Seeking a Ghost-like template

[Willpowered One]

I'm looking for a template that makes me a ghost, and have the ability to become corporeal.
And like all undead, I'm looking for one that makes me have no Con score, and HD of D12s.

I knew the members this forum would know more than I do, so I made an account (finally) to come and ask.

Are there any templates that give these things to PCs? Also, the lower the LA the better.

Thanks in advance! :smallsmile:

[kestrel404]

Well, there are a few options depending on what your GM is willing to allow and where you want to go.

There's the Ghost savage progression (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/sp/20040117a), which you don't need to complete, which allows you to choose how much LA you're willing to take in exchange for nifty powers (when optimizing, I usually take 4 levels to get the really good stuff, but for your purposes you might want to stop at 2). That plus the Ghostly Grasp feat from Libris Mortis (or however it's spelled) will give you the ability to be incorporeal in the material plane while still allowing you to pick stuff up and use equipment.

There's also the kind-of-template from the Ghostwalk book which is like a LA+0 ghost template, but isn't really meant to be used in a general game - it's completely unbalanced against other sorts of incorporeal templates, but some GMs will allow it anyway.

Then there's always the various class features that let you become incorporeal some of the time (usually a period measured in minutes per day at most and then it's only 1/day).

Some more specifics on what you want or where you're going with this would be helpful.

[Kuulvheysoon]

There's the Telthor template in UE, but you'll have to find some way to dodge around the rather odd restrictions.

Psion Uncarnate progresses up to permanent incoporeality at tenth level.

[Willpowered One]

Well, there are a few options depending on what your GM is willing to allow and where you want to go.

There's the Ghost savage progression (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/sp/20040117a), which you don't need to complete, which allows you to choose how much LA you're willing to take in exchange for nifty powers (when optimizing, I usually take 4 levels to get the really good stuff, but for your purposes you might want to stop at 2). That plus the Ghostly Grasp feat from Libris Mortis (or however it's spelled) will give you the ability to be incorporeal in the material plane while still allowing you to pick stuff up and use equipment.

There's also the kind-of-template from the Ghostwalk book which is like a LA+0 ghost template, but isn't really meant to be used in a general game - it's completely unbalanced against other sorts of incorporeal templates, but some GMs will allow it anyway.

Then there's always the various class features that let you become incorporeal some of the time (usually a period measured in minutes per day at most and then it's only 1/day).

Some more specifics on what you want or where you're going with this would be helpful.

I'm allowed to use anything, from any 3.5 book, and some 3.0 (if it is close enough).

Ill check those out, thanks for the info!


There's the Telthor template in UE, but you'll have to find some way to dodge around the rather odd restrictions.

Psion Uncarnate progresses up to permanent incoporeality at tenth level.

What is UE? I checked the list of acronyms in the product key from wizards and I didn't see it.

[Menteith]

What is UE? I checked the list of acronyms in the product key from wizards and I didn't see it.

Unapproachable East, a 3.0 book if I remember correctly.

EDIT

Bear in mind the Ghost (Savage Progressions) template doesn't actually give you the Incorporeal Subtype, for some reason. It's reasonable to discuss with your DM if you need it to qualify for something, but make sure you clear it before hand.

[Willpowered One]

What I think on the suggestions so far:

Ghost Savage Progression:
I'd only go to level 1 if I used this. The flavor of my character is close to the flavor of this. However, as noted i do not become the incorporeal subtype, meaning I cannot take the Ghostly Grasp feat. But I still am treated as incorporeal, meaning I basically have to give my sword ghost touch.
My main issue with this is that I can't actually manifest into a corporeal form.

I've found many templates in the Ghostly walk book (p. 32) but not a LA 0 one.

Psion Incarnate:
Interesting, but i'm already locked into classes.

I will edit this post when I look at the Telthor.



Some more specifics on what you want or where you're going with this would be helpful.
Basically I am trying to find a way to be a wandering soul, but interact with the world as if I was living. Don armor, pick up items, walls actually impede my movement.

I'm trying to be vague so that I get multiple options to peel over. So far the closest might be the Ghost Savage (because of the flavor), but leveling in that makes me act as if I was incorporeal, while not giving me the benefits of being as such (ghostly grasp or whatever), and no way to become corporeal.

Thanks for all the information! Hope for more soon!

[Steward]

Pick up the Phantom template from Monster Manual 5. It lets you switch between being incorporeal and corporeal with a swift action, and you can make regular melee attacks even while you are incorporeal, in the same way as if you were corporeal (you are treated as both for the purpose of attacks at all times).

[Willpowered One]

Pick up the Phantom template from Monster Manual 5. It lets you switch between being incorporeal and corporeal with a swift action, and you can make regular melee attacks even while you are incorporeal, in the same way as if you were corporeal (you are treated as both for the purpose of attacks at all times).

Oh ya, I remember that template now.

Hmm..... It does match what I want perfectly, but the LA listed is "–"

Would I take a LA of 0, 1, or 2?

I know the answer might just be "ask your DM", but I'm curious what the savvy people here think.

Edit: The template says for Base creatures of CR 5+ the CR is raised by 2. Since my character is above Level 5, should I just have the template have a LA of 2? It seems the most fair. The more I think about it the more that seems fair (and a LA of 0 is stupid).

[KicktheCAN]

Ghostly walk book (p. 32) but not a LA 0 one.

The Ghost template is LA +0. The Level Adjust is listed in the 3.5 update for Ghostwalk.

[kestrel404]

If you're mostly doing this as a flavor thing and you're OK with being corporeal, you could take one of the 'raised dead' templates instead - not all of them require you being dead.

For example, you could be a Necropolitan (an LA +0 template from Libris Mortis which basically just gives you the Undead type) or the not-undead type from Eberron (I forget what they're called, but they're literally just good undead).

[Golden Ladybug]

Ghost Savage Progression:
I'd only go to level 1 if I used this. The flavor of my character is close to the flavor of this. However, as noted i do not become the incorporeal subtype, meaning I cannot take the Ghostly Grasp feat. But I still am treated as incorporeal, meaning I basically have to give my sword ghost touch.
My main issue with this is that I can't actually manifest into a corporeal form.

Actually, you sorta can. Ghosts are solid on the Etheral Plane, and they manifest on the Material as Incorporeal. However, if you pay for a Plane Shift spell on the Etheral Plane, and go back to the Material. This lets you remain solid on the Material Plane.

However, you can't go back and forth under your own power anymore, so its not without its drawbacks.

[Person_Man]

I know that you're looking for a template, and on that front, I've got nothing. But if you're willing to consider class abilities that grant you things that are similar to Ghost abilities:

Apparition Ribbon soulmeld bound to your Throat chakra grants you the Incorporeal subtype for Meldshaper rounds per level. Incarnate 14 or various PrC options would be the easiest way to get it, but anyone can do it at high levels with just 2 feats, or 1 feat plus magic or psionics.

Phase Cloak soulmeld bound to your Shoulder chakra grants you Etherealness whenever you move (allowing you to move through occupied squares and walls, but you revert to the material plane when you stop moving). So, Totemist 9, various PrC, or Feats/magic/psionics.

Haures vestige (Binder 12, or Binder 10 with a Feat, or various PrC options) grants you Incorporeal Movement. Similar to Phase Cloak, but with full on Incorporealness.

Chupoclops vestige (also Binder 12 et al) gives you the Ethereal Watcher ability, which allows you to be Ethereal for any amount of time as long as you don't move or attack, which is handy for setting up ambushes.

One with Shadow maneuver (Shadow Hand 8, so Swordsage 15, or a high level Swordsage multiclass or PrC build) allows you to become Incorporeal for a round. So you can basically be Incorporeal every other round.

And there's probably dozens of ways to do it with magic or psionics.

[Tr011]

Oh ya, I remember that template now.

Hmm..... It does match what I want perfectly, but the LA listed is "–"

Would I take a LA of 0, 1, or 2?

I know the answer might just be "ask your DM", but I'm curious what the savvy people here think.

Edit: The template says for Base creatures of CR 5+ the CR is raised by 2. Since my character is above Level 5, should I just have the template have a LA of 2? It seems the most fair. The more I think about it the more that seems fair (and a LA of 0 is stupid).

I personaly allowed it to my group with LA 3. LA 2 would be pretty strong for that template (assuming you get all the abilities and disregard the CR rule, but even than you just have another aspect to take care of, which is pretty easy). Just compare it to other templates and remind yourself of the Tiers of other templates when looking at them. Also check out the DMG 172 (Phantom Template would be Difficult: Strange Powers or Limitations).

[kestrel404]

Oh ya, I remember that template now.

Hmm..... It does match what I want perfectly, but the LA listed is "–"

Would I take a LA of 0, 1, or 2?

I know the answer might just be "ask your DM", but I'm curious what the savvy people here think.

Edit: The template says for Base creatures of CR 5+ the CR is raised by 2. Since my character is above Level 5, should I just have the template have a LA of 2? It seems the most fair. The more I think about it the more that seems fair (and a LA of 0 is stupid).

Oh, I just noticed that. I'd say that if you're starting out as a 1st level character (or at least lower than level 4), take it as a LA +1 template, and for level 5+ it's a LA +2 template. If you start out lower and get to level 5, your ECL does not increase due to the template (as that would get tricky) because at that point your GM has probably accounted fairly well for the special powers that incorporeality has given to you and there's no further need to adjust. The only reason it would be a higher LA for the level 5+ version is because being able to switch between corporeal and incorporeal as a swift action is pretty awesome all by itself.

[Willpowered One]

Responses in order

KicktheCAN:
Really? I looked at the 3.5 update thingy and didn't see that. I probably just missed it.

kestral404:
Necropolitan? I really missed that template in Libris Mortis. I'm assuming the raised dead templates are also hidden in that book.

Golden Ladybug:
That is very interesting actually.... Since I'd be a corporeal ghost, what would that mean? I'd get all the benefits from the ghost template other than the "incorporeal" subtype?

Person_Man:
All very interesting, and I will probably use those for another character, but I'm trying to get this one to be a corporeal ghost, not an incorporeal living being

Tr011:
I'm very happy to see this page. I never knew official rules existed for altering a monster race into a PC race. Granted, DM's word is final on certain abilities, and no real ruling is given for the LA. For what we were doing we just said the LA adjustment is equal to the CR bonus. I'm sure, having said that, someone will find a broken race/template to play as.

Kestrel404:
I was thinking something similar.


Thanks for all the responses!

[Golden Ladybug]

Well, you would get the Undead (Augmented Humanoid) Type, lose you Con score, get d12s for your HD and grab a +2 bonus to Hide, Listen, Search and Spot checks. You'll probably keep your Fly Speed of 30ft (Perfect) and regardless of that, you're native to the Material Plane, so there won't even be any dismissal shenanigans.

If you're willing to splurge on another level of Ghost, you'd also get +2 Cha and a Ghost Power. Frightful Moan lets you panic everyone within 30ft unless they make a DC (10+1/2 HD+Cha) Will Save, or you can use Telekinesis every 1d4 Rounds at CL12 (or your HD if its higher), both of which are pretty cool. Although, I think the Telekinesis is better.