Are There Any Benefits to Reading A Book?

[Palanan]

In the first 3.5 campaign I played in, our DM gave us a +1 bonus on Knowledge checks if our characters had read a book on a related topic. I liked the idea enough to include it in my own campaigns, but I was never sure if this was a house rule or an obscure official rule.

In that first campaign, we started out playing The Sunless Citadel, which I've just been looking at again. (Ahh, memories.) Among the treasure for the PCs is a book of dragon-lore, which gives a +1 bonus on Knowledge checks involving dragons, and another book in Druidic, which gives a +1 on all Knowledge (nature) checks.

So, this must be where our DM got the idea for the books. My question is, does this rule appear anywhere else? Are there guidelines for the benefits of nonmagical books somewhere out there, either in 3.0 or 3.5?

[Dusk Eclipse]

While not specific it is commonly acepted that a book on certain subject works as a Masterwork item for knowledge skills, other than that I can't recall a non-magical book/scroll/etc giving a mechanical benefit.

[Rubik]

As Dusk Eclipse intimated, a book would be a masterwork tool. MW tools grant a +2 bonus to a given skill. I'd say that if you go over the book with relative frequency you shouldn't have to actively peruse it whenever a situation comes up that requires browsing, since you can likely recall bits and pieces of info regarding whatever it is that's in front of you, assuming you make the roll (as failing the roll either means there was nothing in the book available to help out, or you don't remember seeing anything in there about it).

[Slipperychicken]

Reading is usually delegated to backstory, since it consumes time usually spent on adventuring. I'd say one would need to pay the standard 50gp for the masterwork items, but wouldn't need to carry it around, and would only need to blow time (a week or so of 4-8 hour intervals, handled like crafting) reading it if they hadn't already read it before the campaign started.

EDIT: Probably better to set a total time to read it (roll something like 10d6 hours, maybe more if it's a real tome), then divide it as the PC wishes.

[elonin]

Books in RPG's are bad. Just remember what Tom Riddles book tried to do to harry. I think there is a trope about books taking people over or drawing them within their pages.

[Gavinfoxx]

There are specific rules about libraries of certain quality offering various bonuses on checks.

[Gnome Alone]

Best thread title ever.

[Anxe]

A similar +1 to knowledge skills is used in Kenzer&Co's adventure, Tomb of Kruk-Ma-Kali. I'd say it is a general convention, but not an actual rule.

[Slipperychicken]

Best thread title ever.

It's kind of funny and sad, because too many people don't see any benefit to reading books IRL. And because the rules of the game are spread across dozens of books, magazines, and web add-ons, so you can't play the game very well without benefiting from reading a book.

[Flickerdart]

Reading a book has many uses. You can, for instance, avoid the eyes of that lech that's been eyeing you all evening from across the tavern room, or utterly confound the party barbarian, or make a time-tested theatrical gesture by slamming it shut, or...

[GoatBoy]

You get bonuses on checks related to research (Knowledge skills, personal Truenames, etc) but the numbers vary so widely that I believe they leave it up to the DM to decide exactly what bonuses they provide. It's purely subjective and at your discretion.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Slipperychicken
It's kind of funny and sad, because too many people don't see any benefit to reading books IRL.

I confess, that occurred to me when I typed in the thread title. I'm ensconced in a small room packed with books, and I was fortunate to grow up in a family where reading is valued. Unfortunately, literary awareness is no longer an asset these days; where I live, it's more the reverse. And more often than not, the internet just makes English majors weep.


As for books that characters read, I think I'm a little unusual for a DM, in that I tend to allow a fair amount of downtime. I also just have fun coming up with titles.

So, if there's a convention that books give a +1 bonus, that's well and good. The next obvious question is, what about different books on the same topic? Do they each give a +1 bonus? Can you have synergy bonuses? At what point does the +1 from a single book, or several books, give way to the general bonuses from libraries that was mentioned before?

(And where would those rules on libraries be found?)

[Hirax]

This is pretty much why the generic masterwork tool entry exists, and why circumstance bonuses stack.

[ericgrau]

It's not that a book gives a bonus, it's more that you can't possibly gain ranks in a knowledge skill without a book, teacher or other source of information. While we may often hand wave the way skill ranks are gained they in fact must be gained some way even though the rules leave the specific method up to the DM.

I'd say a book giving a bonus to an entire knowledge category is a bit hokey: even a demigod making a check with a +60 modifier to remember long forgotten lore gets the same bonus from a little manual? Instead I'd allow books on a specific topic to give a +2 (or more) to knowledge checks on that topic if you take a minute to leaf through the book. Or it might have certain specific information which you can get without rolling.

[Cicciograna]

I seem to recall that in Stronghold Builder's Guidebook (3rd Edition material) there are rules for "book lots" that give increasing bonuses on Knowledge checks, depending on the comprehensiveness of the lot.
If I remember correctly, a normal lot gives a +2 on a check regarding a single topic (ie. Nature); a fancy book lot gives a +4; and a comprehensive book lot gives a +6 (although such a lot is very, very bulky, requiring basically two rooms to be hosted).
Normal books come also in "general purpose" topics, giving a +1 to all Knowledge skill checks.

[Earthwalker]

Oddly in Pathfinder you can buy copies of the Pathfinder Cronicler.
Each is for a different knowledge skill. 50 gp each.
If you spend D4 rounds looking looking through the book you can gain a +2 bonus on the particular knowledge skill.

So yes there is some use to using a book.
I would also allow you to re-roll a failed check by looking it up in a book.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by ericgrau
It's not that a book gives a bonus, it's more that you can't possibly gain ranks in a knowledge skill without a book, teacher or other source of information.

Knowledge (nature) is the obvious exception, because you can learn directly from nature by careful observation. For that matter, the same could apply to Knowledge (local), simply from crisscrossing your region and keeping your eyes and ears open.


Originally Posted by ericgrau
I'd say a book giving a bonus to an entire knowledge category is a bit hokey....

Depends on your perspective, I guess. I could easily see a book on the peerage giving a +1 or +2 on Knowledge (nobility), as well as on Diplomacy when you're interacting with that set.


Originally Posted by Cicciograna
I seem to recall that in Stronghold Builder's Guidebook (3rd Edition material) there are rules for "book lots" that give increasing bonuses on Knowledge checks, depending on the comprehensiveness of the lot.

Ahh, that's where they are; thank you. The bonuses for the book lots are just as you say, and they do take up quite a bit of space. These are for large sets of books rather than individual volumes, but this would work well for any library the characters have access to.

Apart from the examples mentioned so far, are there any other instances of books giving benefits, from other rulebooks or modules?

[Cieyrin]

Apart from the examples mentioned so far, are there any other instances of books giving benefits, from other rulebooks or modules?

I recall in the 3rd party system Arcana Unearthed/Expanded that books and libraries give Knowledge bonuses depending on the quality of the book(s), etc.

[animewatcha]

There are specific rules about libraries of certain quality offering various bonuses on checks.

Where exactly if in a official source? Such things would be useful for say a duskblade.

[ericgrau]

Knowledge (nature) is the obvious exception, because you can learn directly from nature by careful observation. For that matter, the same could apply to Knowledge (local), simply from crisscrossing your region and keeping your eyes and ears open.

Ya any source of information works. But that's one heck of a long hike for things like local and geography. Seems easier to get the info from someone else who already did the hard work and then wrote it down.



Depends on your perspective, I guess. I could easily see a book on the peerage giving a +1 or +2 on Knowledge (nobility), as well as on Diplomacy when you're interacting with that set.
Such a book would only cover a specific region and/or topic though. For that, sure give a bonus or maybe even an auto-pass, but outside of that area you're out of luck.

[navar100]

Books in RPG's are bad. Just remember what Tom Riddles book tried to do to harry. I think there is a trope about books taking people over or drawing them within their pages.

The Oompa Loompas disagree. They'll remind you'll get no commercials.

[stack]

Stronghold builder's guide has rules for libraries in your stronghold giving bonuses for knowledge checks, varying by the cost of the book set and the breadth of the topics covered..

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by ericgrau
...But that's one heck of a long hike for things like local and geography. Seems easier to get the info from someone else who already did the hard work and then wrote it down.

Some people enjoy long hikes. ... ; )

Also, for those cases in particular, often enough the information you want just won't be in a book. Keeping up with current events in your region isn't the sort of thing you can consult a book for; almost by definition, it would require some legwork. Likewise with a lot of questions on natural history and the wilderness. In those situations, you may find that you're the one doing the hard work and writing the book.

:smalltongue:
.

[The Glyphstone]

I had a Cloistered Cleric once who was a total bookworm scholar, and a complete set of encyclopedias for every knowledge check that he carried around. They were extremely well-made, to the point of functioning as light maces in combat.

[Palanan]

A cleric thwacking people with heavy books. Priceless. Clearly he believed in a firm application of the Word.

:smalltongue:


Originally Posted by Cieyrin
I recall in the 3rd party system Arcana Unearthed/Expanded that books and libraries give Knowledge bonuses depending on the quality of the book(s), etc.

Thanks for the tip, looks like they do indeed. Arcana Unearthed has a sidebar on p. 85 listing the bonuses for individual books (+1 to +5), as well as offering a larger bonus for a library, anywhere from +5 to +10 or higher. (!) Very nice.

[The Glyphstone]

Yup. He had Knowledge Devotion and decent physical stats, so he wasn't a bad melee combatant even with poor BAB. I can't remember what it was exactly, but I do fondly remember one fight where he beat a monster to death all the while insisting it was not in its natural habitat and outside its usual activity cycle - oh, and that humanoids were not its preferred prey.