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Harry
2012-04-15, 09:25 AM
My campaign ended last night and we are going to start a new one in a few days I decided to play a soulcaster heres my build azurin with the ritual of alignment wizard3/incarnate1/soulcaster10/tainted scholar1/legacy champion 5

Question: I can't remember how to get in soulcaster with 1 level of incarnate any one know how? second question what feats should I take? I will be taking extend and persistent spell third question should I build it different ? and how ? Next question we are starting at 20 what Prestige class should I take in epic?

rot42
2012-04-15, 12:15 PM
It requires the more permissive reading of the Shape Soulmeld feat (that it gives a meldshaper an extra shaping slot rather than just adding it to their class list) and the very permissive reading of the Open Chakra feat (that it gives you an additional chakra bind rather than just prying open the location).

eggs
2012-04-15, 01:55 PM
They're both the more permissive of several readings, but they're also both the more literal and the more reasonable:
Shape Soulmeld says that the user can shape a soulmeld. It doesn't say that the soulmeld is added to a different class's list or even that it's made available to shape. The most parsimonious interpretation of "You can shape that soulmeld" is that the user can shape that soumeld, not that the character can shape the soulmeld if they have levels in a meldshaping class and if that class gives them sufficient soulmelds at a time to use it.
Shape Soulmeld also has a clause for users who don't have essentia. If it weren't usable for characters without meldshaper class levels, this clause would be superfluous.
And per the rules that Shape Soulmeld uses as guidelines, there is no requirement of class levels for shaping a soulmeld; it's a limitation provided by individual and unrelated classes in a different section of the book.

Open Chakra also says that characters with the feat "can now bind a soulmeld or magic item to that chakra." The simplest and most direct interpretation again condones its use.
And again, the rules of binding a soulmeld do not stipulate that a character has a limit on the number of soulmelds that may be bound. This is also a limitation imposed by individual classes, not the system.

So the interpretations of the feats that allow a character to shape or bind new soulmelds are more permissive than imposing inferred limitations, but they are also both the more direct interpretations of the feats, and the interpretations that rely on readers inventing the fewest rules.

But getting in at 4 HD makes everything a bit trickier. You'd likely need to be hit by Open Least Chakra on a daily basis. This is possible to do with WBL at level 4, provided some rather cheesy Artificer shenanigans, but I'm not sure how to implement that more practically. Starting in Epic, it would probably make things enough cheaper/easier to just take a second Incarnate level than to try to afford/justify the early entry; it would cost some 9th level spell slots, but with Tainted Scholar, spell slots aren't much of an issue.

As far as feats, it depends how you're mitigating Tainted Scholar's depravity. If using the Evil subtype, Midnight Metamagic + Psycarnum Infusion can be powerful for free metamagic. If going undead, things get a bit tricky due to the Con requirement on Incarnum feats (this can be dealt with through things like Magic Jar, but it just gets a bit less reliable).

Harry
2012-04-15, 03:16 PM
They're both the more permissive of several readings, but they're also both the more literal and the more reasonable:
Shape Soulmeld says that the user can shape a soulmeld. It doesn't say that the soulmeld is added to a different class's list or even that it's made available to shape. The most parsimonious interpretation of "You can shape that soulmeld" is that the user can shape that soumeld, not that the character can shape the soulmeld if they have levels in a meldshaping class and if that class gives them sufficient soulmelds at a time to use it.
Shape Soulmeld also has a clause for users who don't have essentia. If it weren't usable for characters without meldshaper class levels, this clause would be superfluous.
And per the rules that Shape Soulmeld uses as guidelines, there is no requirement of class levels for shaping a soulmeld; it's a limitation provided by individual and unrelated classes in a different section of the book.

Open Chakra also says that characters with the feat "can now bind a soulmeld or magic item to that chakra." The simplest and most direct interpretation again condones its use.
And again, the rules of binding a soulmeld do not stipulate that a character has a limit on the number of soulmelds that may be bound. This is also a limitation imposed by individual classes, not the system.

So the interpretations of the feats that allow a character to shape or bind new soulmelds are more permissive than imposing inferred limitations, but they are also both the more direct interpretations of the feats, and the interpretations that rely on readers inventing the fewest rules.

But getting in at 4 HD makes everything a bit trickier. You'd likely need to be hit by Open Least Chakra on a daily basis. This is possible to do with WBL at level 4, provided some rather cheesy Artificer shenanigans, but I'm not sure how to implement that more practically. Starting in Epic, it would probably make things enough cheaper/easier to just take a second Incarnate level than to try to afford/justify the early entry; it would cost some 9th level spell slots, but with Tainted Scholar, spell slots aren't much of an issue.

As far as feats, it depends how you're mitigating Tainted Scholar's depravity. If using the Evil subtype, Midnight Metamagic + Psycarnum Infusion can be powerful for free metamagic. If going undead, things get a bit tricky due to the Con requirement on Incarnum feats (this can be dealt with through things like Magic Jar, but it just gets a bit less reliable).

Thank you both but my dm let me do it before with the artifcer and open soulmeld so 1 level it is also I am getting the evil subtype the main reason I am going tainted scholar is blooded metamagic which combined with strongheart vest gives unlimited free:smallcool: also we are starting at 20 I jsyk am getting persistent spell what other fears should I take?