Non-druidic secret languages? Method of learning secret languages?

[deuxhero]

1: Are there any non-Druidic secret languages? All I know is PF makes drow hand signs one.
2: Other than Loremaster's bonus language or dips in Druid, what methods can be used to learn these languages?

[Malimar]

Yeah, Drow Sign was the first thing that sprung to mind.

Qualith, the mind flayer written language, is "nearly impossible for nonillithids to understand or translate without years of study (DC 35 Decipher Script check)" (Lords of Madness).

Aside from the languages of exra-obscure races, I don't think I know of any other particularly secret languages.

[Morithias]

"The Lords of Nine, the Dark Eight, and most unique devils also speak an archaic form of Infernal known as Mabrahoring (High Infernal). This rarefied tongue is rarely spoken outside of the citadels of Baator. Only unique devils can learn and speak the language. Other creatures are incapable of learning it, though magic such as comprehend languages can decipher it as normal."

FC2 PG 28.

Seriously though, it's a language so secret NO PC could EVER learn it. Unless your DM is so insane to as let you play a unique devil which are among the highest ranking devils in existence.

[Emperor Tippy]

1: Are there any non-Druidic secret languages? All I know is PF makes drow hand signs one.
2: Other than Loremaster's bonus language or dips in Druid, what methods can be used to learn these languages?

Simulacrum or Ice Assassin and to create a copy of someone who knows the language and is under your absolute control, order it to teach you. Use Mind Rape on someone who knows the language, that should be enough for your DM to let you invest the points to learn it (if they don't just give you the language outright).

[JoshuaZ]

Simulacrum or Ice Assassin and to create a copy of someone who knows the language and is under your absolute control, order it to teach you. Use Mind Rape on someone who knows the language, that should be enough for your DM to let you invest the points to learn it (if they don't just give you the language outright).

Ice Assassin and Mind Rape. Are there any problems they can't solve?

[Darrin]

2: Other than Loremaster's bonus language or dips in Druid, what methods can be used to learn these languages?

Shape Soulmeld: Soulspeaker Circlet lets you understand any spoken language you choose. Open Least Chakra (Crown) lets you speak it (but not read or write).

[deuxhero]

Ice Assassin and Mind Rape. Are there any problems they can't solve?

The concussion from a DMG to the head.

[Telok]

"The Lords of Nine, the Dark Eight, and most unique devils also speak an archaic form of Infernal known as Mabrahoring (High Infernal). This rarefied tongue is rarely spoken outside of the citadels of Baator. Only unique devils can learn and speak the language. Other creatures are incapable of learning it, though magic such as comprehend languages can decipher it as normal."

FC2 PG 28.

Seriously though, it's a language so secret NO PC could EVER learn it. Unless your DM is so insane to as let you play a unique devil which are among the highest ranking devils in existence.

Mabrahoring dates back to at least 1982 when it appeared in the book "Dilvish the Damned" by Roger Zelazny. There it was the language of Hell and oaths spoken in it were supernaturally binding. Additionally there were sequences of words know as Awful Sayings that, when properly spoken, could do various nasty things on par with some of the most powerful destructive spells. In the book one Awful Saying was used to destroy a small city.

[Alleran]

Mabrahoring dates back to at least 1982 when it appeared in the book "Dilvish the Damned" by Roger Zelazny. There it was the language of Hell and oaths spoken in it were supernaturally binding. Additionally there were sequences of words know as Awful Sayings that, when properly spoken, could do various nasty things on par with some of the most powerful destructive spells. In the book one Awful Saying was used to destroy a small city.
And Ice Assassin + Mindrape should still get you access to it. It sounds a lot like the Dark Speech feat, only scaled up.

[Curmudgeon]

The Epic feat Polyglot (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/feats.htm#polyglot) lets you learn all of these: Druidic, Mabrahoring, and everything else. The usual Kobold + Dragonwrought shenanigans, and a few skill points, makes this feat accessible as soon as you can make the INT requirement.

[prufock]

Comprehend Languages and Tongues can both be made permanent.

[Cirrylius]

words known as Awful Sayings that, when properly spoken, could do various nasty things on par with some of the most powerful destructive spells.

Huh. Early Vile Speech. I did not know that.

There was a... group feat(?)... that let you communicate simple tactical concepts with hand signals a la police/swat/military forces. Damned if I can remember the 3.5 resource, though.

[Psyren]

Couldn't you also just dominate a Druid and learn it that way? They would fall of course, but it wouldn't say they violate their oaths by teaching the language, if it was impossible for them to teach the language?

I ask, because Dominate Person is much easier to cast than Mindrape.

[JadePhoenix]

The concussion from a DMG to the head.

Or a DM pointing out that "no listed price" is not the same as "costing less than 1 gp".

[The Glyphstone]

And Ice Assassin + Mindrape should still get you access to it. It sounds a lot like the Dark Speech feat, only scaled up.

To me it sounds more like ultra-evil Truespeech...and no amount of Ice Assassin+Mindraping will get a 20th level Truenamer to teach you his 23 ranks of Truespeech, or be able to take more than 11 ranks of the skill pre-Epic without gaining it as a class skill. I.E., it doesn't matter if your teacher is 100% willing when your body/mind/soul is incapable of reproducing the effect.

There are some things you just can't buy with skill points. For everything else, there's Mindraped Ice Assassins.

[Unusual Muse]

1: Are there any non-Druidic secret languages? All I know is PF makes drow hand signs one.
2: Other than Loremaster's bonus language or dips in Druid, what methods can be used to learn these languages?

Old school: Thieves' Cant! :smallsmile:

EDIT: I seem to recall Dragon Magazine publishing a brief vocabulary of TC as well... no idea what issue it's in.

[Alleran]

To me it sounds more like ultra-evil Truespeech...and no amount of Ice Assassin+Mindraping will get a 20th level Truenamer to teach you his 23 ranks of Truespeech, or be able to take more than 11 ranks of the skill pre-Epic without gaining it as a class skill.
Fine, just be an Illithid Savant and eat the brain of a Truenamer (or several Truenamers), then. Om nom nom, and you have your skill ranks.

It still does sound similar to Dark Speech to me, though. Except where Dark Speech is schoolyard bullying, Awful Sayings are setting off a thermonuclear warhead in the middle of the swing set.

[Red_Dog]

Or a DM pointing out that "no listed price" is not the same as "costing less than 1 gp".

I completely agree, HOWEVER =>

It seems that a scroll of Ice Assassin is used to fix any and all issues. The reason for it is when its "in scroll form", a creator already got everything provided so this circumvents the "no you can't Eschew Materials a piece of Bahamut".

The scroll of Ice Assassin can't be "universal" when purchased or wished for[more common method of acquisition]. It has to be for a single creature as per the "no you can't Eschew Materials a piece of Bahamut".

DM can deal with purchasing of such thing by saying it doesn't yet exists in the multiverse. Wishing for one is a second option. But it seems that =>

>Create a nonmagical item of up to 25,000 gp in value.

>Create a magic item, or add to the powers of an existing magic item.

If this is read as "limit of magic item is 25k". Than, no Assassin scroll wishing is a bust. Ice Assassin costs significantly more 25k[diamonds needed alone cost 20k] than As a DM, I WILL twist your wish so that you'll end up in presence of a God who made Ice Assassin of Bahamut, as I am allowed to.

If however, second line mean no limit on the cost... Than, well there is really NO answer to that = ]

P.S. Circumventing "piece of Bahamut clause" could be done thru wish as its a mundane component. But at that level, you are casting lvl9 spells, who who cares about the original topic heh ^^


Spoiler, as not to de-rail this too much w/ D&D magic mechanics ^^

Otherwise, getting secret language to me is best accomplished=>
>Via translator if you need to translate something. Will probably run you cheaper and keep you DM's mind a piece as you wont be using equivalent of thermonuclear bomb to heat your coffee [using Ice Assassin to Learn druidic is pretty much an accurate analogy]
>Via telepathy if you lack communication[say, angry natives shout in tongues you don't understand]
>Via a DM quest to acquire trust of the creatures who's trust you are getting by speaking their language[one of the common use of other languages is to "blend in"].
>Taking a feat in Races of Destiny[Smatterings only need Int13] to learn basics of a language. VERY useful is SOME situations. Example => fighting drow w/ high will save[so they block read thoughts]. You know "few gestures" of there sign language so you know what "kind" of tactics they are using. Yes, it takes a feat, but its nice, and DM won't chuck things at you = ]

Overall unless campaign is language centered, there are plenty of ways to avoid using cosmic level magic to solve simple issues like translating a document/puzzle/wall carving. ^^

[Curmudgeon]

Old school: Thieves' Cant! :smallsmile:

EDIT: I seem to recall Dragon Magazine publishing a brief vocabulary of TC as well... no idea what issue it's in.
"Thieves' Cant: A Primer For the Language of Larceny" in Dragon #66, page 35. DragonDex (http://www.aeolia.net/dragondex/articles-subject.html) is a helpful resource.

[Unusual Muse]

"Thieves' Cant: A Primer For the Language of Larceny" in Dragon #66, page 35. DragonDex (http://www.aeolia.net/dragondex/articles-subject.html) is a helpful resource.

Wow... first time I've seen that! Thanks, Curmudgeon.

[Skaven]

In the Belgariad books there is the 'Drasnian secret language' that is entirely based around finger movements. Would work as a cool thieves cant type thing.