[3.5] Skill Optimization Challenge

[Empedocles]

Alright, this has been done before, but its never gotten enough love :smalleek: Basically, you create a build that's focused around using 1 skill. You can use non-core skills such as Autohypnosis, Iaijutsu Focus, and Truename, but certain skills will constitute automatic deductions.

Judging will be based on the following criteria, some of which are x/10 points and some of which are x/5:

Originality: Yeah...basically how original the build is. Use of the following skills as the primary skill for your build warrants an automatic 0 in this category: Jump, Iaijutsu Focus, Diplomacy, Intimidate, Use Magic Device, Truenaming, or Use Psionic Device. Unique or interesting builds will score higher then a character with various forms of skill focus. Graded on a scale of 1 to 10 points.

Playability: Is this build actually playable, despite being ridiculously optimized for a certain skill? Graded on a scale of 1 to 5 points.

Power: How much can this build actually do? Is it powerful, or just silly? (he can REALLY sense your motive!). Use of the aforementioned skills also makes for an automatic 0 in this category. Graded on a scale of 1 to 5 points.

Style: How well it...flows. How well it works, I guess. If it's cool. Hard to define, but this category is largely the judge's discretion. Graded on a scale of 1 to 5 points.

Also, a few minor points...

Oriental Adventures is allowed, but no further expansions on that. All WotC approved Dragonlance material is allowed (this is different from the Iron Chef contest, where only the base setting is permitted). In addition, the following settings (and their supplements) are allowed and can be used as setting neutral material (your build could be a warforged without being in Eberron): Forgotten Realms, Eberron, and Ghostwalk. Please tell me if I left any out. Unearthed Arcana is generally allowed, but you cannot use item familiars. Dragon magazine is not allowed, but the Dragon Compendium is.

Finally, you need only present your build at 20th level.

[Morithias]

Oriental Adventures is allowed, but no further expansions on that. All WotC approved Dragonlance material is allowed (this is different from the Iron Chef contest, where only the base setting is permitted).

Damn that means I can't use the merchant prince in Power of Faerun. With that build I actually made Profession (shopkeeper) a usable build.

[Empedocles]

Damn that means I can't use the merchant prince in Power of Faerun. With that build I actually made Profession (shopkeeper) a usable build.

Power of Faerun is ok...I was specifying Dragonlance because it wasn't published by WotC, it was just approved by them.

[Kumori]

I have an idea for an entry into this, though it'll be my first shot at an optimization challenge so I do have a question: What level should entry characters be made at?

[Empedocles]

I have an idea for an entry into this, though it'll be my first shot at an optimization challenge so I do have a question: What level should entry characters be made at?

You outline the build at all levels up to 20. Look at the god of optimization challenges, the Iron Chef, (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=239786) for an idea of how it's supposed to be done. People look much more at what it can do at 20th level though, so that's where the focus should be.

If you want, just do it at 5th, 10th, 15th, and 20th level.

Skill optimization builds are pretty worthless early on so...jut make the build at 20th level.

[Morithias]

Power of Faerun is ok...I was specifying Dragonlance because it wasn't published by WotC, it was just approved by them.

Oh cool awesome!

Ok here's what you do.

Rogue 15/Merchant Prince 5

With 23 ranks in profession, a decent wisdom score, +10 from the class, +8 from feats (business savvy, skill focus, greater skill focus (ravenloft), along with a nice +30 competence item, +5 from specialists (+10 but it costs 250 gp a month so it comes out to +5), take 10 also.

Basically you just work your mod as high as possible, I think i got it to around 90 something.

Then with the landlord feat, and the merchant prince class, to open a shop in the wild costs only 1375 gp.

You make 50 gp times your profit mod a month. So by getting your total mod above 28 (not hard) you make more money per month then it costs to open it.

Then you let them multiply. 1 shop, 2 shop, 4 shop, etc.

I think my most max/min build after 11 months of opening shops, and then using last months' profit to by an epic item of shopkeeping with all the money, came out to 1.4 * 10^13 or something like that gold per month on the final month of the year.

Note: This build does not work at ALL unless you're extremely high level, but it's probably the only way I have EVER found to make any profession skill useful without the DM's help.

[Eisenfavl]

Jump, Iaijutsu Focus, Diplomacy, Intimidate, Use Magic Device, or Use Psionic Device
No Truenaming?
Truenamers are a solid tier 3, and one of the best of that tier. Building yourself around a skill is a necessity.
Some things to leave here:
Item familiar, enough said.
Bloodlines advance caps, have skill bonus's, and can replicate stacking skill focus's. Give you +30 from specials, (uses all of them), + 8 from skill boosts, and + 3 max rank by level 20.
+30 items are good.
There's all the spells you can mimic onto items.
Assuming full ranks + IF + BL + Item you get 26*2+38+30 = +120 on your check, and this is ignoring amulet of the silver flame (greater) for another +10, and your own skill focus, so +133 before we even get to trying to boost it.
I honestly don't get the hate for truenamers.

[Golden Ladybug]

Okay, I'm in. I've got oodles of spare time at the moment, might as well keep signing up for things like this :smallcool:

I presume Custom Magic Items are banned?

[kulosle]

Hey I did one of these once. Ah I love these. So great. I would say see my sig, wasy the orbital bombardier, but you banned jumping. And the build is mostly silly any ways. When do we post or do we send them to you? Whats the dead line? I haven't decided between judging or participating. I love both of them so much.

Edit: wait nope I really have a good idea of what I want to do. It should be a blast.

[Golden Ladybug]

I think I'm done. Eked out a respectable Skill Modifier that easily hits the highest DC that the Skill can be used for, and would be a very effective character otherwise.

What now?

Would you like me to post it here? PM it to Vilpich? Wait for someone to step up to judge and then PM it to them?

[Wings of Peace]

Power of Faerun is ok...I was specifying Dragonlance because it wasn't published by WotC, it was just approved by them.

If I am remembering correctly the first Dragonlance book was published by WoTC before they handed the line off to a different publisher.

Edit: Also, the Perform: Weapon drill build that's been floating around here.

[Emperor Tippy]

Pick any Dex or Str based skill, say Hide. Be a Dark Grey Elf. Max Dexterity and Intelligence. Be a Factotum. Take a level of Exemplar.

Let's see, 24 ranks+10 from 30 Dex+13 from 36 Int+ 8 from Dark+ 15 from Greater Shadow Armor+ 2 from Shadowsilk+ 3 from Skill Focus+ 2 from Masterwork tool. Exemplar allows you to take 10.

That's a +77 hide check with 16 free levels and the ability to guarantee a hide check of 88. Then there is Moment of Prescience for another +25. Then you have Cunning knowledge for another +19. For an ending total of +121 or a guaranteed 131.

This is without really trying and off the top of my head.

[Ryulin18]

I'm going to do a great jumper.


Shadow Catfolk Focused (Abrupt Jaunt) Conjurer 1/Wildshaping (Mystic) Ranger 2/Whirling Frenzy Barbarian 1/Scout 3/Whildshaping (Mystic) Ranger +8/Fleet Runner of Ehlonna 2

Feats: 1) Expeditious Dodge
F) Mobility
F) Run
3) Sword of the Arcane Order
6) Swift Hunter
9) Catfolk Pounce
12) Cheetah's Sprint
15) Improved Skirmish
18) Fleet of Foot

Traits: Quick

Spells: Expeditious Retreat

Items: Greater Collar of Umbral Metamorphosis
Rapid Wrath

Base Speed of 40+10 (Wildshaping Ranger) +10 (Scout) +10 (Barbarian) +10 (Fleet Runner of Ehlonna) +10 (Fleet of Foot) +10 (Dark Template) +(50%) (Shadow Template) +30 (Expeditious Retreat) x2 (Rapid Wrath) = 360ft

RAW states that you gain a +4 to jump for every 10ft above 30ft movement.

330ft = 33 x 4 = +132 to jump

23 base skill @ level 20
+90 for 3 magic items of +30 to jump
+132 for speed

= 245 to jump

+ a natural 20 (in my game group, we count it as a 30 for skill checks)

= 275 to jump

or a 275 foot jump reaching 65 foot in height at the peak.

[Tegannie]

Oo, this sounds fun :smallsmile:

[docnessuno]

I'm sorry but someone has to say it.

Arseplomancer

[kulosle]

No jumping. It's already been done. If it's not an original build then you loose out in originality. Also I think exemplar would lose you points as well. Not being allowed to have diplomacy doesn't mean get diplomacy some where else.

[Empedocles]

Yeah I'm saying as a ground rule that exemplar PrC levels is an automatic 0 in originality.

[kulosle]

So where and when do we submit builds?

Edit: How many point buy is it?

[Empedocles]

PM them to me, and I'll post them all at once. Once there's a bit more interest I'll give a deadline.

[Empedocles]

I'm sorry but someone has to say it.

Arseplomancer

.......

Just figured out how that works :yuk:

[Golden Ladybug]

I'm going to do a great jumper.

RAW states that you gain a +4 to jump for every 10ft above 30ft movement.

330ft = 33 x 4 = +132 to jump

23 base skill @ level 20
+90 for 3 magic items of +30 to jump
+132 for speed

= 245 to jump

+ a natural 20 (in my game group, we count it as a 30 for skill checks)

= 275 to jump

or a 275 foot jump reaching 65 foot in height at the peak.

If you're going to use my "go really fast" Builds, use the most up to date one (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=13077126#post13077126) please. Its much faster :smallwink:

PMing my Build to you now, Vilpich

EDIT: This is not my entry, I just want to write up a jumper now.

Using my speed build (in the link), filling the empty feats with Skill Focus: Jump and Acrobatic.

From speed, you get a +204 bonus to jump. When Sprinting, that becomes +2040 to Jump. 26 Ranks (Gold Dragon Bloodline), along with the +2 synergy bonus from Tumble, the +2 Bloodline Bonus, a Potion of Guidance of the Avatar for +20 (Competence), a Potion of Heroism for +2 (Morale), a Wand of CL10 Divine Insight for +15 (Insight), a Wand of CL20 Improvisation for +10 (Luck) and a Jump Spell cast at CL9 (Beads of Karma) for +30 Enhancement, that ends up being a +2147

Replace a level of Fleet Runner of Ehlonna (its not needed, the Speed Boost and Domain come at level 1, I just took 2nd for Evasion) with Exemplar for +4 to Jump and the ability to take 10 on Use Magic Device and Jump.

So, with a jump check of 2161, before factoring in strength, you can make a Long Jump that carries you 2161ft which'll get you 540.25ft up in the air.

Put an 18 in Strength, Change the Barbarian to normal Rage, buy a +6 Strenght Item and five Wishes (or a single Candle of Invocation) for +5 Inherent Strength, do some jiggery pokery with UMD and buy a Scroll of CL20 Giant's Size, to become Colossal and gain +16 Strength as a Size Bonus. Buy a Scroll of Summon Nature's Ally VI to summon the heaviest Baleen Whale (the highest recorded weight for a Baleen Whale in the real world is apparently 172,330kg or 380,000lbs, so that's what I'll assume we've got).

As a Colossal character with a Strength Score of 54, you have a +22 Strength and can carry this Whale as a Medium Load (-3 to your Jump Check, watch out :smalltongue:). Pick it up, and jump as high as you can. Drop the whale on your enemy, for 1920d6 no-save damage.

For extra style points, make it a scroll of Summon Monster VII instead, and get a Celestial Baleen Whale. Tell it to Smite Evil.

[kulosle]

The lightning thief can be used to get a higher jump. If you get you Sleight of hand high enough you can teleport someone 10ft as a free action. You do this to your double from the trickery devotion feat. He does it to you in return, because you can command it as a free action. You rail gun yourself around the world and then jump. Not a single point in jump and you can jump as high as you want.

[Golden Ladybug]

Oh wow, that's amazing. I've never looked at the epic uses of Sleight of Hand before now, but damn. DC100 (+20 to make it a free action :smallwink:) isn't that hard to hit, unless SoH is seriously lacking in boosting support.

I like that a lot :smallcool:

[Tr011]

From speed, you get a +204 bonus to jump. When Sprinting, that becomes +2040 to Jump.

Sprinting doesn't enhance your speed, and thus doesn't increase your modifier to run.


Pick it up, and jump as high as you can. Drop the whale on your enemy, for 1920d6 no-save damage.

Check out the rules compendium. Falling objects are capped at 20d6.

[Golden Ladybug]

Sprinting doesn't enhance your speed, and thus doesn't increase your modifier to run.

It does when you have the Cheetah's Speed feat, which allows you to sprint at 10x your normal speed once per hour :smallamused:

As such, Yertle the Turtle's (what?) normal speed of 515ft becomes 5150ft. Speed has increased, ergo, jump bonus increases. However, I think I'm not allowed to make a jump check when I use that ability, as I'm fairly sure its a full round action

*Buys Yertle an item of Sudden Leap*


Check out the rules compendium. Falling objects are capped at 20d6.

Sorry, but I don't own the Rules Compendium :smallfrown:

However, based on the SRD, Falling Damage from height caps at 20d6, but damage from the objects weight is dependant on how heavy it is (every 200lbs adding an additional 1d6 damage), so by that logic, it works fine.

But if the Rules Compendium changes that, the noble sport of dropping Whales on people has lost something precious.

[Tr011]

The regular rules for jumping are (according to the PHB):
you are human with 30ft. so you do not gain any bonus to jumping for speed, you have to run so the DCs doesn't get doubled but if you run you don't gain any special bonus to jump.
The Run feat increases your run speed, and the only benefit is +4 for running start. If you continue that, you would get a +24 to jump for moving 10x your speed instead of 4x.

[Golden Ladybug]

Hmm, I see what you're saying, but I think my point is valid as well. Based on the language of the jump skill, you bonus is determined by your speed in comparison to 30ft


Your Jump check is modified by your speed. If your speed is 30 feet then no modifier based on speed applies to the check. If your speed is less than 30 feet, you take a -6 penalty for every 10 feet of speed less than 30 feet. If your speed is greater than 30 feet, you gain a +4 bonus for every 10 feet beyond 30 feet.

While using the Cheetah's Sprint feat, Yertle's speed is 5150ft, which is significantly faster than 30ft. Jumping is taken as part of an action, and since the action in question is Yertle making a charge at a speed of 5150ft, his jump modifier is increased accordingly.

I might be wrong about that though (It's happened before, many a time :smallwink:). I suppose I can be happy with Yertle simply being able to sprint two kilometres in six seconds.

One day I will think of a way to drop whales on people that is completely rules compliant...one day :smallfrown: Although I'll make sure to never buy the Rules Compendium, so any time someone tells me the damage caps out at 20d6 I can ignore them in my blissful ignorance

[kulosle]

Again lightning thief (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=142080) can teleport himself into the air too, then summon a whale from a scroll then teleport your selves back down before you start falling or balance yourself on a cloud if you also optimized balance. And 100 is an easy DC to make well actually its 90 because of a feat that reduces the cost of making a SoH check a free action to a -10 instead of a -20.

So most of these things frown upon 1 level dips. Not very stylish. Is that the case here? Also what is the point buy? Also how stylish are bloodlines?

[Doughnut Master]

So, 2 questions:

1. When is the deadline?
2. How much detail do you want?

Right now, I've got a good skeleton that shows what skills I've worked on and how, but if you want more flesh, that'll take a bit.

[kulosle]

And I would ask his second question again, and do thinks that don't matter like what i'm doing with the rest of my skill points matter?

[kulosle]

I felt like this needed a bumb. And a check to see if there is still interest in this.

[Doughnut Master]

I submitted, but I'd really like to see what other people came up with.

[Golden Ladybug]

Yeah, I've put in my entry as well, but I'm not quite sure if this contest will live... :smallfrown:

[Empedocles]

lol I'm still trying to keep it alive. Can we make the deadline May 5th?

[Rubik]

lol I'm still trying to keep it alive. Can we make the deadline May 5th?You're late. [/Threadcromancy]