Advancing Inevitable?

[Red_Dog]

So, I'll get to the point. I need to Improve 3 different types of Inevitables. Depending on how the thread goes I'll ask for all of them, but for now, a help with one would be nice.

So=>

Kolyarut
Stats here=>
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/inevitable.htm#kolyarut
Has 13 Construct HD, 5 feats & 28skill points [basically 2 max skills] w/ bonuses on disguise/sense motive/gather Info.

Now. I will re-roll his stats. So I expect Int of at least 12-14. so another skill or two.

His target is a powerful Sorc which already destroyed few Inevitables sent his way. This guy is the most recent & decided to play smarter and wait for the right time.
=================================================>
I need to re-stat his feats, and add some HD or class levels. I do not want him to use Casting classes of any kind, instead trying to capitalize on his spell-like abilities & strategy. I might make an exception for divination-based casting for him to use to track the target?

He could qualify for Justicator[Cwar](I had a nice attack+scorpion grasp+improved hogtie combo in mind) or Bloodhound but they seem not "lethal enough" heh.

I was trying to find a lass that would capitalize the most on his spell-like abilities which are rather many. However no class I could recall helped with those even from savage species. Obvious metamagic-ing spell like abilities and ability focus was 2 things I though of. Boosting his stats thru magic items will help...


But other than that... anyone got any ideas? Because I am fairly befuddled. Its a nice monster, I am just trying to find a balanced way for him to find a very powerful creature and keep tabs on it until opportunity presents itself. Locating the guy who KNOWS people are coming for him is hard, when that guy is crazy and wields sorcerer's powers.. It gets much harder

[ericgrau]

The feat quicken spell like ability will take advantage of his spell like abilities the most. Quicken hold monster and quicken invisibility (at the end of his turn) come to mind. Or quicken suggestion again to get it 6/day. Boosting charisma and ability focus could help the save DCs on those SLAs.

After that his vampiric touch and enervation ray don't seem to scale, so you might want to get him a class and equipment that provide new attack forms.

[Kuulvheysoon]

Warblade.

Iron Heart+Diamond Mind are excellent disciplines for anti-spellcasters, and since the kolyarut is going to be in melee anyways (most likely), they synergize pretty well.

[Red_Dog]

Hmmm... so after some consideration [fluff, tactical and mechanical]... I think I will go with Justiciar. This lets him interact with OTHER creatures in other manner than just simply killing them, first giving them chance to "join his cause". It still lets him be a pretty effective killing machine, BUT gives him options. It also boosts relative skills and abilities.

What do you guys think about this set up? =>

Kolyarut 13-14/Ranger 1/Justiciar 10
Favorite enemy=>arcanists

Feats[9]=>Ability Focus[Suggestion], Boost Spell-Like Ability[vile Darkness. seems VERY awesome], Skill Focus[Gather Info] Heighten Spell-like ability[suggestion], Staggering Strike[can he take it? Non-leathal strike is JUST like sneak attack], Power Attack+Improved BR+Shock Trooper, Quicken Spell-like ability[Suggestion].

If he can't take staggering strike, I suppose taking boost or heighten second time can help? Or Skill Focus[Use rope] as I found no items boosting the damn thing?O_o Or quickdraw? He will always carry adamantine chain wrapped around his left arm, so should be "free quick drawing" that lol.

Skills=> Max Gather/Sense/Survival/Use Rope. Rest not sure. Most likely Search, disguise and Bluff?

Equipment=>
+2 Binding [and the shapechanging, one to warp into mullet if needed] adamantine long sword
+X?? Banded Mail[not sure with what abilities yet? suggestions?]
+1 Ring
+4Str belt
Rod of Cancellation
Few dozen feet of adamantine chain[makeshift manacles, and other]
Gloves of Titan Grip. [any other grappling items that I am missing?]
Crystal max of "+10 to Sense motive" [lol forget the name]
Few sets of "homebrewed Manacles".
*Basically Adamantine manacles[Dungeonscape] that cast silence or Dim-Anchor or Antimagic field[focused][only ONE set of AMF though lol]

=========================================>

So what do you guys/gals think? O_o not too OP, but still dangerous? His suggestion starts at 19+abilities when he Heighten and Boosts it. He can also quicken that. His tactics is plotting and trying to recruit, sometimes unwilling help. Basically, he IS tasked w/ killing the sorc, but all the grappling and non-lethal tricks helps him recruit help, extract information and minimize casualties. All the Info gathering checks helps him stay under "magic radar" and silently pursue his target.

P.S. By the by, I re-read Justiciar... man, I wrongfully ignored that class. Its a nice class for "thug-fighters", cops and even peacemakers[crusaders and such who's solution to everything is not "pointy end goes in enemy"] as you can be lawful anything. And his abilities, BAB and skill list are really flavorful and cool IMO. And if you are Goliath you can be effective up to huge opponents, no issues. A dorge of Expansion helps be even bigger. Now I want play one as a nice change of pace! ^^

[Ranting Fool]

Staggering Strike[can he take it? Non-leathal strike is JUST like sneak attack],


As a DM you can just give any monster any feat you like even if they don't meet the requirements for that such as most small monsters have weapon finesse.

I've always liked the Inevitable's and I plan to sneak one in my campaign at some point (they've been described before in other games but never bumped into "Arrrggg a Giant Warforge came through town demanding people tell him about X"

[Ranting Fool]

Few dozen feet of adamantine chain[makeshift manacles, and other]

Few sets of "homebrewed Manacles".
*Basically Adamantine manacles[Dungeonscape] that cast silence or Dim-Anchor or Antimagic field[focused][only ONE set of AMF though lol]



I can't for the life of me remember WHICH book it's in but there IS a nice set of adamantine manacles that do an Anti Magic field type thing on the person being held.

[Red_Dog]

=>Ranting Fool

I generally try not to DM fiat TOO much ^^. Its just a personal taste thing.

However, I will give him the strike most likely, because the ability is JUST like the sneak attack heh ^^.


I can't for the life of me remember WHICH book it's in but there IS a nice set of adamantine manacles that do an Anti Magic field type thing on the person being held.
That would be awesome if someone could find those ^^. SO I don't have to homebrew too much ^^ Thx man! ^^

P.S. Some gear changes=>
+1 Warning Binding changing sword, as he has low dex, and extra +5I is nothing to sneeze at ^^.
Also, forgot +4 Charisma cloak.

Still no clue on armor...
+1 banded mail of Improved Silent moves. Assists w/ moving when invisible? Also is there a way to get silence at will or perhaps a lot per day besides having a wand? So he wouldn't be detected by listen checks? This is a bit powerful combination, but still foiled by OH so many senses [tremor, blindsight/sense, true sight, see invisible and etc.].

[ericgrau]

If you're going to focus that much on suggestion I'd blow another feat to quicken it 6/day.

Who needs use rope? Carry some sovereign glue. And maybe iron bands of binding (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/wondrousItems.htm#ironBandsofBinding). It takes a minimum of 30 strength to break those and they come with built-in dimensional anchor. They can also be hurled as a touch attack, and escaping takes longer than most combats last so you can apply glue after the fight is over. Though they're a bit pricy. Well, at least get the glue.

By the magic item creation guidelines at will silence should cost 1800x3x2=10,800 gp. Or 2000x3x2x2=24,000 gp for a continuous or use-activated effect. Move silently is still useful because when you move within 20' of someone with silence and everything goes dead silent it will usually be apparent that something is amiss, unless the region was already dead silent (not even breezes, birds, etc.). And it keeps the inevitable from hearing others. A much more powerful effect would be zone of silence (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/zoneOfSilence.htm) for 1800x11x4=79,200 gp. It has no such problems. You could also get it 1/day for 15,840 which would allow an 11 hour trek. Or 2/day for twice that. These are just guidelines so feel free to adjust based on actual power. Keep in mind at will silence could also target foes or side passages, alleviating some of the drawbacks and adding a powerful offensive application that zone of silence doesn't get.

[Ranting Fool]

Shackles of Silence, Magic Item Compendium page 184: DC 28 brake and escape check, has Silence cast on wearer at all times. If broken or slipped out of it makes an Alarm sound:smallbiggrin: (I quite like that) only costs 6,000gp so a real steal.

You would need 26 (+8) Str at least to brake out of those if you take a 20 (and that is without being watched by a large sleepless guard) a rogue could get out much easier but if your main aim is those pesky mages then it's a joy.

Remember that magic items can be made of any what ever the crafter wants really, well within reason for the item. For example a Crown of Int could be a Copper/Golden/Adamintine (though it costs more) and it's Brake check could change.

Note: These don't stop Silent spells / Sudden Silent. I'll ask my brother about the Anti Magic ones as he was the one who pointed them out.

[TuggyNE]

As a DM you can just give any monster any feat you like even if they don't meet the requirements for that such as most small monsters have weapon finesse.

More precisely, many small monsters have weapon finesse as a racial bonus feat, because they would not otherwise meet the prerequisites.

</nitpick>

[Red_Dog]

=>ericgrau

Thx for reply! ^^

Sovereign glue... Hmmm, the thing is, I'd like to also be able to set people free when I feel like it without needing solvent.
***This seems like an OP item... I mean, without the solvent, what else can one do? Wish it away seems like the only solution heh...***

The reason for use rope is Justiciar's ability. After you touch attack and confirm grapple[Inevitable has high BAB, around +5-6 str, Improved grapple and Titan's grip. VERY hard to not get grappled for people who didn't optimize. Heck even my half-dragon goliath player w/ +22 grapple will be outmatched] you as a free action hogtie them which is Use Rope[+10 for hogtie!] vs Escape artist or Str check. If I use adamantine chain instead of rope... the bond becomes VERY hard to leave. I can also use any manacles instead of chain to get silence/etc. on them.

The iron ball-"ghostbusters" style trap is expensive... He currently has 100k-ish gear on him. Its waaaaay below his WBL, but I was trying to do it on a budget, so if he is killed, he won't be grant players TOO much, as he will get in altercations with them[w/ intend to capture and "swade" them to his side].

Incidentally... what is adamantine chain break DC?O_o couldn't find it. I was going to go with 40 as manacles are 50.

On silence... yeah. I forgot about "why is wind not blowing?" details. Thx! ^^ Hmmm... we'll see on that front. Maybe a 2/day zone of silence... Sounds like a nice item.

Thx guys! ^^ Any replies are welcome as usual! Still need to choose a nice set of armor. I don't want to make it mithril or change type, as while MM doesn't mentioned it being "grafted", I am making it like that for "style points" ^^

[Ranting Fool]

More precisely, many small monsters have weapon finesse as a racial bonus feat, because they would not otherwise meet the prerequisites.

</nitpick>

Fair enough :smallbiggrin:

[Red_Dog]

Shackles of Silence, Magic Item Compendium page 184: DC 28 brake and escape check, has Silence cast on wearer at all times. If broken or slipped out of it makes an Alarm sound:smallbiggrin: (I quite like that) only costs 6,000gp so a real steal.

You would need 26 (+8) Str at least to brake out of those if you take a 20 (and that is without being watched by a large sleepless guard) a rogue could get out much easier but if your main aim is those pesky mages then it's a joy.

Remember that magic items can be made of any what ever the crafter wants really, well within reason for the item. For example a Crown of Int could be a Copper/Golden/Adamintine (though it costs more) and it's Brake check could change.

Note: These don't stop Silent spells / Sudden Silent. I'll ask my brother about the Anti Magic ones as he was the one who pointed them out.

Thx man! ^^ So minus one custom item! ^^ Adanantine Manacles are found in Dngeonscape, so a happy union ensures! ^^.

Also I found THIS=>
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/archive/index.php?t-119189.html

WotC says:
The DC to burst a single strand of rope is 23. If one is tied up, one is dealing with multiple strands of rope and not in the best position to exert leverage. Though the rope’s ability to resist breakage would be a factor if someone were trying to break bonds, the skill with which the character was bound is more important.
A quick look at the Escape Artist skill description shows that escaping from bonds requires an Escape Artist check opposing the Use Rope check from whoever tied up the prisoner, and the character that tied the bonds gets a +10 bonus.
If the prisoner just tries to break out through sheer Strength, add the break DC for rope (23) to the Use Rope check instead of +10.
If you use this method, it’s possible (though not likely) for a truly inept captor to tie bonds that have a break DC of less than 23. That’s somewhat realistic, because any knot, especially when badly tied, can weaken a rope.

Can anyone confirm this? This sounds fantastic! ^^ I always assumed making STR checks regardless of position, was Dragonball Z-ish[screaming really loud, looking constipated and breaking out] I'm still using adamantine rope, but that's besides the point ^^

[Bahamut Omega]

Since it's a monster with a listed progression, it has to advance that way. You didn't mention the sorceror's level or the means by which the other inevitables sent his way were defeated.

So advance the hit dice for it to 22. Doing this also increases the caster level of his abilities accordingly. In addition, it's spell resistance improves to 31 (generally this is tied to a monster's hit dice). By the RAW, this increases the CR of the monster to a CR 14.

As this is an advanced monster, I would look for ways to boost its power by adding special abilities and increasing the CR as opposed to adding more hit dice. I'd start with a permanent Magic Circle Against Chaos as this will prevent summoned monsters from being able to effectively interfere in the fight. Don't forget, the deflection bonus applied against ray attacks. This would probably justify a +1 increase to the CR.

Alternately, a quickened at will Banishment spell-like ability. This would probably justify a +1/2 increase to the CR.

Next, I would give it a fly speed. This kolyarut was built with a fly speed equal twice its land speed to pursue this target if need be. I would make sure this speed is at least 60' per round when armored, so you'll need to go and back calculate what the normal land speed is for that. This is probably a 1/2 CR increase.

Next I would revise the Enervation Ray so that instead of dealing 1d4 negative levels, it consistently deals 3 negative levels. This is probably worth another 1/2 CR increase.

Finally, it has the Dispel Magic, Greater as an at-will spell-like ability and casts it with a +20 bonus on the d20 roll. Targeting an opponent with this can get rid of a lot of buffs, including, but not limited to See Invisibility/True Seeing, enabling use of it's invisibility to become more viable. This addition is probably worth a +1 CR increase.

This buffed kolyarut is likely a CR 18-19. Make sure you're familiar with the targeted Dispel Magic rules as well as the rules for using Dispel Magic to counterspell, otherwise this becomes a lot less menacing. It can remove multiple buffs on a target, which is what makes targeted dispels more useful than area dispels when facing off one on one. If it can't reach its opponent, it can also negate any spell they try and cast, teleport included. Overall, I think this build is reasonably tough for a caster without being completely impossible to overcome.

[Essence_of_War]

Some obvious things for feats are to give him like, Quicken SLA, Maximize SLA etc etc to power up his SLAs and maximize his action economy.

What sort of level is the sorcerer in question, and what sort of spells/magic items does he have access to?

[ericgrau]

=>ericgrau

Thx for reply! ^^

Sovereign glue... Hmmm, the thing is, I'd like to also be able to set people free when I feel like it without needing solvent.
***This seems like an OP item... I mean, without the solvent, what else can one do? Wish it away seems like the only solution heh...***
Universal solvent costs 50 gp. Get the solvent too. But the bigger issue is its cost. The rule is to price expendibles at 5 times normal price when putting together a monster's budget. Otherwise 1 shot cheap items would be too strong for something that only fights the PCs once. So at 12,000 gp a pop it's a bit too much. Well, maybe one dose for a really important foe. There are ways around it: like destroy the chain. Then the bound person flees with dangling bits of chain glued to him. For the huge price I don't think it's OP.

I dunno what the break DC is for an adamantine chain but an adamantine door is 30 higher than an iron door. Given how crazy hard it already is to break iron chain & shackles the break DC for adamantine could be "lol no" and you should hack it with a weapon or spell instead (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/exploration.htm#hitPoints) (the wording is unclear but "normally" means hardness still applies to acid and sonic). Come to think of it you might want to give the chain a minor magical enhancement so it can't be affected by spells that easily ruin non-magical items.

[Red_Dog]

Thx for replys ^^

=>Bahamut Omega

This is a territory of "make your own monster"... While I do know its rules, I try not to use it [so far didn't need to] for 2 reasons

>Players are far less familiar with things that "come from my mind"
>every time I make an NPC I get an idea for a character for other game ^^. Sadly no other games around do far lol

But yeah, your advise is solid, I might use some of it as "wands" or custom items[one rule I do use, as I let players use it too if they want, plus they can always loot the custom items].

Also, while advancement by HD is an option... Inevitables got almost no support thruout the books. And they are smart enough to take character levels. Dragons advance by HD, but they can take "unassociated character levels" too.

=>Essence_of_War

lvl20 sorc, who has mindblank on his list. Sorc uses a lot of "blast first, than blast more" approach, though half of his list is dirty tricks [teleportation, dispells, few personal buffs and etc.]. The Inevitable has been tracking him for around 500 years. So yeah. Sorc is aware of the inevitable, but was unable to dispatch it, Inevitable usually operates by the scheme of "gather willing or not so willing allies, than set an ambush and attack". Its been done few dozen times, with little success. However, the sorc escalated his charges from imprisonment to death a while ago, and every attempt has been a bit more successful than the last.

=>ericgrau

The OP part of the glue is "clever use"... Like gluing someone's arms together and etc. Basically where the solution "break off a peace" is not an option. And since solvent is THE only thing that can break it [short of a wish], its hard to counter.

Come to think of it you might want to give the chain a minor magical enhancement so it can't be affected by spells that easily ruin non-magical items.
Hmm? Which one would that be?O_o I would definitely like to know as it sounds like a good option ^^

[Red_Dog]

SO... since thread is going kind of well ^^, and I think I do have my Kolyarut ready. If someone can find those AMF manacles it would be super ^^.
Otherwise => I would like to bring a second inevitable for "improvement". I am not sure if I put it in my campaign... But Since the campaign contains a lot of Wizards and limited wish, time stop and few other things do get thrown around. Maybe not a lot, but they do. And when things start to get dangerous I am considering of putting 1-3 of these as a "special team" on hold, waiting if a mass use of limited wish for example detected... So =>


<===========================================>
Quarut
Stats are not available from SRD as far as I know, but he is in Fiend Folio p.102.

With him.... I am at a complete loss on "what to add", as while he is powerful, I don't think he is fit for his task which is => "time/space police" essentially... A task, which is extraordinarily difficult...

My ideas are =>
>Advance HD to 24 [I don't want him "Large"] which is CR bump of 1.5... I have no clue of what character class to give him as I've said, I couldn't find one advancing spell-like abilities. Perhaps still making him large wouldn't be too bad. With HD30, his "CR=21" which isn't too bad at all. It also means 11 feats which is nice...

>Items! Take any "time re-lated item?" Amulet of second chances comes to mind. Give him "Skill knowledge[UMD]" and give him a staff? His has a charisma for it... But I don't know too many other time items[will look thru books].

>Feats... Obviously few ability focuses[temporal stasis definitely], Quicken Dim door? Obviously the broken "Boost spell-like ability" twice [6/day for ALL of his abilities, not together, all. As far as I can see anyway]. Maybe Heightened? Can you Heighten Temporal Stasis?

So yeah... making "balanced time/space police" seems bloody hard heh. = \


P.S. This is one NPC, that might be fun just to be "random encounter". As in after someone abuses some temporal/space mechanic. I have an event in mind, some one is building a large gate to Abyss? Would this warrant his appearance? Maybe finding few individuals "guilty by association"?

[ericgrau]

I couldn't find any chain specific enchants but a rope enchant would be reasonable. Like rope of climbing (3000 gp), superior rope of climbing (5500 gp), rope of entanglement (22000 gp), rope of stone (800 gp). Rope of stone is the cheapest and harder to slip out of but would have screwy fluff on a chain; rope of climbing may be better.

EVen if you bind someone's arms he can still be rescued by his allies, run under his own power, and then go to town to buy some universal solvent for 50 gp. Even if he has no clue what's stuck his allies can knock him out, cut off hands, cast regenerate. Or heck if he's nuts rip the flesh off and then heal it. It's not too useful in combat anyway since you need to hold the glued items together for 1 round to stick.

Random NPC eh? I can just imagine, the PCs do something truly extraordinary and flippant to get out of a deal they were stuck in with major plot NPC X. The frustrated DM says hrmmph, flips through his notes, finds the inevitable, <scribble> <scribble>, the adventure goes on, and then 3 days later...

[Red_Dog]

EVen if you bind someone's arms he can still be rescued by his allies, run under his own power, and then go to town to buy some universal solvent for 50 gp. Even if he has no clue what's stuck his allies can knock him out, cut off hands, cast regenerate.

Spoken like a true D&D player = P

Also, Kolyarut is definitely in the plot now[His reward to players is actually IMO clever. If players help him, he promises to take one request from them per person that deals with broken contracts and enforce it ahead of schedule ^^ I think its a clever payment method ^^]. I meant, Quarut being semi-random only coming in play when someone starts spamming limited wish or other temporal/spatual shenanigans.
***Question still stands, would a permanent "rift-like" gate to abyss be on Quarut's list of "kill if someone does X"?***

So yeah what items can Quarut possess besides amulet of second chances? Staff of Transportation seems nice, but he DOES has Dim-Door at will? I am definitely thinking SOME Staff, but I don't want to go over-board to Magi/Power territory.

So... any ideas guys/gals? ^^

[Red_Dog]

Last post didn't bump, so=> Bump due to internetz lags ONLY. ^^