Xaktsaroth
2012-04-16, 04:40 PM
Hi, I'm Xak! A relative newcomer to these forums and figured the best way to introduce myself is to do what I do best: Smash chucky themey goodness with tasty mechanical crunch. Enjoy!
This is a reposting of one of my old threads from 339 that seemed to garner some fandom, but, I've gone through all the builds and revamped them or even posted some alternate versions in some cases. Got a lot of PM's about alternate versions actually.
Going to do this one guy at a time, rather then club you guys with 12ish+ builds at once, but hell, if you want me to finish and post one of them before the other. let me know. :P
Will also be cross-posting this thread on the other board I view when I'm all finished. :D
As before:
1) All of these guys are CR based, so the numbers may appear a little off the normal. They all have at least 20 HD, but to make them a bit stronger, I tacked on a template to fluff out their difficultly without getting into epic rules.
2) The builds are naked builds, meaning all stats and comments listed are assuming there's no equipment affecting stats and such. Every player is going to have their own preference, and telling a player to use Manual's or stat boosting items is simply redundant, as everyone would anyway.
That being said, I have included a small list of equipment for each build that I recommend that not everyone might think of.
3) I added a little blurb about how I came up with the idea and what restrictions I placed on myself when making it, for those of you interested in that kinda thing.
4) I took the time to preemtively answer some questions about the builds that I expect will come up.
5) I even went as far as to make one character build use no specific campaign setting material(Necrosis, Original), one use only Greyhawk+Eberron(Xxyxx, Original), and one use only Greyhawk+FR(Andariel, Original). Something for everyone!
6) Lastly, I'll even be a nice guy and toss in a ECL 20 version of each one, just in case your lucky enough to get into an evil campaign. :)
So, without further adieu, the Triad of Shadows:
Necrosis, Lord of Shadow (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=13081297&postcount=2)
Andariel, Siren of Shadow
Xxyxx, Stalker of Shadow
Eclipse, Herald of the End
Woe, Speaker of the End
Deathless, Fury of the End
Assault, Invoker of the Black Dawn
Seethe, Horror of the Black Dawn
Uzi, Devourer of the Black Dawn
Xaktsaroth
2012-04-16, 04:41 PM
Necrosis, Lord of Shadow - CR 23
http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/1280x1024q90/538/zVJdsG.jpg
"Do NOT speak to me of virtue, of salvation, of sacrifice: The gods have had an eternity to build paradise; Their time has come to pass."
Background:
Inside the unusually circular throne room is a single throne, atop a short staircase, both seemingly carved out of the same piece of dull grey stone. The throne completely lacks any decoration. There is a narrow pathway to the throne, made of the same grey stone as the rest of the room. The pathway appears to be the only floor space in the entire room, the rest of the "floor" appears to be a pit filled about 5 feet shy from the top of random bones. Sitting on the throne is a hooded apparition that seems strangely solid, despite the wispiness of his outline.
Fighter: "MONSTER! YOU KILLED MY BROTHER IN TERMIL VILLAGE, AND I'VE COME FOR YOUR HEAD SO HE CAN FINALLY REST IN PEACE!"
Necrosis: "Monster? Me? I'm the monster?"
Necrosis shifts in his throne.
Cleric: "By the Light of Pelor, I will not give him a chance to beguile us!" *turns undead* - Fails. Necrosis really doesn't seem to react.
Necrosis slowly stands.
Wizard readies a spell.
Bard: "Is this truly the one who killed my husband?"
Necrosis starts to desend staircase.
Wizard panics, fires off Disintegration.
Necrosis casually backhands the ray away.
Necrosis: "Spare me your remedial incantations, mage."
Necrosis is literally face to face with the Fighter at this point. Fighter holding on a readied action.
Necrosis: "I am the monster? You cut your way through my castle, murdering my guards to confront me, and I am the monster? The two guards you murdered by the throneroom door were Tatal and Emern, brothers who joined my cause when the church of Pelor abandoned them to defend their farm from a necromancer who lost control of his creations."
Necrosis begins to sound fairly irrate at this point.
Necrosis: "Did any of you, in your cabrera of murderers cloaked in light-bound righteousness see the sickness that plagues your mindset? The gods must die if this broken world is to survive, your presense here only solidifies that point."
Necrosis turns from the fighter, and starts walking towards the cleric. Fighter takes his readied action and attacks. Sword passes through Necrosis harmlessly. Necrosis doesn't seem to notice.
His voice sounds quite dangerous at this point.
Necrosis: "And your kind sickens me most of all. Enslaved to your god because you lack the spine to question them. Does your armour protect you from the screams of the people being raped and murdered in the alleys behind your temple, or does the sound of coins clicking in your coffers render them silent? Do the cries of hunger from your parishioners starving in the street lull you to sleep at night, belly full with game from half a world away? At least the gods of darkness have the decency to not hide their replusive nature from this world."
Cleric: "How dare you! Pelor would never...."
Necrosis: "Pelor would never lift his self-righteous finger to help someone he didn't think he could convert or exploit. Period."
Necrosis: "You, Fighter, I destroyed Termil village. I don't deny this, but have you ever asked why? Did you think the deaths of 4 of my messengers would not draw my ire?"
Fighter: "I..., no.....It's because you're evil! The people wouldn't bend to your will, so you slaughtered them!"
Necrosis: "Good and evil are perspectives I no longer concern myself with."
Necrosis Ascended: God Shard
Build:
Lawful Evil Human(Shadow Creature Template)
32 pt. buy
Str: 10
Dex: 10
Con: 14
Int: 14
Wis: 21 (16 + 5 level)
Cha: 14
1) Binder - Keeper of Forbidden Lore, Iron Will(h)
2) Binder -
3) Binder - Spell Focus(Evil)
4) Binder - +1 Wis, Improved Binding
5) Binder -
6) Ur-Priest - Practiced Spellcaster(Ur-Priest)
7) Ur-Priest -
8) Tenebrous Apostate - +1 Wis
9) Tenebrous Apostate - Mother Cyst
10) Tenebrous Apostate -
11) Tenebrous Apostate -
12) Tenebrous Apostate - Quicken Spell, +1 Wis
13) Bone Knight -
14) Bone Knight -
15) Bone Knight - DMM: Quicken Spell
16) Bone Knight - +1 Wis
17) Bone Knight -
18) Bone Knight - [feat]
19) Bone Knight -
20) Bone Knight - +1 Wis
9th level divine spells, Divine CL 18, Binder Level 11 = 5th Level Vestiges.
Recommended Equipment: Vestige Phylactery, Bonecraft Armour w/ Perma Umbral Body Mystery, Bonecraft Weapon, Some item of all day flight.
Books Used: PHB, Tome of Magic, Complete Divine, Libris Mortis, Eberron: Five Nations, Fiendish Codex I.
Build Notes:
Your skills are TIGHT till you get into Bone Knight. If fact, all your skills are for prerequisites in the beginning, with the extra being used for Craft(Armor) and later Craft(Weapon) since you need to make these yourself to get the bonuses.
Soon as you hit your first Ur-Priest level, you're burning 4 skill points a level for 6 levels to buy your needed Ride requirements for Bone Knight(cross-class, unfortunately).
So, a skill monkey you will not be. :P
You can easily flip out the Quicken line and the Mother Cyst feat for the DMM: Persist line, if that's how you want to roll.
Your role will dramatically change if you play this guy from first level, but the journey is half the fun.
Idea:
The single question I got PM'ed more than any other question from the original thread was "If Necrosis is the Lord of Shadow, and you said he lost his divinity, what was he like when he had it?" Since my players never got to that point, this is the best interpretation of what I had in mind.
At max level, you're basically a full casting Wraith without all that evil, evil LA AND you still have your con score. This build is a complete mindscrew versus PC's, as you appear in all ways to be undead. Binding Tenebrous and Acererek further muddy the situation, as both vestiges, plus your Bone Knight abilities give you almost all of a true undeads immunities(the rest are easily obtained by items) with none of the drawbacks; you can't be turned, positive AND negative energy heal you, you don't detect as undead, etc.....)
Additionally, if some smart guy drops an Anti-Magic Field, you don't blink out of existance like a real Wraith: you become corporeal and can at least have a say in whether these jerks loot your throne room. :D
Rules:
I don't expect any rule arguements to come up here, but if they do, I'll update here with the answers. :D
ECL 20:
Knock off the Shadow Creature Template and grab a Perma Collar of Umbral Metamorphosis.
Necrosis v2: Eldritch Disciple
Build:
Lawful Evil Evolved Undead(x2), Spellstiched Necropolitan (Augmented Human)
32 pt. buy.
Domains: Planning(CM - Divine Magician ACF took your other one)
Str: 20 (16 + 4(Evolved))
Dex: 10
Con: -
Int: 12
Wis: 21 (16 + 5 level)
Cha: 18 (14 + 4 evolved)
1) Cleric - Extend Spell(b), Persistent Spell(h), DMM(Persistent Spell)
2) Cleric -
3) Cleric - Power Attack
4) Cleric - +1 Wis
5) Warlock -
6) Eldritch Disciple - Battle Caster
7) Eldritch Disciple -
8) Eldritch Disciple - +1 Wis
9) Eldritch Disciple - Quicken Spell
10) Eldritch Disciple -
11) Eldritch Disciple -
12) Eldritch Disciple - DMM: Quicken Spell, +1 Wis
13) Eldritch Disciple -
14) Eldritch Disciple -
15) Eldritch Disciple - Skill Focus(Knowledge [religion])
16) Contemplative - +1 Wis, [Any Domain]
17) Divine Oracle - [Oracle Domain]
18) Divine Oracle - Mother Cyst
19) Divine Oracle -
20) Hierophant(Go read the Build Notes for this one) - +1 Wis
9th level divine spells(Casts as Cleric 18), Divine CL 20, 6d6 Eldritch Blast + greater invocations. Eldritch Glaive(Dragon Magic) is a must pick. :D
Recommended Equipment: Full Plate
Books Used: PHB, DMG, Complete Arcane, Libris Mortis, Complete Divine, Complete Mage, Dragon Magic, Tome of Magic(Again, Build Notes)
Build Notes:
You use your Oracle skills to scry your target(s), you wade into battle, and tear everything apart. Your Eldritch Glaive is your main weapon. 32d6 on a Divine Power fueled full attack, plus more, as the glaive is a touch attack; Power Attack your heart out. Though, wear masterwork gauntlets so you can throw a few punches in an AMF.
Then, you take your 20th level, and it's all about style. You use your Divine Magician ACF to snag a fun little ignored spell in Tome of Magic called 'Unname', 9th Level Necro spell. This spell normally has a very annoying component, being a true name spell; You must speak the true name of the target. You then tell the universe that your target doesn't actually exist, and on a failed save, it blinks out of existance.
Now, true names are normally difficult and expensive to find out. They require gold and time for library research and that's where the Hierophant comes in.
One of the Hierophant's features, is that you can turn a spell you know into a spell-like ability and use it twice a day. This is important, because the hierophant does not use any components when using the SLA! The true name is actually a component part of the spell, thus, you don't need to know the true name, or make a truespeak check to use it ahead of time: use it on anyone!
It still needs to overcome SR and their Fort save though, and the easiest way around that is with a DMM: Quickened Greater Bestow Curse. It's a touch spell, but since you're going to be in melee anyways, just reach out and touch them.
If you want more range, you can shuffle feats for Reach spell to turn GBC into a 30 ray.
Idea:
Ok, this version of Necrosis is basically what I was trying to create with the earlier True Necromancer version: A dual-casting Warlock/Divine Gish. The Divine Oracle toolbox adds some tasty to a melee type, and the Hierophant level is just sex on rollerskates. The second I saw the Unname spell, I knew Necrosis had to have it. What better way to show your untapped divinity then to utterly erase someone from existance? Mwahaha!
Rules:
The only real rule question in this build is covered in the Build Notes.
ECL 20:
Same as before. Knock off the Evolved Undead templates, and you're good to go.
Necrosis - Revised Original:
Full Casting True Necromancer
Build:
Lawful Evil Evolved Undead(x2), Spellstiched Necropolitan (Augmented Human)
32 pt. buy.
Domains: Death and Planning(god of life insurance?)
Str: 12 (8 + 4(Evolved))
Dex: 14
Con: -
Int: 12
Wis: 23 (18 + 5 level)
Cha: 18 (14 + 4 evolved)
1) Warlock - Spell Focus: Necromancy, Corpse Crafter(h)
2) Cleric - Extend Spell(b)
3) Cleric - Persistent Spell
4) Cleric - +1 Wis
5) Cleric -
6) True Necromancer - Divine Metamagic(Persistent Spell)
7) True Necromancer -
8) True Necromancer - +1 Wis
9) True Necromancer - Nimble Bones
10) True Necromancer -
11) True Necromancer -
12) True Necromancer - Destruction Retribution, +1 Wis
13) True Necromancer -
14) True Necromancer -
15) True Necromancer - Practiced Spellcaster: Cleric
16) True Necromancer - +1 Wis
17) True Necromancer -
18) True Necromancer - Mother Cyst/Fell Animate
19) True Necromancer -
20) Cleric - +1 Wis
9th level divine spells(Casts as Cleric 17), Divine CL 20, 6d6 Eldritch Blast + greater invocations. Eldritch Glaive would be a great pick. :D
Recommended Equipment: Wand of Command Undead(few charges), Night sticks(LM), Rod of Undead Mastery(LM)
Books Used: PHB, Complete Arcane, Libris Mortis, Complete Divine
Build Notes:
Get a wand of command undead before your first TN level. This item, until you spellstitch yourself, is the only thing that qualifies you for TN, DON'T LOSE IT! When you spellstitch yourself, make sure one choice is Command Undead, so you become self-fulfilling, then you can toss the wand.
As for what other SLA's should you give him, that's more of a personal choice, however, I will offer some general advice:
The best use of the SLA's will be for undead-raising related spells with expensive materials needed. Since SLA's require no materials, you can save yourself a lot of money.
Some of you might also be wondering about the Mother Cyst feat. If your unfamiliar with it, I suggest cracking your LM and taking a look at a little 8th level spell called 'Necrotic Empowerment'. Yes, that one spell is so freaking good that it's worth the feat. Huge bonuses to Dex, Int, Wis, Natural Armour, Fort saves and 100 extra hps!(Come on, what undead is not going to love those?)
Oh, what's this? AND you can use Divine Metamagic(Persistent Spell) to make it last all day long? Sign me up!
Why no Ur-Priest? Mainly because what happens to a Cleric and his domains when he becomes an Ur-Priest is a little bit of a grey area, and I wanted to avoid that, as the TN requires access to the Death Domain. If your DM says you can keep your domain benefits, however, feel free to add it. :)
Idea:
The idea actually occurred to me early in my 3.5 days, when I only had the PHB, Libris Mortis and CA to draw upon. I had tried playing a normal Necromancer, and tried the Wizard/Cleric/TN, but found that no matter how conservative I was with my spells, I was always running out before the encounters did, plus, the caster levels lost from TN were far too stiff for my liking, and instead of being a decent wizard, or a decent cleric, I was crappy at both.
However, my love for TN was strong, and I decided that to excel at one casting type, I'd probably have to suck at the other. The only way I could do this was to find an arcane or divine caster who didn't give a crap about his CL.
Ahhhhhhh, the warlock. Arcane caster, doesn't give a damn about CL, AND I could blast all day without worrying about having to rely on my x-bow.
But, the warlock couldn't qualify for the arcane part of TN's requirements, I saw the paragraph on SLA's in CA, and figured it would be easier to add SLA's the warlock then to get a warlock to cast arcane spells. Spellstitched was the answer, and the Necropolitan template let me use that. :)
Necrosis = Completely reversed engineered. :)
Rules:
"Your using SLA's/Items to qualify for TN? You can't do that! It says you have to be able to cast the spell!"
Now, whether using SLA/Item to qualify for PrC's is by RAW, I direct your attention to Complete Arcane, pg. 72, top right hand corner, under the Specific Spell Requirements heading, reproduced here for clarity:
"A requirement based on a specific spell measures whether the character or creature in question is capable of producing the necessary effect, and as such, invocations and spell-like abilities that generate the relevant effect meet the requirements for specific spell knowledge. For example, a prestige class with a spellcasting requirement of "Must know (or be able to cast) darkness" is met by a warlock who chooses darkness as one of her invocations, or by any creature with darkness as a spell-like ability."
Bolded part added by me for emphasis.
You'd have a wand that was capable of producing the effect, or you'd have SLA's to produce the effect. You'd be fine. :D
"Wow, so you can use SLA's/Items to get into TN. Neat! But wait, my copy of CA Spellstitched template says they gain the ability to cast spells, but the template talks about SLA's. Huh?"
To clear up the muddle of a Spellstitched creature, Spellstitched doesn't give the ability to cast spells, that's an typing error. The template grants SLA abilities.
ECL 20:
Actually, to make him ECL 20, all you have to do is knock off the 2 Evolved Undead templates, and if your DM plays with the LA buyoff rule, you don't even have to do that much. :)
Aeryr
2012-04-28, 07:23 AM
You sir, can have a cookie that was a great concept, and a great reading.
If I may...
how do you get your bone armor with perma umbral body mistery? Can you cast permanency on the mistery or something?
Then... Tenebrous Apostate specifically asks you to revere tenebrous as a god while ur priest fluff clearly would be against that. Any consideration on that?
Additionally you didn't seem to account that binder 4 grants a bonus binder feat. That can be used to get favored vestige (tenebrous) and later on rapid recovery. I will suggest easy metamagic (quicken spell) so you need to burn less turn or rebuke attempts each time. That way you get one turn or rebuke attempt (from tenebrous) once every four rounds and you need only to burn 3 more turn or rebuke attempts to use quicken spell.
You have 2 levels in ur-priest, 5 levels in tenebrous apostate, and 8 levels in bone knight so you can take out a level somewhere and still cast as a 10th level ur-priest, maybe swap a level of tenebrous apostate for a level in knight of the sacred seal (it will require a flaw, or changing a feat for weapon focus, or an otyugh hole or something) that grants ride as class skill.
Keep the great job! :smallsmile:
Xaktsaroth
2012-04-28, 12:52 PM
You sir, can have a cookie that was a great concept, and a great reading.
If I may...
how do you get your bone armor with perma umbral body mistery? Can you cast permanency on the mistery or something?
Then... Tenebrous Apostate specifically asks you to revere tenebrous as a god while ur priest fluff clearly would be against that. Any consideration on that?
Additionally you didn't seem to account that binder 4 grants a bonus binder feat. That can be used to get favored vestige (tenebrous) and later on rapid recovery. I will suggest easy metamagic (quicken spell) so you need to burn less turn or rebuke attempts each time. That way you get one turn or rebuke attempt (from tenebrous) once every four rounds and you need only to burn 3 more turn or rebuke attempts to use quicken spell.
You have 2 levels in ur-priest, 5 levels in tenebrous apostate, and 8 levels in bone knight so you can take out a level somewhere and still cast as a 10th level ur-priest, maybe swap a level of tenebrous apostate for a level in knight of the sacred seal (it will require a flaw, or changing a feat for weapon focus, or an otyugh hole or something) that grants ride as class skill.
Keep the great job! :smallsmile:
1) To my understanding on reading the section on shadow magic, yes, you can get an item of a continous mystery, however, if that's not to your liking, the spell Ghostform from the SC would be a good substitute.
2) Ur-Priest's Adaption section says your divine powers, rather then being stolen from the gods, could be drawn from a dead god, to which Tenebrous would absolutely apply. Thematically, in my old campaign, Necrosis drew his power from his own shattered divinity, so it seemed a good fit.
3) If you planned on using Tenebrous abilities frequently, yes, that would absolutely be a good idea, but whether Tenebrous would give you a NEW pool of turning/rebuke attempts was a grey area I decided to avoid, though, your Easy Metamagic idea is not a bad one at all. :D
4) The best level to switch out if you were going that route would be Tenebrous 5, as Bone Knight 8 is your Ex undead abilities, however, you could flip out Ur-Priest 2, since binding Tenebrous grabs you the turn/rebuke undead you need to enter.
Hope that answers your question.
Also, since I'm posting anyways, I'm sorry for the delay in Andariel, I've gone back and forth on her 2nd build about 8 or 9 times, but I got it figured out now, so she should be up soon. :D
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