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AzazelSephiroth
2012-04-15, 08:06 PM
Hello Again Playgrounders,

I have a question that I feel only the many faceted minds of these forums can help me find an answer to.
In one of my groups we have an artificer and while reading the rules for infusions and the lists we can across some very confusing wording.

The text in the artificer class description says quite clearly that Infusions are not spells but act like spells, such as being turned off in an AMF etc. It also very clearly says that Infusions never allow a saving throw. Finally it also clearly states that Infusions must be placed/infused into an item or construct. (meaning the artificer must touch the object to infuse it?).

However then here comes the disconnect: the Artificer Infusion list...
One case in particular is Blade Barrier... How exactly does this worK? I have come to 4 possible ideas and please let me know which one if any are correct, and if none are correct what is the correct way to handle infusions!:smalleek:

1- The Infusion Blade Barrier must be placed in an item thus the Artificer can place a Blade Barrier on a door, a golem, gear/items, themselves/ally-assuming a Warforged (but not an enemy unless they can touch them). And all creatures that enter the area take damage as per spell (no save).
2-The Infusion can be placed at distance on any object including an enemy`s gear or items and then all creatures entering the area take damage as per the spell (no save).
3- As #1 above but with a save allowed as Infusions offering no save merely refers to the items being infused.
4- As #2 above but with a save allowed basically meaning that infusions are just spells being called something else and having to be "cast" on a random piece of gear or an object.

??? We are having some issues- if Infusions include spells/effects that do damage how do we figure out the save?(As the spell and ignore the whole Infusions offer no save clause?) And if so what about the fact that Infusions must be placed on an item/object? Does that mean that the Artificer must touch the object or can they do so at a distance making only person safe from becoming a walking mass of shredding blades a naked VOP monk or Swordsage? Please any insights, explanations, or errata I missed would be greatly appreciated... and if I am just miss interpreting the whole thing... no worries just please explain to me the correct way! Thanks a Ton!!:smallsmile:

shadow_archmagi
2012-04-15, 10:43 PM
4- As #2 above but with a save allowed basically meaning that infusions are just spells being called something else and having to be "cast" on a random piece of gear or an object.


I believe Blade Barrier still effects an area and allows a save, making it unique among Artificer abilities as far as I know. (Wall of Force also effects an area, but I don't think it offers a save?) The line about never offering a save is because all infusions are buffs (except for heat/chill metal, which also don't offer saves.) Infusions only have a range of touch if they're mimicking a spell with a range of touch.

Certainly, that's how I always ran it. Ambiguous wording is always a big problem with artificers, even if they are my favorite class. Happy iteming!

AzazelSephiroth
2012-04-15, 10:50 PM
Thanks for the reply!:smallsmile:
I found an errata... finally curse you WOTC and your unfriendly 3.X support!:smallconfused:
According to the errata- the line about no save was removed so the save is based on INT mod... just like a spell. That makes me feel a bit better, but I am still curious about the range of said abilities... all Infusions have to "placed/infused" into an objuect... is this just a fluff issue and the Artificer can "infuse" on anything an opponent or creature wears/carries/owns? Even at distance?

shadow_archmagi
2012-04-16, 07:42 AM
Thanks for the reply!:smallsmile:
I found an errata... finally curse you WOTC and your unfriendly 3.X support!:smallconfused:
According to the errata- the line about no save was removed so the save is based on INT mod... just like a spell. That makes me feel a bit better, but I am still curious about the range of said abilities... all Infusions have to "placed/infused" into an objuect... is this just a fluff issue and the Artificer can "infuse" on anything an opponent or creature wears/carries/owns? Even at distance?

That text offers a general overview of Artificer abilities, which the vast majority of infusions conform to. For example, look up the text for

Armor Enhancement, Lesser
Transmutation
Level: Artificer 1
Components: S, M
Casting Time: 1 minute
Range: Touch
Target: Armor or shield touched
Duration: 10 min./level
Saving Throw: None (object)
Spell Resistance: No (object)

and you'll find that it does indeed offer no save and and have a range of touch and target an item.

However, Shield of Faith (Legion) explicitly states that it works just like Shield of Faith but targets an area and has Medium range, so it doesn't need to be cast on an item at all.


The thing about casting buffs on items is important because it means that you can hand them off. For example, if the party needs to swim across a lake of acid, a level 5 artificer could enchant two suits of armor with Greater Acid Resistance and then two party members could swim across safely, and then one of them could take both suits of armor back, meaning another two could swim across safely, and then one of them could go back for the final party member.

Or if you needed to jump a chasm, you could give an item the Skill Enhancement infusion and for a nice bonus to Jump and each take turns using it.

panaikhan
2012-04-16, 07:45 AM
I'm sure there are rules about spells infusions and attended objects.
As both a player and a DM, I say that an artificer has to physically touch whatever he is infusing. If he wants to infuse an object on someone who doesn't want their junk messed with, it is at least a touch attack, if it is possible at all.

AzazelSephiroth
2012-04-16, 09:58 PM
A super Thank You for the help both of you.
I think we will have to have a discussion out of game to decide how we want to work the "must be cast on an item" clause. But the the addition of Saving Throws at least gives the enemy a chance.
I feel much better about how to approach the next encounter at least!