[3.5] Cost of Custom Staff vs Cost of Custom Wand

[Laniius]

Ok, so it looks like the cost of a wand is 750 * caster level * number of charges.

It also looks like that is the cost of a staff, and there are no rules that I can find saying that you need to have multiple spells in a staff.

I must be missing something, as a staff is more powerful than a wand; at least in the right hands (as the user can use their own caster level and casting stat rather than a set caster level or casting stat).

What I think I am reading now is that for 750 gold I can have either a wand of shocking grasp or a staff of shocking grasp. If I am a 5th level wizard, the wand will still only deal 1d6 damage, but the staff (as it is keyed off of MY caster level) will 5d6 damage. Am I correct?

[Malachei]

The minimum caster level for a staff is 8.

[Laniius]

Ok then, same question, but different spell and spell level. Would a spell with a caster level of 8 cost the same to make into a wand as it would a staff?

[Tyger]

Yes. A staff with only a single spell in it is the same price as a wand.

[Slipperychicken]

I'm pretty sure wands only go up to 3rd or 4th level too, so after a point you pretty much have to use a wand or a scroll.

[SinsI]

Staves must have a distinctive type, with set description, spells and charges, while wands can hold whatever you want up to 4th level.
So you normally can't have a staff that duplicates a magic wand.
Balancing custom staves are completely responsibility of the DM.

[Gavinfoxx]

Scepters!

Scepters solve this problem fantastically well. Best of both worlds!

[Answerer]

Staves are considerably better than Scepters.

By way of... I dunno, example? Wizards has implied that staves should have more than one spell. Every officially printed staff has. However, there is nothing in the item creation guidelines that says you must do so.

But I use "guidelines," of course, intentionally: you cannot create any custom item without DM approval. Most DMs will either disallow single-spell staves entirely, or apply some extra cost to them so they aren't literally "wands except better."

I've actually had DMs who have stated that single-spell staves don't exist (i.e. you cannot buy them or expect to find them in loot), but they could be made if someone had the requisite skill. It gave a nice little extra incentive for taking Craft Staff. Personally, though, I'd probably still apply an extra cost there, because that Craft Staff feat is looking very good in that case.

[Tyger]

Staves must have a distinctive type, with set description, spells and charges, while wands can hold whatever you want up to 4th level.
So you normally can't have a staff that duplicates a magic wand.
Balancing custom staves are completely responsibility of the DM.

Can you quote a rule for this? The SRD makes no such ruling, the DMG says nothing about it. RAW, there is nothing to prevent a single spell staff.

[Benly]

Can you quote a rule for this? The SRD makes no such ruling, the DMG says nothing about it. RAW, there is nothing to prevent a single spell staff.

Right at the start of the staves subsection of Magic Items (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/staffs.htm): "A staff is a long shaft of wood that stores several spells. Unlike wands, which can contain a wide variety of spells, each staff is of a certain kind and holds specific spells."

So while it doesn't explicitly say "there is no such thing as a single-spell staff", there is good reason to draw that implication from the text.

[ericgrau]

FAQ says single spell staffs are both allowed and not imbalanced.

The advantage of multiple spells in the same staff is that it's two move actions to switch staffs (sheathe+draw) and they're gigantic 5 lb. things. Even if you have a high strength and quick draw (still a move action to sheathe btw) it strains believability to sheathe more than 2 across your back. Finally it's friggin' hard to burn 50 charges of only 1 spell, let alone 200 charges for 4. The average combat has 5 rounds, 3 rounds that matter, and take a good part of a gaming session. But then that's why you get spells that cost 2-4 charges. I've had a couple characters that liberally used staffs with multiple spells and running out of charges wasn't an issue.

[Tyger]

Right at the start of the staves subsection of Magic Items (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/staffs.htm): "A staff is a long shaft of wood that stores several spells. Unlike wands, which can contain a wide variety of spells, each staff is of a certain kind and holds specific spells."

So while it doesn't explicitly say "there is no such thing as a single-spell staff", there is good reason to draw that implication from the text.

Absolutely. But RAW, there is nothing to preclude single spell staves.

[Answerer]

Technically, though, there is no RAW for creating any custom item. The "rules" are explicitly called out as not being "rules" at all, per se, but guidelines.

[King Atticus]

Ok, so it looks like the cost of a wand is 750 * caster level * number of charges.
Actually it's 750 × level of spell (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/feats.htm#craftWand)× level of caster


It also looks like that is the cost of a staff, and there are no rules that I can find saying that you need to have multiple spells in a staff.

I must be missing something, as a staff is more powerful than a wand; at least in the right hands (as the user can use their own caster level and casting stat rather than a set caster level or casting stat).

What I think I am reading now is that for 750 gold I can have either a wand of shocking grasp or a staff of shocking grasp. If I am a 5th level wizard, the wand will still only deal 1d6 damage, but the staff (as it is keyed off of MY caster level) will 5d6 damage. Am I correct?

As far as I know the only limit on a wand is spell level caps at 4, if you want to pay for higher caster levels you can.

[candycorn]

Staves have the unique ability to use your caster level and ability modifier for save DC if yours is better.

That doesn't sound all that powerful... Until you also look at UMD.

Emulating an ability score lets you have an effective ability score of your UMD check -15.

Emulating a class feature (spellcasting) level lets you have a caster level of your UMD check -20.

What does this mean?

Boost your UMD to +40, and you can emulate the spellcasting ability of a 30th level cleric, with a wisdom of 35, on a roll of 10. What would that mean? Well, easy spell penetration, for one. But what if the Staff had Blasphemy? Anything at level 20 or lower dies.

By level 20? 23 ranks, +14 Charisma modifier, and skill focus gets +40. Not that hard. It's not that hard to go higher, either. Another +9 means that you'd emulate CL 30 on a roll of 1.