Half-Vampire Warlock Optimization

[betelgeuce]

So I know this isn't posted on here yet, here goes. I'm in a party where we have some real douche optimizers. I swear its bad. I try to play optimized but I don't play a kobolt wizard that has 4 templates that let's him cast as a sorcerer at level 10 while only having 6 hd. I play a half vampire warlock for odd reasons. My question is this: I hate one sided fights meaning one character dominates the fight, so I though why not template out my character with vampire Lord but I noticed it says you must have had "the vampire template" first. Can the "half-vampire template" count as "the vampire template"? Or does it mean the la +6 vampire? Would someone rule they can be interchanged? If it doesn't work could I get a template idea for my warlock so that I can stop fights from being one sided? I like cheese so anything works. I thought this was nice but I want to make sure its legitimate before I do it.

Thanks.

[Aegis013]

Sounds like a question better asked to your DM than the playground. I recommend asking your DM if you can use the Half-Vampire template to get the Vampire Lord template.

[betelgeuce]

He said that he doesn't know and that he's got no one to ask without releasing my race or template. Also if its even possible or up to him, if he has to ask the min max players at the table they will manage to convince him to say no because they'll want no one to abuse loopholes other than them. That's why I asked the playground. You guys know or have experienced everything.

[Madara]

An alternate for the same flavor with lower LA is a Necropolitan Half-vampire. Only problem is the blood drain is based on Con, ask if you can change it to be based on Cha.

As for your original question: Not by RAW.

[betelgeuce]

With the half-vampire I choose to take the gaze ability for flavor. So basically you're saying half-vampire will not work for vampire Lord?

[ShneekeyTheLost]

You are a Warlock in a party with a Wizard. Getting upstaged is pretty much going to be par for course.

Your best bet is to specialize in a certain aspect of being a Warlock, so you at least have a shtick.

Common options are:

Warlock/Binder/Hellfire Warlock/Legacy Champion

Some 30+d6 damage per blast, toss in Eldritch Glaive/Claws for applying it multiple times. If your GM lets Strongheart Vest work on Hellfire Blast, it saves you a dip in Binder. Pick up a couple of good blast essences, like Hindering, Beshadowed, or Nauseating. Then pick up Vitriolic to bypass SR, when it becomes a problem.

This option is only available if the half-vampire template doesn't remove your Con score.

Warlock/Mindbender/Chameleon/Warlock

This build is a bit more of a 'generalist', but can be exceedingly useful at mid to high level play. Basically, Mindbender is for the awesome Mindsight feat (you need the Telepathy for it) which is basically your early detection radar. Chameleon2 is for the floating feat. When combined with the Warlock12 class ability, it basically lets you be the MagicMart for the whole party. However, when you aren't crafting, it can be a floating invocation, thanks to the Extra Invocation feat. It gives you some flexibility, which is never a bad thing.

This build requires that you start off Human, or human-blooded (Changeling or Strongheart Halfling also count).

[betelgeuce]

Silly me I should have posted, I am currently going ur-priest, chameleon. I won't get so upstaged then but I guess the underlying question is does anyone know a template I can use that might cause me to actually live through these encounters?

[betelgeuce]

Also maybe this was a way I could ask the playground how to out play a dragonwrought kobold wizard with white dragon something template. I mean I've played for a long time but I'm good at rp not combat. I like to rp my butt off not do 100 damage a round at level 6.....

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Silly me I should have posted, I am currently going ur-priest, chameleon. I won't get so upstaged then but I guess the underlying question is does anyone know a template I can use that might cause me to actually live through these encounters?

If you are going Ur-Priest, then go Eldritch Theurge. You have all the advantages of Warlock and Cleric combined.

At that point, levels are more valuable than templates.

Sample build:

Paladin (alignment variant to suit your tastes)2/Warlock3/UrPriest2/Eldritch Disciple x

For example, if you are going CE, then go Paladin of Slaughter2/Warlock3/UrPriest2/Eldritch Disciple to end

At character level 10, for example, you have an Invocation casting of 7th level and UrPriest casting at 4th. So you have access to 4th level Cleric spells, plus some invocations. It might not be as powerful as a spellhoarding loredrake kobold, but it's one heck of a lot more powerful than a bog-standard warlock, and will at least keep you in spitting distance.

Furthermore, the higher level you get, the more powerful you become. At character level 15, you've got 9th level Cleric spells.

[betelgeuce]

I read and researched a body outside body miracle build. I liked it. Warlock casts body outside body through miracle via urpriest and deals negative levels many times through ranged touch attacks multiple times. We get level buy offs so the levels won't go away just lag behind. I would be willing to play something else. I've just never had to break the game that much if you know what I mean. Also I picked LE for flavor. very odd warlock he is.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

I read and researched a body outside body miracle build. I liked it. Warlock casts body outside body through miracle via urpriest and deals negative levels many times through ranged touch attacks multiple times. We get level buy offs so the levels won't go away just lag behind. I would be willing to play something else. I've just never had to break the game that much if you know what I mean. Also I picked LE for flavor. very odd warlock he is.

Paladin of Tyranny is the LE variant.

Dark template might increase survivability through HiPS. Dipping a Rogue level then grabbing Able Learner feat might make it more valuable to you.

Alternately, Pixie is a great Warlock template, even though it is +4 LA, due to (ex)flight and superior invisibility SLA.

[KillianHawkeye]

Alternately, Pixie is a great Warlock template, even though it is +4 LA, due to (ex)flight and superior invisibility SLA.

Note: Pixie is a race, not a template. It cannot be applied to a character of another race.

[betelgeuce]

I mean I can change to a pixie race. That's not a big deal. I basically get to remake the character due to a spreadsheet error and it not adding racial levels and totally skewing my character. RHD are BAD for me,while a LA is not. I can put up with a LA of about +3 but much more than that is going to have to be something exceptional. I'm going to look into the paladin build. Since I'm firing a ray the size won't matter and the AC might be nice.

[betelgeuce]

So I'm reading that Pixie's have to change out 1 HD for a fey level which would slow me down alot on my total casting. Is that worth it?

[ShneekeyTheLost]

So I'm reading that Pixie's have to change out 1 HD for a fey level which would slow me down alot on my total casting. Is that worth it?

No, they don't. Pixies (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/sprite.htm#pixie) have this cute little caveat:


A pixie character exchanges its 1 HD of fey for its first class level.

Level adjustment +4 hurts, but it might be worth it if you can buy it off.

The other option is the Ur-Lock. Which is just plain nasty when done right.

[betelgeuce]

Whoops that's me reading that wrong...again.../fail. So explain this Ur-Lock done right to me. I'm kind of new to heavy multiclassing and Gestalt builds.

[betelgeuce]

Level adjustment +4 hurts, but it might be worth it if you can buy it off.

The other option is the Ur-Lock. Which is just plain nasty when done right.

Yep I can totally buy it off and this character is starting at level 6 technically so I have, I suppose that many HD to play with.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Whoops that's me reading that wrong...again.../fail. So explain this Ur-Lock done right to me. I'm kind of new to heavy multiclassing and Gestalt builds.

The ur-lock is the one I pointed out earlier... Paladin of Tyranny 2/Warlock3/UrPriest 1

That's level 6. Not too impressive yet, I'll admit, although you still get your Charisma to all your saves, meaning you're a lot harder to hit with Save or Lose spells.

At level 10, it looks like this:

Paladin of Tyranny2/Warlock3/UrPriest2/Eldritch Disciple3

You've got 4th level cleric spells (so down one spell level at this point), three Least invocations, and a couple of nifty abilities from the PrC.

By level 15, the build is Pal2/'lock3/UrPriest2/ED8

You've got 9th level spells (two levels before most straight casters get them, mind you), three Least invocations, three Lesser invocations, and a Greater invocation, 3x Gift of the Divine Patron, and Eldritch Spellweave.

Eldritch Spellweave is mostly weak tea, although if you pick up something like Beshadowed Blast, you can tack on Save or Blind onto any targeted spell you cast.

The big thing is, of course, getting 9th level spells before anyone else does. Everything else is icing on the cake. ;)

[betelgeuce]

And obviously I can add cheese with Divine Metamagic Persist right? ...>_<