Seeking Advice for new Feat

[inexorabletruth]

Ok... so I'm a dabbler in the 4E world and have finally brought my Lvl 1 Shifter Ranger all the way to Lvl 4. So I get a new feat! :smallbiggrin:

Problem is... I don't know what to do with him. It seems that Rangers are a bit more of a one-trick-pony than they already were in 3.5, so I've given him all I really want to give him. I compiled a list of Feats that I know of and still like, and I'm humming and hawing over which one to pick. I thought I'd ask for your thoughts.

Quick Note on Character Build:
Lvl 3 Stats and Feats:
Ability Scores-
STR 11
CON 12
DEX 19
INT 9
WIS 15
CHA 9
(We rolled our stats)

HP: 34 :smallfrown:

Trained Skills-
Acrobatics
Dungeoneering
Nature
Perception
Stealth

Zazz-
+1 Flameburst Bow Lvl 3 :smallyuk: (planning to sell this ASAP)
+1 Cloak of Distortion Lvl 4
Gloves of Agility Lvl 5
Hide Armor
Lethal Hunter
Quick Draw
Defensive Mobility
Prime Shot
Hunter's Quarry
Nimble Strike
Twin Strike
Fox's Cunning
Razorclaw Shifting
Crucial Advice
Thundertusk Boar Strike
Hunter's Bear Trap

tl;dr... He's basically a ranged Twin Strike, Shift, Stealth (rinse, lather, repeat) until everything is dead kind of character.

The build is solid, if a little boring. I've only been bloodied twice, and one time I did on purpose because I wanted to switch into Razorclaw mode. Most battles I don't suffer a single HP of damage and yet still play a big part in minion control or boss slaying as the party needs. So now, I just want to make him what he is... just more so.

Here's what I've found:
PHB I

Alertness (to try my hand at advanced scout rather than rear defense)
Escape Artist (to boost my acrobatics and give him more dynamic options for combat RP)
Improved Initiative (cause I want to go first. :smallmad:)
Skill Focus (Probably Perception or Stealth)
Weapon Focus (Bow... obviously)


PHB II

Distant Advantage (very tempted, since two of our main force are melee and almost always work toward flanking positions)
Weapon Expertise (to Bow... reducing the amount of times I miss would be nice)
Wild Senses (for advanced scouting, and sweet Init boost.


PHB III

Lucky Start: (Great if I can roll score high on initiative... what does my d20 have against me?)
Steady Feet: (A lot of my acrobatin' was foiled by terrain last session.)
Unarmored Agility: (Who needs Hide armor? If I can ever figure out how much Starleaf Cloth armor costs, I can up my AC without suffering check penalties. :smallcool:)
Versatile Expertise: (I do not understand this feat... looks about the same as Weapon Expertise. Is it so you can make the two stack? :smallconfused:)


What do you guys think? Any advice on what I should take? Know of a better feat that I'm not aware of?

[Badgerish]

The various expertise feats do not stack as they all give 'feat' bonuses.
The best expertise feat for you is "Bow Expertise" from the essentials books, +tohit and +damage if the enemy is not adjacent to another creature.
If you can't get that, Weapon Expertise (Bow) is a boring but effective feat.

Versatile Expertise is for characters who use a Weapon and an Implement, but are generally superseded by newer feats.

Masterwork light armour (starleaf cloth in this case) is free, but only with armours that have a high enough enhancement bonus. Masterwork heavy armour starts at +2, Masterwork light armour starts at +3.

I'm away from books, so I have no new suggestions. Have you looked into a multiclass feat? They are generally very good but you can only take one.

[Musco]

Rangers ARE a two-trick pony (there are two styles, after all...), but that doesn't mean you can't have your fun Legolassing your way through the battlefield, dropping minions with a single arrow and such. Basically, get anything and everything that allows two attacks, specially against different targets (Split the Tree is particularly very nice, for instance).

As for feats, if you're an archer, quickdraw is "kind" of wasted on you, since you can simply carry your bow on hand (it's more of a melee Ranger, "I run ahead quick-drawing throwing axes and using prime shot to dish out punishment from out of melee range, then draw my swords and wait for the next turn" kind of thing), I'd retrain it for Weapon Expertise (bow) (like it has been said, assuming essentials are out, like in my campaign), and I'd probably get Greatbow proficiency (Greatbows appear in Adventurer's Vault, they are basically a Longbow with bigger range and dealing more damage).

[inexorabletruth]

The Quick Draw was necessary Feat Tax for RP. I built this guy to flip and swing where others would have to climb and jump.

Since my STR is only meh, but my DEX is spectacular, I've been able to get away with Acrobatics checks where everyone else has to use Athletics checks. But the DM rules that I can't carry my bow in my hand while playing Assassin's Creed on his battle grid without taking huge penalties to my Acrobatics check. Fair enough.

I don't have any essentials book, but for level 4, the DM has graciously offered to build our character sheets on his character builder that he got for subscribing to the WotC whosey-whatsit, so we may have access to those feats through that. I don't know.

My current selection is small. Like I said, I'm a dabbler still:
DMG 1 & 2
MM 1 - 3
Adv Vault 1 & 2
Arcane Power
FR Player's Guide
Divine Power
Draconomincon 1 & 2
Heroes of the Fallen Lands
Heroes of FK
Rules Compendium
PHB 1 - 3

Dragon Mag- #380 and 2009 Annual (hand me downs from a friend, so I don't get regular subscriptions)

As for greatbow, I just took a look at that... very cool. :smallcool: I like the cut of your jib, sailor. I'll take that when I head into town and take the feat if I can't get Bow Expertise. Of course, Bow Expertise would compliment the Greatbow as well, right? It's time for me to do some shopping when I head back into town.

[Kurald Galain]

My current selection is small. Like I said, I'm a dabbler still:

How's that? You've listed about 80% of all rulebooks ever printed for 4E.

[inexorabletruth]

:smallconfused: Really?

I guess I'm just used to 3.5's massive library of books. 3.5 can be a demanding mistress.

[Musco]

Well, if you're a shooter, you don't even need to acrobatics your way around the battlefield that much, since Combat Advantage does not come easily for you, so I say ditch it anyway. If you're in a situation where you actually DO need to use acrobatics, then simply put up with it and stash the bow as required.

Also, some acrobatic needs (for when you're cornered with your bow and start taking melee hits) can be mitigated with a well-placed 2nd level utility power, like Yield Ground (PHB1), which allows you to "acrobatics" your ass out of there for free pronto, no questions asked (for a future retraining, though, as for right now retraining Quick Draw into Expertise+Greatbow is good enough for not having to worry too much about the melee getting close to you - you ARE shooting at ridiculous distance now anyway, you can pepper them with arrows way before they're within range to strike you, not counting the possibility to simply move back and keep them at bay).

PS: Not to mention that, as a 4th-level feat, that basically means you'll pick up a Greatbow and start shooting it for +3 to hit right away (1 from Expertise, 1 from 1/2 level, 1 from Dexterity going up to 20). That's just too good to pass up.

[inexorabletruth]

I know and you're right. It's always a wasted part of my build, but it was the only real fun I have during battles. Our battle formation is:

Beef sticks in the front, Heal-bot and Bard in the back, me skipping along the flanks, leaping from tree to tree, Naruto-style, while keeping an eye out for danger since my Perception is so high.

In battles however, since I'm the glass cannon, they all want me to stay in back and make pot shots at the mini-bosses while they charge in and have all the fun. So... while bored with yet another one sided victory, I started bouncing around the battle-field like I was in The Matrix and still dealing damage while still not getting hurt. It was risky, but it at least made the encounters fun.

Even so, your logic is undeniable. :smallfrown: Perhaps retraining Quick Draw is a good idea.

[Augmental]

I know and you're right. It's always a wasted part of my build, but it was the only real fun I have during battles. Our battle formation is:

Beef sticks in the front, Heal-bot and Bard in the back, me skipping along the flanks, leaping from tree to tree, Naruto-style, while keeping an eye out for danger since my Perception is so high.

In battles however, since I'm the glass cannon, they all want me to stay in back and make pot shots at the mini-bosses while they charge in and have all the fun. So... while bored with yet another one sided victory, I started bouncing around the battle-field like I was in The Matrix and still dealing damage while still not getting hurt. It was risky, but it at least made the encounters fun.

Even so, your logic is undeniable. :smallfrown: Perhaps retraining Quick Draw is a good idea.

You said you've only ever been bloodied twice in the entire campaign, right? If you're doing well enough while using a strategy that you have fun with, I'd say to keep doing that instead of using a strategy you find boring.

[inexorabletruth]

Thanks, Augmental.

We just switched DM's for the campaign (we're all tagging out when a DM gets bored and wants to be a PC), so I'm asking him what pro's and con's he wants to give my character for Acrobating across the play field. The last DM didn't offer much, but this one seems to be considering the options more.

I'm hoping for:
If I successfully pull off an acrobatic check I gain combat advantage. If not, I fall prone in my efforts, and will either have to burn another move action to stand back up, or attack while prone. That will up the risk for using acrobatics, but still give it, and quick draw, some use in game. Otherwise, idk, maybe I'll keep quick draw and acrobat for the heck of it, maybe I'll move to optimize. His only real use is in battle, after all.

I admit, I kind of messed up when I made him a shy and socially awkward character. With low CHA and low INT, he's not much fun in RP heavy sessions.

[noth0621]

The various expertise feats do not stack as they all give 'feat' bonuses.
The best expertise feat for you is "Bow Expertise" from the essentials books, +tohit and +damage if the enemy is not adjacent to another creature.
If you can't get that, Weapon Expertise (Bow) is a boring but effective feat.

Versatile Expertise is for characters who use a Weapon and an Implement, but are generally superseded by newer feats.

Masterwork light armour (starleaf cloth in this case) is free, but only with armours that have a high enough enhancement bonus. Masterwork heavy armour starts at +2, Masterwork light armour starts at +3.

I'm away from books, so I have no new suggestions. Have you looked into a multiclass feat? They are generally very good but you can only take one.

Actually Implement Expertise is specifically "untyped" so its bonus stacks with others (though remember that if others are "typed" they do not stack with other bonuses of the same "type", simply take the largest bonus and ignore the rest).

[allonym]

Actually Implement Expertise is specifically "untyped" so its bonus stacks with others (though remember that if others are "typed" they do not stack with other bonuses of the same "type", simply take the largest bonus and ignore the rest).

Not only is this completely untrue (all expertise feats grant Feat Bonuses to hit; Weapon and Implement Expertise were errata'd to this effect a long time ago), but the last post before yours in this thread was almost two years ago.

The errata to the Expertise feats predates this thread, incidentally.

[masteraleph]

Actually Implement Expertise is specifically "untyped" so its bonus stacks with others (though remember that if others are "typed" they do not stack with other bonuses of the same "type", simply take the largest bonus and ignore the rest).

Implement Expertise is a Feat bonus (changed in the December 2011 updates).