Ability Assignment, is the bang worth the buck?

[Yuukale]

So guys, finally the FR game I was going to join a couple of months ago became real.

I rolled the stats and I'm with a slight doubt about the assignment of the stats:

This is a lvl 2 conjurer (conj, incantatrix-soon-to-be, etc)

She's a Sun Elf, bonus and penalty already factored in below:

STR:13
DEX: 14
CON: 11
INT: 20
WIS: 16 (non-debatable, fluff reasons I assigned this here)
CHA: 13

My point is: if I put my 14 to my CON, I'll get a 12 for CON, whereas a 13 for DEX.

Is it really worth it +1 to CON as opposed to a +2 to DEX ?
I already abrupt jaunt outta trouble, plus mage armor, plus shield... While a +2 to dex will help me hit with my touch spells way more.

So, giants, what's your opinion?

[Emperor Tippy]

I prefer Dex. It just tends to be more useful. Absent some specific builds, a wizard is never going to survive more than 1 hit from any reasonably close to equal CR enemy. That being the case, HP is irrelevant for you. So Con basically helps your Fort save; I don't think it's worth it but you might.

[Emperor Tippy]

I prefer Dex. It just tends to be more useful. Absent some specific builds, a wizard is never going to survive more than 1 hit from any reasonably close to equal CR enemy. That being the case, HP is irrelevant for you. So Con basically helps your Fort save; I don't think it's worth it but you might.

[Malachei]

Is it really worth it +1 to CON as opposed to a +2 to DEX ?
I already abrupt jaunt outta trouble, plus mage armor, plus shield... While a +2 to dex will help me hit with my touch spells way more.

So, giants, what's your opinion?

So you're effectively deciding on +2 Dex vs. +1 Dex AND +1 Con. I'd always go for the latter.

Even if you want to play a ray specialist, you're rolling ranged touch attacks, and these should hit whether your ability gives a +1 or +2 bonus. If you miss with a +1 bonus, you should look for other ways to hit (seeking ray (+4) just being one).

At mid and higher levels, you'll need to survive area attacks, and a 1d4 HD character with no CON bonus is a dead man walking.

Also, let's do the math:

Assume enemies have a touch AC of 14 (which is a high assumption for many low-level situations). Your BAB is +1, you need a 12 with +1 Dex (hitting 45% of the time), with +2 Dex you need a 11, hitting 50% of the time. That's a 11,11% improvement.

On first level, the additional HP is +25%, but on subsequent levels, the +1 CON bonus equals +40% HP on each level (assuming average rolls).

[Emperor Tippy]

The percents are highly misleading. +1 Con modifier is 20 extra HP at level 20. Or 10 extra HP at level 10. Or 5 extra HP at level 5.

That might, if you are facing a weak opponent and get lucky, be one extra hit that you can take before dieing in a fight.

[Malachei]

Quite the opposite: +1 on a 20-sided attack roll is highly misleading. You can get attack bonuses much easier than actual HP. And if you're building a character who is relying on fake HP, and they go (dispel, AMF), you die.

Also, targeting the wizard is a smart tactic for an enemy. On low levels, this often mean archers, on higher levels this means area attacks. Unless your DM is pulling punches. If he's not, you need everything you get. And yes, +25% HP every level can make the difference between going down or not to an area or ranged attack.

Your AC is much easier to get high, even at low levels the OP has pointed out he has mage armor and shield.

[Emperor Tippy]

You are going to die if you are hit pretty much whatever your HP is as a wizard.

Let's say you have 24 Con after items and max every HP roll. At level 20 you have 220 HP. A fighter with the same Con score and average HP on every dice will have 247 HP. The wizard with average HP will have 191 HP.

Give the wizard a more reasonable con score of 18 and his average HP at level 20 is 131.

You are going to die in 1-2 hits regardless of your Con mod, so it's dump-able.

The only way you get a respectable HP total on a wizard is with FMI.

[Malachei]

I prefer Dex. It just tends to be more useful. Absent some specific builds, a wizard is never going to survive more than 1 hit from any reasonably close to equal CR enemy. That being the case, HP is irrelevant for you. So Con basically helps your Fort save; I don't think it's worth it but you might.

As a wizard, if you are taking damage from a melee enemy of equal CR, you have made several mistakes.


You are going to die if you are hit pretty much whatever your HP is as a wizard.

Let's say you have 24 Con after items and max every HP roll. At level 20 you have 220 HP. A fighter with the same Con score and average HP on every dice will have 247 HP. The wizard with average HP will have 191 HP.

Give the wizard a more reasonable con score of 18 and his average HP at level 20 is 131.

You are going to die in 1-2 hits regardless of your Con mod, so it's dump-able.

The only way you get a respectable HP total on a wizard is with FMI.

I think this is wrong, and a theoretical view. Comparing HPs to fighters is not the point. As a wizard, you're not taking the same damage as your fighter. If you do, you've made several mistakes.

Your HP make a difference on all levels of play. In actual game play, your rogue may accidentally trigger an area trap or you happen to be in an area attack you could not avoid to be in. On lower levels, an enemy archer will not cause enough damage to drop you in one hit.

This is not about the melee attack from a CR-equal enemy that will likely drop you. Your fighter should be between you and this enemy. This is about the other collateral damage coming in.

And yes, even at level 5, in his case, this is 19 HP versus 14 HP. Versus +1 on ranged attacks... again, if you fail to hit on your ranged touch attacks without the +1, without a way to significantly boost your attack rolls, then you're relying on ray spells too much.

[Gavinfoxx]

STR:13
DEX: 14
CON: 11
INT: 20
WIS: 16 (non-debatable, fluff reasons I assigned this here)
CHA: 13

Lets see...

with Wizards, I put Int > Con > Dex > rest.

With even a very low, 22 point buy, the handbook suggests an 18 int and a 14 con, and ignore the rest. It suggests this for a reason! Also, are you a Conjurer or a Focused Specialist Conjurer?

[Tengu_temp]

For a fragile wizard, +1 HP/level increases your chance of survival more than +1 AC. Get that Con.

[Lonely Tylenol]

Your DEX also affects your AC and initiative, the former of which is more essential to survival in early levels, and the latter of which in later levels (or all levels, really). On top of that, it affects (however minutely) your Reflex save, which is more likely to save you from damage-based effects (and thus prevent HP loss) than your Fort save.

What it comes down to is: do you want to be hit by an attack or damaging spell effect less often, or have a slightly greater chance of withstanding it if you do?

[Malachei]

Your DEX also affects your AC and initiative, the former of which is more essential to survival in early levels, and the latter of which in later levels (or all levels, really). On top of that, it affects (however minutely) your Reflex save, which is more likely to save you from damage-based effects (and thus prevent HP loss) than your Fort save.

What it comes down to is: do you want to be hit by an attack or damaging spell effect less often, or have a slightly greater chance of withstanding it if you do?

Again, it is much easier to boost your AC. Of course, it is also much easier to boost your initiative (nerveskitter, as one example). It is also much easier to boost your Reflex save than increasing HP. And if you increase HP by using temp. HP or Con-item-enhanced HP, these present a big risk when dispelled or in an AMF. I would not like to rely on those.

[Mahrke]

People seem to think that CON is there on a wizard to help you survive the full attack from an ogre or something.

No.

CON on a wizard is to help you survive things like being hit by an archer when protection from arrows or wind wall isn't saving your hide. Its there to negate some of the damage from a fireball that you get caught in. Its to buffer the damage you just took from the three or four attacks you just took from their kobold minions. Of course you aren't going to live through a full attack off an ogre just because you have 5 more HP at level 5...but it might save you against the 1d8 damage that guy with the longbow is doing.

Pre-emptive backsass: No, don't tell me "You shouldn't get hit, you're a wizard." Real wizards in real games don't have protective spells up 24/7, and, yes, they -do- rely on their team to play interference for them. You need to be able to take incidental damage, so that your team can focus their efforts on the real problems.