Swiftblade haste-head

[Greyfeld85]

I've been wanting to piece together a Swiftblade character for a while... I thought it would be fun to play a character who was basically addicted to his Haste spells, like a crack addict. Fidgety and feening when not under the effects of Haste, but completely relaxed and competent while the spell is up and running.

So, I was wondering if my fellow playgrounders can give me some interesting builds that can play off this character concept?

[Thrice Dead Cat]

Elf Wizard 6/Swiftblade 9-10/Abjurant Champion 4-5.

Grab the Martial Wizard variant from UA to meet your feat requirements.

[Averis Vol]

yea the above is the general gish build, though i prefer to substitute wizard with Stalwart battle sorcerer. you could add in eldritch knight if your willing to risk a level of something with martial weapon proficiency, or you use lesser aasimar/tiefling as your race, so it would be something like Lesser aasimar Stalwart Battle Sorcerer 6/Swiftblade 9/Eldritch Knight 5. so you retain 18 BaB and a 17 Caster Level. and lets be honest it seems much more likely that a sorcerer would end up a drug addict then a wizard.

Edit: as for a class that reflects the drug addict fluff......your on your own there.

[Snowbluff]

yea the above is the general gish build, though i prefer to substitute wizard with Stalwart battle sorcerer. you could add in eldritch knight if your willing to risk a level of something with martial weapon proficiency, or you use lesser aasimar/tiefling as your race, so it would be something like Lesser aasimar Stalwart Battle Sorcerer 6/Swiftblade 9/Eldritch Knight 5. so you retain 18 BaB and a 17 Caster Level. and lets be honest it seems much more likely that a sorcerer would end up a drug addict then a wizard.

Edit: as for a class that reflects the drug addict fluff......your on your own there.

With the number of CL lost with SB is too high for Sorc. Wiz6/SB9 is the way to go. That leaves room for Ab Champ, and doesn't cost you access to 9ths.

[Urpriest]

While it loses you BAB, a few levels in Fatespinner might be interesting. It's not a particularly bad class, and you can fluff it as gambling skills you learned satisfying your habit.

[Greyfeld85]

With the number of CL lost with SB is too high for Sorc. Wiz6/SB9 is the way to go. That leaves room for Ab Champ, and doesn't cost you access to 9ths.

Dropping, for a moment, this assumption that I actually care about getting 9th level spells...

I'd like a build that capitalizes on the Swiftblade's enhanced martial ability. If I just wanted to build a spellcaster, I'd go Wizard15/Archmage5 or some Incantatrix build and be done with it. I don't care about the character losing its tier 1 status, I'm more concerned with building an interesting character.

That's why I asked for "interesting" swiftblade builds, not the "best" swiftblade builds.

[Thrice Dead Cat]

Dropping, for a moment, this assumption that I actually care about getting 9th level spells...

I'd like a build that capitalizes on the Swiftblade's enhanced martial ability. If I just wanted to build a spellcaster, I'd go Wizard15/Archmage5 or some Incantatrix build and be done with it. I don't care about the character losing its tier 1 status, I'm more concerned with building an interesting character.

That's why I asked for "interesting" swiftblade builds, not the "best" swiftblade builds.

The issue is less the 9th level spells themselves but rather the fact that being behind another level on getting new spells hurts a lot. Even if you're only going to be getting up to ~7th level spells by the end of the campaign, at least getting them at all is good.

[Urpriest]

Isn't there a somewhat interesting Trapsmith-based Swiftblade out there?

[Greyfeld85]

While it loses you BAB, a few levels in Fatespinner might be interesting. It's not a particularly bad class, and you can fluff it as gambling skills you learned satisfying your habit.

ooo that's an interesting idea.

I'm curious, is there a way for arcane spellcasters to make up for a lack of BAB, besides Truestrike and Ghoststrike? (I think the name of it is ghost strike... the one that lets you make attacks as touch attacks.) I mean, Clerics can pop Divine Power, but as far as I know, arcane casters don't get anything like that.

[Piggy Knowles]

Factotum 8/Trapsmith 1/Swiftblade 10 is a fun little Swiftblade entry, adding in whatever you'd like for the last level. Just stock up on Pearls of Power to make up for the Trapsmith's low number of spells per day.

[Greyfeld85]

The issue is less the 9th level spells themselves but rather the fact that being behind another level on getting new spells hurts a lot. Even if you're only going to be getting up to ~7th level spells by the end of the campaign, at least getting them at all is good.

That line of thinking is kinda tossed out the window the moment you start building a character that takes fractional progression PrCs like the Swiftblade, IMO.

[Hirax]

If drunken master didn't require monk levels, it would be great for this. If you can ignore the pre reqs, I'd go Humanparagon1/wizard2/human paragon+2/drunken master 5/mindbender1/swiftblade9. A drunken telepathic methhead. Not someone you'd want crashing your party. :smallbiggrin:

[Averis Vol]

was i missing a CL for 9ths? my apologies, the highest level character i've had the pleasure to play was 13 so i get wizard and sorcerer mixed up a tad. i guess you could take an earlier break in swiftblade to save CL and choose some full caster classes. another course of action would be to go bard 6/ swiftblade 6/sublime chord 1/ virtuoso 7. you could be a master (insert instrument here)-ist who only plays while hasted, otherwise he feels his music is to slow and dull, it went from not being able to play to barely being willing to act without his fix.

Note: this is just thrown together, i didn't research it so i have no clue what its effective caster level and bard level is, nor its BaB.

[FMArthur]

Isn't this addict character's natural character arc going to be to about freeing him or herself from the addiction? How can the character's personality actually grow here in a way that doesn't just destroy its abilities? Haste and all the special effects you tack onto it with Swiftblade is purely beneficial and desirable from every sense of game perspective, which feels pretty wrong as an analogy for drug addiction.

Why not have the character be addicted to actual performance-enhancing drugs with properly negative effects, and use Haste magic to wean him or herself off of the stuff? A tempo Bloodspike from Magic of Eberron lets you take damage to grant yourself a move action any time in the next hour - which you can reapply after you use it or it expires. The swiftstride alchemical capsule (which you consume as a Swift action) can grant you a couple rounds of enhanced movespeed at the cost of fatigue afterward. Others that I know of are the thickener bloodspike (weapon damage against you is reduced by 1... and is not DR), strongarm capsule (improves weapon damage and strength checks for a couple rounds) and leap capsule (enhanced Jump checks for a round), which aren't as easily related to Haste.

[Greyfeld85]

Isn't this addict character's natural character arc going to be to about freeing him or herself from the addiction? How can the character's personality actually grow here in a way that doesn't just destroy its abilities? Haste and all the special effects you tack onto it with Swiftblade is purely beneficial and desirable from every sense of game perspective, which feels pretty wrong as an analogy for drug addiction.

For the same reason that it's bad to become addicted to actual drugs like pain killers and anti-depressants. Essentially, you're incapable of functioning without the "drug."

It's only a loose analogy for somebody addicted to the effects of a specific spell. This can be taken to extremes with any ability. What if a character never went anywhere without casting Persist Detect magic? How would the Druid feel in human form when spending most of his natural life as a shapeshifted animal? Would Paladins stripped of their disease immunity suddenly become hypochondriacs?

I just thought that the whole "addicted to Haste" would be an interesting way to approach roleplaying the class.

[Darrin]

Factotum 8/Trapsmith 1/Swiftblade 10 is a fun little Swiftblade entry, adding in whatever you'd like for the last level. Just stock up on Pearls of Power to make up for the Trapsmith's low number of spells per day.

I don't recall the exact particulars of getting into Swiftblade, but how do you fill all your 3rd level spell slots with haste when you only have 1st level spell slots?

[darksolitaire]

I don't recall the exact particulars of getting into Swiftblade, but how do you fill all your 3rd level spell slots with haste when you only have 1st level spell slots?

Makers of Swiftblade clarified that the entry requirement was written a bit poorly, and should allow access with the ability to cast haste, not requiring third level spell slots at all.

Edit: here's the sentence, and the link I read it.

Sonofapreacherman wrote:

Speaking from an intent perspective (which I know counts for very little in the optimized forums) the idea is for the swiftblade candidate to use all spell slots (of the level in which haste is gained) to cast haste. The Dungeonscape book did not exist when Brian and I originally created the swiftblade, leaving us completely unaware of the trapsmith prestige class when it was finally released. If we had been aware, the special prerequisite would have read...

Special: Must have spent the entire previous level using all spell slots of the level in which haste is gained to exclusively cast haste.

-The Swiftblade Handbook. (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=6280.msg207345#msg207345)

[Waddacku]

You can also certainly argue that since you have no 3rd level slots, the prerequisite is automatically fulfilled. You have not used any 3rd level slots to cast anything but haste, have you?

[ILM]

ooo that's an interesting idea.

I'm curious, is there a way for arcane spellcasters to make up for a lack of BAB, besides Truestrike and Ghoststrike? (I think the name of it is ghost strike... the one that lets you make attacks as touch attacks.)
You're thinking of Wraithstrike.

The Skillful ability is a weapon enchantment I don't see mentioned often, and yet I find it awesome. It's a +2 enchantment that can be wielded without penalties even if you don't have the right proficiency (note that it doesn't give you proficiency to qualify for feats and stuff), and sets your BAB at 3/4 when you attack with that weapon.

For a lot of primary melee or rogue-y types, that's not going to mean much, but for caster with 5 different classes whose BAB is like 8 or 9 at level 20, it's a big difference.


edit: actually, you could go SotAO Ranger into Trapsmith (with the Trap Expert variant in DS) and from there into Swiftblade, finishing with Ranger (or Arcane Archer 2 or Cragtop Archer) for a pretty decent bowman. Tack on Mystic Ranger if you can for 5th level spells.

[Deox]

This is kind of the character I'm currently playing in a campaign. Someone totally encompassed with taking his time traveling around experiencing life, until combat turns him into a raving haste induced crazy person.

I'm using an interesting build:
Battle Sorcerer 6 / Swiftblade 6 / Warblade 1 / Jade Phoenix Mage 6 / Warblade +1

Ends up with 7th level maneuvers and spells.
I've been using spells like death armor, fire shield, acid sheath and combining with karmic strike/robilar's gambit. With all that miss chance to boot!

[Zaq]

Isn't this addict character's natural character arc going to be to about freeing him or herself from the addiction? How can the character's personality actually grow here in a way that doesn't just destroy its abilities? Haste and all the special effects you tack onto it with Swiftblade is purely beneficial and desirable from every sense of game perspective, which feels pretty wrong as an analogy for drug addiction.

Why not have the character be addicted to actual performance-enhancing drugs with properly negative effects, and use Haste magic to wean him or herself off of the stuff? A tempo Bloodspike from Magic of Eberron lets you take damage to grant yourself a move action any time in the next hour - which you can reapply after you use it or it expires. The swiftstride alchemical capsule (which you consume as a Swift action) can grant you a couple rounds of enhanced movespeed at the cost of fatigue afterward. Others that I know of are the thickener bloodspike (weapon damage against you is reduced by 1... and is not DR), strongarm capsule (improves weapon damage and strength checks for a couple rounds) and leap capsule (enhanced Jump checks for a round), which aren't as easily related to Haste.

Not that I disagree with this post, but to take it another direction, we could say that he's weaning himself off the MAGIC part of it—remember that Swiftblades eventually get Haste as an (Ex) ability. The Haste was within him all along!