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ngilop
2012-04-19, 10:13 PM
Hey everybody, just got to thinking that anybody who plays a commoner form 1st to 20th level should really be rewarded somehow with soem cool stuff, after all you basically are the chosen one if you manage to survive all 20 levels as a commoner. but I know that most players dislike starting at levels below 5 ( except for the E6 peoples) so in that case going to 20 as a commoner really isn't that big of a woop as i feel the first 5 levels are indeed the most dangerous, even more so for a simple commoner.


Commoner
{table=head]Level|BAB|Fort|Ref|Will|Special

1st|+0|+0|+0|+0|

2nd|+1|+0|+0|+0|

3rd|+1|+1|+1|+1|

4th|+2|+1|+1|+1|

5th|+2|+1|+1|+1|

6th|+3|+2|+2|+2|

7th|+3|+2|+2|+2|

8th|+4|+2|+2|+2|

9th|+4|+3|+3|+3|

10th|+5|+3|+3|+3|

11th|+5|+3|+3|+3|

12th|+6/+1|+4|+4|+4|

13th|+6/+1|+4|+4|+4|

14th|+7/+2|+4|+4|+4|

15th|+7/+2|+5|+5|+5|

16th|+8/+3|+5|+5|+5|

17th|+8/+3|+5|+5|+5|

18th|+9/+4|+6|+6|+6|

19th|+9/+4|+6|+6|+6|

20th|+10/+5|+6|+6|+6|Paragon of Mortal-kin

[/table]
Alignment: Any
Hit Die: 1d6

Class Skills:
Class Skills: The commoner’s class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Climb (Str), Craft (Int), Handle Animal (Cha), Jump (Str), Listen (Wis), Profession (Wis), Ride (Dex), Spot (Wis), Swim (Str), and Use Rope (Dex).
Skill Points at 1st Level: (2 + Int modifier) × 4
Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 2 + Int modifier
Weapon and Armor Proficiency
The commoner is proficient with one simple weapon. He is not proficient with any other weapons, nor is he proficient with any type of armor or shields.


Class Features
Paragon of Mortal-kin {Ex}: A commoner who has survived the horrors and near-death experinces that accompany a rise to this level gains several bonuses. These bonuses are as follows
+4 Bonus to all Ability Scores
50 Bonus skills points as well as 4 new Class skills as chosen by the player
+8 bonus to AC
+6 bonus to all saves
+10 bonus to Attacks
+12 bonus to all weapon and unarmed damage rolls
Fast Healing 8
Regeneration 1/Evil
Damage Reduction 15/-
SPell Resistance equal to 5+ Total Hit die + Wis mod + Con Mod against spells of a harmful or detrimental effect
Fire, Cold, Electrical Reistance: 50
Acid, Sonic, Force Resistance: 30
Operates as if under the effects of a freedom of movement, true seeing, mind blank ( only against spells of a harmful or detrimental effect), Favored of the Martyr
2 Bonus feats
Immunity to (Death) effects and energy drain
Evasion ( as the rogue ability)

in addition he may use the following spell like abilites three times per day at 10th caster level, Haste, Greater Heroism, Magic Circle against Evil,

NeoSeraphi
2012-04-19, 10:22 PM
Generally it's a bad idea to give a class Regeneration/Evil or a magic circle against evil if your character doesn't have to be good. For example, a Lawful Evil commoner should not project a magic circle against evil. You should allow the commoner to choose an opposing aspect of his or her alignment and base the abilities off that (and if the commoner is neutral, he can choose one alignment).

Also, proficiency with armor and weapons would be a nice mundane addition to the Paragon of Mortal-Kin ability.

ngilop
2012-04-19, 10:26 PM
Well teh whle alignment thing I guess is just the way that ive alwasy seen the game, much like the founders its supposed to be good vs evil. besdies what evil person would be a commoner?

maybe I should string along a new ability called 'Mundane leaner" or some such where he can learn a new weapon/armor/shield then eveutlaly more {ex} class skills?

Yitzi
2012-04-19, 10:59 PM
It doesn't really make sense for a commoner to suddenly get huge amounts of power. I'd say a better idea might be to say that each commoner level after 4th counts only half when calculating ECL, and you get 2 each time you level. Thus, if you play a commoner until ECL 20, you're getting 36 levels, with all that that implies (including access to epic feats starting at ECL 13, and close to complete immunity to anything restricted by hit dice.)

Tarvon000
2012-04-19, 11:40 PM
It doesn't really make sense for a commoner to suddenly get huge amounts of power. I'd say a better idea might be to say that each commoner level after 4th counts only half when calculating ECL, and you get 2 each time you level. Thus, if you play a commoner until ECL 20, you're getting 36 levels, with all that that implies (including access to epic feats starting at ECL 13, and close to complete immunity to anything restricted by hit dice.)

Why restrict that rule to after 4th level? All commoner levels should count as 1/2 level. That way commoner PCs won't be completely eclipsed by all other characters until levels most campaigns don't even reach.

Steward
2012-04-20, 12:22 AM
Well teh whle alignment thing I guess is just the way that ive always seen the game, much like the founders its supposed to be good vs evil. besdies what evil person would be a commoner?


That's a valid design choice! The thing is, though, you want to specify that in the mechanic. Kind of like how in the Paladin base class it actually specifies that the character must be Lawful Good to take levels in it. If you want commoners to be Good, you should say it in the class description just so people know that, since the way you have it written, you could have an Evil commoner projecting a magic circle against evil, which sounds like a nightmare to adjudicate.

Phosphate
2012-04-20, 01:40 AM
It doesn't really make sense for a commoner to suddenly get huge amounts of power. I'd say a better idea might be to say that each commoner level after 4th counts only half when calculating ECL, and you get 2 each time you level. Thus, if you play a commoner until ECL 20, you're getting 36 levels, with all that that implies (including access to epic feats starting at ECL 13, and close to complete immunity to anything restricted by hit dice.)

Why should a commoner be better than a fighter, when logically all classes are commoners that received training?

I say reduce their XP needed to level by only 33%

Ashtagon
2012-04-20, 01:46 AM
Commoners (and the other NPC classes) are called NPC classes for a reason. They don't need to be balanced with PC classes. They are there to provide a quick-and-dirty means for a DM to rapidly create throwaway NPCs on the fly.

This class is trying to fix something that isn't broken.

Yitzi
2012-04-20, 09:04 AM
Why restrict that rule to after 4th level?

Because until good class features kick in, double levels could be too powerful.


Why should a commoner be better than a fighter, when logically all classes are commoners that received training?

I say reduce their XP needed to level by only 33%

You'd also have to reduce ECL similarly, but you make sense.

Tarvon000
2012-04-20, 11:28 AM
Why should a commoner be better than a fighter, when logically all classes are commoners that received training?

The commoner is still worse than the fighter, it just has twice as many levels. A commoner's lack of training is what halves his ECL, allowing him to gain twice as many levels.


Commoners (and the other NPC classes) are called NPC classes for a reason. They don't need to be balanced with PC classes. They are there to provide a quick-and-dirty means for a DM to rapidly create throwaway NPCs on the fly.

And yet people still want to play them. Monsters weren't intended for PC use either, but people enjoy playing them too, despite the absolutely horrible level adjustment rules.


Because until good class features kick in, double levels could be too powerful.

Not really. 2d4 + 2*(Con) hp/level, good BAB without 3rd and 4th iterative attacks, good saves, proficiency with ONE simple weapon, twice as many feats and ability score increases, +1 to all skills with max ranks/level and nothing else is not game-breaking. Ordinary levels of commoner, on the other hand, are worse than anything else in the game.

Ashtagon
2012-04-20, 11:36 AM
And yet people still want to play them. Monsters weren't intended for PC use either, but people enjoy playing them too, despite the absolutely horrible level adjustment rules.

And if people enjoy playing commoners despite their glaring weaknesses? Are you sure? Perhaps they enjoy playing commoners because of their glaring weaknesses.

Phosphate
2012-04-20, 12:43 PM
Not really. 2d4 + 2*(Con) hp/level, good BAB without 3rd and 4th iterative attacks, good saves, proficiency with ONE simple weapon, twice as many feats and ability score increases, +1 to all skills with max ranks/level and nothing else is not game-breaking. Ordinary levels of commoner, on the other hand, are worse than anything else in the game.

Precisely my point (the bolded). A class that gives 2 feats per 3 levels and an ability increase every 2 levels is Tier 4 minimum.

I'm not saying Tier 4 is much. I actually think most Tier 4s are underpowered. BUT this is my issue: the fighter is still worse than this commoner, and that shouldn't happen.

Yitzi
2012-04-20, 01:48 PM
Not really. 2d4 + 2*(Con) hp/level, good BAB without 3rd and 4th iterative attacks, good saves, proficiency with ONE simple weapon, twice as many feats and ability score increases, +1 to all skills with max ranks/level and nothing else is not game-breaking.

I suppose that makes sense. So in that case, it's simply 2 per ECL.