create an item, similar to the Hand of Mage. Call it Hand of the Lich or something else. make it a skeletal hand clutching your throat, if you have to.

It's effect? A permanent spectral hand.

According to the magic item creation rules as i understand them, this is roughly in the neighborhood of eight thousand gold pieces, because you don't want a huge caster level on it. The range on Spectral hand is 100+10/level. You should be at middle range anyway, so if you want, make it caster level one to cut down on the price. The price is immaterial, as you'll be taking out a loan. If you're playing neutral or chaotic evil, burn it down on your way out. Then, rob the smoking ruin.

Now, in the SRD version of spell, it requires a small sacrifice of health.If necessary to placate your DM, Just add a permanent reduction to your health while you're wearing it. It's four points, and sort of immaterial. also under the SRD version, it can only carry touch spells under and up to the fourth level. This is great. All your great touch spells (Vampiric Touch, Chill Touch, The Inflict Spells, Bestow Curse) Are up to and below fourth level. This is great. This essentially removes a lot of the risk from playing this class in melee. However, it shines when you realize it's explicitly stated all your "on touch" class abilities are transferable by Spectral Hand. And they stack. This means you can slap people with your Charnel Touch to your heart's content without burning a precious spell at low levels. Once you get Enervating Touch, it's almost a joke. You'll probably take Shivering Touch as your Advanced Learning spell, so you're laughing whenever you Dm throws a dragon at you, and anything that isn't undead is paralyzed on the ground in the first round. You're essentially hitting for constant longsword damage from a hundred feet away. Every round. As an attack action, because it's also implied that a Charnel Touch is an attack action. This gets hilarious when you combine it with your Scaborous Touch... (See Below)

The Scaborous Shuffle

Most people look at Scaborous Touch and scoff. You can't even apply fun diseases, like Ghoul Fever or Mummy Rot. It's essentially a flavor ability, to be used only for RP. It's reminiscent of Quivering Palm in that respect. However, ask your DM if you can use the Book of Vile Darkness. Beacuse then, this is a kill-anything. The key here is the line "no incubation period".This essentially boils down to instant ability damage, if there is literally no incubation period for the disease. The standouts from teh DMG are Slimy Doom, Filth Fever, and Blinding Sickness. These are great. The BoVD, however, is just...cruel. Standouts here include-

Deathsong
Instant amounts of ludicrous ability damage. In-universe, this will kill you literally in less than an hour. Maybe fifteen minutes. To you, this is just a huge amount of ability score damage you can hit someone with in a single round. Along with two negative levels. and 1d8+level damage.

Warp Touch
This is fairly unpredictable- it can do anything from an instant, no-save kill, or give the victim a petrifying gaze attack as a medusa. use with caution.

Faceless Hate
This is the evil, evil way to wipe out a village. It deals a healthy amount of Str and Con damage per day, but the twist is that when they actually die of it, they are instantly revived, with all their stats restored. As faceless monster versions of themselves that actively seek to kill or destroy everything they loved. Transmitted by injury.

Lightning Curse/Acid Fever/Iron Corruption
Basic stat drain. Spam Lightning Curse on pesky wizards, Soul Rot on sorcerers.


Dragon Abuse-In Both Senses of the words
Okay. Now that you're an impossible to strike, damage resistant, minion controlling monstrosity, it's time to flesh out that last bit. Killing dragons is a joke for you. If you can cast third level spells, there really isn't a reason you shouldn't be able to kill one in a round or five, given the above Scaborous Touch abuse and Shivering Touch. So, you're going to do awful, monstrous things to this dragons corpse.

What? That? No! God, no. Just because it's nude week....:smallmad:

No, you're going to reanimate it. As a zombie. Hopefully, your DM was foolish enough to throw a Silver Dragon at you. Ideally, a Young Adult. now you're scoffing again. "Undead dragon good, but not best! zombie template take away all good part!", you scream at your laptop screen. They aren't actually.They lose a bunch of great stuff in exchange for some bad stuff. Unless, of course, you're using the Draconomicon. Then, a Zombie dragon is an impossible badass that keeps a ton of natural armor, gets a bunch of bonus HP based on hit dice, and doesn't have a hit dice cap. It is, for example, entirely possible to reanimate a Great Wyrm Silver Dragon. Your DM will rage at the vile gods that allowed this, but this is actually okay, even RAW. but it gets better. It gets so much better.

Because you can cast a little thing called "Awaken Undead".

Now, if you're at least eigth level, and have Corpsecrafter, this turns a dragon into a tank. Literally, because you can climb inside that bastard, and command him from within. Awaken Undead gives him back all of his awesome dragon feats and skill points. This is where your DM quits.

Darth Stabber
2012-04-15, 02:52 AM
DN is the greatest minionmancer going. The key to breaking the class is taking advantage of that fact.

Learning to apply the spell stiched template opens up a whole new world of fun, because of all the fun little SLAs you can give you key troops.

The corpse caster line of feats gives you all sorts of options to add efficacy to your undead. Especially the one that makes them explode when they are destroyed. The explosion is negative energy damage, meaning it hurts the living and heals your nearby minions (and you if you were smart enough to become undead, or had the three brain cells needed to see how awesome tomb tainted soul is).

Get the rest of the party to take tomb tainted soul. Then they can benefit from your amazing restorative prowess. And they don't have to worry about being too close to your suicide bomber zombies, or your negative energy burst. Seriously that takes these kinda risky parts about your class abilities and turns them into upsides.

Fear stacking (on things that aren't immune) is also quite easy, and is a productive use of actions, since your aura makes things shaken, so you can use your standard action to intimidate and bring that up to frightened.

At lower levels careful use of wight chaining can bring your minionmancy to truely rediculous levels. At higher levels you should switch it up to a higher power undead because wights really stop passing muster by lvl 8, and are nearly useless not too long after that.

Slaymates (LM) reduce metamagic cost for necromancy spells by one. Almost of of the dread Necromancer's spell list is necromancy. You see why this is a match made in the nine hells. Fell animate and/or drain become only +1 spell level, highten spell becomes a second spellfocus (necro), extend can be almost automatic. Enervation is necro, and one of the best spells to metamagic, when combined with thesis spell, you can make it all sorts of viscious. Add to it that a slay mate will only take up two dice of your control cap, they may as well be made of solid gold. Just keep in mind that they are very weak, and should be protected as though they were your own child (bonus points if they actually are).

Command undead lasts 1day/CL, and doesn't eat up your control pool, and has no limits on how big a creature it can affect. Intelligent undead get a saving throw (will), mindless ones only get SR (if they even have it, which other than zombie dragons, few do). Use it to snag really big undead that you could never control otherwise, and remember to recast it before it wears off. Your GM will never throw mindless undead at you again, so keep this trick up your sleeve until something worthwhile comes up. Keeping this up eats away at second level spells after a while, so be sure to bring things into your control pool when it becomes convenient.

Amphetryon
2012-04-15, 06:40 AM
As Darth_Stabber intimates, the DN can get the Wightocalypse going pretty much RAW, without any need for further cheese. It's also possible to use DN to stack Fear conditions so that everyone in a decent radius around you is instantly cowering - though you'll probably want Dread Witch to deal with immunities.

Madara
2012-04-15, 09:10 AM
PaO is your best friend. Try to get a magic Item that can use it 1/day or 1/week. Next you take your skeletal undead minion and polymorph it into another fun undead. It gets uncertain here, but it seems that you continue to control the minion.

In addition,


Unlike polymorph, polymorph any object does grant the creature the Intelligence score of its new form.
This gives you at the very least intelligent undead minions, which let's you give complex commands.

I suggest aiming for same size, same kingdom, and related. Those should all work and make the change permanent.

Remember that polymorph has a HD limit based on either the caster level or the subject's HD. So that means you want undead of similar HD. Easiest way to do that is make a zombie, since it has double HD.

Next you slap your favorite undead template onto anything with nice (ex) special attacks. This is the form you're transforming your minion into.

FMArthur
2012-04-15, 09:42 AM
A Dread Necro can just 'break' the game by making it unplayable by controlling such an absurdly large horde of various undead that entering combat at all becomes an ordeal everyone at the table will avoid at all costs.

If you want to be just regular overpowered like a normal spellcaster and not unfun overpowered, take a look at the Death Master in Dragon Compendium. Its spell list is way better and is basically a core cleric/wizard hybrid list that will surprise you with how varied it is, being significantly more diverse than the 'standard fantasy necromancer fare' Dread Necro offers.

It also gets a regenerating Undead Minion that is basically a tankier, more expendable equivalent to an Animal Companion, which is great when you don't have the time or patience to raise and control other undead, not to mention being much more conducive to gameflow. (This isn't an overpowered feature, I'm just mentioning it because it's so much more convenient as an undead-control mechanism than regular means. I think the Dread Necro should have gotten something like it and I'd probably let a player trade some features away to put it on the class.)

mucco
2012-04-15, 11:32 AM
Trick 1: Chain Empower Split Twin Maximize Repeating Enervation with metamagic reducers.

Trick 2: Shivering Touch + Spectral Hand. Add Metamagic.

Trick 3: Get minions with the Create Spawn ability, so your minions will have minions who will have minions... Wightapocalypse is for losers.

Trick 4: Exploit the Zombie Dragon template.

Trick 5: Southern Magician feat (RoF) makes you divine. DMM Persist Greater Consumptive Field, enjoy having a constant +50% to your CL.

Trick 6: Max Intimidate, buy a Fearful (DotU, +5k) armor, get Fell Frighten, and send your enemies right to frightened with practically no save in a single round. Exploit your passive aura to send them panicked, potentially. And that's not even optimizing heavily on fear (Imperious Command, lol).

I've been DMing a Dread Necro in a party with T1/T2s, and I've still banned all of the above (except #4). That might suit your needs.

Also, FF has that symbiont you can take as familiar that gives mind-affecting immunity to one of your friends. Because you are a spellstitched necropolitan made by someone with all those LM feats, right?

Oh, I forgot. Tainted Scholar. It almost seems like WotC wrote this with "Let's make a broken PrC for the Dread" in mind.

TheCountAlucard
2012-04-15, 11:39 AM
"Fun" with the Dread Necromancer, huh? :smallamused:

I'll admit, I sometimes... :smallwink:

Oh, wait, wait... :smallconfused:

I thought, y'know, 'cuz it's Nude Week and all... :smallredface:

Y'know what? Never mind. :smalleek:

Just kidding; as others have said, DN's great, especially for its minionomancy.