Going rogue

[Gwendol]

Planning for a new character, and would like to go rogue.

No ToB, and Factotum has been discouraged.

My current plan is to stack rogue and swashbuckler levels (through Daring outlaw feat), and apply the Dark template (LA +1, buy-back allowed) from ToM.

Currently planned as Rogue 1/SB 3/Rogue 2/SB X

Feats: TWF (+ TWF feat tree) using shortswords, Craven, Able learner, Weapon finesse (SB bonus), Daring outlaw

ACF:s Penetrating strike (Dungeonscape), Shield of Blades (PHB II)

Is there a caster class that could be added for more fun, or is it better to max out UMD and stick with wands?

Is mage slayer and pierce magical concealement worth it?

Considering the proposed build above, what other feats, ACF's etc to consider (plan for ten levels only, begin at ECL 4)?

[docnessuno]

Assassin is a decent way to gain easy access to some nice spells and the amazing wraithstrike.

Of course you could use them with UMD, but activating either a scroll or a wand is a standard action, so you would lose most of the benefits.

For the same reasons Wizard 1 or 2 is a good entry for both abjurant champion and daggerspell mage, and can be further progressed with Arcane trickster.

Swashbuckler 3 / Rogue 3 / Wizard 2 / Daggerspell mage 3 / Abjurant champion 5 / Arcane trickster 4 Would end up with 5d6 SA (without the daring outlaw feat), +15 BAB and access to 7th lvl spells (And a 5-7 lvl arcane strike makes up for the lost SA and attack bonus)

[Darrin]

Is there a caster class that could be added for more fun, or is it better to max out UMD and stick with wands?


It's hard to fit in a caster without nerfing your BAB and sneak attack. I could maybe see Duskblade 1/Unseen Seer 4 for giggles... and it keeps your sneak attack mostly intact, but you need another 1st level divination spell for that. Finishing off with Dragon Devotee 4/Unseen Seer 4 could also work... -2 BAB, +4d6 Sneak Attack.



Feats: TWF (+ TWF feat tree) using shortswords, Craven, Able learner, Weapon finesse (SB bonus), Daring outlaw

Is mage slayer and pierce magical concealement worth it?


Not much room for Mage Slayer/PMC, if you want to focus on TWF/Sneak Attack. Dipping Dragon Totem Barbarian can get you Blind-Fight and Whirling Frenzy (sadly, not pounce), but feat-wise I'd focus on:

Travel Devotion (Complete Champion)
Staggering Strike (Complete Adventurer)
Maiming Strike (Exemplars of Evil, evil-only)
Undo Resistance (Fiendish Codex II)

[Gwendol]

Only non-evil alignement, and assassin is out.

Edit: Would Avenger work for assassin replacement?

I am contemplating going for unseen seer instead, but need some intel on party composition before deciding.

Staggering strike seems like an excellent fit, what with the penetrating strike acf. That will sadly have to wait until level 9 though, what with daring outlaw at level 6.

[Golden Ladybug]

The Avenger PrC (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/prc/20070401a) is Assassin but for Good Guys. Sadly, it loses out on most of the Assassin's Splatbook support, so its not that great in comparison :smallfrown:

Daggerspell Mage is an okay Rogue/Arcane Gish, especially since you're already going for TWF. I suggest buying some Gloves of the Balanced Hand from the Magic Items Compendium, as it gives you the Improved Two Weapon Fighting feat for gold, rather than a feat slot. It can also give you a second iterative earlier than you should normally have one, although using it for your TWFing needs would prevent you from taking GTWF later. That's okay though :smallwink:

If you can be tempted away from the Daring Outlaw plan, taking an ACF that trades Trapfinding (Changeling Rogue is my favourite for this), then dipping Beguiler to get it back and qualify you for Unseen Seer works well. A Rogue 4/Beguiler 1/Unseen Seer 10/Arcane Trickster 5 build, grants +12 BAB, 16th Level Beguiler Casting and 8d6 Sneak Attack. Considering a straight Rogue gets only +15 BAB, no Casting and 10d6 Sneak Attack, I think that this comes out on top.

It is a bit more Caster than Rogue though...

[Gwendol]

Thanks! That would be the other track to take compared with daring outlaw. I'll be contemplating both paths.

As far as equipment I would consider gloves of the balanced hand, ring of silent spellcasting, the bracers that allow still spell casting (also MiC), ring of the darkhidden, anklets of translocation, boots of the acrobat. Any other items of interest?

[docnessuno]

Remember that casting spells with somatic components while dual-wielding requires either:
Still spell
Daggerspell mage 1
A way to sheate a weapon and draw it again as free actions

[Gwendol]

That's what bracers of arcane freedom are for.

[Particle_Man]

Only non-evil alignement, and assassin is out.

Slayer of Domiel from Book of Exalted Deeds?

[Gwendol]

Could be worth a shot; the (equivalent of) death attack is useless of course, but the rest is nice. Thanks!