Alleran
2012-04-16, 01:37 AM
Long story short, I'm looking at a way that a 21st level wizard might go about creating an eternal, immortal body to become as close to a perfect being as Pun-Pun will allow. (You may choose to read the preceding sentence as if it was said by Father in FMA.) To outline the relevant quotes:
"To give a creature spell-like abilities, apply other epic seeds to the epic spell that replicate the desired ability. To give the creature a supernatural or extraordinary ability rather than a spell-like ability, double the cost of the relevant seed." (Conjure seed)
"For each normal extraordinary ability or supernatural ability granted to the transformed creature, increase the Spellcraft DC by +10." (Transform seed)
"The conjure seed can be used in conjunction with the life and fortify seeds for an epic spell that creates an entirely new creature, if made permanent." (Conjure seed)
Now, based on this, it would seem quite plausible to create an entirely new creature. Let's say a dragon, because everybody loves dragons, except this is going to be a brand new one-of-a-kind species of dragon. Give it all the usual bells and whistles. Spellcasting, wings, and so on (no supernatural abilities, though - I'll get to that). Then, you could give it a Wish at-will spell-like ability for some cost I don't really know (though Transform implies that you can add any extraordinary or supernatural ability to the creature you're transforming or transforming into, for the low cost of +10 to the DC), unless somebody would have a ballpark figure based on the "other epic spell seeds" that replicate it. It'd be handy if somebody knows it?
You could also tack on Shapechange at will, Time Stop at will, Astral Projection at will, and so on and so forth.
And then you make them all into extraordinary abilities by doubling the cost of the relevant seed (just the seed, so that's only +20-30 on average), whatever that seed might be. Suddenly things get interesting.
You'd have Wish, Miracle, Shapechange, Time Stop, all those lovely spells as (Ex) rather than relying on magic (and so could laugh off antimagic fields as they tried to stop your wishes and miracles). So you have a brand new creature, armed and armoured with everything you can possibly think of (Tarrasque Regeneration... why not? Planar Bubble at will, sure!).
Then, all you have to do is make sure your brand new creature has very few points of INT, WIS and CHA (really high physical scores, though, always a good thing), so it's Will save will be terrible (alternately, knock it unconscious). And then you only have to UPD a True Mind Switch to swap bodies:
"You gain the extraordinary special attacks and qualities of your assumed body, but you do not gain supernatural or spell-like abilities."
You don't get the (Su) or SLAs of your new form, but you do get the (Ex) qualities. Which, thanks to your creating the creature from scratch, will include things like Wish at will, Miracle at will, Shapechange at will, Tarrasque Regeneration, and all those marvelous toys that make the Fighter cry because he wasted his 21st level feat on Armour Skin while you picked Epic Spellcasting.
Now, you can't be forced back into your old body. You can, in fact, kill off your old body and only lose one level (which, if you've made it to 22nd level by that point, is peanuts anyway, since you won't be losing your Epic Spellcasting). And you will survive the experience in your new, godlike dragon form that may just make the heavens themselves (minus Pun-Pun) quake in terror.
Is there anything wrong with this process, before I continue with the issue I'm trying to work on at the moment?
Anyway, the problem that I haven't figured out how to get around is the creation of the new body. Because it is a permanent magical effect (happening through making the Epic spell permanent), it is liable to be dispelled by a good enough spellcaster, which could un-create your new form while your mind is inhabiting it. That probably wouldn't be very pleasant. This can be mitigated somewhat if you're a Dweomerkeeper and make it a (Su) effect, but that would still potentially be canceled out in antimagic fields, because it's still a (Su) permanent magical effect, and can thus be suppressed.
What I'm looking for is some way to get around the issue entirely and turn the target for True Mind Switch into something that can't be uncreated that way. I'll take "reducing the risk as much as possible" if I absolutely have to, but I'd prefer to get around it entirely.
Does anybody have any ideas?
"To give a creature spell-like abilities, apply other epic seeds to the epic spell that replicate the desired ability. To give the creature a supernatural or extraordinary ability rather than a spell-like ability, double the cost of the relevant seed." (Conjure seed)
"For each normal extraordinary ability or supernatural ability granted to the transformed creature, increase the Spellcraft DC by +10." (Transform seed)
"The conjure seed can be used in conjunction with the life and fortify seeds for an epic spell that creates an entirely new creature, if made permanent." (Conjure seed)
Now, based on this, it would seem quite plausible to create an entirely new creature. Let's say a dragon, because everybody loves dragons, except this is going to be a brand new one-of-a-kind species of dragon. Give it all the usual bells and whistles. Spellcasting, wings, and so on (no supernatural abilities, though - I'll get to that). Then, you could give it a Wish at-will spell-like ability for some cost I don't really know (though Transform implies that you can add any extraordinary or supernatural ability to the creature you're transforming or transforming into, for the low cost of +10 to the DC), unless somebody would have a ballpark figure based on the "other epic spell seeds" that replicate it. It'd be handy if somebody knows it?
You could also tack on Shapechange at will, Time Stop at will, Astral Projection at will, and so on and so forth.
And then you make them all into extraordinary abilities by doubling the cost of the relevant seed (just the seed, so that's only +20-30 on average), whatever that seed might be. Suddenly things get interesting.
You'd have Wish, Miracle, Shapechange, Time Stop, all those lovely spells as (Ex) rather than relying on magic (and so could laugh off antimagic fields as they tried to stop your wishes and miracles). So you have a brand new creature, armed and armoured with everything you can possibly think of (Tarrasque Regeneration... why not? Planar Bubble at will, sure!).
Then, all you have to do is make sure your brand new creature has very few points of INT, WIS and CHA (really high physical scores, though, always a good thing), so it's Will save will be terrible (alternately, knock it unconscious). And then you only have to UPD a True Mind Switch to swap bodies:
"You gain the extraordinary special attacks and qualities of your assumed body, but you do not gain supernatural or spell-like abilities."
You don't get the (Su) or SLAs of your new form, but you do get the (Ex) qualities. Which, thanks to your creating the creature from scratch, will include things like Wish at will, Miracle at will, Shapechange at will, Tarrasque Regeneration, and all those marvelous toys that make the Fighter cry because he wasted his 21st level feat on Armour Skin while you picked Epic Spellcasting.
Now, you can't be forced back into your old body. You can, in fact, kill off your old body and only lose one level (which, if you've made it to 22nd level by that point, is peanuts anyway, since you won't be losing your Epic Spellcasting). And you will survive the experience in your new, godlike dragon form that may just make the heavens themselves (minus Pun-Pun) quake in terror.
Is there anything wrong with this process, before I continue with the issue I'm trying to work on at the moment?
Anyway, the problem that I haven't figured out how to get around is the creation of the new body. Because it is a permanent magical effect (happening through making the Epic spell permanent), it is liable to be dispelled by a good enough spellcaster, which could un-create your new form while your mind is inhabiting it. That probably wouldn't be very pleasant. This can be mitigated somewhat if you're a Dweomerkeeper and make it a (Su) effect, but that would still potentially be canceled out in antimagic fields, because it's still a (Su) permanent magical effect, and can thus be suppressed.
What I'm looking for is some way to get around the issue entirely and turn the target for True Mind Switch into something that can't be uncreated that way. I'll take "reducing the risk as much as possible" if I absolutely have to, but I'd prefer to get around it entirely.
Does anybody have any ideas?