[3.5e Welknair Craziness] Turning it on its Head

[Welknair]

With the creation of my new game Fourthland, I've been thinking weirdly about a lot of things. Its kinda required to play the game. As a side-effect, I've started questioning a lot of the premises present in D&D 3.5e. What if we changed the basic way the world worked? What if cooking cakes gave you exp, not slaying orcs? The most powerful adventurers would all own bakeries.

So I suppose, this thread, if there's interest in it, will be me coming up with random crazy changes to D&D 3.5, then puzzling out how that would affect the world, Tippyverse-style.


A couple short ones off the top of my currently scrambled head:

1. Switch the key stats of various classes. Make Wizard casting Str based, and Barbarian Rage have an int-based duration. The first works a deal cleaner, and results in the Punchomancer, mage-king of Punching. The latter still leaves the Barbarian a bit MAD, since Int isn't added to damage or attack rolls. A wis-based Bard would be an interesting thing.

2. Give EXP for odd things. Like the cakes above. "Level Grinding" is no longer about the 4-encounter work day, but rather about doing whatever this odd task is. You encounter the problem of players wanting to do nothing BUT that task, in leiue of proper adventure, but there's ways around it. What if the task requires special materials that must be quested for? What if there's a limited supply, and they're falling into the hands of Evil?

3. Switch up the basic laws of physics. Alright, from now on all move speeds are doubled. This is a simple, yet far-reaching change. It is musch easier to close with ranged enemies, reducing their effectiveness. A Move action gets you twice as far, making it more appealing than before. In some circumstances, this may lead to said Move actions being quite favored.

4. Have "Intentional Gravity". Gravity points wherever people want it to, falling at the normal rate. Switching directions is a move action, and includes the usual fall distance for that round. If you have a large enough space, you can hover in air by switching back and forth. The world may be a sphere, flat, or perhaps something more peculiar, like the inside of a cube.

5. Each morning, characters can spend an hours to reassign all of their class levels. All skills are treated as class skills and everyone has 4+Int skill points per level. This could perhaps be expanded upon by having each player have access to a limited number of classes. Perhaps have said limitation keyed off of the tier of the class, so players with lower tier classes have more of them.

6. There are no more levels. Only templates.Whenever a player gains a new level, they may either get a new Template with a LA of +1, or trade out old ones to make advantage of the available level. Perhaps have a basic hit die for each LA, so people aren't running around in single digits all the time.

7. Magic warps the world around you, making things more and more random. Whenever a spell is cast, add its level to the "Warp" of the area. Whenever a d20 would be rolled for anything within the area, flip a coin. Heads, the Warp is added, tails the Warp is subtracted from the roll. Warp goes down by 1 each minute.

Things like that. What do you guys think? Should I come up with more? Anyone want to contribute some of your own?

[Amechra]

I was actually thinking of the template one myself; it would be quite interesting, I think.

And one that I would like to include is:

Actions that benefit just you are weaker.

Because that would make the game more team oriented.

I mean, how different would DnD be if enemies needed to be flanked to have spells cast on them? Or they had to be ganged up on to be attacked at all?

[SamBurke]

Well that changes everything... Honestly, with a few changes like that, you create a puzzle game on the level of Portal: everyone can use gravity changes, perhaps, and then Warp, and you have a fantastic mini-game to use with your players.

Perhaps they venture onto a plane of chaos or something...

Actually, playing a game of that would be a good way for anyone to train non-linear thinking...

Totally stealing this as a mage's sport.

[Welknair]

I was actually thinking of the template one myself; it would be quite interesting, I think.

And one that I would like to include is:

Actions that benefit just you are weaker.

Because that would make the game more team oriented.

I mean, how different would DnD be if enemies needed to be flanked to have spells cast on them? Or they had to be ganged up on to be attacked at all?

Yup, you've got the idea. What if spells had their CL reduced by 1/5th if they didn't directly benefit allies?


Well that changes everything... Honestly, with a few changes like that, you create a puzzle game on the level of Portal: everyone can use gravity changes, perhaps, and then Warp, and you have a fantastic mini-game to use with your players.

Perhaps they venture onto a plane of chaos or something...

Actually, playing a game of that would be a good way for anyone to train non-linear thinking...

Totally stealing this as a mage's sport.

Post the rules when you're done!



I think you guys have caught on. Really, this is about tweaking the fundaments of the games. The things most people never touch. These random "Tweaks" can be used solo, or in conjunction with one another. The types of worlds resulting from these Tweaks are alien and bizarre. And can be downright awesome, if done right.

[Amechra]

Why does everyone have to play the same character every session?

Why can't the group keep a "stable" of characters, that you randomly pick from each time you sit down and play?

[SamBurke]

Ok, rules.


Garzen

Game is played in a three hundred yard cubed area, on the plane of Chaos. Due to this, the local gravity is shiftable at will. Each player starts at one of the eight corners, and the goal is to tag out everyone else.

Each turn, as a move action, you may "shift" the gravity, creating a three hundred yard column of changed gravity, which carries you to your destination point. Upon stopping, you take fall damage as normal. These can only be placed parallel to the sides of the arena, IE, as flat lines.

You may take one tag attempt per turn as a swift action, a touch attack. If you've shifted gravity this turn, you take a 20% stackable miss chance due to disorientation.

As a standard action, you can "throw" a tag in a vague ball of gravity, with a range increment of ten feet.

The trick to all of this is that each time you shift gravity, the shift stays: thus, by the tenth turn, you have created up to twenty gravity reversals. Whenever you cross paths with one, you instantly divert to that path. If there are three, you fall downward.

Now, it seems pretty simple on the front end, but, there's a lot of strategy going on. Besides that, it takes a good bit of coordination to try to do that. GMs can and should use penalties for being in motion, disoriented, sickened, unbalanced, dizzy, etc, etc, etc, to affect the game.

How's that?

[SamBurke]

Why does everyone have to play the same character every session?

Why can't the group keep a "stable" of characters, that you randomly pick from each time you sit down and play?

I think it'd be cool if you switched minds through the bodies randomly throughout the game.

Every time a certain villain showed up, everyone would trade sheets.

[Welknair]

Why does everyone have to play the same character every session?

Why can't the group keep a "stable" of characters, that you randomly pick from each time you sit down and play?

I've thought of this myself. It would also be a little easier to deal with new players joining the group or players leaving. I think the problem is that people take pride in their character. Under normal circumstances, they don't want people "messing" with them. Not to mention, can you really trust your players to play a character as they were meant to be played, as opposed to as they would normally play it?


Ok, rules.


Garzen

Game is played in a three hundred yard cubed area, on the plane of Chaos. Due to this, the local gravity is shiftable at will. Each player starts at one of the eight corners, and the goal is to tag out everyone else.

Each turn, as a move action, you may "shift" the gravity, creating a three hundred yard column of changed gravity, which carries you to your destination point. Upon stopping, you take fall damage as normal. These can only be placed parallel to the sides of the arena, IE, as flat lines.

You may take one tag attempt per turn as a swift action, a touch attack. If you've shifted gravity this turn, you take a 20% stackable miss chance due to disorientation.

As a standard action, you can "throw" a tag in a vague ball of gravity, with a range increment of ten feet.

The trick to all of this is that each time you shift gravity, the shift stays: thus, by the tenth turn, you have created up to twenty gravity reversals. Whenever you cross paths with one, you instantly divert to that path. If there are three, you fall downward.

Now, it seems pretty simple on the front end, but, there's a lot of strategy going on. Besides that, it takes a good bit of coordination to try to do that. GMs can and should use penalties for being in motion, disoriented, sickened, unbalanced, dizzy, etc, etc, etc, to affect the game.

How's that?

That is deliciously amazing.

I have a few questions, though:
1. How do you track this?? 6 battle grids? How do you show mid-air characters?
2. What other actions are you allowed to take? You mentioned it was a mage-sport. Can they use spells?

[SamBurke]

That is deliciously amazing.

I have a few questions, though:
1. How do you track this?? 6 battle grids? How do you show mid-air characters?
2. What other actions are you allowed to take? You mentioned it was a mage-sport. Can they use spells?

My only thought on how to track this is space chess. And/or Minecraft. Maybe a graphing thing? This would actually be a really fun game in Minecraft, if you could figure out how to code it. Also, there *should* be few people ending turns in midair, though it could be done...

One thing you could do is create three panels, each of which is one axis, labeled numbers/letters/Greek, I suppose... Each gravity column would be marked as whatever square it occupied, and what direction it goes. Whenever you pass that square, you redirect.

A lot of imagination is required.

As to actions, most spells are banned, other than a few area control spells. Because creating walls of ice for people to smash into whilst falling three hundred yards sideways is just awesome. The reason for the ban is just sportsmanship, really. It allows non-mages a chance to play the game, too.

[Welknair]

My only thought on how to track this is space chess. And/or Minecraft. Maybe a graphing thing? This would actually be a really fun game in Minecraft, if you could figure out how to code it. Also, there *should* be few people ending turns in midair, though it could be done...

One thing you could do is create three panels, each of which is one axis, labeled numbers/letters/Greek, I suppose... Each gravity column would be marked as whatever square it occupied, and what direction it goes. Whenever you pass that square, you redirect.

A lot of imagination is required.

As to actions, most spells are banned, other than a few area control spells. Because creating walls of ice for people to smash into whilst falling three hundred yards sideways is just awesome. The reason for the ban is just sportsmanship, really. It allows non-mages a chance to play the game, too.

Hmm.. It would be possible, I suppose.

How about these:
1. What happens when two Gravity Columns intersect?
2. What if you tried adding a fourth dimension axis? For the heck of it.

[Tarvon000]

I've thought of this myself. It would also be a little easier to deal with new players joining the group or players leaving. I think the problem is that people take pride in their character. Under normal circumstances, they don't want people "messing" with them. Not to mention, can you really trust your players to play a character as they were meant to be played, as opposed to as they would normally play it?

What if everyone had their own character and there was also a stable of additional characters? I can see this working in a campaign with only 2 or 3 players.

Now that Minecraft has been brought up . . . what if everyone could move a 5-foot cube of nonliving matter every round as a free action? And these cubes ignored gravity?

[SamBurke]

Hmm.. It would be possible, I suppose.

How about these:
1. What happens when two Gravity Columns intersect?
2. What if you tried adding a fourth dimension axis? For the heck of it.

As mentioned, when you intersect with another column, you change courses onto that one. Should there be three (the largest possible number), you go downwards.

FOUR DIMENSIONS? http://static.fjcdn.com/comments/Another+thing+to+blow+your+mind+If+a+program+were+ _fd2140ebc47fed75f7f18b8cd0566adb.jpg

[Welknair]

As mentioned, when you intersect with another column, you change courses onto that one. Should there be three (the largest possible number), you go downwards.

FOUR DIMENSIONS? http://static.fjcdn.com/comments/Another+thing+to+blow+your+mind+If+a+program+were+ _fd2140ebc47fed75f7f18b8cd0566adb.jpg

I guess that'd be simplest, for the intersections. I suppose I was wondering whether you'd end up traveling at a 45 degree angle or something.

And yes, FOUR DIMENSIONS. It is sad how much of my free time I've spent trying to imagine what four spacial dimensions would look and operate like. It's.. interesting.

Google "Imagining the Tenth Dimension" if you want your brain to explode entirely.

[Amechra]

Temporal gravity. Now that would be badass.

What if everyone could travel dimensionally with pretty much no effort? So you could get rid of a ghost by walking into the Ethereal Plane and punching it in the face, or some such awesome?

[SamBurke]

Temporal gravity. Now that would be badass.

What if everyone could travel dimensionally with pretty much no effort? So you could get rid of a ghost by walking into the Ethereal Plane and punching it in the face, or some such awesome?

That sounds like a Seraphi homebrew waiting to be made... where did I put my scroll of Summon Homebrewer, again?

[Welknair]

Temporal gravity. Now that would be badass.

All the yes. Now I can't stop thinking about it. It would probably work best with at least two temporal dimensions, then you have timelines traveling in this space, attracted towards different temporal-gravitic entities. WEIRD things would happen when they cross..


What if everyone could travel dimensionally with pretty much no effort? So you could get rid of a ghost by walking into the Ethereal Plane and punching it in the face, or some such awesome?

1. Falcon PUNCH!
2. "Go to Hell!" "I would, but I just got back."

[Amechra]

I actually had an idea (after reading the Oceans Unmoving arc of Sluggy Freelance) for a massive dimension of criss-crossing streams of time flowing, pooling in lakes where everyone actually lived.

[radmelon]

Oh my gog, Oceans Unmoving was one of my favourite sci-fi settings/concepts ever. I've been wondering about running a game in it ever since I read it.