Pathfinder Grappler Help

[PoisonAlchemist]

Some context: I am a DM leading players through a hive-of-scum-and-villainy port city that has built tall, and the primary mode of transportation is roof-running three to four stories above the ground. The premise of the session is an escort mission through the twisty streets while beset by assassins from above.

One concept is an assailant wielding a kusarigama or kyoketsu shoge (two reach weapons with the grapple property) who stealthily follows a victim on the street using the roofs. When the time is right he lashes out and grapples them, hoisting them into the air and then using the Strangler feat and a light weapon to wail on them while they dangle.

The issue is the grapple maneuver, and the grapple weapon property, (not to even mention the garrote's separate grapple mechanics) are all written like they're talking past each other such that I am not sure if my concept is 'kosher'. I suppose my questions are as follows:

A. Can you even initiate a grapple at range? The grapple property of weapons only says it activates on a critical hit, but can you go through the combat maneuver at range regardless if the weapon has the grapple property?

B. If you initiate a grapple with a grappling weapon, do you still take the -4 penalty for having your hands full? The garrote explicitly says it does not, but the grappling property and weapon descriptions are mum on this point.

C. Is there a way to use some sort of called shots to not just grapple, but grapple the neck for a silent kill? A garrote has no attack rolls and just assumes that you are choking the neck, I would imagine you should be able to 'aim' with the other weapons.

D. Should I give up and call DM privlidge?

[meriru]

One concept is an assailant wielding a kusarigama or kyoketsu shoge (two reach weapons with the grapple property) who stealthily follows a victim on the street using the roofs. When the time is right he lashes out and grapples them, hoisting them into the air and then using the Strangler feat and a light weapon to wail on them while they dangle.

The issue is the grapple maneuver, and the grapple weapon property, (not to even mention the garrote's separate grapple mechanics) are all written like they're talking past each other such that I am not sure if my concept is 'kosher'. I suppose my questions are as follows:

A. Can you even initiate a grapple at range? The grapple property of weapons only says it activates on a critical hit, but can you go through the combat maneuver at range regardless if the weapon has the grapple property?

Yes. A grapple (http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/combat.html#grapple) can be done at range ("If you successfully grapple a creature that is not adjacent to you, move that creature to an adjacent open space" RAW suggests you can do exactly that.)

However, before I even get to B. and C. I'm going to point out that you're going to have to do a LOT of house-ruling to make this happen (i.e. if you want to play this RAW, it just won't work). (I wanted to use this exact idea on my Ninja Grappler idea (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=239663), but I noticed the following:)

The grapple weapon property (http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/ultimateCombat/combat/easternArmorAndWeapons.html#grapple) on Kusarigama and Kyoketsu Shoge (http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/ultimateCombat/combat/easternArmorAndWeapons.html#kusarigama) reads: "Grapple: On a successful critical hit with a weapon of this type, you can grapple the target" (emphasis mine). That is, if your assassins are going to pick the party up EVER, you have to crit, and kusarigama and kyoketsu shoge both have a critical of x2 (i.e. crit ONLY on a 20).

Even if you want to make them keen (double critical range to 19-20), you... sort-of can't because the end you're likely grappling with is the BLUNT end (the weight of the kusarigama or the ring on the kyoketsu shoge) and blunt weapons cannot get the "keen" property (even if you make the whole weapon keen because they have a bladed side, you're giving your NPC's +2 weapons... which then may go to your players if they kill any of the assassins--think of the cash value even if they can't use them).


B. If you initiate a grapple with a grappling weapon, do you still take the -4 penalty for having your hands full? The garrote explicitly says it does not, but the grappling property and weapon descriptions are mum on this point.

RAW, yes you take -4. I would say RAI you don't take -4 because, like the garotte, the -4 is due to not having your hands free to GRAB with but you are grabbing with the weapon. On the other hand, you are grappling with a rope/chain from x feet away, so maybe -4 makes sense for that...


C. Is there a way to use some sort of called shots to not just grapple, but grapple the neck for a silent kill? A garrote has no attack rolls and just assumes that you are choking the neck, I would imagine you should be able to 'aim' with the other weapons.

There are no rules I am aware of for making "called shots" in Pathfinder... this was the kind of complication that existed in AD&D (2.0) but I'm pretty sure was out by 3.0/3.5 and is DEFINITELY gone in PF. soooo...


D. Should I give up and call DM privlidge?
Yes. But be specific/consistent about it. Give the assassins a homebrew feat that lets them grapple at range on a 15-20 on the die or something (assuming they hit the players) using those weapons, and if a player wants to do the same, they have to take the feat (etc.).

[PoisonAlchemist]

There are no rules I am aware of for making "called shots" in Pathfinder... this was the kind of complication that existed in AD&D (2.0) but I'm pretty sure was out by 3.0/3.5 and is DEFINITELY gone in PF. soooo...

It was released in ultimate combat and can be found in the SRD, it even has some feats to go with it apparently. Of course the called shot rules don't directly correlate with the whole grappling idea but at this juncture it's beside the point.

Well I am more than a little disappointed but with all the energy I've already invested I'm just going to scrub out two of his feats and replace them with some homebrew to make the idea function.